Forest of Dean FHT Forum

Back to the forum index

Linear

I am a descendant of the Moore/Hopkins/Meek/Baggatt/Bright families of the Forest of Dean. George Moore, my great granduncle, of Plump Hill (1841 - 1904) married Louisa Cook of Cheltenham or Plump Hill (1846 - 1919) on 17 Feb 1866 in the Forest Church (Drybrook, Holy Trinity). In tracing the parents and siblings of Louisa Cook, I discovered that the family name was initially Williams (1851 and 1861 Censuses) and later changed to Cook (1871 - 1901 Censuses). I do not know why the family name changed. The family resided in the same vicinity (Mitcheldean/The Plump/Abinghall/Flaxley/East Dean) for the time period of the 1851 - 1901 Censuses. Louisa Cook's father was a blacksmith, James (Williams) Cook, born about 1816 in Weston under Penyard, Herefordshire. Her mother, Ann (Williams) Cook, was born about 1820 in Mitcheldean. Louisa had seven siblings: Eliza (1837), George (1849), Emmaline (1851), James (1854), Timothy (1857), William (1860), and John (1863). The five older were born in Mitcheldean; the two younger in East Dean.

Between 1861 and 1871, the family name, for some reason, changed from Williams to Cook. Any ideas on why this family would change their name from Williams to Cook?

If only one census (1851 or 1861)had the last name changed, I would suspect a transcription error. To have this family name reported as Williams in two consecutive censuses, however, does not support a "transcription" error.

I live in California and recently visited (September 2005) relatives in Cinderford who gave us a VIP tour of the Forest of Dean. We plan to make a return trip in 2007.

4431 views

Judging by the 1841 census entry there is some evidence here to pose the question was James Williams 1816 = James Cook the son of James and Sarah Cook ? and note the Ann WILLIAMS niece in 1851 entry, that probably makes Sarah Cooke a Williams ? was James W born to Sarah Williams before she married James Cooke ? or is James(W) a Nephew to James Cooke 1785, who took on his uncles Surname ? e.g. did he take over the Blacksmith business and use the Cook name for continuity ?

My best guess is that he was born to Sarah Williams before her marriage to James Cooke, and later in life he decided to take his "step fathers" surname , perhaps taking over the James Cook Blacksmith business. but you'll need some more evidence to support that guess :-)

IGI member entry
JAMES COOKE
---------------------------------------------------------------
Marriages:
Spouse: SARAH WILLIAMS
Marriage: 25 JUL 1819 Walford, , Hereford, England
---------------------------------------------------------------

Year: 1819
Month: Jul
Day: 25
Grooms_Surname: COOKE
Grooms_Forenames: James
Grooms_Age: [not stated]
Groom_Condition: Batchelor
Grooms_Occupation: [not stated]
Grooms_Residence: extraparochially
Grooms_Fathers_Surname:
Grooms_Fathers_Forenames:
Grooms_Fathers_Occupation:
Brides_Surname: WILLIAMS
Brides_Forenames: Sarah
Brides_Age: [not stated]
Brides_Condition: Spinster
Brides_Occupation: [not stated]
Brides_Residence: extraparochially
Brides_Fathers_Surname:
Brides_Fathers_Forenames:
Brides_Fathers_Occupation:
Licence_or_Banns: Banns
Date_of_Banns:
Signature_or_Mark: He signs she marks
Witness_1: Mary Jordan
Witness_2: James Webb
Other_Witnesses:
Officiating_Minister: T. D. Fosbrooke Min[iste]r
Event: Marriage
Memoranda:
Notes:
Register_Reference: AO19/6
Page_Number: 26
Parish_Chapel: Walford

1841 HO 107 365/9 folio 12
Townsend St Mitcheldean
James COOK 59 Blacksmith N
Sarah 52 Y
Thomas 19(?) Blacksmith Y
William 17 Labourer Y
George 12 Y
Emilina 9 Y

1851 High St Mitcheldean
James Cooke abt 1785 Weston Under Penyard, Herefordshire, England Head Mitcheldean Gloucestershire Blacksmith
Sarah Cooke abt 1789 Dean Forest, Gloucestershire, England Wife Mitcheldean Gloucestershire
Emmaline Cooke abt 1833 Mitcheldean, Gloucestershire, England Daughter Mitcheldean Gloucestershire
Thomas Cooke abt 1822 Mitcheldean, Gloucestershire, England Son Mitcheldean Gloucestershire
Ann Williams abt 1844 Mitcheldean, Gloucestershire, England Niece Mitcheldean Gloucestershire

