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The following message I am posting on behalf of Brian Watkins of Lincoln whose ancestors came from Bream, Gloucestershire. If anybody can help Brian further or verify what research he has done is correct, then please let us know. Thanks, DW.

Here are a few details > William Watkins bapt nov 1817 m Lucy Hawkins feb 1838
issue - Henry 1838, Thomas 1841, Charles 1844, William 1846, George, 'my g't grandfather' 1848 & John 1851

William W.bapt.April 1791m Sarah?? Issue >Richard 1815, William 1817, & Mary 1822.

James W ,1741 m Sarah Williams 1782, issue > Richard 1783, Sarah 1785, James 1787 & William1791.

If you have the means to verify this & tell me I'm on the right track I would appreciate it very much.

The family tree, I've done all my research from Lincoln using the local archives which holds the 'general record indexes for England & Wales back to 1837

For births, marriages & deaths; I've used the internet i.e rootsweb & the I.G.I from familysearch, including the 'new batch numbers'; I also have at home copies of the 'National Burial Index' 2nd edition & the 'Vital Records Index' 2nd edition which have been of little use but sometimes you do strike gold.

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I am from Lincoln too
I will be near Bream at the weekend in Broadwell researching my family, is there anything local that I can locate for you, graves etc but i would need to know tonight

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The very early "entries" in IGI are member submitted so unable to cross check

WILLIAM WATKINS
--------------------------------------
Event(s):
Birth:
Christening: 30 NOV 1817 Saint James, Bream, Gloucester, England
------------------------------------
Parents:
Father: WILLIAM WATKINS
Mother: SARAH
-------------------------------------
Messages:
Extracted birth or christening record for the locality listed in the record.
The source records are usually arranged chronologically by the birth or christening date.
-----------------------------------------
Source Information:
Batch No.: Dates: Source Call No.: Type: Printout Call No.: Type:
C036491 1813 - 1875 0856956 Film 6911915 Film
Sheet: 00

RICHARD WATKINS
--------------------------------------------------
Event(s):
Birth:
Christening: 12 MAR 1815 Saint James, Bream, Gloucester, England
--------------------------------------------
Parents:
Father: WILLM WATKINS
Mother: SARAH
---------------------------------------------
Messages:
Extracted birth or christening record for the locality listed in the record.
The source records are usually arranged chronologically by the birth or christening date.
----------------------------------------
Source Information:
Batch No.: Dates: Source Call No.: Type: Printout Call No.: Type:
C036491 1813 - 1875 0856956 Film 6911915 Film
Sheet: 00

MARY WATKINS
------------------------------------
Event(s):
Birth:
Christening: 31 MAR 1822 Saint James, Bream, Gloucester, England
-------------------------------------
Parents:
Father: WILLIAM WATKINS
Mother: SARAH
---------------------------------------
Messages:
Extracted birth or christening record for the locality listed in the record.
The source records are usually arranged chronologically by the birth or christening date.
-----------------------------------------
Source Information:
Batch No.: Dates: Source Call No.: Type: Printout Call No.: Type:
C036491 1813 - 1875 0856956 Film 6911915 Film
Sheet: 00

1851 west dean

WATKINS William 34 Coal Miner West Dean
Lucy 37 West Dean
Henry 12 Coal Miner West Dean
Thomas 9 West Dean
Charles 6 West Dean
William 4 West Dean
George 2 West Dean
John 12 days

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1841

HO 107 /365 /1 Folio 5
Bream Grove
William WATKINS 50 Collier
Sarah 56
Richard 26 Collier
William 23 Collier
Mary 19

All born in county

1851 Bream Lane
William Watkins abt 1790 Newland, Gloucestershire, England Head Newland Gloucestershire
Sarah Watkins abt 1779 Newland, Gloucestershire, England Wife Newland Gloucestershire

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1841 Bream

HO 107 /365 /1 Folio 5 Bream
Thomas WATKINS 30 I M ( Iron Miner ?)
Sarah 25
Caroline 6
Mary 4
Thomas 11 Mon
All born in county

1851 Mill Hill
Thomas Watkins abt 1809 West Dean, Gloucestershire, England Head West Dean Gloucestershire
Sarah Watkins abt 1817 West Dean, Gloucestershire, England Wife West Dean Gloucestershire
Frances Watkins abt 1846 West Dean, Gloucestershire, England Daughter West Dean Gloucestershire
Mary Watkins abt 1839 West Dean, Gloucestershire, England Daughter West Dean Gloucestershire
Richard Watkins abt 1842 Newland, Gloucestershire, England Son West Dean Gloucestershire
Robert Watkins abt 1850 West Dean, Gloucestershire, England Son West Dean Gloucestershire
Thomas Watkins abt 1840 Newland, Gloucestershire, England Son West Dean Gloucestershire

