WINDE, Nathaniel (Sr.); Tidenham born ab 1714 Unknown Spouse (Parish Records)

by NickiGeni, Tuesday, September 06, 2016, 23:52 (1185 days ago)

Hello,
Greetings from the US, this is my first post here! I am very lucky to have had a distant relative create an extensive family tree, and I am continuing her research. My Wind/Winde/Winds ancestors came from Tidenham. They were sawyers. We have been able to go as far back to Nathaniel's father and Mother (Richard and Jane).

I do not have a spouse for Nathaniel Winde, son of Richard and Jane (nee Perkins).

Nathaniel was baptized 10 DEC 1714 in Tidenham, and died in July 1785 in Tidenham. He had 9 children with unknown spouse. I would like to know who his wife (wives?) was. I checked the parish link, but could not find a spouse listed.

Just for clarification: the Wind name changed with children, and with location changes. In Tidenham they are listed as all or any of the following: Wind, Winde, Winds, and eventually Wynes. The Wynes derivative began with my 3rd Great Grandfather, Nathaniel, who moved to London after 1816.

I know I will have more questions, but I'll start with this one! Thank you, Nicki

WINDE, Nathaniel of Tidenham married Susan BEVAN

by Jefff @, West London, Middlesex, Wednesday, September 07, 2016, 01:38 (1185 days ago) @ NickiGeni

Hello,
Greetings from the US, this is my first post here! I am very lucky to have had a distant relative create an extensive family tree, and I am continuing her research. My Wind/Winde/Winds ancestors came from Tidenham. They were sawyers. We have been able to go as far back to Nathaniel's father and Mother (Richard and Jane).

I do not have a spouse for Nathaniel Winde, son of Richard and Jane (nee Perkins).

Nathaniel was baptized 10 DEC 1714 in Tidenham, and died in July 1785 in Tidenham. He had 9 children with unknown spouse. I would like to know who his wife (wives?) was. I checked the parish link, but could not find a spouse listed.

Thank you, Nicki

Hi Nicki and a very warm welcome to this great website and friendly forum.
It's gone 1am here in the UK and I've already spent too long today enjoying the site, but until tomorrow this should help you. Searching the PRs I've found this Marriage Record, how does that fit your known timeframe of Baptisms etc ?;

Record_ID 56946
Entry_Number
Year 1769
Month May
Day 23
Grooms_Surname WINDE
Grooms_Forenames Nathaniell
Grooms_Age
Groom_Condition
Grooms_Occupation
Grooms_Residence
Grooms_Fathers_Surname
Grooms_Fathers_Forenames
Grooms_Fathers_Occupation
Brides_Surname BEVAN
Brides_Forenames Susan
Brides_Age
Brides_Condition
Brides_Occupation
Brides_Residence
Brides_Fathers_Surname
Brides_Fathers_Forenames
Brides_Fathers_Occupation
Licence_or_Banns
Date_of_Banns
Signature_or_Mark
Witness_1
Witness_2
Other_Witnesses
Officiating_Minister
Event Marriage
Memoranda
Notes Not in PR's
Register_Reference GDR V1/245
Page_Number
Parish_Chapel Tidenham
Soundex_Groom W530
Soundex_Bride B150

From the available PRs this Baptism looks the best available fit for Susan. I cannot readily find her Burial, assuming she didn't remarry.
??

Record_ID: 261250
Entry_Number:
Year: 1750
Month: Apr
Day: 11
Parents_Surname: BEVAN
Child_Forenames: Susanna
Fathers_Forenames: James
Mothers_Forenames:
Mothers_Surname:
Residence:
Occupation:
Officiating_Minister:
Event: Baptism
Memoranda: daughter of
Notes:
Register_Reference: P333/1 IN 1/1
Page_Number:
Parish_Chapel: Tidenham
Soundex: B150

As you know Nathaniel Sr b1714 had a son Nathaniel b1742.
However I also find this Baptism Record from 1790, which at first glance seems to match the above Marriage, until I remember that Nathaniel Sr appears to have died in 1785 !
Is it just a coincidence that Nathaniel Jr also marries a Susan, or ???...

