1876 - late registration of illegitimate birth (RHODES)

Hi
My ancestor Frank RHODES was born 8.5.76 to Hannah RHODES (widow) at Abbey Street, Flaxley. The birth was not registered until August, well outside the normal time window. Jane HERBERT is listed as informant. The 'Rules' suggest that she would have had to be a witness at the birth such as a midwife and that late registration would have been subject to a fine. Also that fathers do not have to be identified on the certificate in the case of bastard children.

So my questions are :
- does anyone knows anything about Jane HERBERT of Flaxley around 1876
- does the delayed registration suggest any resources which I can research to try and identify possible father (eg. if she was trying to get father to marry her ....)

The family do not seem to have had any children baptised but had links with the baptist churches. (Actually Hannah and her husband dont seem to have had many children either with long gaps between offspring - burials also not found)

Thanks for any pointers.

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There is a Jane Herbert living in Abbey Street on the 1871 Census.

First Name Jane
Last Name Herbert
Birth Year 1811
Age 60
Birth Place England
Birth Town
Birth County Gloucestershire
Gender Female
Relationship To Head of Household Mother-In-Law
Occupation
Condition
Street Abbey Street
Parish Flaxley
Town
City
County Gloucestershire
Country England
Ecclesiastical District
Enumeration District 33
Municipal Ward
Parliamentary Borough
Registration District Westbury on Severn
Category Census, Land & Surveys
Record set 1871 England, Wales & Scotland Census
Collections from Great Britain
Archive Reference RG10
Folio 35
Page 33
Piece Number 2603

I don't know if this is the same one. Age a bit out!

Record_ID: 101273
Entry_Number:
Year: 1904
Month: Jan
Day: 23
Surname: HERBERT
Forenames: Jane
Residence: Abbey St[reet] Cinderford
Age_at_death: 87 Y[ears]
Officiating_Minister:
Event: Burial
Cause_of_death:
Memoranda:
Notes: Entry followed by 0 and ED / WoS
Register_Reference: PA 85/3
Page_No:
Parish_Chapel: Cinderford Baptist
Soundex: H616

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Further info abt this particular Jane Herbert (Abbey Street) may be found within this old thread, suggest track down to the third-last post entitled "Elijah & Jane Herbert - 1851 Census" by Jim Ashton, May 12, 2012. Unfortunately Jean Herbert hasn't posted on the forum since 2014, but Jim is still active and might be able to assist further.

http://forum.forest-of-dean.net/index.php?mode=thread&id=2648#p2654

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By the way, in case you were not aware, Cinderford town was only generally known as such after the late 1800s, the growing "new" town was known as Woodside before that, or even Bilson Woodside & Littledean Woodside. This was when the older more "random" housing at Hinders/Dockham, St Whites, Cinderford Bridge(St Johns) became joined by infilling streets such as Abbey Street c1860. At this time this "side" of modern-day Cinderford was a detached part of ancient Flaxley Parish, despite being a couple of miles west of the Parish Church at Flaxley, and C11th Flaxley Abbey. I believe this was the case until Cinderford's second C of E Church (St Stephen) was built c1890, at the top of the town adjacent to Abbey Street, and the Parish of Woodside was created. In even later Census' the whole of Cinderford including Woodside and Bilson etc became known as East Dean. To add further possible confusion, perhaps, Abbey Street is itself connected to Flaxley Street.

Hoping this helps if by any chance you were wondering about the apparently changing geography thro' the Censuses. That said, apologies, as I see that despite being a newcomer to the forum you've been registered a few years now, sorry for my probably telling you what you already know. Even worse, (it's been a long day here...) I've only just this minute realised you and Jim share the Ashton surname, do you know each other off-forum ? I'm off for a lie-down now.., atb Jeff.

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Thanks both! I love a good story attached to the history and Charwoman turned midwife, living to a ripe old age after her husband was apparently transported for sheep stealing, certainly fits that bill!

Used to be quite active on FOD history too but find it more difficult to find old forum records than i used to (has the system changed?) so thanks for the pointers.

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"Charwoman turned midwife"

The Office of Midwife – Some Historical Background

http://sites.nursing.manchester.ac.uk/ukchnm/midwives/officeofmidwife.pdf

Women have helped each other in childbirth from time immemorial; indeed, until relatively recently such attendance remained a female domain in which men very rarely played a part. Generally the midwife was the senior woman in the community, commonly a married woman or widow who had herself given birth.

Jane Herbert lived in the same road as your Hannah, so was probably the woman that was usually sent for!

Regards
Chris

NB I had a look at the the British Newspaper Archives but could not find any mention of Hannah or the Parish taking anyone to court to obtain maintenance for Frank. It could possibly be that she was able to manage financially; or had help from her family, or couldn't say for sure who the father was. Or perhaps she did not want to wash her dirty linen in public. Maybe the father admitted paternity and made a private arrangement with Hannah to provide for his son. We'll probably never know!

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Thanks again Chris - particularly for a quick newspaper search - how and where do you go about this (and which part of the newspaper?)

I realised that a midwife at that time would be an experienced woman (and having had 5 of her own children and helped with a few of her daughters births she would have been experienced) - just found it amusing that she changed her 'occupation' accordingly.

Interesting ideas regarding why no paternity suit. Think her family were reasonably well off (Masons/ builders) so no doubt helped. Wonder if she took in a 'lodger' when husband died! Shortly after the birth Hannah left the area with her children and brother and sister and relocated to Wigan Lancashire. In 1879 she remarried a Wigan widower.

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Hi again

The British Newspaper Archive is a subscription site but I gather that you can get free access at some Libraries.

http://www.britishnewspaperarchive.co.uk/search/results/1870-01-01/1879-12-31?sortorder...

You can just search under the name and county (less information tends to produce more hits). I have a sub to Gene's Reunited which just enables me to see a few lines of the article.

Is this one of your Rhodes?

Gloucester Journal
Gloucester Journal Gloucestershire, England

4 Nov 1876
LIQUIDATIONS

S. From Friday's Gazette, Oct Rhodes, Meend. Flaxfey, Gloucestershire, builder, and W. Rhodes, Littledeao, Wood-ide, Eastde «n, Glumcestersbiie also separate creditors of C. Rhodes ; also separate .creditors of W. Rhodes Miltou and Curuow, Haberfield-crescent

View article
Type: Article

I'm afraid the OCR (Optical Character Recognition) has fun trying to read some of the words from the paper hence the gobbledy-gook.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Optical_character_recognition

Perhaps some kind soul has a subscription to the BNA and wouldn't mind posting the full article for you?

Regards
Chris

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The entry in the Gloucester Journal is taken from the London Gazette which can be searched freely. This link will take you to the page: https://www.thegazette.co.uk/London/issue/24376/page/5747

Mike

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Thank you Mike - much obliged!

