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I am trying to untangle my Hatton ancestors.

They start with Jane HATTON born abt 1821. Jane married James GRIFFITHS in 1845.

Jane's mother was Sarah HATTON born abt 1780 (age determined from census information). There is also a brother for Jane, called James HATTON born abt 1824. Jane HATTON's marriage certificate does not name a father. Her mother, Sarah, declares herself to be a widow on both 1841 and 1851 census.

So far, parish records do not show a marriage for Sarah HATTON nor a burial for a possible husband. There are records of burials of children for a Richard HATTON and wife Sarah but I believe Richard to be Sarah's brother.

There is a Richard HATTON still alive and married to a Sarah on 1851 census. Also, this Richad and Sarah had a daughter called Caroline HATTON. Caroline later married David Lloyd in 1843 and appeared as one of the witnesses on Jane HATTON's marriage certificate as Caroline Lloyd. I believe Jane HATTON and Caroline HATTON to be cousins.

From parish records it looks as though Sarah HATTON could be the daughter of Thomas HATTON and Mary NELMES. Thomas and Mary had 10 children, including a Sarah HATTON bap 30 June 1782 and a Richard HATTON bap 14 December 1777.

I think Sarah may have had 5 illegitimate children. I think Jane and James were illegitimate. There is a birth of Sarah HATTON in 1810 with mother Sarah HATTON. There is also a burial 14 May 1810 for a Sarah HATTON, child. Two other parish record entries detail burials of illegitimate children for a Sarah HATTON in 1814 and 1827.

If my theory is correct and Sarah is the daughter of Thomas HATTON and Mary NELMES then two of Sarah's sisters also possibly had illegitimate children. Mary HATTON bap 1786 with illegitimate son Cornelius HATTON bap 1808 and Elizabeth HATTON bap 1779 with illegitimate son, William bap 1798.

I would very much like to find details of the birth of Jane HATTON and JAMES HATTON to confirm whether there is in fact a father.

This is my theory on Jane HATTON's ancestors so far. Does anyone have any information to add to it or connect in any way?

Jenny

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Hi Jenny
I have Sarah Hatton born 7 Nov 1779 spouse uknown with a daughter Jane.
Her parents were Robert Bart Hatton born 27 may 1744 married 3 june 1764 St Johns to Ankerett Baldwin born 4 sep 1743.
Children were
Betty> 6 july 1776
Anne 30 may 1767
Robert 2 dec 1770
Annah 7 nov 1773
Thomas
Sarah> 7 nov 1779 my 1st cousin 5 times removed.

I Hope this helps

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Hi Den,

Many thanks for your reply, I am very interested in your Sarah although she does seem to have muddied the waters even further as there now looks to be two possible candidates for my Sarah HATTON. I would like to try and eliminate one of them. The one I had already has been leading me a merry dance, I don't think I can cope with two!!

According to census information my Sarah and her children Jane and James HATTON were born Ruardean. Sarah's daughter Jane, was born 1821, age calculated from census and age on marriage certificate.

Does this match with your Sarah's daughter, Jane?

Did your Sarah also have a son called James abt 1824?

The reasons for assuming that my Sarah HATTON and the Richard HATTON in my original posting were brother and sister is down to several things.

Sarah's age on the census coincide with the baptism of Sarah HATTON IN 1782 born to Thomas and Mary HATTON. Sarah gives age 60 in 1841 and 70 in 1851.

Richard HATTON's age on the census coincides with a Richard HATTON baptised 1777 to the same couple.

Richard HATTON had a daughter, Caroline HATTON, (information taken from census) who married David Lloyd and there is a Caroline Lloyd who is a witness on Jane HATTON's marriage certificate.

There is also a burial for Sarah HATTON age 69 in Ruardean on 14 June 1851.

Do you have any other information on your Sarah that could determine which Sarah is mine??

A very confused Jenny

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Hi Jenny
Sorry unable to help further.
I have passed on all I have.
My interest is in the name Edy / Eddy, Hatton happens to come in as previously mentioned. There are other Hattons but not the ones you mention, they all originate from Ruardean.
CFN.

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Hi Jenny,

Following up my cousin Den posting.

RobertH & Ankerett refered to by Den is a brother of my direct ancester PhillipH1746 & Jane Eddy. As Den stated we have SarahH with her children JamesH and JaneH(Griffiths) connected to RobertH & Ankerett although this may be incorrect Sarah. Sounds like you are a decendant of this Sarah ??

IGI batch C025811 has a SarahH bapt 1779 d/o RichardH & Ankarett, and also a SarahH bapt 1782 d/o ThomasH & Mary (Nelmes). The 1841C & 1851C have a SarahH with children JamesH & Jane, but age by C not conclusive. Both C's say widow, but this may have been a convenience, or if true could be neither of these Sarah's as she would be a wife of a Hatton. Only potential I see is a SarahH nee Nelmes who died in 1824 at age 40, obviously not on 1841C.