1851 Townsend
James Williams abt 1816 Weston Under Penyard Head Mitcheldean Gloucestershire
Ann Williams abt 1820 Mitcheldean, Gloucestershire, England Wife Mitcheldean Gloucestershire
Eliza Williams abt 1838 Mitcheldean, Gloucestershire, England Daughter Mitcheldean Gloucestershire
Emaline Williams abt 1851 Chettonham, Gloucestershire, England Daughter Mitcheldean Gloucestershire
George Williams abt 1848 Chettonham, Gloucestershire, England Son Mitcheldean Gloucestershire
Louisa Williams abt 1847 Chettonham, Gloucestershire, England Daughter Mitcheldean Gloucestershire

1861 Townsend
James Williams abt 1815 Herefordshire, England Head Mitcheldean Gloucestershire Blacksmith
Ann Williams abt 1819 Mitcheldean, Gloucestershire, England Wife Mitcheldean Gloucestershire
Emmaline Williams abt 1851 Mitcheldean, Gloucestershire, England Daughter Mitcheldean Gloucestershire
George Williams abt 1848 Mitcheldean, Gloucestershire, England Son Mitcheldean Gloucestershire
James Williams abt 1854 Mitcheldean, Gloucestershire, England Son Mitcheldean Gloucestershire
Louisa Williams abt 1846 Mitcheldean, Gloucestershire, England Daughter Mitcheldean Gloucestershire
Timothy M Williams abt 1856 Mitcheldean, Gloucestershire, England Son Mitcheldean Gloucestershire
William D Williams abt 1858 Mitcheldean, Gloucestershire, England Son Mitcheldean Gloucestershire

1871 Fairplay Cottage
James Cook abt 1836 Weston, Herefordshire, England Head East Dean Gloucestershire Colliery Blacksmith
Ann Cook abt 1820 Mitcheldean, Gloucestershire, England Wife East Dean Gloucestershire
James Cook abt 1854 Mitcheldean, Gloucestershire, England Son East Dean Gloucestershire
John Cook abt 1863 East Dean, Gloucestershire, England Son East Dean Gloucestershire
Smith Cook abt 1857 Mitcheldean, Gloucestershire, England Son East Dean Gloucestershire
William Cook abt 1860 East Dean, Gloucestershire, England Son East Dean Gloucestershire

4500 views

Slowhands, I think your name change theory is very plausible. It appears from the IGI marriage information you found, and James (Williams) Cook's birth year of 1816, that he was born to Sarah Williams prior to her marriage to James Cook Sr. (1782 - ).

The four other children of Sarah Williams (Cook) were born after her 1819 marriage to James Cook and retained the family name of Cook. Only James, born in 1816, later changed his name from Williams to Cook, likely for the reason that you postulated: his desire to continue the family Blacksmith Trade under the name of Cook.

James Cook Sr. died between 1851 and 1861, and Sarah Williams Cook died between 1861 and 1871. Sometime between 1861 and 1866, James Williams changed the family name to Cook as his daugher, Louisa, was married in 1866 with the family name of Cook.

I have not yet found James and Ann Williams (Cook) and their daughter, Eliza (born 1837) in the 1841 Census -- I have the non-indexed CD version. Additionally, I am wondering if either James Cook Sr. and/or Sarah Williams (Cook) had been married previously since James Cook Sr. was age 37 and Sarah Williams (Cook) was age 30 when they married in 1819.

Thanks for responding so quickly to my e-mail inquiry, and for providing such a plausible and consistent theory on the name change from Williams to Cook.

4243 views

Strikes me that Sarah Williams may well be her (1st) married name so trawling the IGI / Parish records will be "fun" but not impossible......

< Mike G> may have something in the burial records that helps get a fix on a possible 1st marriage / deceased husband....

4284 views

Hello,

I have been researching the COOK family tree for the last 20years and had always drawn a blank for my G.G.G granfathers (James Cook) marriage to Ann Manning!