Chris

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As Chris says the best online resource for old Newspapers is the BNA site, it can be searched for free to gain a degree of limited info, but a subscription is needed to gain the full details. That said, by just signing-up with a username new users get a few free downloads with no strings attached. This includes being able to download images of the actual newspaper pages themselves, not just the error-prone OCR transcriptions. For our area the Gloster Citizen and Journal is on their database, but don't forget to look-up adjoining Monmouthshire and Herefordshire too (be aware this county doesn't come under the BNA's "South West" filter - always best to filter down the results).

As well as it's own website, the BNA can be accessed via it's sister company GenesReunited, and also FindMyPast. I'm unsure if this is still true, but when I used the FMP route a year or two ago, it didn't offer access to ALL the BNA records, certainly not their most recent ones c1950s. If you're as tight-fisted as I am, the following links also include my method of using the BNA site; ie search it for free and at leisure & record probable hits, signup for the various websites newsletters, and when the regular special offers appear then use this to "blitz" the website and so gain maximum access in the shortest so least costly time.

None of these sites offer access to the Dean Forest Mercury, but it's archives can be searched for free from the microfiche at Cinderford library.
http://forum.forest-of-dean.net/index.php?id=34751

Much more info and hints on searching old Newspapers in these prior threads;
http://www.forest-of-dean.net/fodmembers/index.php?mode=thread&id=45677
which itself references http://forum.forest-of-dean.net/index.php?id=36879

There is also the excellent Welsh Newspapers site, which is entirely free to access and download, it often contains FoD stories so is always worth a look. Searching "Rhodes Cinderford" gives several references to the Baptist Church, some very detailed; also a Cinderford rugby player "clever left centre" Wm Rhodes c1906, clearly one of their best players, and a different Wm Rhodes c1874, see below. When searching the Welsh papers site it's often worth using the term "Dean Forest", which those papers often used instead of some of the lesser-known village placenames.
see http://forum.forest-of-dean.net/index.php?id=40632

"FOREST OF DEAN. CONVICTIONS UNDER THE ADULTERATION ACT, RAID UPON GROCERS.
At the Newnham petty sessions, yesterday, twenty-three of the district grocers were summoned by Superintendent Ohipp, under the second section of the Adulteration of Food Act, chap. 74, for selling certain mustard, which had been adulterated. The parties were Charles Lewis and John Bennett, Buardean; Samuel Harcombe and 0, Parnell, Littledean; Alfred Payne, Elton; Alfred Westbrook, Littledean; Wm. Simmonds, Geo. Wait, Ambrose Drew, Frederick Trotter and Wm Rhodes, of Cinderford Woodside; H.G. Gardiner, Abenhall: Oliver Preece and John Roberts, Mitcheldean; Eli Constance and Henry Hall, Longhope; Philip Jordan, Drybrook; Wm Headon and Charles Bailey, Newnham; Thos Cribber, Samuel Ford, and Geo. Morse. The Chairmau said the bench were dispoded to deal leniently with the several cases, and insomuch as they were the first summonses which had come before them under the Act, they proposed, in cases which were admitted, to adopt a nominal penalty of 4d and costs, as adopted at Coleford in similar cases. Mr Lewis, one of the defendants, complained to the Justices, and said it was a great hardship upon the grocers that the police had not previously gone round to the grocers and made them acquainted with what they intended to do. In the case of Ambrose Drew and Wm Trotter, these defendants were fined 5s and costs, and the summons of Eli Constance adjourned."

Cardiff Western Mail of 18th August 1874

http://newspapers.library.wales/view/4342754/4342760/58/wm.%20rhodes%20forest

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Oh this is a great snippet! Yes this seems to be the right William Rhodes (matched with other data) and Caleb is his cousin (son of Uncle Henry).

Again I need to research further as presumably if the gazette reported the insolvency notices held in Gloucester County Court, then they (or another resource) will have reported the outcome of 9.11.1876 (at 4pm precisely!)

Thanks for all your advice on the papers. I've not previously been successful referencing papers so these tips will help.

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Mike I havent been able (via my library access to BNA - doesnt seem to have same newspapers included) to see if this case was followed up later in November and the outcome reported. Couldnt ask you to check your sources sometime for me could I please???

I've noted in my records that he carried on living in the area but by the following census '91 I think he was in the workhouse :-(
Thanks
Melanie

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Hi Melanie, that's a shame your library BNA access isn't as good as it could be. I live near the main central Library for our London Borough, it's very large across six levels, they sent zillions refitting it last year, yet when I tried to access the FMP site I couldn't, they told me they'd not been allowed to renew the subscription due to cost cutting... But yes, when I had a short subscription of one fo the subscription websites a year or so ago it transpired that site (Genes Reunited or FMPast) didnt carry all the papers the main BNA site does. At least nowadays one can sign up to the main BNA site for just a month if one has home internet access, it used to be at least a year so much costlier.

That said, many many hours experience of my searching the BNA site has proven it can be very frustrating, I've spent ages in the past trying to re-find articles I KNOW are on there. One of the reasons is the OCR system; it only needs a glitch on the image (a crease, misprint or mispelling, and it won't find what seems very clear to the human eye, hence sometimes we need to search from another angle, perhaps trying a different name etc, such as Caleb say.
But the usual worst culprit is trying to add too much into the "search" box, less almost always gives more. It's far better to just search surnames only, especially as Rhodes is not a common name, while using the site's filters to narrow down the dates as close as possible to your target decade; also filter specific newspapers, in our case the Gloster Citizen and then, maybe, the weekly Gloster Journal - both often carry the exact same stories - altho the Journal is good for finding photos of C20th weddings etc. By only searching surnames I've often found other items apart from my initial targets, including discovering family members I had't previously known about. My searches today on the BNA site suggests your William is invariably reported as "Wm", I think to save typesetting effort, but rarely is it just "W" !
Finally, as I've posted elsewhere, if you have internet access at home but without the BNA etc subscription service, I suggest to first use the BNA site's free search facility from home, to find what looks likely hits for you, and note them down (I copy & paste or screenprint these hits onto word documents that I then take to the library etc on a flashmemory stick), as library time is often limited and their servers can be slow. This also means that as and when I'm sent a discount-access offer, I've already done the groundwork in advance.

Then again, as I've found a few times, in some cases the outcomes of legal cases and adjourned cases just didn't make the papers, sadly for us altho perhaps not our ancestors.