With reference to SarahH1782 d/o Thomas and Mary Nelmes, married in 1775. As you I have IGI list of 10 children including MaryH1782 & her son CorneliusH1808. I am unable to trace Thomas further back, but is likely ThomasHatton1739 s/o ThomasH & Elizabeth, but unable to find the father Thomas in the Hattons of Ruardean otherwise connected. The next entry in PR's to Thomas is JamesH1739 s/o RobertH & Elizabeth, brother of above RichardH/Ankarett.

Of the Hattons borne in 1640's my branch and another branch are only ones that I have found with "todays world" Hatton decendants. I believe the above Thomas branch is connected somehow, but have been unsuccesful doing so - incidently I have regular contact with one of Cornelius's decendants.

We clearly need further discussion on the family overall.

Jim

5562 views

Hello Jim,

Thanks for your reply.

Not sure I can work out which is my Sarah!

Thinking out loud here.....

Looking at ages if we take the census as being correct then Sarah with parents Robert Hatton and Ankarett is the most likely candidate as her age on census most closely matches with her baptism date of 1779 ie 60 in 1841 and 70 in 1851.

I wonder if both Sarah's were having illegitimate children, there are possibly 5 born to a Sarah Hatton. I thought this seemed quite a lot for one person so perhaps both Sarah's were mothers.

Again, taking age at face value, the burial of a Sarah Hatton, age 69 in 1851 is probably the Sarah Hatton with parents Thomas and Mary born 1782.

I had though the fact that Caroline Lloyd (nee Hatton) daughter of Richard Hatton and Sarah was a witness on Jane Hatton's marriage certificate probably meant that Richard and Sarah were brother and sister, parents Thomas and Mary.

I suppose until I know which Sarah is the mother of Jane Hatton I am stuck.

Mmmm... I used to be uncertain .....but now I am not so sure!!

Jenny

5594 views

Hi Jenny,

You refered to Sarah's 5 children - I see possibility of those below in 1841C - are these the ones you refer to? Are there others? Possibly others b. after 1841.

Of course the Sarah in 1841C below is a wife, but not the Sarah with James & Jane also on different 1841C page. In other words she's not in two places at same time.

So if this Caroline witness to Janes weddin to Griffiths it suggests close relarionship, and as I refered to in last email, while connection not proven, their likely related.

1841C Librook or Sidbrook, Extra Parochal of St. Briavels
Richard Hatton 60
Sarah Hatton 45
Caroline Hatton 15
Richard Hatton 15
John Hatton 13
Joseph Hatton 5

ages rounded to nearest 5 yrs, thus Sarah in 1893 to 1899 range, with +/- C accuracy, about right. I agree she likely the 1851 burial.

All in all I'm convinced with an * (unproven) that Jane's mother Sarah is daug. of Robert/Ankarett.

On friday I'm away for 10 days but would like to explore further. I can share the Family Chart from 1600's and what I know of Sarah's decendants. My Gedcom is about 1000 names, too large to put on this web site. You have my address.

Just as I was about to send this posting I saw Mike Gwilliams posting. Mike is related to the other main branch of the Hatton family decending from brothers in the 1600's (a * connection in there). He has been a great source of information for me and others. I didn't know the PENN thing though.

Ciao, Jim

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Re my last posting.

Correct dates of Sarah after the 1841C data to 1793 to 1799.

Jim

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Hi Jim,

There are definitely too many Sarah HATTONS.

1)There is Sarah bap 1799 born to Robert Hatton and Ankarett.
2) There is Sarah bap 1782 born to Thomas Hatton and Mary.
3) There is Sarah married to Richard Hatton.

You believe Sarah (No.1) to be Jane Hatton's mother.

I had Sarah (No 2) originally as my Sarah.

Richard Hatton born 1777 was Sarah (No. 2's) brother and he married Sarah (No.3). It is this Richard and Sarah (No.3) who are the parents of Caroline Hatton (later Lloyd) witness at marriage of Jane Hatton and James Griffiths in 1845. This Richard and Sarah are the family on your 1841 census. I thought Jane Hatton and Caroline Hatton were cousins. This is another reason I believed Sarah (no.2) to be the mother of Jane.

I think it is Sarah (No 2) who is buried 14 June 1851 age 69.

The 5 illegitimate children I refer to are as follows:

Jane Hatton b 1821 (no father mentioned on marriage cert)
James Hatton b 1824 (brother of the above)

From the IGI - Sarah Hatton bap 11 Feb 1810, mother Sarah Hatton, there is a burial a short time later on 14 May 1810, Sarah Hatton child

From parish records:
Burial of John Hatton age 2 on 22 Dec 1814 illeg/bastard/natural son of Sarah
Burial of Richard Hatton age 7 29 April 1827 illeg/bastard/natural son of Sarah Hatton.

I have so far not been able to find a baptism for Jane or James. Jane Hatton was married in a Baptist church so maybe we should look at their records?

Hope this clears up some of the confusion.

Jenny

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Cornelius Hatton is a perfect DNA match with Hatton males in Ireland who claim to be from England and given a land grant. We shall see, however the DNA match is quite important and may change a few things.

