Doctor John Carter (Inquests)

by aussie @, Tasmania, Australia, Friday, December 30, 2016, 09:55 (1078 days ago)

Hi,

I've searched your forum and your inquests but found nothing on this chap... so I started a new topic.

Some time ago, I found a snippet of information on the internet, as below.

1794
Mar 31. On Sunday last JOHN CARTER DOCTOR, endeavouring to catch a salmon fish, nearly opposite Arlingham Worth, in the river Severn, the sands being quick and giving way, forced him into the Channel, where he was drowned, in the sight of many spectators on shore. He has left a wife and three small children. Verdict, Accidental Death.

It was on this website. I hope I'm not breaching any copyright.

http://www.genebug.net/glsinquests.htm

I have a John Carter from around that era and at this stage I only have three children for him. Does anyone have access to any old books about Arlingham people or genealogy family trees etc (wishful thinking) that might help me get my ancestors sorted, please?

I have the digital image for my ancestor's marriage in 1787. Where it is supposed to state marital status is states 'Fisherman'. Surely it would state Doctor if indeed he was? But really it should have stated Batchelor or Widower. There were at least 3 chaps by the same name born at Arlingham between 1760 - 1770. There's a few trees on Ancestry and the usual confusion isn't helping my progress. I thought that my John Carter was the son of Giles Carter of Puckpool Farm. But according to one of the family trees on Ancestry Giles's son John married a different woman to the one I have as his wife.

I just googled to ascertain where 'Arlingham Worth' is/was and this link came up in the results. It has the same inquest as aforementioned. It's rather surprising to see an Aussie institution studying inquests that far back in time.

http://www.law.mq.edu.au/research/colonial_case_law/colonial_cases/less_developed/coron...

Thanks in advance.
Kind regards,
Aussie

Doctor John Carter

by MPGriffiths @, Friday, December 30, 2016, 10:34 (1078 days ago) @ aussie

Can't see Arlingham records around this time on FoD records

---

Gloucestershire Marriage Index Cd pre 1800

Marriage at Arlingham

13 May 1787

John CARTER and Elizabeth HAILE

---

Family Search: Baptisms at Arlingham

John : 21 October 1788
Thomas : 21 January 1791
Hannah : 14 April 1793

---


Marriage at Arlingham

10 November 1796

Elizabeth CARTER - Widow

William GREENAWAY

---


? Burial at Arlingham: 16 March 1851

Elizabeth GREENWAY aged 83


? check for witnesses at the children's weddings

Doctor John Carter

by shepway @, Friday, December 30, 2016, 10:49 (1078 days ago) @ MPGriffiths

Parish Records for Arlingham on this site date from 1813.

The Burial Register for 1794 is on Ancestry and his burial is recorded on 26 March 1794 and includes the following:
"submisi: in flum: Sabrin:"

Mike

Doctor John Carter

by aussie @, Tasmania, Australia, Friday, December 30, 2016, 11:04 (1078 days ago) @ shepway

Hi Mike,
Thank you very much for your reply.

Yes, I forgot to mention that I have that burial image but I don't know what the latin means, I assume it's latin anyway.

I will google it.

Cheers,
Aussie

Doctor John Carter

by shepway @, Friday, December 30, 2016, 15:50 (1077 days ago) @ aussie

submisi: in flum: Sabrin:

submisi: could be submersi = drowned
flum: is for flumine = river
Sabrin: is for Sabrina = latin name for Severn

Mike

Doctor John Carter

by aussie @, Tasmania, Australia, Saturday, December 31, 2016, 06:17 (1077 days ago) @ shepway

Hi Mike,

Thank you very much for that information.

Kind regards,
Aussie

Doctor John Carter

by Peter Preece @, Saturday, December 31, 2016, 10:26 (1077 days ago) @ aussie

Re Doctor-

On FOD search Bigland MI's for Arlingham and you will find
numerous Carter entries. However, there are 2 with the suffix
Dr. on the tomb stones. So maybe there were Carters who practiced
medicine.

Ancestry records show both burials with Dr after the names.

Hope this helps.

Regards

Peter Preece _

Doctor John Carter

by Mike Pinchin @, Bedford, England, Saturday, December 31, 2016, 11:34 (1076 days ago) @ Peter Preece

There is also this one in Bigland Arlingham,

RICHARD CARTER, Physician,
Died 17 March, 1656

Perhaps he is the origin of the style used by later members of this branch of the family (as suggested in one of Jeff’s posts).

Doctor John Carter

by Peter Preece @, Saturday, December 31, 2016, 13:52 (1076 days ago) @ Mike Pinchin

Mike,

Richard Carter was licenced by the Archbishop of Canterbury
to practice medicine in 1622 - in Arlingham

There was also Thomas Carter of London licenced in 1666.

Hope this helps.

I had seen the Bigland physio.

Thanks Jefff for the Preece bits in your note

Carter: Burials at Arlingham

by MPGriffiths @, Saturday, December 31, 2016, 13:56 (1076 days ago) @ Peter Preece

On the Wishful Thinking site

Google: Arlingham - Wishful Thinking's Local History Pages


Arlingham St Mary

30 Carter's Memorials Inscriptions transcribed - way back to 1730

This helps with family groups

Carter: Burials at Arlingham

by aussie @, Tasmania, Australia, Saturday, December 31, 2016, 22:48 (1076 days ago) @ MPGriffiths

Thanks for your reply MPG,
I discovered Wishful Thinking a few years ago. Yes, I have found some of the MI's very helpful as some name other members of the family.
The Alf Beard who has done many of the transcriptions that are on WT is probably my cousin. We haven't been in contact for approximately 10 years. I will endeavour to contact him again soon.