Record_ID: 364917
Entry_Number:
Year: 1790
Month: Feb
Day: 21
Parents_Surname: WINDE
Child_Forenames: Nathaniel
Fathers_Forenames: Nathaniel
Mothers_Forenames: Susan
Mothers_Surname:
Residence:
Occupation:
Officiating_Minister:
Event: Baptism
Memoranda:
Notes:
Register_Reference: GDR V1/245
Page_Number:
Parish_Chapel: Tidenham
Soundex: W530

Clearly this search needs more work, unless you can already explain the above conundrum ?. I've also had a very quick look at the LDS / Familysearch site, but cannot see an obviosu solution.
It might be worth re-searching this site's PRs, using the excellent Advanced Search feature, which allows searches uisng the barest of input name info, such as just initials to accommodate unlikely name-spelling variants, sometimes ticking the Soundex box doesn't always work as we might think it should.

More tomorrow hopefully, Jeff.

PS Meanwhile, have you browsed around the rest of this excellent website ?, eg the old photos, documents, newpaper articles, Wills and Inquests etc etc.

PPS A quick websearch of Nathaniel's name gave this FH webpage for him and his family, which appears to support my earlier findings re Susan Bevan. Have you seen this site before ?.
http://www.kempfamilyhistory.com/getperson.php?personID=I36519&tree=adkemp

Also this one https://www.geni.com/people/Nathaniel-Wynes/6000000002814802321

----------------

UPDATED 7 September after MPG's helpful post (below).
I did wonder that the above 1769 Marriage was rather late in the life of Nathaniel Sr b1714, I now guess this marriage is at best his second, or perhaps more likely relates to his son Nathaniel Jr born 1742, as per my post below.
Sorry for confusing things, thanks MPG !

WINDE, Nathaniel (c1714) married Elizabeth JAMES 1740

by MPGriffiths @, Wednesday, September 07, 2016, 07:59 (1185 days ago) @ Jefff

Gloucestershire Marriage Allegations 1637-1837 and Marriage Bonds 1730-1823 (under Resources on this website)

two entries for Nathaniel WINDE

Record ID: 40728

24 June 1740

Nathaniel WINDE - aged 24 (c1716) - Bachelor, residence: Tiddenham

Elizabeth JAMES - aged 21, Spinster - City of Gloucester

Marriage by: Licence

He signs

event type: Marriage Allegation

Memoranda: Sworn before Edw Niccolls

Transcriber's Notes: To marry at St Mary de Crypt


--- St Mary de Crypt is in Gloucester ----


Record ID: 55657

24 June 1740

Nathaniel WINDE - Yeoman, residence: Tiddenham

Elizabeth JAMES

Marriage by Bond

He signs

Witness 1: James WATKINS a Carpenter of the City of Glouceter

Sealed and Delivered in the presence of: Tho BRANCH

Event type: Marriage Bond

Memoranda: The groom and James WATKINS are bound in the sum of £500. To marry at St Mary de Crypt.

----

Men in Armour for Gloucestershire 1608

http://www.coaley.net


Does list a few: WYNDE/WYND/WIND/WINDE in various locations.

------

By using the Advance Search i.e. Marriages and put in WILD in the witness box

e.g. (there are a few of them including)

Tidenham

27 February 1775 - Matthew KEARE married Anne TAYLER

second witness was: Nath(anie)l WINDE

and

Samuel POWELL - married Elizabeth JAMES - 12 November 1780 again at Tidenham and Witness 1 was Nath(anie)l WINDE

John WYNDE or WINDE, Tidenham (Will dated 1596) + Will 1546

by MPGriffiths @, Wednesday, September 07, 2016, 08:25 (1185 days ago) @ MPGriffiths

Checking the National Archives

Google: A2a


Listed is:

Will of John WYNDE or WINDE, Yeoman of Tidenham

dated: 1 June 1596

Held by: The National Archives, Kew

This can be downloaded for the cost of £3.45


---


The Gloucestershire Archives - Genealogical Search

http://ww3.gloucestershire.gov.uk/genealogy/Search.aspx

include

Will of

John WYNDE of Tidenham dated 1546

WINDE, Nathaniel (c1714) married Elizabeth JAMES 1740

by Jefff @, West London, Middlesex, Wednesday, September 07, 2016, 14:39 (1184 days ago) @ MPGriffiths

Hi MPG, hope you're well.
thanks as ever for clearing things up, I've amended my first post accordingly.
Also BIG thanks for reminding me to use the Marriage Allegations & Bonds resource, something I keep forgetting to use but now realise is a MUST-see !.