In case you havent seen them, here's a few hits for your William (I think) that I found earlier from the BNA free search; this shows the BNA search engine works in mysterious ways, I first searched including "Cinderford" as well as "Wm Rhodes", yet only found the first of these. On removing Cinderford, the others jumped to the top of the queue, yet they include the word Cinderford... !
I recommend for every search, always view as many pages of possible hits as far as you can, sometimes the order is rather odd and the good ones don't appear first ?. Keep checking that your filter settings (shown top left) have not changed themselves to show results in "Date(most recent)" order, instead of the much better "relevance" setting, this sometimes seems to happen by accident and with most frustrating effect.

"CINDERFORD
“... very numerous attendence of relatives, friends, and neighbours. The pall bearers were Messrs. T. B. Brain, Walter J. Brain, Wm. Rhodes ... ”
Saturday 08 September 1877 , Gloucester Journal"

“... CINDERFORD. Presentation. Mr. W. Frowen Rhodes, formerly postmaster at Cinderford, and one of the ... ”
Saturday 20 October 1877 , Gloucester Journal

.".. Gloucestershire Banking Company, Cinderford; by any Member of the Committee. W. HEANE, Esq., Chairman. LIST OF £ *. d. Mr. Wm. Rhodes. ... ”
Saturday 30 March 1878 , Gloucester Journal"

"CINDEHFOHD
“... were granted an interview with the members. Mr. Ambrose Brain introduced the deputation, which consisted of Messrs. Caleb Rhodes, Wm. ... ”
Saturday 01 March 1879 , Gloucester Journal"

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Melanie, you say you think he might be in the Workhouse by 1891, please clarify exactly who you're looking for, as I think I'm getting mixed-up ?. I thought you meant Wm Frowen Rhodes, but if this is his household it doesn't seem likely at all. Or do you mean Frank b1876 ?.
Sorry for being slow, but I usually get there in the end ! ;-)

Familysearch.org gives this Cinderford household, as you know;

1881 Woodside Road, Flaxley
Household Role Gender Age Birthplace
Thomas F Rhodes Head M 38 Grocer Draper & C. Cinderford (East Dean), Gloucestershire, England
Naomi Rhodes Wife F 38 Cinderford (East Dean), England
Wm F Rhodes Son M 14 Grocer Assistant. Cinderford (East Dean), England
Harry F Rhodes Son M 13 Cinderford (East Dean), England
Fanny E Rhodes Daughter F 11 Cinderford (East Dean), England
Emma F Rhodes Daughter F 9 Cinderford (East Dean), England
Walter E Rhodes Son M 6 Cinderford (East Dean), England
Rose M Rhodes Daughter F 4 Cinderford (East Dean), England
Susan B Rhodes Daughter F 2 Cinderford (East Dean), England
Tom C Rhodes Son M 6 M Cinderford (East Dean), England
Esther Holder Servant F 14 Cinderford (East Dean), England

1891 High Street, St Stephens, East Dean
Household Role Gender Age Birthplace
Thomas F Rhodes Head M 48 Grocer And Draper Postmaster. Gloucestershire, England
Naomi Rhodes Wife F 48 Gloucestershire, England
Harry J Rhodes Son M 23 Gloucestershire, England
Fanny E Rhodes Daughter F 21 Gloucestershire, England
Emma F Rhodes Daughter F 20 Gloucestershire, England
Walter E Rhodes Son M 16 Gloucestershire, England
Margaret R Rhodes Daughter F 14 Gloucestershire, England
Bessie S Rhodes Daughter F 12 Gloucestershire, England
Tom C Rhodes Son M 10 Gloucestershire, England
Catherine A Rhodes Daughter F 8 Gloucestershire, England
William E Rhodes Son M 6 Gloucestershire, England
Ellen Morgan Servant F 17 Gloucestershire, England

-----------

Searching for Frank and all "Rhodes born Cinderford 1870-1880";

1881 Census, Manchester Rd, Ince In Makerfield, Wigan, Lancashire.
Household Role Gender Age Birthplace
John Tabner Head M 55 Coal miner. Pemberton, Lancashire, England
Hannah Tabner Wife F 43 Cinderford, Gloucestershire, England
William Tabner Son M 23 Coal miner. Ince, Lancashire, England
Thomas Tabner Son M 21 Coal miner. Ince, Lancashire, England
Eliza Rhodes Daughter F 15 Cinderford, Gloucestershire, England
Annie Rhodes Daughter F 12 Cinderford, Gloucestershire, England
Mary Ann Tabner Daughter F 11 Ince, Lancashire, England
Susan Rhodes Daughter F 8 Cinderford, Gloucestershire, England
John Rhodes Son M 4 Cinderford, Gloucestershire, England

http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/LAN/InceinMakerfield

1901 Census, Manchester Rd, Ince In Makerfield, Wigan, Lancashire.
Household Role Gender Age Birthplace
John Daberner Head M 76 RETIRED COAL HEWER. Pemberton, Lancashire
Hannah Daberner Wife F 60 Cinderford, Gloucestershire
Frank Rhodes Step-Son COLLIERY LABOURER BELOW GROUND.M 24 Cinderford, Gloucestershire

Name Frank Rhodes
Event Type Census
Event Date 1911
County Lancashire
Parish Ince In Makerfield
Sub-District Hindley
Registration District Wigan
Gender Male
Age 34
Birthplace Cinderford, Gloucestershire
Record Type Household

NB Familysearch only gives me individuals, not whole Households, for 1911 Census...

Name William Frank Rhodes
Event Type Census
Event Date 1911
County Kent
Parish Ramsgate
Sub-District Ramsgate
Registration District Thanet
Gender Male
Age 44
Birthplace Cinderford, Gloucestershire
Record Type Household

1901 Census, Huddleston Road, Upper Holloway, Islington, London.
Household Role Gender Age Birthplace
Henry Roberts Head M 63 MANAGER TO CARRYING CO. Chertsey, Surrey
Emma F Roberts Wife F 56 Cinderford, Gloucestershire
Katherine S Roberts Daughter F 27 Cinderford, Gloucestershire
Edgar H Roberts Son M 25 Cinderford, Gloucestershire
Tom R Roberts Son M 21 Cinderford, Gloucestershire
Esther L Roberts Daughter F 23 Cinderford, Gloucestershire
Harry C Roberts Son M 18 Ryde, Isle Of Wight
Walter E Rhodes Nephew M 26 CLERK TO CARRYING CO. Cinderford, Gloucestershire
Edgar A Smith Cousin M 22 London
Ella S Sherwood Visitor F 68 Newcastle Under Lyne
Bertha J Annett Servant F 23 Cinderford, Gloucestershire

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Who's this Wm Rhodes born "Glos" abt 1877 ??.
Probably irrelevant, Familysearch shows plenty of Rhodes in Bristol area.