I've also found these two sites helpful, to some degree, with researching my Gloucestershire ancestors.

http://ukga.org

http://www.parishmouse.co.uk/doku.php

KR,
Aussie

Doctor John Carter

by MPGriffiths @, Saturday, December 31, 2016, 14:19 (1076 days ago) @ Peter Preece

The National Archives has the

Will of Richard CARTER Physican, Arlingham dated 1658 - which can be downloaded for £3.45


Gloucestershire 1608 Men & Armour for Gloucestershire

http://www.coaley.net/glos1608/index.php

ARLINGHAM

Henry CARTEL - Weaver A40 (age around 40) - tallest stature. trained.

Thomas CARTER - weaver A20 (age around 20) - meanest stature
*(fit for pioneer or of little other use)

Margaret CARTER - subsidy man widow has a musket and a caliver furnished (women's lib!!!)

Richard CARTER A20 - lower stature
(fit to serve with a caliver)

Gyles CARTER yeoman - A40 - middle stature. trained. subsidy man
(fit to make a musketeer)

Thomas CARTER servant to the said Richard FRYER. A20. meanest stature
*(as above)

The website will show you what these men are fit for i.e. Pikeman etc. depending on their height.


----


Portrait of Gloucestershire by T.A. Ryder (First edition printed 1966)

Arlingham, as might be expected from its position inside the loop of the Severn, has suffered much in the past from floods; there were disastrous ones, causing loss of life and musch damage, in 1483, 1607, 1628, 1629 and 1703. Nor was the flooding the only hazard, if we are to believe an entry in an old register which runs;

Jan. 20 1606-7, Tuesday - a great flood with a strong south-west wind, many sheep and cattle lost. The somer following there was a most extreme hot somer, in so much that many died, with heat; and in 1607 was a wonderful frost, after all which was a dearth.

Doctor John Carter

by aussie @, Tasmania, Australia, Sunday, March 19, 2017, 05:00 (999 days ago) @ MPGriffiths

Hi MPG,
Thanks so much for this interesting information. This is way more than I expected, but it's great to know this stuff is online.

Kind regards,
Aussie

The National Archives has the

Will of Richard CARTER Physican, Arlingham dated 1658 - which can be downloaded for £3.45


Gloucestershire 1608 Men & Armour for Gloucestershire

http://www.coaley.net/glos1608/index.php

ARLINGHAM

Henry CARTEL - Weaver A40 (age around 40) - tallest stature. trained.

Thomas CARTER - weaver A20 (age around 20) - meanest stature
*(fit for pioneer or of little other use)

Margaret CARTER - subsidy man widow has a musket and a caliver furnished (women's lib!!!)

Richard CARTER A20 - lower stature
(fit to serve with a caliver)

Gyles CARTER yeoman - A40 - middle stature. trained. subsidy man
(fit to make a musketeer)

Thomas CARTER servant to the said Richard FRYER. A20. meanest stature
*(as above)

The website will show you what these men are fit for i.e. Pikeman etc. depending on their height.


----


Portrait of Gloucestershire by T.A. Ryder (First edition printed 1966)

Arlingham, as might be expected from its position inside the loop of the Severn, has suffered much in the past from floods; there were disastrous ones, causing loss of life and musch damage, in 1483, 1607, 1628, 1629 and 1703. Nor was the flooding the only hazard, if we are to believe an entry in an old register which runs;

Jan. 20 1606-7, Tuesday - a great flood with a strong south-west wind, many sheep and cattle lost. The somer following there was a most extreme hot somer, in so much that many died, with heat; and in 1607 was a wonderful frost, after all which was a dearth.

Preece of Newnham

by Jefff @, West London, Middlesex, Saturday, December 31, 2016, 18:27 (1076 days ago) @ Peter Preece


Thanks Jefff for the Preece bits in your note

You're very welcome Peter, hopefully it was relevant, I took a chance that you might have an interest in Newnham/Arlingham Preeces. In case you've not seen it, the book contains large photos of letters written in June 1896 by a Henry Preece of The Reddings, Stonehouse wrt the Newnham ferry etc. I guess he is related to, or even the same man, as the Henry Preece who's listed as an auctioneer and draper, High Street, in the 1876 Newnham Directory. (I'm struggling to place him in the census' via Ancestry).
http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~cbennett/newnham1876.htm

atb J

Doctor John Carter

by aussie @, Tasmania, Australia, Friday, December 30, 2016, 11:00 (1078 days ago) @ MPGriffiths

Hi MPGriffiths,

Thanks so much for your reply. Yes, John CARTER and Elizabeth HALE were my 5 x Gt grandparents and that is the correct marriage date and I've also seen that incorrect spelling of her name on one of the Ancestry trees. Getting his baptism and parents sorted is my main problem.

Their son Thomas is my ancestor. I didn't have the baptism dates for his siblings. Thanks for the additional information. I have the digital image for Thomas's marriage. LONGNEY and WATTS were the witnesses, so no help there. Yes, I will search for John's and Hannah's marriages. I will also check the CARTER / GREENWAY marriage and review the 1851 census. At the moment I can't recall if it was Thomas's mother or mother-in-law who was his neighbour.

Thanks for the burial info too.