I think I may well have found the missing link - at least this theory does seem to make sense . .

I need to cross ref, my tree and come back to you . .

I do know though James Cook (snr) was born Abt 1816 and marries again much later on (as a widow) to Eliza Wakefield in 1881 aged 65 or so!

He died later 2nd March 1890 - 21, Blenheim Road, Barton St Mary, Glouce.

Need to a bit more checking and will report back

Many thanks for your information by the way! I cant believe I might make some progress after all these years.

Regards
Paul Cook

4285 views

Year: 1819
Month: Jul
Day: 11
Parents_Surname: MANNING
Child_Forenames: Anne
Fathers_Forenames: George
Mothers_Forenames: Emma
Mothers_Surname:
Residence: Mitcheldean
Occupation: Lime-burner
Officiating_Minister: John Newport Curate
Event: Baptism
Memoranda:
Notes:
Register_Reference: P 220 IN 1/3
Page_Number: 20
Parish_Chapel: Mitcheldean

--
Ἀριστοτέλης A Gloster Boy in the Forest of Dean ><((((*>

4289 views

thanks slowhands

I dont suppose you have any info on Ann's marriage to James - It seems there is no trace, hence my interest in the fact that James may well have been 'Williams' not Cook at the time?

Regards

4231 views

Year: 1837
Month: Oct
Day: 1
Parents_Surname: WILLIAMS
Child_Forenames: Eliza
Fathers_Forenames: James
Mothers_Forenames: Anne
Mothers_Surname:
Residence: Mitchel Dean
Occupation: Black-Smith
Officiating_Minister: George Cox Curate
Event: Baptism
Memoranda:
Notes:
Register_Reference: P 220 IN 1/3
Page_Number: 70
Parish_Chapel: Mitcheldean

< so now to find the marriage of James and Anne and where they are in 1841 !
based on the following children reasonable chance they are in Drybrook area>

Year 1839
Month Oct
Day 27
Parents Surname WILLIAMS
Child Forenames James
Fathers Forenames James
Mothers Forenames Ann
Mothers Surname
Residence Dry Brook Forest of Dean
Occupation Blacksmith
Officiating Minister George Cox Curate
Event Baptism
Memoranda
Notes
Register Reference P 220 IN 1/3
Page Number 74
Parish Chapel Mitcheldean

Year 1841
Month Feb
Day 21
Parents Surname WILLIAMS
Child Forenames Thomas
Fathers Forenames James
Mothers Forenames Anne
Mothers Surname
Residence Drybrook
Occupation Blacksmith
Officiating Minister R.T. Budd
Event Baptism
Memoranda
Notes
Register Reference P109 IN 1/2
Page Number 16
Parish Chapel Drybrook

Year 1851
Month Mar
Day 30
Parents Surname WILLIAMS
Child Forenames Emmeline
Fathers Forenames James
Mothers Forenames Ann
Mothers Surname
Residence Michel Dean
Occupation Blacksmith
Officiating Minister E. Machen Rector
Event Baptism
Memoranda
Notes
Register Reference P 220 IN 1/3
Page Number 95
Parish Chapel Mitcheldean

--
Ἀριστοτέλης A Gloster Boy in the Forest of Dean ><((((*>

4219 views

Thanks once again! Cant thank you enough

I wasnt aware of Thomas Williams (Cook)!

Eliza and Emmeline are consistent with reocrds I have (didnt have baptisms though)

Its James (my G.G.G.)baptism entry of 1839 that now flumoxes me! I have his birth cert here - consistent with other census entries as 23 Nov 1853. Could this be an type error?

(Its so complicated - the fact that there are 3 generation of James one of which swithed there name form Williams).

appreciate your help

Regards
Paul

4211 views

one consideration is that this "new" James W died whilst the familiy lived in Cheltenham before the 1851 census

possible ?

Name: James Williams
Year of Registration: 1845
Quarter of Registration: Oct-Nov-Dec
District: Cheltenham
County: Gloucestershire
Volume: 11
Page: 129

--
Ἀριστοτέλης A Gloster Boy in the Forest of Dean ><((((*>

4184 views

great - thanks Slowhands!