1891 Census, Rabbit Burrows, Fishponds, Stapleton, Glos
Household Role Gender Age Birthplace

Francis Ward Head M 52 Labourer General. Norfolk, England
Louisa Ward Wife F 33 Gloucestershire, England
William Rhodes Boarder M 14 Shoe Makers Apprentice Gloucestershire, England
John Flynn Boarder M 14 Gloucestershire, England
Thomas Wheeler Boarder M 14 Gloucestershire, England
Albert Harwood Boarder M 13 Bristol, Gloucestershire, England

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Searching for Frank and all "Rhodes born Cinderford 1870-1880";

1901 Census, Manchester Rd, Ince In Makerfield, Wigan, Lancashire.
Household Role Gender Age Birthplace
John Daberner Head M 76 RETIRED COAL HEWER. Pemberton, Lancashire
Hannah Daberner Wife F 60 Cinderford, Gloucestershire
Frank Rhodes Step-Son COLLIERY LABOURER BELOW GROUND.M 24 Cinderford, Gloucestershire

Name Frank Rhodes
Event Type Census
Event Date 1911
County Lancashire
Parish Ince In Makerfield
Sub-District Hindley
Registration District Wigan
Gender Male
Age 34
Birthplace Cinderford, Gloucestershire
Record Type Household

NB Familysearch only gives me individuals, not whole Households, for 1911 Census...

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Despite FreeBMD showing there were a considerable number of "Frank Rhodes" in Lancashire throughout the years, there's just ONE in the Wigan BMD District, and given the date wrt the above Census', I wouldn't be surprised if it's your Frank;

Surname First name(s) Age District Vol Page
Marriages Jun 1906 (>99%)
ASPINALL Jane Wigan 8c 75
Gratton Isaac George Wigan 8c 75
Jenkinson Margaret Wigan 8c 75
Rhodes Frank Wigan 8c 75

http://www.ukbmd.org.uk/genuki/reg/districts/wigan.html

So now revisiting the 1911 Census on Familysearch we find;

Name Margaret Rhodes
Event Type Census
Event Date 1911
County Lancashire
Parish Ince In Makerfield
Sub-District Hindley
Registration District Wigan
Gender Female
Age 36
Birthplace Teitt Green Orrell, Lancashire
Record Type Household

Please can someone confirm if this is indeed the same household as Frank's, everything seems to fit nicely.. ?

Their children ?

Name May Jenkinson Rhodes
Event Type Census
Event Date 1911
County Lancashire
Parish Ince In Makerfield
Sub-District Hindley
Registration District Wigan
Gender Female
Age 8
Birthplace Higher Ince, Lancashire
Record Type Household

(Second name suggests born out of wedlock, mother's maiden name Jenkinson ?, she was aged 3 when Margaret married Frank)

Surname Given Name District Volume Page Transcribers
Births Jun 1903
Jenkinson May Wigan 8c 123 Sukie

Name Thomas Rhodes
Event Type Census
Event Date 1911
County Lancashire
Parish Ince In Makerfield
Sub-District Hindley
Registration District Wigan
Gender Male
Age 4
Birthplace Higher Ince, Lancashire
Record Type Household

Name William Rhodes
Event Type Census
Event Date 1911
County Lancashire
Parish Ince In Makerfield
Sub-District Hindley
Registration District Wigan
Gender Male
Age 3
Birthplace Higher Ince, Lancashire
Record Type Household

Name John Rhodes
Event Type Census
Event Date 1911
County Lancashire
Parish Ince In Makerfield
Sub-District Hindley
Registration District Wigan
Gender Male
Age 0
Birthplace Higher Ince, Lancashire
Record Type Household

" Ince, called Ince in Makerfield to distinguish it from Ince Blundell in the same hundred, lies immediately to the east of Wigan, of which it is a suburb,...
The population in 1901 was 21,262, including Platt Bridge. The general aspect is unpleasing, it being a typical black country in the heart of the coal-mining area. The flat surface, covered with a complete network of railways, has scarcely a green tree to relieve the monotony of the bare wide expanses of apparently waste land, much of it covered with shallow 'flashes' of water, the result of the gradual subsidence of the ground as it is mined beneath. Needless to say no crops are cultivated. All the energies of the populace are employed in the underground mineral wealth of the district, Ince being famous for cannel and other coal.

The northern part of the township merges into the town of Wigan, the principal features being huge cotton mills and warehouses, crowding the banks of the canals and River Douglas, which here degenerates into a grimy ditch, with never a bush or tree to shade its muddy banks."
From http://www.british-history.ac.uk/vch/lancs/vol4/pp101-106

Ref Margaret born abt 1875 at "Teitt Green, Orrell". I think this should perhaps read Kitt Green, which is between Wigan and Orrell, and the same general area as Pemberton, mentioned on husband Frank's 1901 Census transcript ?.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pemberton,_Greater_Manchester

Familysearch gives these near-perfect fits;

1901 Census, Belle Green Lane, Ince In Makerfield, Wigan, Lancashire.
Household Role Gender Age Birthplace
William Jenkinson Head M 52 COAL HEWER Cleaton, Cumberland
Jane Jenkinson Wife F 63 Orrell, Lancashire
Margaret Jenkinson Daughter F 26 COTTON SPINNER Orrell, Lancashire
Peter Fishwick Grand Son M 6 Pemberton, Lancashire

1891 Census, Brook Street, Ince In Makerfield, Wigan, Lancashire.
Household Role Gender Age Birthplace
William Jenkerson Head M 42 Coal Miner Cumberland, England
Jane Jenkerson Wife F 53 Lancashire, England
Maggie Jenkerson Daughter F 16 Cotton Spinner Lancashire, England

1881 Census, Taylors Sqre Of New Hall St, Ince In Makerfield, Wigan, Lancashire.
Household Role Gender Age Birthplace
William Jenkinson Head M 30 Coal miner. Cleaton, Cumberland, England
Jane Jenkinson Wife F 43 Pemberton, Lancashire, England
Thomas Winstanley (Jenkinson) Stepson M 20 Coal miner. Pemberton, Lancashire, England
William Winstanley (Jenkinson) Stepson M 17 Coal miner. Pemberton, Lancashire, England
Margaret Jenkinson Daughter F 6 Pemberton, Lancashire, England

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GR 1911 Census, No. 4 Union Street, Belle Green Lane, Higher Ince, Near Wigan

Mr Frank Rhodes, Head, 34, Married, Coal miner hewer , b. Cinderford, Gloucestershire
Margaret, Wife, 36, married, Kitt Green, Lancs.
Mary Jenkinson, Daur, 8, Single, Higher Ince, Lancs
Thomas, Son, 4, Single, Higher Ince, Lancs
William, Son, 3, Single, Higher Ince, Lancs
John, Son, 10m, Single, Higher Ince, Lancs

5 years the marriage, 4 children, 4 alive

4 rooms in the house

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Thanks Mike !.
As much as I enjoy the "challenge" of driving the Familysearch site, it can take a while, tonight's one of those nights I wish I could renew my Ancestry subs.... shame it was "improved"..