Can't see Arlingham records around this time on FoD records

---

Gloucestershire Marriage Index Cd pre 1800

Marriage at Arlingham

13 May 1787

John CARTER and Elizabeth HAILE

---

Family Search: Baptisms at Arlingham

John : 21 October 1788
Thomas : 21 January 1791
Hannah : 14 April 1793

---


Marriage at Arlingham

10 November 1796

Elizabeth CARTER - Widow

William GREENAWAY

---


? Burial at Arlingham: 16 March 1851

Elizabeth GREENWAY aged 83


? check for witnesses at the children's weddings

Doctor John Carter

by MPGriffiths @, Friday, December 30, 2016, 11:14 (1077 days ago) @ aussie

Re: LONGNEY and WATTS - witnesses

Thomas CARTER christened 21 January 1791


? when and whom did you Thomas CARTER (of Arlingham) marry

Ann BRINKWORTH 20 February 1810 at Leonard Stanley

--


There are many CARTER's listed on the Gloucester Marriage Allegations 1637-1837 and Marriage Bonds 1730-1823 on this website

including

---


Marriage Licence : 13 August 1801

Thomas CARTER aged 21 c1780 - Batchelor, labourer, Arlingham


Mary LONGNEY aged 21 - Spinster, Arlingham


Sworn before Thos RUDGE to marry in the Parish Church of Arlingham

Doctor John Carter

by aussie @, Tasmania, Australia, Friday, December 30, 2016, 11:22 (1077 days ago) @ MPGriffiths

Hi MPGriffiths,

Yes, Ann BRINKWORTH is my ancestor. Therefore the witnesses didn't solve my problem in my initial post about John Carter. I think I will contact the Bristol Library to ascertain if they have any info on Doctor John Carter.

Thanks again.
Kind regards,
Aussie

John/Thomas CARTER Doctor (of Arlingham) + Richard DOCTOR

by MPGriffiths @, Friday, December 30, 2016, 11:37 (1077 days ago) @ aussie

If you Search on the National Archives

Google: A2a

There is a number of items including

Date: 12 February 1765

Reference: D2957/20/120

Description: Lease

1. Mary YATE widow of Arlingham

2. John CARTER commonly called John CARTER Doctor, of Arlingham


Tenement called Woolthrope House, with a barn and orchard, ground of Mary FRYER widow on N; ground of John KING on S and E' ground called Spirt on W

Thomas CARTER his father, Mary CARTER, sister of *2)

witnesses: William FRYER and Robert PYRKE **

---

??

Fod Records

Bond:

5 April 1765

Robert PYRKE - Gent of Newnham
Martha FORSTER of Awre

etc etc

---


By Googling:

Will of : Doctor Carter Giles- Arlingham 1792

Also on A2a

Richard DOCTOR of Arlingham - 1802 - Service record aged 27


? Gloucestershire Marriage Index

Thomas CARTER married Elizabeth STYLES at Arlingham 2 September 1745

---


***

Also on National Archives and held at Gloucester

Dated 1658

Various properties in Arlingha.....

agreement between Gyles CARTER yeoman and his brother Henry, weaver.......

etc etc

marriage settlement of Daniel FRYER and Mary CARTER (house called Woolthrope and other properties)....

John/Thomas CARTER Doctor (of Arlingham) + Richard DOCTOR

by aussie @, Tasmania, Australia, Friday, December 30, 2016, 20:56 (1077 days ago) @ MPGriffiths

Wow, thanks so much! I can't keep up with all the replies and new information. :) Elizabeth Hale was baptised 6 March 1768 Frampton Cotterell. My John Carter was probably one of the 3 or 4 lads baptised between 1760 - 1770, not sure which one's ours yet. So, 1765 is too early for the my John, unless his father was John Carter Doctor too. Sometime ago, somewhere on the internet I did read read that there was a father and son both named John Carter, both Doctors. Now that my health is improving I'm trying to make the most of it before my uni 'Diploma of Family History' course recommences in March 2017. I will try to find that information again.

There were a lot of Carter folk at Arlingham and they're probably all related. Of course, several of the names like Thomas, John, Giles were commonly used. I also have FRYER ancestors, as well as several other names from GLS and a cousin reckons we also have LONGNEY ancestors.

In due course, I will definitely follow up on all the information you dear people have so very kindly assisted me with.

Kind regards,
Aussie

Elizabeth HAILE/CARTER/GREEN(A)WAY

by MPGriffiths @, Friday, December 30, 2016, 14:50 (1077 days ago) @ MPGriffiths

When Elizabeth CARTER (Widow) married William GREENAWAY at Arlingham 10 November 1796

one witness was : James HAILE and another Aaron JAYSUM


Family Search has baptisms at Arlingham

for William & Elizabeth GREENAWAY

Sarah - 17 April 1797 died 7 March 1798
William - 8 August 1802
James - 3 March 1805

Joseph - 3 July 1808
Mary - 3 July 1808

Eliazer - 10 May 1812


1841 Census
Arlingham
Woodcroft Cottage

GREENWAY

Elizabeth - 70/74
James 35/39
Cahterine 25/29
William 7
Catherine 6
Ann 4
James 2
Thomas 0.


---

Ancestry

Richard DOCTOR 1802 - in Chelsea Barracks


and

Gloucester Land Tax Records 1713-1833


Richard DOCTOR is in Arlingham

Elizabeth HAILE/CARTER/GREEN(A)WAY

by MPGriffiths @, Friday, December 30, 2016, 15:59 (1077 days ago) @ MPGriffiths

National Archives: held at Gloucestershire

25 February 1772

Lease

(1) Mary YATE, Lady of the manor of Arlingham

(2) Charles HALE of Arlingham, labourer

Malthouse Patch (1/2a) part of land called st Augstine's Lands and part of the Manor of Arlingham; lands of Giles CARTER get on S lands of John MERRY to N; Nettons Lane on W; the common highway from Arlingham to Warthfield on E

Rent 10/-

Term: 99 years or lives of Elizabeth (wife of 2) and John and Mary their son and daughter)

Consideration: £5. 5s.

Witnesses: William FRYER and John MATTHEWS

Elizabeth HAILE/CARTER/GREEN(A)WAY

by aussie @, Tasmania, Australia, Friday, December 30, 2016, 21:06 (1077 days ago) @ MPGriffiths

Wow, I'm overjoyed with your kindness! Thanks so much.
I've downloaded this marriage, which I didn't know about. On the digital image it looks more like James HALLE. Never-the-less, it does appear to be my Elizabeth nee Hale. There are two pages on the image, 6 marriages and Aaron JAYSUM was a witness at 5 of the 6 events. The marriage above my ancestor's is another Elizabeth CARTER, but she was a spinster.
So I have a lot of GREENAWAY cousins too! Richard the Doctor is new to me. I don't have a clue who he belongs to in the CARTER clan, but eventually will get them all sorted.
Cheers,
Aussie

Doctor John Carter

by aussie @, Tasmania, Australia, Friday, December 30, 2016, 23:13 (1077 days ago) @ MPGriffiths

I think I posted my reply in the wrong place last night, sorry! Here's a copy...

