Hello. There is a transcript (on this website) of the burial record for Henry Crump at Cinderford St John's in September 1867. He was aged 48 and a resident of Ruspidge. Having searched the general register of deaths for 1867-1869 there does not appear to be a corresponding record of his death. I wondered if anyone may have come across him before and might be able to shed some light please. Thanks

It is possible that his death was not registered:
During the early days of civil registration many deaths and births were not registered,It was not until 1875 that the rules governing civil registration were tightened up so that everyone became aware that all births and deaths should be registered.

Mike

1861 Census, Glos. East Dean, St John (Enumerator's notes, say Nr. to Cinderford)

Ruspidge

Henry CRUMP - age 42, Collier Coal Mine, born Bristol
Sarah CRUMP - 38, Warwick, Arlington
George CRUMP - 17, Collier boy, born Glos. Blakeney
Emma CRUMP - 1 - born East Dean

Unfortunately, after Henry's death, the family went to the Poor House

1871 Census, Westbury on Severn District 5
UNION POOR HOUSE

Emma CRUMP - age 11 - Page 18
Sevina CRUMP - age 8, Page 18
Henry CRUMP - age 6 - Page 15
Sarah CRUMP - Widow age 43, Servant, Page 16 - born Warwick, Cubbington

? 1851 Census, East Dean, District 5a
Blakeney Hill

James WEBB - 71? House Proprietor, born Gloucester
James WEBB - 37, Brigeman - born East Dean
Henry CRUMP - son-in-law, (Widower ?), age 36, Coalminer - born East Dean
Moses CRUMP - Grandson, age 12, Scholar
David CRUMP - ditto age 10
George CRUMP - ditto age 8

1841 Census Glos. Dean Forest, Newnham
Blakeney Hill

Henry CRUMP age 25
Sarah CRUMP age 25
Moses CRUMP age 2
David CRUMP age 2

FOD records : Newnham

Henry CRUMP (father John CRUMP, Labourer) of St Briavells
married
Sarah WEBB (father: James WEBB) - 25 March 1838

witnesses: * Daniel CRUMP, Harriet WEBB, J W SHORTMAN

* 1841 Census, Newnham

Darl CRUNK

Danl CRUMP - age 25, Lab (not born in County)
Elizabeth - 25 - born in County
Elizabeth - 5 - ditto
William - 4 ditto
Mary - 1

1851 Census, Newnham

CRAMP

Daniel CRUMP - 39, Gardener, born Tewkesbury
Elizabeth CRUMP - 47, born Newham
William 13, Mary Ann 10, Jd D 8
William ROBINS, Relative, unmarried age 64, Labourer, born Newnham
Robert VERRY - Relative, unmarried, Sailor, age 28, born Newnham

Thanks Mike. It always seems to be my ancestors who did not register events! I take it that all pages of the burial record would have been transcribed and that there are no records held elsewhere which may assist?

Judith

May be an Inquest was held - The Forest of Dean Inquests (at present) start 1868

Although there are CRUMP's listed (either as deceased or in the case of David CRUMP of Ruspidge in
1874, an attendee).

Web site

Mining Accidents - Raleys

A very interesting and grim website - for working conditions (1842 Royal Commission) and accidents

http://www.cmhrc.co.uk/site/home/

if you search on site (look for Heading - Accidents/Disasters - Crump - there is a Henry CRUMP, Lightmoor, Cinderford 1867 - but age 31

24.8.1867

Henry Crump - The cage stopped 47 yards from the bottom to take 2 workmen and Crump thought he had arrived and stepped out, fell and was killed. They make take people in coming up, but not in going down.

Search also by Forest of Dean - brings up 212 Forest Folk - click on their name (in Green) and up comes the information

Once again thanks very much.

I am researching my family history. I have traced the Crump family back to Henry who married Sarah Sabin. Henry was born around 1817 in Blakeney and they had a daughter Emma born in 1859 in Newnham, she married John Edward Gauton born in Madeley. They moved north and eventually settled in Barnsley, Yorkshire. Emma was my father's grandmother. Any information about the family and their life would be welcome. Thanks to all. Katliz

Gloucestershirebdm

ww3.gloucestershire.gov.uk/bmd/

have two CRUMP children listed - mother's maiden name SIBIN - Emma 1859 and Harry 1864 **

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IGI

Baptism at CUBBINGTON - Warwickshire - 11 October 1829

Sarah SABIN - parents Richard & Mary

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1911 Census, 50 Cameson Road, Derby
Living in 5 rooms

Harry CRUMP - 48 - married 28 years, 1 child born alive, 1 living, Iron Plater, born Glos. FOD
Emma - 52 - born Derbyshgire, Spondon
Clara - daughter - 19 - Elastic Hose Maker, born Derby
Ann WRIGHT, mother-in-law - age 93 - Widow, born Nottinghamshire, Beeston

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1901 Census, Derbyshire, Derby

Harry CRUMP - 38 - Iron Plater, born Glos FOD
Emma - 42 - born Spondon, Derby
Clara - 8 - born Derby
Ann WRIGHT - mother-in-law - 83 - born Beeston, Notts