But where was Frank in 1891, was he in the Workhouse ?
Suggestions welcome please, thanks.

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Without reading all the posts on this subject - this could be Frank in 1891
living in Ince in Makerfield, Wigan, Lancs, mother Hannah Taberner (48), stepfather John Taberner (60), Frank Rhodes, Stepson (14), colliery labourer, born Gloucestershire. Found on Ancestry, haven't looked in fmp yet.

Jeff - a lot of comments about new Ancestry but I am an editor on a family tree and have found it very easy to find and enter information. Sorry you did not find it so.
Sheila

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Hi Sheila, hope you're well ?.
Yes that 1891 Census is indeed this family, thanks.

Thanks for your kind comments re my problems with the new Ancestry site, I'm genuinely very pleased you're happy with it, long may that continue. It may be that the improvements have made it easier to find records, which is great. I can only speak from my experience, which does seem to echo that of a great many other experienced Ancestry researchers worldwide. I've only been using it for about 5 years, but in that time I have spent many hundreds of hours plotting several extensive and accurate family trees, and I've often corrected and contributed toward's the site's records and accuracy. Yet I now find that many of the records I had attached to "my" trees, plus my own detailed notes, have in many cases being utterly ruined or removed from these trees. The site is less user-friendly and over-complicated to operate in some key ways, especially when plotting trees as most users want, and the foul new colour scheme genuinely gives me headaches just looking at it.
However, as said, I'm glad that you are happy with it and I hope many others are too. I'm always happy to see improvments, but I'm not a believer in "fixing" things that are not broken, nevermind wholesale changes for changes' sake. They clearly forced an unproven system onto their paying customers whilst it was at early Beta stage at best, with far too many glitches. They hadn't consulted their users as to what we wanted, then determinedly ignored polite and sensible comments from well-meaning and knowledgable users, and now have the gall to publically but very-belatedly "thank" us all for effectively doing their product development for them. That said, I see the new site is still misleading and misdirecting users; I genuinely fear for people less knowledgable than yourself, I think a lot of FH newcomers are going to create "interesting", "entertaining" but wholly often inaccurate trees. Sorry, but I'm firmly convinced these changes were made purely for the short-term benefit of the owners' purses, and not for the benefit of it's users or genealogy as a whole.

Not just me
http://www.forest-of-dean.net/fodmembers/index.php?mode=thread&id=46379
http://www.sitejabber.com/reviews/www.ancestry.com
http://www.thepetitionsite.com/en-gb/600/803/575/save-ancestrycom-classic/
etc
Rant over, I'll try not to mention it in future.

Wishing you continued success with your researches, thank Heaven for great sites such as this one.
Best wishes, Jeff.

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8631 views

Thanks all. This is indeed my ancestor and much of the information I have as Frank Rhodes who married Margaret Jenkinson was my paternal grandads father.
As I have been doing this family history lark on and off for about 30 years now I was lucky enough to interview him and gather lots of memories from him. Unlike many of the older generation he did have recollection of family names and vague relationships and these were invaluable in tracing the links from Lancashire to the Forest of Dean in the first place.
However, that was my first stumbling block as the first line most people trace is the family name and I only got back to Frank to find he's illegitimate and we're not really Rhodes'.
Never mind, I thought, I'll still trace the Rhodes line - only to get back just a couple more generations to find the Rhodes ancestor was an interloper the FOD and I cant prove the link to probable parents in Nottinghamshire.
These 2 'challenges' of my tree (Franks possible real father, and the family/ home town of Thomas Rhodes born c 1780 Nottinghamshire - have a strong suspect but no proof) are readdressed every few years and every time I gather a few more clue-lets with the help/pointers of people such as yourselves (additional eyes/ideas so helpful to uncover different angles).
And if anyone is working on Rhodes in FOD at some stage in the future I hope to be able to help them as much as I've been helped!

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8590 views

Lots of interesting information here thanks Jeff and I will follow up the strays in London and Bristol - dont know about them. Children of the uncles etc.

The William Rhodes I meant that had ended up in the workhouse was the William that you highlighted had gone to court for bankruptcy as a builder with Caleb Rhodes. The newspaper article was 1876, he was living with his wife still in '81, she died a few months later and by the following census '91 I've been told he is found in the Bristol city Workhouse (listed as 57 born Coleford, mason) - have to confess I havent double checked this to make sure its the same Wm Rhodes as he's a relative to an ancestor rather than direct line.

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8557 views

The William Rhodes I meant that had ended up in the workhouse was the William that you highlighted had gone to court for bankruptcy as a builder with Caleb Rhodes. The newspaper article was 1876, he was living with his wife still in '81, she died a few months later and by the following census '91 I've been told he is found in the Bristol city Workhouse (listed as 57 born Coleford, mason) - have to confess I havent double checked this to make sure its the same Wm Rhodes as he's a relative to an ancestor rather than direct line.

Hi Melanie,
Family search does indeed give this hit, which as you say may well be the Workhouse altho need to see the rest of this Census page.

Name William Rhodes
Event Type Census
Event Date 1891
County Gloucestershire
Parish Stapleton
Ecclesiastical Parish FISHPONDS
Registration District Barton Regis
Gender Male
Age 51
Marital Status Widower
Occupation Mason
Relationship to Head of Household Inmate
Birth Year (Estimated) 1840
Birthplace Coleford, Gloucestershire, England
Page Number 29
Registration Number RG12
Piece/Folio 1993/ 125

This address rather fits this finding I posted earlier, which I thought might be irrelevant, but it seems not;

1891 Census, Rabbit Burrows, Fishponds, Stapleton, Glos
Household Role Gender Age Birthplace
Francis Ward Head M 52 Labourer General. Norfolk, England
Louisa Ward Wife F 33 Gloucestershire, England
William Rhodes Boarder M 14 Shoe Makers Apprentice Gloucestershire, England
John Flynn Boarder M 14 Gloucestershire, England
Thomas Wheeler Boarder M 14 Gloucestershire, England
Albert Harwood Boarder M 13 Bristol, Gloucestershire, England

This looks typical of a big city workhouse, includes a substantial Hospital aka Asylum, the excellent Workhouses site includes this detailed history of this establishment.
http://www.workhouses.org.uk/Bristol/

It also includes the previous 1881 Census in full which shows it's size by the sheer numbers and types of staff. This 1881 includes the following names, but frustratingly no hint as to their birthplace;

1881 Census, Bristol City Workhouse, Stapleton, Gloucester, England
Charlotte RHODES, age 7, Female, Inmate, Scholar.
Matilda RHODES, age 10, Female, Inmate, Scholar.
William RHODES, age 6, Male, Inmate, Scholar.

http://www.workhouses.org.uk/Bristol/Bristol1881.shtml

Is this William the shoemaker's apprentice in the 1891 Census, wasn't shoemaking one of the trades the Workhouses often taught their young inmates ?