Hi aussie,
aussie has posted a reply on "Doctor John Carter":

Subject: Doctor John Carter
Hi MPGriffiths,

Thanks so much for your reply. Yes, John CARTER and Elizabeth HALE were my 5 x Gt grandparents and that is the correct marriage date and I've also seen that incorrect spelling of her name on one of the Ancestry trees. Getting his baptism and parents sorted is my main problem.

Their son Thomas is my ancestor. I didn't have the baptism dates for his siblings. Thanks for the additional information. I have the digital image for Thomas's marriage. LONGNEY and WATTS were the witnesses, so no help there. Yes, I will search for John's and Hannah's marriages. I will also check the CARTER / GREENWAY marriage and review the 1851 census. At the moment I can't recall if it was Thomas's mother or mother-in-law who was his neighbour.

Thanks for the burial info too.

Doctor John Carter

by Mike Pinchin @, Bedford, England, Friday, December 30, 2016, 18:57 (1077 days ago) @ aussie

On Ancestry there is the will of a Giles CARTER, Gentleman, of Arlingham, dated 20th April 1789.
He mentions wife, Anne, eldest son William and other sons Richard, Thomas, Samuel and Giles, but no son, John.

Giles is evidently a man of property and clearly a farmer but he does not give the name of his dwelling. The will was proved 16th May 1792. Value under £1000.

He requires William to provide for his brother, Giles, by giving him bread and board and a weekly sum of five shillings for life. This is forcefully put to the extent that the trustees may seize all or part of his inheritance in order to finance the 5s per week and any arrears.

Also on Ancestry is an application for Administration of the estate of another Giles CARTER,

On 13th March 1792 there appeared a Mary CARTER otherwise DOCTOR seeking administration of the estate of Giles CARTER otherwise DOCTOR of Arlingham, Yeoman, who had lately died intestate. The value of the estate was sworn to be less than £20. The inventory accompanying the will was taken on 13th February 1792 by Henry CARTER and William CARTER but signed by William CARTER and Thomas SPARROW. The total value was £13 13s.

In the following Obligation, William CARTER and Thomas SPARROW, Yeomen, of Arlingham, the administrators, are held in bond in the sum of £100. The original name on the document, now crossed out entirely, was Mary CARTER otherwise DOCTOR, Spinster and niece of Giles CARTER otherwise DOCTOR.

In all cases except one the word “otherwise” is crossed out.

Clearly the Giles in the application for Administration is not the one of the will or (maybe) his son. I don’t quite know how this all fits in but it must have some relevance.

Doctor John Carter

by MPGriffiths @, Friday, December 30, 2016, 19:57 (1077 days ago) @ Mike Pinchin

re: Thomas SPARROW -

On the Forest of Dean records - Licences

30 August 1788

Thomas SPARROW - aged 23, Batchelor, Carpenter, residence: Storehouse

Elizabeth CARTER - aged 23, Widow - residence: Arlingham


To marry at Arlingham.


Family Search

Children of the above at Arlingham

Thomas SPARROW - 4 July 1789
William - 4 April - 1791
Harriett - 31 December 1794
George - 16 October 1792


and Forest of Dean records

at Arlingham

15 October 1838

George SPARROW - aged 27 Widower, : father : George SPARROW, labourer
married Celia GOUGH - aged 27, Spinster, Servant, father: William GOUGH

one witness was Maria GREENWAY (surname in previous thread)

Doctor John Carter

by Peter Preece @, Friday, December 30, 2016, 20:52 (1077 days ago) @ MPGriffiths

Hi MPG,

Doctor is a surname not a title. If you enter doctor as a surname
in FOD parish search you get 2 names.
Hence the "previously crossed out" in Mike Pinchin's message.

Hope this helps,

Regards

Peter Preece

Doctor John Carter

by aussie @, Tasmania, Australia, Saturday, December 31, 2016, 00:40 (1077 days ago) @ Peter Preece

Hi Peter,
Thanks for your reply. That's a good point to consider. Yes, there are 2 people with the surname 'DOCTOR' on the FoD website.
I checked on Ancestry for the burial of John DOCTOR 1794, nothing! I searched for John Carter as christian names and surname DOCTOR, nothing again. Unfortunately I can't upload a copy of the digital image here as this message system doesn't appear to allow it without a hyperlink.

Here's a copy of the text from Ancestry which doesn't state the surname DOCTOR -

Name: John Carter
Event Type: Burial
Burial Date: 26 Mar 1794
Burial Place: Arlingham, Gloucestershire, England
Parish as it Appears: Arlingham
Register Type: Parish Registers

Surely if his surname was DOCTOR it would not be abbreviated to Dr on the original document? So I'm still inclined to believe that it is his title, not his surname. However, I'd be happy to hear any opinions.
I will try to search the medical registers on Ancestry and FMP to see if he is listed. But they may not have digitised all registers yet.
I've no idea why names were crossed out in Mike's reference.
Cheers,
Aussie

Hi MPG,

Doctor is a surname not a title. If you enter doctor as a surname
in FOD parish search you get 2 names.
Hence the "previously crossed out" in Mike Pinchin's message.

Hope this helps,

Regards

Peter Preece

Doctor John Carter

by aussie @, Tasmania, Australia, Saturday, December 31, 2016, 00:17 (1077 days ago) @ MPGriffiths

Sorry, I don't see the connection. This marriage is before John Carter died in 1794.