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I have the following entries in my database:
Sarah HATTON baptised 7 November 1779 at Ruardean. Parents Robert HATTON and Ankrett BALDWIN who married 3 June 1764 at Ruardean Parish Church. Witnesses: Sophia Meare? and Joseph Harper (Parish Clerk).
Robert and Ankrett had the following children in addition to Sarah:
Betty baptised 6 July 1766
Ann baptised 30 May 1767
Robert baptised 2 December 1770
Anna baptised 7 November 1773
Thomas baptised 20 October 1776

Ankrett was buried at Ruardean on 17 April 1784

I have only one subsequent entry for this family:
1 April 1798 William HATTON baptised at Ruardean. Base son of Betty
William was buried in 11 April 1798.

--
Sarah HATTON baptised 30 June 1782 at Ruardean. Parents Thomas HATTON and Mary ?
I have 9 siblings for Sarah as follows:
Thomas baptised 12 November 1775
John baptised 26 January 1777
Richard baptised 14 December 1777
Elizabeth baptised 30 June 1779
John baptised 18 April 1781 Buried 16 August 1781
Ann baptised 1 August 1784
Mary baptised 2 April 1786
William baptised 27 July 1788
Philip baptised 25 March 1792

Richard married a Sarah ? and to my knowledge had 8 children. Richard is described as a Chelsea Pensioner in the 1851 Census and a Butcher in 1827 at time of baptism of daughter Mary.

I have the following entries in my records that are perhaps the most relevant to your search.
29 April 1827 Richard HATTON natural son of Sarah buried at Ruardean. Age 7
16 May 1813 John HATTON baptised at Ruardean. Mother Sarah HATTON. Reputed father John PENN, Butcher
The following entry is from the 1851 Census:

1976 0338 013 Ruardean PENN John HD M 60 Butcher GLS Ruardean
1976 0338 013 Ruardean PENN Susan WI M 53 - GLS Ruardean
1976 0338 013 Ruardean PENN James SO U 21 Collier GLS Ruardean
1976 0338 013 Ruardean PENN Joseph SO U 20 Collier GLS Ruardean
1976 0338 013 Ruardean PENN Thomas SO U 18 Collier GLS Ruardean
1976 0338 013 Ruardean PENN Louisa DA - 14 Scholar GLS Ruardean
1976 0338 013 Ruardean PENN Eleanor DA - 12 Scholar GLS Ruardean
1976 0338 013 Ruardean PENN Edwin SO - 8 Scholar GLS Ruardean

From GFHS Marriage Index:
28 November 1822 John PENN married Susan GOOD by Banns at Ruardean.

Hope this helps in some way

Best wishes
Mike

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Michael,

Thank you for the extra snippets of information.

I just wish I knew which Sarah was mine and whether one or both of them were having illegitimate children.

I suppose if this hobby was too easy it wouldn't be quite so much fun!!

Jenny

5627 views

Michael,

Many thanks for the information.

I am squirreling it all away in the hopes that I can find something that will help determine which Sarah Hatton is mine and when I do I can put it all together.

Jenny

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DNA testing has found an exact match for Cornelius Hatton to Hatton males in Ireland. Also Nottingham. There are also matches with two Huttons. The Irish family claims their roots are in England. It appears that they were given land grants. When is still the question? The question is how far back can the Irish family be traced. If before 1808 then that changes the lineage of Cornelius Hatton as stated by my father who claims his parents as both Hattons [one married] so he was born out of wedlock] and that earlier members lived in London and are buried there.

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Looking at Public members Tree - although Cornelius HATTON married Jemima DAVIS in 1842 - there is a step-daughter Johanna age 11 on the 1851 census.

There is a marriage 14 October 1837 at Westbury on Severn, where both Cornelius HATTON and Jenima DAVIS where witnesses, so they knew each other 5 years before their marriage.

William SMITH, batchelor, Collier, residence, Elton, Westbury
father: William SMITH, Collier
married
Hannah RAVENHILL - of full age, Spinster
father: Thomas RAVENHILL - labourer.

At Cornelius' wedding: James HATTON was a witness

On the 1841 census for Ruardean, District 7
Page 6 of 9 is Cornelius

and on 8 of 9 is

Sarah HATTON - 60
Jane HATTON - 20
James HATTON - 19

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Thank you, Ernest

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Looking at Public members tree - Jemima DAVIS' daughter Johanna

Marriage at Drybrook - 4 October 1862

Thomas Cornelius HARDING - age 29, bachelor, labourer, residence: Ruardean, Woodside
father: Cornelius HARDING, labourer
married
Johanna DAVIS, age 23, Spinster, resident, Lea Bailey

(no father's name given)

witnesses: Edwin HARPER and Hannah EDMUNDS

--

1881 Census, Ruardean

HARDING

Thomas C - 45, Porter, born Glos. Ruardean
Johannah - 41 - born Hereford, Lea Bailey
Eliza - 12 - Glos Pluds
Thomas A - ditto
Ellen E - 6 - ditto
Albert G - 6 months

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I am familiar with the name Caroline who married a Lloyd. Don't remember where I got that information but a DNA test indicates I may have a cousin named Lloyd. Just passing that along. I think the name is rare enough to keep it in mine. I'll check to see how closely the person may be related.

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There is a related Lloyd going back to Merionethshire 1700s. I've written to the person who submitted the DNA.

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