----

More detailed illustrations & maps here (which enlarge when clciked upon)
http://www.brh.org.uk/site/articles/eastville-stapleton-workhouses/

Glad to see there don't seem to be any Rhodes there by the 1901 Census.
http://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?uidh=000&rank=1&new=1&msT=1&am...

==============

Ref your mention of Caleb, searching him on the BNA site gives a few mentions, this may turnout to be the most interesting ?

WESTHURY-ON-SEVERN RURAL SANITARY AUTHORITY
“... eonsequenco of an appeal by Mr. Caleb Rhodes against a decision of tho Board that the building cf which he was manager and let tho ... ”
Saturday 05 March 1892 , Gloucester Citizen

“... an appeal by Mr. Caleb Rhodes against a decision of the Board that the. building of which he was the manager and let to the Salvation ... ”
Saturday 12 March 1892 , Gloucester Journal ,

Other hits suggest he was known as Caleb HENRY Rhodes ?

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8625 views

Excellent - I agree with the probable links. Thanks. Am away now for a few days but will get back to this on my return.
M

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8548 views

This 1881 includes the following names, but frustratingly no hint as to their birthplace;

1881 Census, Bristol City Workhouse, Stapleton, Gloucester, England
Charlotte RHODES, age 7, Female, Inmate, Scholar.
Matilda RHODES, age 10, Female, Inmate, Scholar.
William RHODES, age 6, Male, Inmate, Scholar.

http://www.workhouses.org.uk/Bristol/Bristol1881.shtml

Is this William the shoemaker's apprentice in the 1891 Census, wasn't shoemaking one of the trades the Workhouses often taught their young inmates ?

----

Ref the aforementioned Rhodes children in the Bristol Workhouse in 1881, needs more work but I think it's this family, from Familysearch;

1871 St Augustine, Bristol, Gloucestershire, England
Household Role Gender Age Birthplace
George Rhodes Head M 26 House Painter. Bristol, Gloucestershire
Matilda Rhodes Wife F 26 Machinist. Bath, Somersetshire
Matilda Rhodes Daughter F 1 Bristol, Gloucestershire
Ada Rhodes Niece F 9 Bristol, Gloucestershire

This is only sign of Charlotte I can find apart from 1881 Census ?
Surname First name(s) Age District Vol Page
Births Mar 1873 (>99%)
RHODES Charlotte Amelia Bristol 6a 19

Unusually Familysearch doesn't have her Baptism, to prove her parents' names, whereas her siblings are all there..?

eg this definitely looks like young Wm wrt 1881/1891 Census.
Name William Henry Rhodes
Event Type Christening
Event Date 11 Nov 1874
Event Place Bristol, St Augustine the Less, Gloucestershire, England
Father's Name George Rhodes
Mother's Name Matilda Rhodes
### CONT'D BOTTOM

-----------

Surname First name(s) Age District Vol Page
Marriages Dec 1868 (>99%)
Bishop Matilda Bristol 6a 123
Rhodes George Bristol 6a 123

Sadly wife & mother Matilda dies just before the 1881 Census;
Name Matilda Rhodes
Event Type Death
Registration Quarter Oct-Nov-Dec
Registration Year 1880
Registration District Barton Regis
County Gloucestershire
Event Place Barton Regis, Gloucestershire, England
Age (available after 1866) 36
Birth Year (Estimated) 1844
Volume 6A
Page 110
Line Number 2

Leaving George alone, not in a well-paid job, so forced to place his children in Parish Care ?.

Name George Rhodes
Event Type Census
Event Date 1881
Event Place Bristol St James (In), Gloucestershire, England
Registration District Bristol
Residence Note Lewins Mead
Gender Male
Age 35
Marital Status (Original) Widower
Occupation Painter
Relationship to Head of Household Lodger Head
Birth Year (Estimated) 1846
Birthplace Bristol, Gloucestershire, England
Page Number 6
Registration Number RG11
Piece/Folio 2474/64
Affiliate Record Type Household

And soon after... !

Deaths Mar 1885 (>99%)
Rhodes George 38 Barton R. 6a 135

George's parents show no obvious FoD links ?

1861 Park Hill, Bristol St Michael, Gloucestershire, England
Household Role Gender Age Birthplace
William Rhodes Head M 48 Bristol St Pauls,
Elizabeth Rhodes Wife F 53 Clifton, Gloucestershire
Elizabeth Rhodes Daughter F 21 Bristol St Michaels,
William Rhodes Son M 19 Bristol St Michaels,
George Rhodes Son M 16 Bristol St Michaels

1851 2nd Lane From The Church Yard Commencing From Lower Church Lane, Bristol St Michael, Glos
Household Role Gender Age Birthplace
William Rhodes Head M 39 Painter & Decorator. Bristol St Paul'S,
Elizabeth Rhodes Wife F 43 Bristol Clifton,
Eliza Rhodes Daughter F 12 Bristol St Michael'S,
William Rhodes Son M 9 Bristol St Michael'S,
George Rhodes Son M 7 Bristol St Michael'S,
Henry Smart Step Son M 16 Bristol St Michael'S
Mary Cottle Servant F 21 St Georges, Gloucestershire

---------

### The only Workhouse child I can find later is William, still no clear FoD links...

Surname First name(s) District Vol Page
Marriages Sep 1895 (>99%)
Emary Eliza Ann Barton R. 6a 300
Rhodes William Henry Barton R. 6a 300

1901 St Werburgh's, Park Road, Bristol, Gloucestershire, England
Household Role Gender Age Birthplace
William Rhodes Head M 29 Bootmaker. Fishponds, Gloucestershire
Eliza A Rhodes Wife F 30 Stafford, Staffordshire
Harold E Rhodes Son M 5 Bristol, Gloucestershire
William G Rhodes Son M 3 Bristol, Gloucestershire
Stanley H Bick Nurse Child M 0 Bristol, Gloucestershire

====================

So clearly it looks like this particular line of enquiry is not relevant to your line, ah well !?

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8619 views

Hi Melanie,
Family search does indeed give this hit, which as you say may well be the Workhouse altho need to see the rest of this Census page.