Thanks anyway.
Aussie

Doctor John Carter

by aussie @, Tasmania, Australia, Friday, December 30, 2016, 23:35 (1077 days ago) @ Mike Pinchin

Hi Mike,
Thank you very much for your reply. At this stage I have 5 Giles CARTER chaps on my tree. The earliest one I have was baptised 1689. I'm trying to get them sorted. There's a few references on the National Archives. Here's one

http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/rd/94d001f7-c2a6-4cae-be4c-5bc2de3d6fda

This one you provided could be a son or grandson of the Giles CARTER who owned Puckpool Farm. I think the name is weird, it might have previously been called 'Duckpool Farm'. I reckon that all the CARTER folk of Arlingham must be related. Someone has done a lot of research and posted to the genforum site. Here's the link to an avalanche of information!

http://www.genealogy.com/forum/surnames/topics/carter/15194/

I really can't see the forest for the trees! I have to ignore the CARTER's every now and then when they start doing my head in!

Cheers,
Aussie

On Ancestry there is the will of a Giles CARTER, Gentleman, of Arlingham, dated 20th April 1789.
He mentions wife, Anne, eldest son William and other sons Richard, Thomas, Samuel and Giles, but no son, John.

Giles is evidently a man of property and clearly a farmer but he does not give the name of his dwelling. The will was proved 16th May 1792. Value under £1000.

He requires William to provide for his brother, Giles, by giving him bread and board and a weekly sum of five shillings for life. This is forcefully put to the extent that the trustees may seize all or part of his inheritance in order to finance the 5s per week and any arrears.

Also on Ancestry is an application for Administration of the estate of another Giles CARTER,

On 13th March 1792 there appeared a Mary CARTER otherwise DOCTOR seeking administration of the estate of Giles CARTER otherwise DOCTOR of Arlingham, Yeoman, who had lately died intestate. The value of the estate was sworn to be less than £20. The inventory accompanying the will was taken on 13th February 1792 by Henry CARTER and William CARTER but signed by William CARTER and Thomas SPARROW. The total value was £13 13s.

In the following Obligation, William CARTER and Thomas SPARROW, Yeomen, of Arlingham, the administrators, are held in bond in the sum of £100. The original name on the document, now crossed out entirely, was Mary CARTER otherwise DOCTOR, Spinster and niece of Giles CARTER otherwise DOCTOR.

In all cases except one the word “otherwise” is crossed out.

Clearly the Giles in the application for Administration is not the one of the will or (maybe) his son. I don’t quite know how this all fits in but it must have some relevance.

Doctor John Carter

by Jefff @, West London, Middlesex, Friday, December 30, 2016, 23:55 (1077 days ago) @ aussie

This one you provided could be a son or grandson of the Giles CARTER who owned Puckpool Farm. I think the name is weird, it might have previously been called 'Duckpool Farm'. I reckon that all the CARTER folk of Arlingham must be related. Someone has done a lot of research and posted to the genforum site. Here's the link to an avalanche of information!

I really can't see the forest for the trees! I have to ignore the CARTER's every now and then when they start doing my head in!

Cheers,
Aussie

Hi Aussie, clearly you've "googled" this quite a lot, so apologies if you've already seen it, but it seems like some Carter researchers on the Rootschat forum are also confused, despite having the advantage over you of living in Arlingham !

eg

"There were Two Main Carter Families In Arlingham, those at Puckpoole and the Carter Doctors so called because they descended from a phisician and for some reason continued to use the title. Both were wealthy but my line of the Doctors were tradesmen by 1800s. Apparently they were not related but members of both sides resembled my Grandfather. Confused ? And me. They probably intermarried. There probably were some Carpenters in the families but Ive not seen one yet.My 3xGt gfather William b1779 was the only Doctor William I can find so yours May well be a Puckpoole one. At times the Doctors lived At Slowwe House,The Malthouse,Skillers House and Addresses at Overton.Henry was almost certainly a Doctor.. How did you know of Wm Carters residence? The many deeds Ive studied dont give much info on resideces. I have been to the Church many times and hope to walk the village again in the summer Thanks for your reply."

http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=613692.9

Ref Puckpool Farm, I see this address still exists and has been recorded many times in various Directories etc etc. Personally, altho I can see your thinking Aussie, I doubt this was ever Duckpool. Just yet another odd placename.

atb Jeff

PS and regarding all those Carters, your understandable "horror" amuses me, given I've just watched the latest edition of "Who Do You Think You Are ?", and actor Ricky Tomlinson was absolutely overjoyed to see his Scouse ancestors were all "carters" ... by trade.

Doctor John Carter

by aussie @, Tasmania, Australia, Saturday, December 31, 2016, 22:24 (1076 days ago) @ Jefff

Hi Jeff,
Cheers for your reply. I didn't say "horror". I'm just finding it overwhelming and confusing because the documentation rarely indicates who a person was related to. Such as the inquest I mentioned, it doesn't give his wife's name. It's very difficult to get the three John CARTER lads sorted when there's such little information available. Yes, I have used google heaps of times and I am a rootschat member. However, my health, studies and other commitments are my priority, so genealogy doesn't always get the attention I'd love to give it. Thanks. I hadn't read that post on rootschat.

Apparently, a chap by the name of Greenway, has put together a book. I discovered this webpage via google too. I've contacted Gloucestershire Live as it's an old article.
http://www.gloucestershirelive.co.uk/village-s-history-comes-book/story-11934008-detail...