1861 Saunders Green
Thomas Watkins abt 1809 Bream, Gloucestershire, England Head West Dean Gloucestershire
Sarah Watkins abt 1814 Bream, Gloucestershire, England Wife West Dean Gloucestershire
Fanny Watkins abt 1846 Bream, Gloucestershire, England Daughter West Dean Gloucestershire
Henry Watkins abt 1845 Bream, Gloucestershire, England Son West Dean Gloucestershire
Mary Watkins abt 1838 Bream, Gloucestershire, England Daughter West Dean Gloucestershire
Rickard Watkins abt 1843 Bream, Gloucestershire, England Son West Dean Gloucestershire
Robert Watkins abt 1852 Bream, Gloucestershire, England Son West Dean Gloucestershire
Thomas Watkins abt 1841 Bream, Gloucestershire, England Son West Dean Gloucestershire

1871 Oakwood / Sun Tump
Sarah Watkins abt 1815 West Dean, Gloucestershire, England Head West Dean Gloucestershire
Frances Watkins abt 1849 West Dean, Gloucestershire, England Daughter West Dean Gloucestershire
Henry Watkins abt 1855 West Dean, Gloucestershire, England Son West Dean Gloucestershire
Robert Watkins abt 1851 West Dean, Gloucestershire, England Son West Dean Gloucestershire

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Not sure where / who this is -

1841 Bream Tump
HO 107 /365/1 folio 7
John Watkins 64 born in county
living with family headed by
Richard Morgan 20 Collier

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1841 Bream Eaves
John Shingles abt 1811 Gloucestershire, England Dean Forest Gloucestershire
Elizabeth Shingles abt 1806 Gloucestershire, England Dean Forest Gloucestershire
James Shingles abt 1835 Gloucestershire, England Dean Forest Gloucestershire
John Shingles abt 1832 Gloucestershire, England Dean Forest Gloucestershire
George Watkins abt 1828 Gloucestershire, England Dean Forest Gloucestershire
Thomas Watkins abt 1826 Gloucestershire, England Dean Forest Gloucestershire

1851 Bream Woodside
George Watkins abt 1802 Newland, Gloucestershire, England Head West Dean Gloucestershire
Elizabeth Watkins abt 1803 Newland, Gloucestershire, England Wife West Dean Gloucestershire
George Watkins abt 1829 Newland, Gloucestershire, England Stepson West Dean Gloucestershire
Elizabeth Watkins abt 1845 West Dean, Gloucestershire, England Daughter West Dean Gloucestershire
John Shingles abt 1832 West Dean, Gloucestershire, England Stepson West Dean Gloucestershire
Ann Jenkins abt 1836 Bath, Somerset, England Niece West Dean Gloucestershire
James Shingles abt 1836 Westdean, Gloucestershire, England Stepson West Dean Gloucestershire

1861 Bream Eaves
George Watkins abt 1803 Bream, Gloucestershire, England Head West Dean Gloucestershire
Elizabeth Watkins abt 1801 Bream, Gloucestershire, England Wife West Dean Gloucestershire
Elizabeth Watkins abt 1845 Bream, Gloucestershire, England Daughter West Dean Gloucestershire

1871 Bream Eaves
George Watkins abt 1817 West Dean, Gloucestershire, England Head West Dean Gloucestershire
Elizabeth Watkins abt 1803 West Dean, Gloucestershire, England Wife West Dean Gloucestershire
Richard Morgan abt 1834 West Dean, Gloucestershire, England Son-in-law West Dean Gloucestershire
Elizabeth Morgan abt 1845 West Dean, Gloucestershire, England Daughter West Dean Gloucestershire
Eugena B Morgan abt 1865 West Dean, Gloucestershire, England Granddaughter West Dean Gloucestershire
Geneva A Morgan abt 1864 West Dean, Gloucestershire, England Granddaughter West Dean Gloucestershire
Eliza A Morgan abt 1871 West Dean, Gloucestershire, England Granddaughter West Dean Gloucestershire

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I am also interested in this 1851 Bream Woodside family and am hoping that it may allow me to break through a brick wall I have had for several years..

Apologies but this is a bit of a "wander"

My brick wall concerns the parents of a Thomas b 1827 (Bream) who married a Helena Kear b 1831 Little Deans Hill (who I know a lot about).