Name William Rhodes
Event Type Census
Event Date 1891
County Gloucestershire
Parish Stapleton
Ecclesiastical Parish FISHPONDS
Registration District Barton Regis
Gender Male
Age 51
Marital Status Widower
Occupation Mason
Relationship to Head of Household Inmate
Birth Year (Estimated) 1840
Birthplace Coleford, Gloucestershire, England
Page Number 29
Registration Number RG12
Piece/Folio 1993/ 125

Cannot find his Birth in GlosBMD, presumably as he's actually born before 1837;

Record_ID: 9275
Entry_Number: 1120
Year: 1834
Month: Oct
Day: 1
Parents_Surname: RHODES
Child_Forenames: William
Fathers_Forenames: Thomas
Mothers_Forenames: Hannah
Mothers_Surname:
Residence: Coleford
Occupation: Mason
Officiating_Minister: H I Poole
Event: Baptism
Memoranda:
Notes:
Register_Reference: P93 IN 1/5
Page_Number: 2
Parish_Chapel: Coleford
Soundex: R320

Record_ID: 4190
Entry_Number: 147
Year: 1854
Month: Oct
Day: 29
Grooms_Surname: RHODES
Grooms_Forenames: William
Grooms_Age: 20
Groom_Condition: Bachelor
Grooms_Occupation: Mason
Grooms_Residence: Cinderford
Grooms_Fathers_Surname: Rodes
Grooms_Fathers_Forenames: Thomas
Grooms_Fathers_Occupation: Mason
Brides_Surname: CRITCHLLEY
Brides_Forenames: Jane
Brides_Age: 23
Brides_Condition: Spinster
Brides_Occupation:
Brides_Residence:
Brides_Fathers_Surname: Critchlley
Brides_Fathers_Forenames: Charles
Brides_Fathers_Occupation: Stone Cutter
Licence_or_Banns: Banns
Date_of_Banns:
Signature_or_Mark: Both Signed
Witness_1: James Critchley
Witness_2: Emma Roberts
Other_Witnesses:
Officiating_Minister: Henry G. Nicholls
Event: Marriage
Memoranda:
Notes: No Residence for Bride stated
Register_Reference: P109 IN 1/6
Page_Number: 74
Parish_Chapel: Drybrook
Soundex_Groom: R320
Soundex_Bride: C632

1861 St John, Littledean Hill, East Dean, Westbury on Severn, Glos.
Household Role Gender Age Birthplace
William Rhodes Head M 26 Shoe Maker. Coleford, Gloucestershire
Jane Rhodes Wife F 29 Coleford, Gloucestershire
William Rhodes Son M 6 Coleford, Gloucestershire
Alfred Rhodes Son M 10M Coleford, Gloucestershire

Death Details
Surname Given Names Age Year Died District Register Entry
RHODES William 13 1868 Westbury on Severn, Newnham 15 79

1871 East Dean, Westbury on Severn, Glos.
Household Role Gender Age Birthplace
William Rhodes Head M 36 Mason. Coleford, Gloucestershire
Jane Rhodes Wife F 39 Coleford, Gloucestershire
Martin Rhodes Son M 6 Littledean, Gloucestershire
Ellen Rhodes Daughter F 2 Littledean, Gloucestershire

1881 East Dean, Westbury on Severn, Glos.
Household Role Gender Age Birthplace
William Rhodes Head M 64 Stone Mason. Coleford, Gloucestershire, England
Jane Rhodes Wife F 49 Coleford, Gloucestershire, England
Martin Rhodes Son M 16 Gen Lab. Littledean, Gloucestershire, England
Ellen Rhodes Daughter F 12 Littledean, Gloucestershire, England

Record_ID: 101160
Entry_Number:
Year: 1881
Month: Dec
Day: 24
Surname: RHODES
Forenames: Jane
Residence:
Age_at_death: 50 Y[ears]
Officiating_Minister:
Event: Burial
Cause_of_death:
Memoranda:
Notes: Entry followed by 0 and Newnham
Register_Reference: PA 85/3
Page_No:
Parish_Chapel: Cinderford Baptist
Soundex: R320

I'm unsure about Martin Rhodes' future as the various records seem to suggest there are two men of same name born same year in the Forest (ours and/is a Scowles miner), needs more work...

Marriage Details
Groom Surname Groom Forename Bride Surname Bride Forename District Parish Building Year Register Entry
WILLIAMS Thomas RHODES Ellen Forest of Dean Westbury-on-Severn (FoD) Register Office [Closed] 1890 9 108

1891 St Stephens, Wesley Road, East Dean, Glos.
Household Role Gender Age Birthplace
Thomas Williams Head M 24 General Labourer. Monmouthshire, England
Ellen Williams Wife F 22 Gloucestershire, England

1901 Clearwell Meend, St Peters, West Dean, Glos.
Household Role Gender Age Birthplace
Thomas Williams Head M 36 LABOURER ON TURNFUKE RD. Clearwell, Gloucestershire
Ellen Williams Wife F 33 West Dean, Gloucestershire
Kate Williams Daughter F 13 West Dean, Gloucestershire
Birt Williams Son M 10 Clearwell, Gloucestershire
Frank Williams Son M 6 Clearwell, Gloucestershire
Dorothy Williams Daughter F 4 Clearwell, Gloucestershire
James Williams Son M 4 Clearwell, Gloucestershire
Ethel Williams Daughter F 2 Clearwell, Gloucestershire
Mabel Williams Daughter F 0 Clearwell, Gloucestershire
George Watkins Boarder M 17 COAL MINER, Clearwell, Gloucestershire

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8739 views

Record_ID: 9275
Entry_Number: 1120
Year: 1834
Month: Oct
Day: 1
Parents_Surname: RHODES
Child_Forenames: William
Fathers_Forenames: Thomas
Mothers_Forenames: Hannah
Mothers_Surname:
Residence: Coleford
Occupation: Mason
Officiating_Minister: H I Poole
Event: Baptism
Memoranda:
Notes:
Register_Reference: P93 IN 1/5
Page_Number: 2
Parish_Chapel: Coleford
Soundex: R320

1851 Bilson Green, Westbury on Severn, Glos.
Household Role Gender Age Birthplace
Thomas Rhodes Head M 40 Stone Mason. Coleford, Gloucestershire
Hannah Rhodes Wife F 40 Coleford, Gloucestershire
William Rhodes Son M 16 Stone Mason. Coleford, Gloucestershire
Thomas Rhodes Son M 13 Newland, Gloucestershire
Luke Rhodes Son M 11 Newland, Gloucestershire
Mary Rhodes Daughter F 8 Newland, Gloucestershire

1861 Little Deans Hill, East Dean, Westbury on Severn, Glos.
Household Role Gender Age Birthplace
Thomas Rhodes Head M 50 Stone mason. Alford, Gloucestershire
Hannah Rhodes Wife F 50 Alford, Gloucestershire
Luke Rhodes Son M 21 Alford, Gloucestershire
Mary Rhodes Daughter F 18 Alford, Gloucestershire
Emma Rhodes Granddaughter F 1 West Dean, Gloucestershire
Maria Cretchley Visitor F 22 Dressmaker. Coleford, Gloucestershire

See prior threads ref Maria & Bella Cretchley
http://www.forest-of-dean.net/fodmembers/index.php?id=34663

with Frowen links http://www.forest-of-dean.net/fodmembers/index.php?id=6996

BUT THIS MAY CAUSE CONFUSION !
HOPEFULLY IT IS OUR FAMILY AND THE AGES HAVE BEEN INCORRECTLY TRANSCRIBED ?