FYI I try to go on fact more than thinking! There is a Duckpool House in High Street, Arlingham.
http://www.whataddress.co.uk/postcode/gl2-7jn

KR
Aussie

Doctor John Carter

by aussie @, Tasmania, Australia, Saturday, December 31, 2016, 23:32 (1076 days ago) @ Jefff

Actually, Jeff, yes I had already seen the posts about Goviers on Rootschat and contacted Jon Shaw via private message at least a year or more ago and he was unable to help me with my Carters. I forgot about it as I have a lot on my mind.
Cheers,
Aussie


Hi Aussie, clearly you've "googled" this quite a lot, so apologies if you've already seen it, but it seems like some Carter researchers on the Rootschat forum are also confused, despite having the advantage over you of living in Arlingham !

eg

"There were Two Main Carter Families In Arlingham, those at Puckpoole and the Carter Doctors so called because they descended from a phisician and for some reason continued to use the title. Both were wealthy but my line of the Doctors were tradesmen by 1800s. Apparently they were not related but members of both sides resembled my Grandfather. Confused ? And me. They probably intermarried. There probably were some Carpenters in the families but Ive not seen one yet.My 3xGt gfather William b1779 was the only Doctor William I can find so yours May well be a Puckpoole one. At times the Doctors lived At Slowwe House,The Malthouse,Skillers House and Addresses at Overton.Henry was almost certainly a Doctor.. How did you know of Wm Carters residence? The many deeds Ive studied dont give much info on resideces. I have been to the Church many times and hope to walk the village again in the summer Thanks for your reply."

http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=613692.9

Ref Puckpool Farm, I see this address still exists and has been recorded many times in various Directories etc etc. Personally, altho I can see your thinking Aussie, I doubt this was ever Duckpool. Just yet another odd placename.

atb Jeff

Doctor John Carter

by Jefff @, West London, Middlesex, Sunday, January 01, 2017, 00:09 (1076 days ago) @ aussie

Thanks for the feedback Aussie, it's always tricky to know what to post but thought it worth posting, especially as other researchers will see this thread in years to come. Sorry to hear you've been suffering health problems, we all sincerely wish you well with that; it was for health reasons that got me into finally looking-up my FH and finding this forum abt 6 years ago, it's been really helpful to me.

Yes, the word "horror" was abit over the top, I thought that when I posted it, but it was meant in jest; like you I've often been submerged in confusing facts (and sometimes fiction) and it can be hard to sort the wood from the trees. In this respect I fully agree it's always best to go on proven facts, which is why I often advise forummers to be wary of online trees. When I wrote "thinking" perhaps I should have written "research", it was just a figure of speech intended to reflect your research, which in my case always involves thinking to some degree.

Yes I can see Duckpool is a likely modern placename, as indeed it could have been long ago, but in this instance the evidence I've seen supports Puckpool(e). I see that Arlingham dates back to Domesday, much older than most of the Forest towns and certainly the one's I know, my main area of interest is engineering industry so def not medieval history as this placename might be. Most old place names seem linked to a person, but perhaps in this case it's mythology too ?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Puck_(mythology)
By complete coincidence in October I attended a family wedding at Puckrup Hall near Tewkesbury, didn't give a thought at the time to that name but must now look into it !.
Since schooldays I've been a fan of old maps and associated geography etc and I've long since realised that some of the olde placenames just don't make a lot of "sense" to modern eyes, yet they are what they are (or were, even).

Anyhow, hoping we've been of more help than hindrance, and good luck sorting out your Carters. If it's any consolation, I'm a Jones, the most common surname in the Dean..., and my line weren't too imaginative with their Christian names either ! ;-)

Here's to a Happy and Healthier New Year to you n yours (and all other forummers too of course).

atb Jeff

Doctor John Carter

by aussie @, Tasmania, Australia, Monday, January 02, 2017, 04:19 (1075 days ago) @ Jefff

Jeff, no offence intended in my last reply. I came across the name, Pucklechurch, during researching last year. It's also in GLS. No hinderance either. Yes, the avalanche of responses is wonderful for me to refer back to and for future viewers of this site. I'm just sorry that I'm unable to manage keeping up with all the replies to posts. I may have missed some but will endeavour to reply asap.

It seems that you are enjoying your research. I started my research in 1997 before I became aware of my declining health. Old maps, history and geography have become more interesting since I have family to investigate in various places. This 'forummer' is Anglo-Aussie, only born here not native. Just very fortunate to have dual nationality.

I have JONES ancestors from Cambridgeshire, mostly. One JONES ancestor moved to London, as many people's ancestors did. I look forward to tracing them back to their (likely) Welsh roots.
I hope your health improves.
Kind regards,
Aussie

Thanks for the feedback Aussie, it's always tricky to know what to post but thought it worth posting, especially as other researchers will see this thread in years to come. Sorry to hear you've been suffering health problems, we all sincerely wish you well with that; it was for health reasons that got me into finally looking-up my FH and finding this forum abt 6 years ago, it's been really helpful to me.

Yes, the word "horror" was abit over the top, I thought that when I posted it, but it was meant in jest; like you I've often been submerged in confusing facts (and sometimes fiction) and it can be hard to sort the wood from the trees. In this respect I fully agree it's always best to go on proven facts, which is why I often advise forummers to be wary of online trees. When I wrote "thinking" perhaps I should have written "research", it was just a figure of speech intended to reflect your research, which in my case always involves thinking to some degree.

Yes I can see Duckpool is a likely modern placename, as indeed it could have been long ago, but in this instance the evidence I've seen supports Puckpool(e). I see that Arlingham dates back to Domesday, much older than most of the Forest towns and certainly the one's I know, my main area of interest is engineering industry so def not medieval history as this placename might be. Most old place names seem linked to a person, but perhaps in this case it's mythology too ?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Puck_(mythology)
By complete coincidence in October I attended a family wedding at Puckrup Hall near Tewkesbury, didn't give a thought at the time to that name but must now look into it !.
Since schooldays I've been a fan of old maps and associated geography etc and I've long since realised that some of the olde placenames just don't make a lot of "sense" to modern eyes, yet they are what they are (or were, even).