So I guess it's looking like the 1769 Marriage (which did seem very late given Nathaniel Sr's birthdate) is at best not his first marriage, and is more likely to be that of his son Nathaniel Jr born abt 1742.

Record_ID: 261146
Entry_Number:
Year: 1742
Month: Aug
Day: 22
Parents_Surname: WIND
Child_Forenames: Nathaniell
Fathers_Forenames: Nathaniell
Mothers_Forenames:
Mothers_Surname:
Residence:
Occupation:
Officiating_Minister:
Event: Baptism
Memoranda: son of
Notes:
Register_Reference: P333/1 IN 1/1
Page_Number:
Parish_Chapel: Tidenham
Soundex: W530

------------

Ref the Marriage Allegations resource, I see that the ONLY hits given for surname spelt "Wind" are from 1746 - 1766 at Berkeley, just across the Severn from Tidenham; can't help thinking they are related to Nathaniel of Tidenham. To further complicate the search, I see a few spelling variations for Tidenham, Berkeley etc in that resource, so needs thorough and careful searching.
Judging from the hits I found for Wind, Winde, Wynde etc, from before Nathaniel's time, I wonder if his family originated from the Northern Cotswolds (Tewkesbury, Guiting, Charlton Kings etc) before finding their way down river ??.

Thanks YET again MPG for enlightening me, atb Jeff

Nathaniel HINDE/Elizabeth JOANES

by MPGriffiths @, Wednesday, September 07, 2016, 14:45 (1184 days ago) @ Jefff

The transcription of the marriage at St Mary de Crypt needs amendment


i.e.

Nathaniel HINDE/Elizabeth JOANES - 24 June 1740


? are the other HINDE's records WINDE (a confusing first letter)


e.g.

Burial at Tibberton 12 September 1607

Martha HINDE - daughter of Richard and Elizabeth

Nathaniel HINDE/Elizabeth JOANES

by NickiGeni, Wednesday, September 07, 2016, 19:21 (1184 days ago) @ MPGriffiths

Thank you, the marriage date looks about accurate from what I speculated. I've found that written transcriptions can be a little confusing, and that old script can look like different letters...depending on the scribe, type of handwriting, neatness, etc. I think I did see something on familysearch the other day about an Elizabeth Joanes. However, I did not want to jump to any conclusions and put her in the tree, until it was more certain.

Right now there is no Martha Wind(e)(s) in the tree. Our tree begins in 1685 with Richard Wind & his wife, Jane Perkins.

Thank you so much for this research. I will peruse, and use familysearch to try to verify. (I'm holding off paying for an ancestry subscription. Probably will do so when it gets more wintery).

Nathaniel HINDE/Elizabeth JOANES

by admin ⌂, Forest of Dean, Monday, September 12, 2016, 13:56 (1179 days ago) @ MPGriffiths

We have checked transcriptions of the Marriage and Marriage Licence and find that the Surname of the Groom in the Marriage transcript should read WINDE and it has therefore been amended. The surname of the Bride clearly reads JOANES.
When looking at the Licence the Bride's surname clearly reads JAMES!
It is worth mentioning that there is a very good signature by Nathaniell on the Licence.

We have also looked at all the HINDE entries and made amendments to 2 entries.

Nathaniel HINDE/Elizabeth JOANES

by NickiGeni, Saturday, September 17, 2016, 19:23 (1174 days ago) @ admin

Hello, Thank you for this, and I apologize for my delay. I've added Elizabeth James to my family tree. So, now I'm a little confused. I can always add an AKA Joanes?

I'm still very new here, so knowing where to look for things is a little bit of a learning curve.