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1891 Census, Derbyshire, St Weburgh
3 Pousonby Terrance

Ann WRIGHT - 73 - born Notts Beeston
Emma CRUMP - 32 - daughter, born Derbyshire
Harry CRUMP - 27 - son-in-law - Wheelturner, born Gloucestershire Forest of Dean

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1881 Census, Derbyshire
Derby St Alkmand

lodger

Sarah CRUMP - 56 - Domestic Servant, born Cublington, Warwickshire (Cubbington) c1825
Harry CRUMP - 18 - Striker, born Viney Hill, Gloucestershire

I was interested in the Crump postings and we seem to be inter related. This may not be of interest to anyone but here goes.
My ggg grandparents James Webb m Charlotte Boxel 1803 Awre with Blakeney. 1851 on census with some of the Crump family as stated.
Their daughter Harriett Webb (Witness at the wedding of Sarah Webb & Henry Crump 1838) m William Carter and on 1841 census they had a Sussanna Watkins aged 20 living with them.
I believe she was Susanna Crump who married William Watkins 1838. Also a 4 day unnamed baby was present which again I think was later name Harriett

????

FOD records

Marriage at Churcham - 24 Apr 1800

John CRUMP - of this Parish

married

Mary DOWLE - of this Parish

by licence

witnesses: Thomas DOWLE
Mary LOVERIDGE

(think is is the John CRUMP - who is buried at Churcham - 1 March 1847, age 67 - residence Hasfield)
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???

Looking at family names: possible baptism at Ledbury - 13 May 1778

John CRUMP

parents William and Susanna

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? Church of Latter Day Saints

Christenings at Bristol St James : Parents John & Mary CRUMP

David - 16 February 1817 - born 25 February 1816
Henry - 9 November 1817 ? is this the Henry CRUMP who married Sarah WEBB in 1838
Samuel - 12 December 1819

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FOD records

Baptism at Littledean

17 February 1822

Susannah CRUMP

parents : John (occupation Maltster) & Mary

and John - 5 September 1824, Blakeney All Saints, parents John & Mary - Malster
Mary - 8 January 1830 - ditto, John (labourer)

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Three earlier possible baptisms at Hasfield St Mary * or there could be two John & Mary CRUMP's *****

Thomas - 26 September 1809
John Francis CRUMP - 31 May 1814 - parents: John & Mary (occupation : Yeoman)
Helen CRUMP - 27 July 1819

***

marriage at Hasfield - 25 November 1846

Thomas CRUMP of full age, bachelor, farmer - residence: Deerhurt
married
Eliza DOWELL - of full age, Spinster, residence : hasfield
father: Benjamin Derig ? - farmer, by Licence

witnesses: John CRUMP - Edith DOWLE and George WHITE

--

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1841 Census, Dean Forest, Newnham
Old Furnance

CRUMP

John - 60 - Malster, all born in County
Mary - 60
Mary - 14

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FOD records

Baptism at Westbury on Severn

18 Jun 1843

William WATKINS

father's forenames: William - occupation Labourer

mother's forenames: Susannah

residence: Westbury

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GloucestershireBDM

William WATKINS, 1843, Huntley : Mother's maiden name CRUMP
John Crump WATKINS, 1845, Westbury on Severn, Newnham : Mother's maiden name CRUMP
Samuel WATKINS, 1848, DITTO

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1851 Census, Glos East Dean, Old Furance Bottom

Mary CRUMP - Widow 69 - Charwoman born West Dean
Thomas BASSETT - Lodger 60
next door

WATKINS

William - 35 - Ag. Lab. born Huntley
Susan - 30 - Little Dean
William - 7 - born Westbury on Severn
John - 5 - East Dean
Samuel - 2 - East Dean

*****

FOD records

Burial at Awre : 5 December 1844
John CRUMP age 72 - residence, Forest of Dean

Burial at Churcham: 1 March 1847

John CRUMP age 67 - residence: Hasfield

Is there a known connection between the family name and Crump Meadow?

Crump Meadow Colliery

http://www.dmm.org.uk/company/l1012.htm

http://www.lightmoor.co.uk/forestcoal/CoalCrumpMead.html

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not sure if this is relevant!

Gloucestershire Archives: Online Catalogue

Finding Ref: D3398/1/13

Title:

Lease for 7 years of meadow ground plated with fruit trees called the Warth at Longney) and orchard (Mrs Elizabeth CRUMP and Mrs Susannah NICHOLLS to William Viner ELLIS*) - conveyance of freehold and copyhold lands: messuage called Hannil ... now divided into three dwelling houses, 3 closes meadow/orcharding; various piece of copyhold lands held from manor (William Viner Ellis).

Date: 1813-1840

*

ELLIS - FOD records, Minsterworth inc William Viner ELLIS Snr. and Jnr.

Thanks, mpg.

Even if the Severn didn't intervene, I'd agree that Longney is a bit far from Crump Meadow for a cogent connection between Elizabeth Crump and the colliery. However, from your county archive probe I assume this Mrs Crump is one of the earliest of that name to be found with land in the county.