1871 Flaxley, Gloucestershire, England
Household Role Gender Age Birthplace
Thomas Rhodes Head M 33 Stonemason. Newland, Gloucestershire
Hannah Rhodes Wife F 31 Cinderford, Gloucestershire
Eliza Rhodes Daughter F 5 Cinderford, Gloucestershire
Annie Rhodes Daughter F 2 Cinderford, Gloucestershire
Bella Cretchley Visitor F 20 Coleford, Gloucestershire

Death Details
Surname Given Names Age Year Died District Register Entry
RHODES Thomas 69 1879 Westbury on Severn, Newnham 22 404

1881 East Dean, Westbury on Severn, Glos.
Household Role Gender Age Birthplace
Hannah Rhodes Head F 70 Widow. Coleford, Gloucestershire, England
William Lloyd Lodger M 17 Gen Lab. Lane End, Gloucestershire, England

Death Details
Surname Given Names Age Year Died District Register Entry
RHODES Hannah 73 1882 Westbury on Severn, Newnham 24 258

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8630 views

Hi Jeff,

According to the image on GR 1871 Census the ages are transcribed correctly. Bella Cretchley does not appear so I’m not sure why she has made her way into the list.

However, there is this:-

GR 1871 Census, Civil Parish of Newland, The Scowles

Thomas RHODES, Head, Mar, 60, Stonemason, b. Coleford, Glos.
Hannah, Wife, Mar, 60, Coleford, Glos.

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8551 views

Gloucester Citizen
Gloucester Citizen Gloucestershire, England

15 Jul 1878
District Intelligence

Reuben Potter, aha flg and proprietor of several horses and carts, charged on remand with stealing a mar*, t ing to Hannah Rhodes, a widow, living at . bury—Prosecutrix bought a mare from the soner, who afterwards advised her not to ° t, He was allowed

View article
Type: Article

---------------------------------------------------

I believe you mentioned a Baptist connection?

Gloucester Journal Gloucestershire, England

23 Dec 1876
CINDERFORD

the evening there was a public meeting in the chapel, presided over by the pastor. An introductory prayer was offered by Mr. Rhodes, the eldest deacon, in whose house some 30 years ago the Baptist cause at Cinderford first began. Addresses were delivered

View article
Type: Article

------------------------------------------------------

Gloucester Journal Gloucestershire, England

20 Oct 1877

CINDERFORD. Presentation. —Mr. W. Fro wen Rhodes, formerly postmaster at Cinderford, and one of the founders of the Baptisw cause in that town, was on Tuesday evening presented with keyless gold watch, gold chain, and an illuminated address. The presentation

View article
Type: Article

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8649 views

All of the Rhodes' in FOD in 1800s descend from Thomas Rhodes who came from Nottinghamshire and his wife Mary Frowen. So the William Frowen Rhodes of baptist church and grocer shop fame was his son (although probably not natural son) and uncle to my ancestor Thomas b1838.

I will follow up the stolen mare story as its nots clear from the OCR notes whether he was selling her a stolen mare (to assist her migration?) or had pinched hers. Either way an excellent find thank you!

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8637 views

This is a transcript of the newspaper report:
SHREWSBURY
CURIOUS CHARGE OF HORSE-STEALING - On Saturday, a man named Reuben Potter, a hawker and proprietor of several horses and carts, was charged on remand with stealing a mare, belonging to Hannah Rhodes, a widow, living at Westbury - Prosecutrix bought a mare from the prisoner, who afterwards advised her not to work it. He was allowed to try the mare in his own cart, but instead of returning it he left an almost valueless animal. - He was committed for trial.

He later appeared before the court and in the Eddowes’s Journal and General Advertiser of Shropshire dated 31 July 1878 it is reported that Reuben Potter was found guilty and sentenced to three months hard labour.

Mike

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8640 views

Hi Mike, thanks for that.
I'm afraid I'm feeling particularly dim today, so please can you help me ? Only after reading and re-reading this report I think I've got my head around it; am I right in thinking the first mare that Hannah bought was a good un, but then he conned her to allow him to try it in his own cart, so presumably drove it away from her and her home, where he switched it with a presumably similar-looking but different and worthless one ?.

atb and take care, Jeff.

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8633 views

Yes Big thanks!

That's my understanding too. Clever con trick! Wonder if she got her money back or the original mare or was left with the 'glue on legs'

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I am a direct descendent of Thomas Rhodes b abt 1788 (the interloper) who married Mary Frowen b abt 1774 and later Mary Danfield b abt 1789. I think we may have been in contact before at some time via either Ancestry or Genes reunited. I recall you were attempting to trace back the Rhodes line. From my own research I found that Frank Rhodes was illegitimate born to Hanna (Morgan) after the death of her husband Thomas b abt 1837 d 1873. Thomas was the brother of my direct ancestor William.

I was interested to learn of the information regarding William and his cousin Caleb, I have some evidence to indicate that they had been in business together as Masons. Whilst I had traced Williams whereabouts to a couple of workhouses; Bristol and latterly Newport, where he died; I hadn't until now found information regarding his demise and the road to poverty.

I'm aware Thomas Rhodes b1837 may have assisted his father in law William Morgan with the building of Cinderford Baptist Chapel. I found a photo of Thomas's gravestone on this very site.

I share your sense of frustration with regard to reaching dead ends, I suspect Franks biological father may never be found and he carried the name Rhodes as a consequence of Hanna's situation at the time. From what I've learned often the illegitimate child was often given the surname of the father as a middle name or at least carried the christian name on from the father. Frank wasn't a name used in my side of the Rhodes family, although note it comes up in the Frowen side.

As for the dead of of Thomas b 1788 who brought the Rhodes name to the Forest and the Scowles in particular I too have drawn a blank to actual evidence of his Nottinghamshire roots. Although I have seen many who suggest he was from Hucknall Torkard (of Lord Byron fame) - the only clue being the name of his father William (Farmer) stated in the marriage certificate to Mary Danfield.

If anyone does have further information on the Rhodes's of the Forest of Dean - I would be pleased to know.I understand that the Frowen Rhodes's were descended from Mary Frowen and there is little evidence to link them to Thomas other than he being the step father.

Forest of Dean FHT Forum

1876 - late registration of illegitimate birth (RHODES) (General)