Can one view the records which you've mentioned?
Thank you very much! Nicki

WINDE, Nathaniel (c1714) married Elizabeth JAMES 1740

by NickiGeni, Wednesday, September 07, 2016, 19:47 (1184 days ago) @ Jefff

Hello Jeff,
OK, yes, the Wind(e)(s) and maybe even Window(!) gets to be a bit much. My forefathers were mostly illiterate from what I've seen in marriage records (signing with an "x"). The name is spelled all sorts of ways, as I've mentioned. Our tree starts with Richard Wind and his wife Jane Perkins (my 6th ggparents). I don't know anything before that time, and it gets tricky with all the name variations. Our family thought for a long time that the Wind -> Wynes side came from Wales, while close, there's no evidence of that yet.

My 5th GGpa Nathaniel's baptism has come up as 22 Aug 1743. But, one finds that too, different dates can be in records. I will use the resources that you and MPG have listed for me.

Well, great work listing all the kids, Jeff. Yes, the offspring lists look accurate.

BTW, is there a way to post images without using a link?

Thank you again, Nicki :)

Nathaniel WINDE Will

by MPGriffiths @, Thursday, September 08, 2016, 12:10 (1183 days ago) @ NickiGeni

Had a quick look at our local library today : Ancestry is free.

The Will of Nathaniel WINDE otherwise WINDES, Seaman on board the Ship or Vessel - Letter of Marque : dated 17 November 1786.

Nathaniel's Will was written: 10 March 1779 - mentioning just his wife Susannah - re Salary and Prize money etc. witnessed by John HARRIS - ? KELSON and Joseph ROFSTER. This was then proved in London 17 November 1786.

Nathaniel WINDE Will

by NickiGeni, Saturday, September 17, 2016, 19:30 (1174 days ago) @ MPGriffiths

Thank you MPG,
I appreciate your tenacious research! I can make some notes on my family tree for Nathaniel. I would like to wait until I can see the documents for myself before solidifying this result. The only reason I say this is, because there seem to be a lot of Nathaniels in this line.* But, it makes sense, given the wife's name.

I am on ancestry (US), but am not currently paying for a subscription (to see records). I might join up again in the winter, for an indoor activity.

This was very kind of you. So far all we know about the Wind/e/s is that they were sawyers, so a seafaring forefather comes as a big surprise :O)

I will make the notes on my ancestry tree for now.

Thank you again! I appreciate your work, Nicki


*I've run into a lot of confusing situations with areas where names are repeated throughout the families...just want to be cautious :)

Cotswolds: not certain

by NickiGeni, Saturday, September 17, 2016, 19:46 (1174 days ago) @ Jefff

Hi Jefff,
I just want to thank you for posting. I don't have family history prior to Richard Wind (born 1685). We don't have a birth place for him (yet). The same goes for his wife Jane (nee Perkins) born 1690. Just a date, and no birthplace.

So, as far as locations outside of Tidenham: I have no evidence at this time.

Really appreciate your contributions, and more food for thought!
Thank you, Nicki :O)

WINDE, Nathaniel (c1714) married Elizabeth JOANES 1740

by Jefff @, West London, Middlesex, Wednesday, September 07, 2016, 15:01 (1184 days ago) @ MPGriffiths

Gloucestershire Marriage Allegations 1637-1837 and Marriage Bonds 1730-1823 (under Resources on this website)

two entries for Nathaniel WINDE

Record ID: 40728

24 June 1740

Nathaniel WINDE - aged 24 (c1716) - Bachelor, residence: Tiddenham

Elizabeth JOANES - aged 21, Spinster - City of Gloucester

Marriage by: Licence


Post amended to show JOANES not JAMES. Those Jones get everywhere... ;-)


Their child ?

Record_ID: 261214
Entry_Number:
Year: 1747
Month: Aug
Day: 1
Parents_Surname: WINDE
Child_Forenames: Elizabeth
Fathers_Forenames: Nathaniel
Mothers_Forenames:
Mothers_Surname:
Residence:
Occupation:
Officiating_Minister:
Event: Baptism
Memoranda: daughter of
Notes: Nath extended to Nathaniel
Register_Reference: P333/1 IN 1/1
Page_Number:
Parish_Chapel: Tidenham
Soundex: W530

Tidenham PRs also show a 1743 Baptism for an Elizabeth WIND to John WIND, and a 1793 Burial for an Elizabeth WIND.