Anyhow, hoping we've been of more help than hindrance, and good luck sorting out your Carters. If it's any consolation, I'm a Jones, the most common surname in the Dean..., and my line weren't too imaginative with their Christian names either ! ;-)

Here's to a Happy and Healthier New Year to you n yours (and all other forummers too of course).

atb Jeff

Doctor John Carter

by aussie @, Tasmania, Australia, Sunday, March 19, 2017, 04:39 (999 days ago) @ Jefff

Thank you, Jeff. Sorry I didn't reply sooner. I had to move house on 20.1.17 and life has been hectic since then.
Thanks again for your help.
Kind regards,
Aussie

Doctor John Carter

by Jefff @, West London, Middlesex, Sunday, March 19, 2017, 13:42 (998 days ago) @ aussie

Thats fine Aussie, no problem at all, but thanks for your kind post.

We're also about to move house, it will be quite a struggle after 25 years in this one, but hopefully well-worth it in the end. Hence I understand completely about your situation, and sincerely hope all is settling-down again for you now and that it was worth all the hard work.
Best wishes with your continued researches, Jeff.

Giles Carter & descendants, of Puckpool Farm, Arlingham

by Jefff @, West London, Middlesex, Saturday, December 31, 2016, 00:05 (1077 days ago) @ Mike Pinchin

Hi Mike,
as intimated by MPG, the National Archives site have many references to the Carters of Arlingham, one of which shows that Giles c1792 was indeed a man of property; this helps clear it up a little.

"This collection relates to the Carter family who were owners or occupiers of Puckpool Farm, Arlingham, from c.1756 to 1938. The property came to the family through the marriage of Giles Carter of Arlingham, yeoman, with Ann Hodges, in 1756. By his will (1792) his widow retained a life interest in the estate, and after her death in 1821, it passed to their eldest son William by whom it was heavily mortgaged. Under the terms of his will (1833) it was inherited by his sons Giles and John. The stock, implements and household furniture were put up for sale in 1864 when John Carter bought most of the lots and settled accounts with his brother. Although the farm was sold to Nathaniel Hawkins in 1888 and came on the market again after his death in 1910, the Carter family continued to farm it as tenants until John William Carter retired in 1938."

http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/rd/9db4334e-539e-4ffa-80d4-0561174f729a

http://www.britishlistedbuildings.co.uk/en-132281-puckpool-farmhouse-arlingham-gloucest...

Giles Carter & descendants, of Puckpool Farm, Arlingham

by Mike Pinchin @, Bedford, England, Monday, January 02, 2017, 00:03 (1075 days ago) @ Jefff

The earliest reference I can find on Ancestry shows there was a CARTER at Puckpool as early as 1682:-

Will of Giles CARTER, 1682:-

In the name of God Amen: I Giles Carter of Puckpool in the Parish of Arlingham in the County and Diocese of Gloucester, Yeoman…………………

Carters (and Preece) of Arlingham, Newnham

by Jefff @, West London, Middlesex, Friday, December 30, 2016, 22:10 (1077 days ago) @ aussie


I have a John Carter from around that era and at this stage I only have three children for him. Does anyone have access to any old books about Arlingham people or genealogy family trees etc (wishful thinking) that might help me get my ancestors sorted, please?

Hi Aussie,
I've today re-read an excellent book by Margaret Willis pub'd 1993 entitled "The Ferry Between Newnham & Arlingham". Despite it's title it also includes a lot of interesting history about the area and it's people and not just the ferry itself, it also lists several cases of drownings but sadly not John Carter in 1794. Similarly the Carter name doesn't appear in these detailed online histories which I suspect you're read,
http://www.british-history.ac.uk/vch/glos/vol10/pp29-36
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arlingham

The "Fisheries" chapter of the above book does mention a later Carter who may be part of your tree ?. Under a photo of a beautiful detached Georgian? house it states

"Castle House, Newnham. This was the home of Maurice Frederic Carter, who was born on 8th April 1826 and was a solicitor from 1848 to 1907. He was also the Coroner for the Forest Division of the County from 1868 to 1907. Maurice died on 25th March 1907. His son Maurice Frederic Carter, and grandson Maurice Fitzgerald Carter, are buried with him in Newnham Churchyard.
Following the Salmon Fishery Act of 1873, boards of Conservators were given guidance by the Home Office. The annual Report of the Severn Fishery Board for 1894 lists the elected members including Maurice Frederic Carter, gentleman of Newnham.
This reference to fisheries, the Severn Fishery Board and it's members for 1895 has been included to show that Mr Carter, who was an executive member as well as being on the Pollution Committee, was well-versed in river law."

The book contains more mentions of Coroner M.F.Carter, especially regarding the tragic drownings of the 2 sons of ferryman Tom Phillips on 17th July 1889. (In fine weather during lunchbreaks the local scholchildren often paddled on the shallow shore of the River. This day Gaius(7) slipped off the sandbank into deep water, his brother Victor(9) tried to save him, but both were swept away and drowned - all in full view of father Tom who's ferry was too far away to help...
(It may interest Peter Preece that Tom Phillips lived in Preece's Alley, Newnham, and that during the enquiry the Ferry Compnay was represented by a "Mr Preece", who I think was named Henry ?).

The book also mentions that in 1894 Mr M.F.Carter formed a committee, with Reverend Bevis (Rector of Arlingham) as vice-chairman, who met at the Victoria Hotel Newnham, to discuss alternative forms of crossing the river. The committee commissioned the firm of Keeling & Reichenbach to survey the River in 1894 with a view to building a bridge; this was Keeling's last major civil engineering project, the bridge was never started thro lack of funding.

Hoping this maybe of interest.
At the very least it seems to me M.F. Carter may well have been knowledgable about the local river and salmon fishing, perhaps inspired by his possible ancestor Doctor John Carter ?...