I noticed from another thread youve answered in relation to George Manning for a.n.other user - You posted the following info ;

George Manning & Emma (nee Wadley)married Mitcheldean
27 Sept 1818.
Children baptized Mitcheldean -
Maryanne/Anne b1819 married Robert Stevens 1832
Timothy Manning b1822 married Jane Penn 1846,
Elize Manning b1824 married David Powell 1851
George Manning b1827 married ?
William Manning b1830 married Hannah Gibbins 11/8/1850.
William and Hannah migrated to Australia with 4 children, George b1851, Emma b1854, Ada b1859, Amelia b1861 died en route buried at sea off coast South Africa.
Emma Manning bc 1837 married Enoch Cooper 1856.
Maria Manning b1839 married Henry Davis 1857.
Harriet Manning b1842 married EnocH VOYCE 1859.

Can you confirm the source of info on Anne's marriage to Robert Stevens? I would like to veify that this is indeed the same Anne Manning that married James Cook (Williams)?

Kind Regards
Paul

4222 views

Year: 1832
Month: Nov
Day: 19
Grooms_Surname: STEVENS
Grooms_Forenames: Robert
Grooms_Age:
Groom_Condition: [not stated]
Grooms_Occupation:
Grooms_Residence: Hund[re]d of St. Braivils
Grooms_Fathers_Surname:
Grooms_Fathers_Forenames:
Grooms_Fathers_Occupation:
Brides_Surname: MANNING
Brides_Forenames: Maryanne
Brides_Age:
Brides_Condition: [not stated]
Brides_Occupation:
Brides_Residence: Hund[re]d of St. Braivils
Brides_Fathers_Surname:
Brides_Fathers_Forenames:
Brides_Fathers_Occupation:
Licence_or_Banns: Banns
Date_of_Banns:
Signature_or_Mark: Both mark
Witness_1: George Manning
Witness_2: Emma Maning
Other_Witnesses:
Officiating_Minister: Edmund Probyn Rector
Event: Marriage
Memoranda: with consent of friends
Notes:
Register_Reference: P1 IN 1/9
Page_Number: 62
Parish_Chapel: Abenhall

Year: 1838
Month: Jul
Day: 22
Parents_Surname: STEVENS
Child_Forenames: Caroline
Fathers_Forenames: Robert
Mothers_Forenames: Mary
Mothers_Surname:
Residence: Harry Hill
Occupation: Collier
Officiating_Minister: H. Berkin
Event: Baptism
Memoranda:
Notes:
Register_Reference: P109 IN 1/1
Page_Number: 186
Parish_Chapel: Drybrook

1851
Robart Stephens abt 1805 East Dean, Gloucestershire, England Head East Dean, Gloucestershire
Caroline Stephens abt 1837 East Dean, Gloucestershire, England Daughter East Dean, Gloucestershire

1861
Robert Stephens abt 1805 East Dean, Gloucestershire, England Head East Dean, Gloucestershire
Caroline Stephens abt 1839 East Dean, Gloucestershire, England Daughter East Dean, Gloucestershire

--
Ἀριστοτέλης A Gloster Boy in the Forest of Dean ><((((*>

4201 views

I am a little late into this thread but have been away for a few weeks - strangely enough in California.

My great grandmother was a Caroline Cook (b. 19 April 1861 in Mitcheldean d. 4 September 1944 in Gloucester) one of 11 children of Thomas Cook (b. 1822 in Mitcheldean d. 1897) and Ann Cannock (b. 1829 in Abenhall). The other chidren were Sarah Ann (b.1853), Tom (b. 1855), James (b. 1857), Arthur (b. 1859), Alice (b. 1863), Bertha (b. 1865), Emily (b. 1867), William (b. 1867), Louisa (b. 1869), and Ada (b. 1874). All born in Mitcheldean. Caroline married an Arthur William Horlick hence my interest.

Thomas Cook was the son of James Cook (b. abt 1786 in Weston under Penyard, Herefordshire) and Sarah Williams (b. abt 1788 in Dean Forest). The other children were Mary (b. 23 Feb 1823), William (b. 1824), Edwin (b. 21 Nov 1825), John (b. 1828), George (b. 1829), Louisa (b. abt 1830 d. 1830), and Emmaline (b. 1832). All in Mitcheldean.

My other notes of James Cook include:

Mitcheldean Parish register shows a James Cook buried 12 November 1857 aged 75 years. Subsequently I visited Mitcheldean and found and photographed his and Sarah's gravestone.