Listing ALL this site's Baptisms at Tidenham to father Nathaniel, it looks like they show two separate families, namely;

1741 WIND John Nathaniell Baptism Tidenham
1742 WIND Nathaniell Nathaniell Baptism Tidenham
1744 WINDE John Nathaniell Baptism Tidenham
1745 WINDE Richard Nathaniel Baptism Tidenham
1747 WINDE Elizabeth Nathaniel Baptism Tidenham
1750 WIND William Nathaniel Baptism Tidenham
1751 WIND Ann Nathaniell Baptism Tidenham
1754 WIND Jane Nathaniel Baptism Tidenham
1760 WIND Thomas Nathanell Baptism Tidenham

Given that Nathaniel Sr b1714 married Elizabeth JOANES in 1740, the above look to be his. This matches Nicki's post "Nathaniel died in July 1785 in Tidenham. He had 9 children".


----------- After a 10 YEAR GAP, suggesting different parents -----------


1770 WIND Mary Nathaniel Susanna Baptism Tidenham
1773 WINDE Richard Nathaniel Susannah Baptism Tidenham
1775 WIND Hester Nathaniel Susanna Baptism Tidenham
1784 WIND Joseph Nathaniel Susan Baptism Tidenham
1790 WINDE Nathaniel Nathaniel Susan Baptism Tidenham
1798 WIND James Nathaniel Susannah Baptism Tidenham

Nathaniel Jr b1742 married Susan BEVAN in 1769, these look to be their family.

WINDE

by MPGriffiths @, Wednesday, September 07, 2016, 15:27 (1184 days ago) @ Jefff

The earliest WIND(E) in Tibberton need to be put into family groups - which would help.


?

Richard WIND - Two baptisms of his children, Richard in 1710 and Thomas 1712, Richard's occupation was CLARK


Licence - for

William WINDE - also a Clerk at Temple Guitings - 18 June 1709 to Sarah MASON of Charlton Kings.
Henry WINDE - again a Clerk aged 43 of Didbrocke - married Elizabeth GORTON a widow 1 December 1662

Three WINDE's grooms have the same occupation - do wonder if there is a connection.

Will of William WINDE of Didbrook/Farmcott - dated 1746 - occupation: CLERK - on Gloucestershire Gen. Database

Will of Nathaniel WINDE other WINDES - 17 November 1786

by MPGriffiths @, Wednesday, September 07, 2016, 16:58 (1184 days ago) @ MPGriffiths

The National Archives

A2a

needs close searching i.e.


This Will can be downloaded for £3.45

Dated 17 November 1786

Will of Nathaniel WINDE otherwise WINDES.
Seaman on board the Ship of Vessel or Letter of Marque called the Minerva now lying in the Port of Bristol of Tydham, Gloucestershire

Held by: The National Archives, Kew.

Also available to read on Ancestry: under England & Wales Prerogative Court of Canterbury Wills 1384-1858

--


Googling the ship's name - Google Books 11 August 1809

Alexander Macaulay, Master of the Brig : LETTER OF MARQUE THE MINERVA OF LONDON.


Also on National Archives

Will of Robert GRANT - 27 September 1783

Late Prize Master - Letter of Marque called the Minerva - belonging to the Port of Bristol

WINDE

by NickiGeni, Wednesday, September 07, 2016, 19:15 (1184 days ago) @ MPGriffiths

Thank you for this. I will need to look at all your posts very closely. Very kind of you to go through the effort! It will take me some time to look into each of the posts with a fine-toothed comb. Much appreciated, Nicki :)

WINDE, Nathaniel of Tidenham married Susan BEVAN

by NickiGeni, Wednesday, September 07, 2016, 19:27 (1184 days ago) @ Jefff

Hello Jeff, Thank you for the welcome...so kind of you to be doing "my" homework at 1 am! I hope you got a good night's sleep.

So, the Wind/Wynes family really passed on the name Nathaniel for quite a few generations. There are many of them. It can get confusing, esp. when you start heading over to London and cousins are living with their aunts and uncles. But, I digress.

Susan Bevan and Nathaniel Wind are the generation after Nathaniel, Sr. I wish I could load a screen shot on here of our family tree, it would make more sense.

Thanks so much for your hard work Jeff. I now need to go through the posts, and try to sort it all out. :)

RSS Feed of thread
powered by my little forum