Sir Richard Whittington (General)

by Dlg @, Thursday, September 21, 2017, 15:13 (27 days ago)

Removed

Florence PEATES' parents => mother Florence RM WHITTINGTON

by Jefff @, West London, Middlesex, Thursday, September 21, 2017, 16:55 (27 days ago) @ Dlg

Hi, welcome back to this great site & forum.
I've tried searching the forum for old posts or threads which mention your grandmother's name, but I'm afraid I haven't yet found anything.
There have been numerous threads over the years abt the various Richard Whittingtons.

Please if possible can you give any more information you have, such as where your grandmother lived, her approximate birth / marriage dates, and so on.

In the meantime & using the free-to-access FreeBMD site I've found this marriage, it seems a good fit but please confirm if you think it is your grandmother wrt date and place, thanks.

Surname First name(s) Spouse District Vol Page
Marriages Jun 1937 (>99%)
Baker Frederick E Peates Stroud 6a 1033
Peates Florence L M Baker Stroud 6a 1033


https://www.freebmd.org.uk/cgi/search.pl

Now we have a date we can search this marriage on GlosBMD site, and find;

Groom Surname Groom Forename Bride Surname Bride Forename District Parish Building Year Register Entry
BAKER Frederick Eli PEATES Florence Lavinia May Stroud Stroud Register Office 1937 RR/3A 2

http://ww3.gloucestershire.gov.uk/bmd/MarriageSearch.aspx

So it was a Registry Office wedding, which helps explain why there isn't a record within this FoDFH site's PRs database (PR = Parish aka Church Record). If you were to buy a copy of the Marriage Certificate, as well as an exact date and details of occupation, you might get their parent's names etc.

Back to FreeBMD to search a Birth record, luckily they're not commonplace names, so we can find;

Surname First name(s) Mother/Spouse/Age District Vol Page
Births Jun 1916 (>99%)
Peates Florence L M Whittington Westbury S 6a 479

GlosBMD confirms;

Child Surname Child Forename Mother's Former Name Year District Office Register Entry
PEATES Florence Lavinia May WHITTINGTON 1916 Forest of Dean Westbury on Severn, East Dean 23 250

Which suggests this is your lady given her mother was a Whittington and apparently from/in East Dean district. It's a shame for us she's born after the 1911 Census, the most recent one we can access, as that's a tremendous aid to finding her parents and siblings.

Now trying to find a marriage for her parents, by searching FreeBMD for all Peates/Whittington marriages. This is clearly a rare name combination - for the whole of the UK I can only find the following records, which clearly fit, and suggest your Grandmother Florence was their first daughter as named after her mother Florence R.M.

Surname First name(s) Spouse District Vol Page
Marriages Jun 1914 (>99%)
PEATES Edward Whittington Westbury S. 6a 677
WHITTINGTON Florence R M Peates Westbury S. 6a 677

Also found these later records which MAY be relevant to this thread.

Surname First name(s) Spouse District Vol Page
Marriages Dec 1974 (>99%)
PEATES TERRENCE R WHITTINGTON F OF DEAN 22 1358
WHITTINGTON ANNE PEATES F OF DEAN 22 1358

Surname First name(s) Spouse District Vol Page
Marriages Dec 1974 (>99%)
LEVER LESLIE G WHITTINGTON F OF DEAN 22 1358
WHITTINGTON JANE S LEVER F OF DEAN 22 1358

---

The 1914 marriage record is confirmed by GlosBMD, which helpfully adds more detail;

Groom Surname Groom Forename Bride Surname Bride Forename District Parish Building Year Register Entry
PEATES Edward WHITTINGTON Florence Rose Miriam Forest of Dean Westbury-on-Severn (FoD) Register Office [Closed] 1914 16 45

Searching this FoDFH site's PRs, we find this Florence's baptism record and hence parents. This should help us trace the line right back thro the census' etc.

Record_ID: 107714
Entry_Number: 186
Year: 1891
Month: May
Day: 13
Parents_Surname: WHITTINGTON
Child_Forenames: Florence Rose Miriam
Fathers_Forenames: Frederick
Mothers_Forenames: Eliza Ann
Mothers_Surname:
Residence: Ruardean Hill
Occupation: Coal Miner
Officiating_Minister: G H Kirkham Curate
Event: Baptism
Memoranda:
Notes:
Register_Reference: P109 IN 1/5
Page_Number: 24
Parish_Chapel: Drybrook
Soundex: W352


Using the excellent and free-to-access FamilySearch site can look for this family in the Census's. https://www.familysearch.org/

This example shows Florence Rose Miriam was known as Miriam, perhaps to avoid confusion with Flossie ?;

1911, East Dean, Drybrook, Gloucestershire, England
Household Role Sex Age Birthplace
Fred Whittington Head M 46 Collier. Brireley, Gloucestershire
Eliza Whittington Wife F 44 Ruardean Hill, Gloucestershire
Miriam Whittington Daughter F 20 Factory. Ruardean Hill, Gloucestershire
Ida Whittington Daughter F 17 Factory. Ruardean Hill, Gloucestershire
Flossie Whittington Daughter F 15 Factory. Ruardean Hill, Gloucestershire
Maurice Whittington Son M 13 Coal screens labourer above ground. Ruardean Hill, Gloucestershire
Doris Whittington Daughter F 11 School. Ruardean Hill, Gloucestershire
Fred Whittington Son M 7 Ruardean Hill, Gloucestershire