Slater's Directory 0f 1852-53 shows him as blacksmith in Mitcheldean.

The 1851 Census shows him as blacksmith (66) living with his wife Sarah (62) and son Thomas (29) blacksmith (my Gt Gt Grandfather) and daughter Emmaline (18) at 79 High Street, Mitcheldean. Also in the house was Thomas Voice (14) apprentice blacksmith and William Manning (39) lodger an agricultural labourer and Ann Williams (7) his neice.

Pigot's Directory of 1845 shows him with William Cook as blacksmith in MItcheldean.

The 1841 Census shows him (59) blacksmith living with his wife Sarah (52) sons William (17) labourer, George (12) and daughter Emilina (9) at Towns End Street Mitcheldean, Gloucestershire.

I am not sure how this helps in identify your James Cook or the apparent change of name but there does seem to be a definite connection with the Williams family.

4236 views

I am interested in this name change because George Williams (1849), son of James & Ann, married Emma Malson on 5 Jul 1868 at St John, Cinderford.

Emma already had a daughter, Leah Kate Voice Malson (1865), father not known, but there may be a clue in Leah's third forename of Voice. It appears that Leah then lives a separate life from her mother as she never appears in any census return with Emma.

In 1871 the Williams family are living in Drybrook. (RG10 2597/36/3)
George Williams, aged 22, married,born in Cheltenham,Blacksmith
Emma Williams, aged 25, married, born in East Dean
Emma Williams, aged 2, born in East Dean
Annie Williams, aged 1 and born in East Dean.

In 1881 the family are in Ruardean. (RG11 2586/49/15)
George Williams, aged 32, married, born in Cheltenham,Blacksmith
Emma Williams, aged 34, married, born in Drybrook
Emma Williams, aged 14, a scholar, born in East Dean
Annie Williams, aged 12, a scholar, born in East Dean
Fanny Williams, aged 9, a scholar, born in East Dean
Dorothea Williams, aged 7, a scholar, born in East Dean
George Williams, aged 5, a scholar, born in East Dean
Bertha Williams, aged 6, a scholar, born in East Dean
Tom Williams, aged 2 and born in East Dean
Albert Williams, aged 2 months and born in Ruardean

Sometime before the 1891 census the family switch to COOK.

In 1891 the family are at Harry Hill. (RG12 2004/83/11)
George Cook, aged 43, married, born in Cheltenham, Blacksmith
Emma Cook, aged 45, married, born in East Dean
George Cook, aged 16, born in East Dean
Bertha Cook, aged 14, a scholar, born in East Dean
Tom Cook, aged 12, a scholar, born in East Dean
Netty Cook, aged 8, a scholar and born in East Dean

To date I haven't found the family in the 1901 census

In 1911 the family are at Harry Hill. (15225/023)
George Cook, aged 63, married, born in Cheltenham, Blacksmith in Colliery
Emma Cook, aged 65, married, born in East Dean
Ellen Cook, aged 27, unmarried, born in East Dean
This return records there being 8 of the 10 children surviving. George and Emma have been married for 43 years.
There is also a grandson, John Lardner (1893), in the household. He is Annie Williams son.

Do I presume this is another part of the Cook's Blacksmith empire.

I have read the thread and if I have understood it correctly, George is following the pattern of his father James Williams, who was married to Ann, and changed his name to Cook between 1861 and 1871. I am assuming that the enumerator should have recorded James age in 1871 as 55, not 35. James then, was born to Ann, before her marriage in 1819 to James Cook. Am I to presume that it is this James Cook, who is running the Blacksmith business, which triggers James and later George to change their surnames from Williams to Cook? I hope I've understood that correctly.

Geoff Dunbar

3932 views

To date I haven't found the family in the 1901 census

Picking a neighbour on Harry Hill - Eli Chivers and searching around District 5 East Dean in 1901 - does not uncover a Blacksmith COOK or WILLIAMS family - its as if they have been omitted by the enumerator

--
Ἀριστοτέλης A Gloster Boy in the Forest of Dean ><((((*>

3870 views

Thanks for the message. It is far from the first time that I have 'disappearing' families in our tree.

3871 views

RSS Feed of thread

powered by my little forum