Also see the final post in this prior thread
http://www.forest-of-dean.net/fodmembers/index.php?mode=thread&id=40671

Maurice Carter is mentioned in the 1868 Slaters Directory of Newnham and in some detail in the 1876 Morris & Co. Directory, he was clearly a respected and influential man in the town.
http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~cbennett/

---------------

From Ancestry I've found the Bishops Transcript of his Baptism;

Name: Maurice Frederick Carter
Baptism Date: 25 Apr 1826
Parish: Gloucester, St Michael, Gloucestershire, England
Father: Joseph Carter, solicitor
Mother: Mary Carter
Register Type: Bishop's Transcripts

Re the term "Doctor" and John Carter, I thought I had another theory about this.

The clear image of the above Baptism entry for Maurice Frederick Carter at first glance appears to read "Maurice Frederic Doctor of " !
Closer scrutiny shows the word is actually an abbreviated form of "Daughter", and not "Doctor". Clearly, the entry should really be "son", but as most of the entries above Maurice were girls hence "Daughter", maybe the minister was having a bad day ?

This made me wonder if the word "Doctor" on some of the Parish Records mentioned elsewhere in this thread is just someone misreading/mis-transcribing a Minister's error ?? HOWEVER, following Peter Preece's lead wrt the Burial PR for Patience Carter DOCTOR buried Arlingham in 1836, I've searched her on Ancestry. Oddly I couldn't find her original records (to check the image), but I did find Tax records for Richard Carter Doctor and Phillimore Carter Doctor in Arlingham in 1809, so looks like this was indeed a genuine surname. Also see Mike Pinchin's post.
By searching Patience CARTER instead of DOCTOR I found her 1836 Burial PR on Ancestry... ??!!. Yet the actual PR clearly shows her as Carter Doctor, whereas her baptism shows just CARTER. A public tree has her father as William Carter born 1779 in Arlingham, and his father as Philemon Carter b1734 in Arlingham, NO mention of Doctor. ???

The 1841 Census shows Maurice Carter and family still in Gloucester city. The 1851 shows father Joseph is born Wheatenhurst, so not too far from Arlingham..., and living with wife and children (not Maurice) in St Mary de Crypt, Gloucester. I cannot find Maurice on the 1851 Census. He marries in Newnham in 1847, while still resident in Gloucester, his wife is from Westbury on Severn, full PR in this site's database. So on the face of it, M.F.Carter may not be a direct(ish) descendant of John, ah well..

----------------------

Ref Castle (formerly Banksian) House, apparently it's still there in Newnham High Street, seemingly on a rise overlooking the River. Thanks to Aussie I now know that a Norman castle was built at Newnham, soon after 1066 !
http://www.gatehouse-gazetteer.info/English%20sites/1226.html
http://www.britishlistedbuildings.co.uk/en-353959-the-castle-house-newnham-gloucestersh...

Carters (and Preece) of Arlingham, Newnham

by aussie @, Tasmania, Australia, Saturday, December 31, 2016, 22:38 (1076 days ago) @ Jefff

Hi Jeff,
Wow, that's very interesting and sad. Some of my FRYER/FRYAR ancestors were from Newnham. I will read about the Castle later when I have more time. Thanks so much!
I didn't disagree about the existence of the surname DOCTOR. It just didn't show up on the digital image of the burial as a surname, nor did it show up on the Ancestry search results as a surname when I search for my John CARTER. So in the case of John CARTER Dr. It appears to be a title whether he earnt or inherited it remains to be seen and proven.
Cheers,
Aussie

Doctor John Carter

by Todd, Monday, May 08, 2017, 21:36 (948 days ago) @ aussie

Dr John Carters brother William b1779 Arlingham was my 3*gt grandfather. His son Joseph Denton Carter moved to Tirley Glos in 1840s.Johns5*. Gt grandfaather Was Richard Carter 1594-1656 a physician from Arlingham and for some reason they continued to use the title until the 1840s.I hadnt seen the inquest before I joined this site,what a terrible thing to have happened.Throughout the records they are referrred to as dr,Doctor ,of the physicians etc.Im not sure if you know that Johns gravestone is at Arlingham Church still decipherable and includes other family members.His Grandfather Thomas Carter d1767 is in a nearby vault still decipherable but the rendering wont last much longer.My tree is on Ancestry under Toddc50.As regards the Puckpool Carters I can as yet find no blood link with the Doctor Carters, only a couple of inter marraiges .The earliest Parish Register mention I can see for them is an almost indecipherable entry for 9-4-1620`````?daughter of Richard Carter of Puckpoole.

Doctor John Carter

by aussie @, Tasmania, Australia, Thursday, May 18, 2017, 10:19 (939 days ago) @ Todd

Hi Todd, Thank you very much for your reply and interesting information. I am into my extension time for a university assignment which was originally due on 10.5.17. I've had a quick look on Ancestry but can't find a public family tree called toddc50. Is it private or has it been removed? I'll write again asap. Kind regards, Aussie

Dr John Carters brother William b1779 Arlingham was my 3*gt grandfather. His son Joseph Denton Carter moved to Tirley Glos in 1840s.Johns5*. Gt grandfaather Was Richard Carter 1594-1656 a physician from Arlingham and for some reason they continued to use the title until the 1840s.I hadnt seen the inquest before I joined this site,what a terrible thing to have happened.Throughout the records they are referrred to as dr,Doctor ,of the physicians etc.Im not sure if you know that Johns gravestone is at Arlingham Church still decipherable and includes other family members.His Grandfather Thomas Carter d1767 is in a nearby vault still decipherable but the rendering wont last much longer.My tree is on Ancestry under Toddc50.As regards the Puckpool Carters I can as yet find no blood link with the Doctor Carters, only a couple of inter marraiges .The earliest Parish Register mention I can see for them is an almost indecipherable entry for 9-4-1620`````?daughter of Richard Carter of Puckpoole.

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