I wonder, though, if an admittedly slender clue to a connection between Crump Meadow and the Crump family name can be found in the Lightmoor website link you've produced. Early records of the workings show that the colliery was started by Edward Protheroe in 1829, but the 1841 awards included gales called "Crump's Resolution" and "Crump's Regulation." The possessive apostrophe never seems to be found in anything called "Crump's Meadow." It comes only as "Crump Meadow", so you might have expected "Crump Resolution" and "Crump Regulation" if no Mr or Mrs Crump had ever been on the scene. A straw to clutch, but still a straw.

I'll see what my cousin knows. His grandfather worked for Crump Meadow in connection with coal shipments from Lydney Docks, but, as we know from Lightmoor, it was only realistic to ship coal from Lydney rather than Bullo Pill once the connection to the Mineral Loop had been made, so anything handed down about a Crump at Crump Meadow might be third generation or so. Watch this space, although I'm not sure it will be filled.

Re: the link to Crump Meadow Coliery : Edward PROTHEROE

1841 Census, Glos. Newnham
Newham Street

Edward PROTHEROE - 67 - Coal Me..rher - born in County
Anne - 70 - not born in County

1851 Census,
Middx. St George Hanover Square, Belgrave

8 Ecclestone Square

PROTHEROE

Edward - 77, Proprietor of Iron & Coal Mines, born Bristol
Ann - 80 - born Hailfax, Yorkshire

+ 3 servants

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Forest-of-dean Way Mark - Edward Protheroe seems to be a dominant figure in FOD coal industry at that time

www.way-mark.co.uk/forestofdean/historic/hstcin0e.htm

and

The History of Parliament - PROTHEROE- Edward (1774-1856)

http://www.historyofparliamentonline.org/volume/1790-1820/member/protheroe-edward-1774-...

That seems likely to be the man who started the colliery. A move to Belgravia suggests he made a bob or two. Perhaps he emulated the Crawshays of Oaklands Park!

'assume this Mrs CRUMP is one of the earliest of that name to be found with land in the County'

A search on National Archives (A2a) -

These documents are held at Gloucestershire Archives

D2957/139/70 - Michaelmas term 1633

Contents

Right hand indenture of fine

1. Richard CRUMPE; Robert CRUMPE; Edward BEARD (querents)

2. Joseph MORWENT and Sarah his wife (deforciants)

Two messuages, 2 barns, 2 gardens, 2 orchards, 2 acres of land, one acre of meadow, 6 acres of pasture, and common of pasture during the whole year with appurts, Rodley, Wesbury, Sawle and Standish

Consideration: £60

The History of Parliament - Richard CRUMPE 1628-1700 (of Rodley)

http://www.historyofparliamentonline.org/volume/1660-1690/member/crumpe-sir-richard-162...

Susannah Crump was my ggg grandmother. She was married to William Watkins, who was born about 1818. Their son, also William was born in Westbury on Severn and his birth was registered by the Master of the Wetsbury Union Workhouse in Aug 1843, although his birthdate on the certificate, is given as 24 May 1843. I would love to find out from the workhouse ledgers why they were in the workhouse. I understand these are at the Gloucester Record Office. There are several William Watkin's mentioned in criminal records lists so I wonder if William senior spent time in prison, which would explain why in the 1841 census he is not with Susannah.
Their son, William Watkins junior moved to Newport Mon as did another of their sons, Samuel, who was born in 1848. Both married there and raised families.
I am pleased to have been able to take my family back another generation, by seeing your posting about John and Mary Crump

re: the 1841 census.

Richard CARTER - 75
Henrey CARTER - 26
William CARTER - 24
Harriett CARTER - 23
N/K (female) 4 days

William CARTER (father Richard CARTER) married Harriett WEBB - 24 December 1840 Awre

Gloucestershirebdm: Hester CARTER, birth - 1840 Westbury on Severn, mother's maiden name WEBB

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- on Gloucetershirebdm

two births: WATKINS/CRUMP - both Forest of Dean, Westbury on Severn -

Elizabeth - 1839 - Fod Records - christened 26 July 1839 - at Blakeney - parents William & Susannah - (Old Furnace)
Emma - 1840 (? Burial at Awre 1 January 1841, Emma WATKINS - aged 4 months)

Freebdm: Birth July/August/Sept Qtr 1840 - Westbury on Severn - the 4 day old baby on the census doesn't look to be Susanna's

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If you cross-check Ancestry Criminal Records with Gloucestershire Records office (theirs are)

William WATKINS - age 25, 2 December 1840, Much Birch, Hereford, labourer
William WATKINS - age 26 - 13 October 1841, Much Birch, Hereford, labourer

William WATKINS - age 23 - 1 January 1841 - Old Sodbury

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Ancestry :

William WATKINS, Gloucestershire age 25 - date of trial - 5 January 1841 - 3 months - larcency

William WATKINS, Gloucestershire - age 23 date of trial - 31 March 1841 - 18 months, sheep stealing - he wouldn't be out until September 1843.

Date of 1841 census: 6 June 1841 - so the first one should be 'out of jail.
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William WATKINS would be aged around 24 - 1841 census