1851 WEST DEAN P.R.O. Reference # HO 107/2444

WATKINS Thomas 24 Iron Miner Newland
Elenor 20 East Dean
Rhoda 1 Llanfoist

I believe that Thomas' father was a William Watkins but there are many to choose from.

In the 1841 Ancestry indicies I could find no Thomases that had William for a father. I did however find a suitably aged Thomas Watkins who appears with a George Watkins together with a Shingles family. So it's possible that Elizabeth remarried.

1841
John Shingles abt 1811 Dean Forest Gloucestershire
Elizabeth Shingles abt 1806 Dean Forest Gloucestershire
Thomas Watkins abt 1826 Dean Forest Gloucestershire
George Watkins abt 1828 Dean Forest Gloucestershire
John Shingles abt 1832 Dean Forest Gloucestershire
James Shingles abt 1835 Dean Forest Gloucestershire

Encouragingly in 1851 Thomas and Helena Kear are resident very close to (ie within census a page or so) the George Watkins family you've posted that contains the remnants of the above Shingles family.

I also know from IGI that John Shingles married Elizabeth WATKINS in 03 SEP 1831 at Newland, Gloucester, England; that he died in Q2 1844; and that Elizabeth married George Watkins in Q3 1844.

What I really need help with is

(1) Was Elizabeth a widow when she married John Shingles in 1831. Obviously even if this is the case it still doesn't prove that this is MY Thomas Watkins mother

(2) A baptism record for Thomas Watkins born 1826/27 in Bream to a Wlliam and Elizabeth Watkins (and if so are there any siblings, including a George?)

Can anyone help or is this just too speculative ?

Thanks

AL

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Hi Al,
I have a George Watkins born about 1830 in Colford, St. Briavels. George married Elizabeth Davis born about 1831 in Lower Cam, Forest of Dean. There is a post on this site for Richard Watkins. Slowhands was the author (he is very helpful when looking for ancestors) so I asked about any George Watkins's from the Forest of Dean. In his reply he listed various census returns and interestingly there was a George and Elizabeth Watkins and both were listed as being widowed. Could this be your George? My George and Elizabeth went to Wales around about 1870.

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No, I think this George and Elizabeth are much too young to be mine. My George and Elizabeth were born approx 1802 and 1803 respectively.

It's really the Elizabeth I'm interested as her first husband (if indeed she was married when she had her son Thomas) may be my brick wall - a William Watkins, father of Thomas Watkins (b 1827, Bream GLS; moved to Llanfoist MON ~1850 and stayed there 1901+).

Thanks for taking the time to reply

Al

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Hi I know this is a very old index in the forum, but just wondering how you went with your brick wall = Thomas WATKINS c1827? I'm new to family history, am a decendant of Thomas WATKINS via Richard Kear WATKINS c1854. I've found a few records indicating that his father William Watkins c1802 may have married a Ann PITT or Ann BUTLER. Am I way off track? Would appreciate your guidance.

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Hi,
In answer to your query, I have no record of who married William Watkins, but, will check your 2 options, Ann Pitt and Ann Butler.
Also you said you are a "decendant of Thomas WATKINS via Richard Kear WATKINS c1854", as Richard Kear Watkins is my Great Grandfather and his youngest son Albert is my Grandfather, who are your grand parents ?

Thanks,
Gary

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http://www.forum.forest-of-dean.net/index.php?mode=thread&id=8525

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Quote Brian Watkins, Lincoln-

Here are a few details > William Watkins bapt nov 1817 m Lucy Hawkins feb 1838
issue - Henry 1838, Thomas 1841, Charles 1844, William 1846, George, 'my g't grandfather' 1848 & John 1851

My descent is from John, as per the link Slowhands has posted in previous message. If Brian would like any info on John's family and his descendants let me know.

Simone x

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Simone, Thanks for your input, however, through every fault of my own,and
misguided as I was at the time I posted the wrong info, in fact my 3x great
grandfather was John Watkins c1821 West Dean & NOT William as I at first
thought; I might add that I've been chasing William for about 3 years until
I recently came across the mistake. (I think I said "bless it") or words to
that effect.

Apologies for wasting your time, in the meantime may I wish you a very merry
Christmas & a good new-year.
Brian W

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Thanks for replying Brian.

You haven't wasted my time at all!

I too went off on the wrong line a few years back:( so I know what that feels like. Luckily I didn't get very far. Thank heavens for Slowhands and Dave!
Too many Watkins with same names born in same areas at about the same time!!

I'm sure we're probably connected in some way somewhere! lol

Merry Christmas!
All the best for 2008, hope you demolish any brick walls you may have!

Simone x

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