1901, Ruardean Hill, East Dean, Gloucestershire, England
Household Role Sex Age Birthplace
Frederick Whittington Head M 39 Coal Hewer Below Ground. East Dean, Gloucestershire
Eliza Whittington Wife F 33 East Dean, Gloucestershire
John Whittington Son M 13 Belt Boy Below Ground. East Dean, Gloucestershire
Minnie Whittington Daughter F 10 East Dean, Gloucestershire
Ida Whittington Daughter F 7 East Dean, Gloucestershire
Flossie Whittington Daughter F 5 East Dean, Gloucestershire
Morris Whittington Son M 3 East Dean, Gloucestershire
Doris Whittington Daughter F 1 East Dean, Gloucestershire

(I presume "Minnie" is Miriam ?, I cannot see the actual image to check)


1891, Ruardean Hill, East Dean, Gloucestershire, England
Household Role Sex Age Birthplace
Frederick Whittington Head M 27 Coal miner. Gloucestershire, England
Eliza A Whittington Wife F 27 Gloucestershire, England
John J Whittington Son M 3 Gloucestershire, England
Mary Preece Mother In Law F 56 Widow. Monmouthshire, Llanethley

The Census was taken a few months before Miriam was born.


How does this look so far, does it seem familiar to your old researches ?.
Jeff.

Florence PEATE's husband - Frederick Eli BAKER b1911 Stroud

by Jefff @, West London, Middlesex, Thursday, September 21, 2017, 17:36 (27 days ago) @ Jefff

Now searching FreeBMD for Frederick Baker, luckily again Eli is an unusual name (compared to say Edward etc), so we quickly find this helpful record;

Surname First name(s) Mother/Spouse/DoB District Vol Page
Deaths Mar 1970 (>99%)
BAKER Frederick Eli 12De1911 Gloucester C 7b 1359

So his Birth date is believed to be 12 December 1911. A helpful record but sadly he's not going to be found in the 1911 Census taken just 9 months earlier. However knowing his birthdate means we can revisit FreeBMD. For Births after 1911 the FreeBMD records only gives the initials of second names, and there are several Frederick E Bakers listed, but knowing the date and place we can be fairly confident this record is our man. The big advantage with FreeBMD Birth records after 1911 is they also now include the mother's maiden name !

Surname First name(s) Mother District Vol Page
Births Mar 1912 (>99%)
Baker Frederick E Chamberlain Stroud 6a 619

(Note: this record shows his birth was registered during the Jan/Feb/March quarter of 1912, it's entirely plausible he was actually born in late 1911 and they waited until after the busy Christmas time and maybe bad weather before going to register).

This record is confirmed by GlosBMD site;
Birth Details
Child Surname Child Forename Mother's Former Name Year District Office Register Entry
BAKER Frederick Eli CHAMBERLAIN 1911 Stroud Stroud, Stonehouse 21 13

Now trying to find a marriage of his parents, by searching the FreeBMD site for all Baker/Chamberlain marriages, I'm surprised to find this is not anything like as unusual a name combination as I thought it might be, and cannot find any obvious ones in our area.
???

HOWEVER I can use the same FreeBMD site to search for all births to these parents, especially in the Stroud area. There may be other siblings who were born before 1911, but for Baker/Chamberlain in Stroud district can find these, hopefully you may recognise some of the names ?.

Surname First name(s) Mother District Vol Page

Births Mar 1912 (>99%)
Baker Frederick E Chamberlain Stroud 6a 619

Births Dec 1912 (>99%)
Baker Annie E Chamberlain Stroud 6a 586

Births Dec 1913 (>99%)
BAKER Grace D M Chamberlain Stroud 6a 607

Births Mar 1916 (>99%)
Baker Albert R C Chamberlain Stroud 6a 554

Florence PEATE's husband - Frederick Eli BAKER b1911 Stroud

by Dlg @, Friday, September 22, 2017, 09:31 (26 days ago) @ Jefff

Removed

Florence PEATE's husband - Frederick Eli BAKER b1911 Stroud

by Dlg @, Friday, September 22, 2017, 16:04 (26 days ago) @ Dlg

Removed

Florence PEATE's husband - Frederick Eli BAKER b1911 Stroud

by Jefff @, West London, Middlesex, Friday, September 22, 2017, 19:09 (26 days ago) @ Dlg

Hi Dlg,
thanks so much for your replies, and your kind words, I just hope my findings are all completely correct as sometimes it's easy to go off at a tangent and make silly errors. It's really nice to hear abt your family and the area, I envy you living and driving around such an attractive part of the country (I have cousins living near you), I'm in traffic-locked West London so not quite so enjoyable.
I'll have a proper look at that link later-on.
Meanwhile have you seen this one, about the Spa pub from the excellent GlosPubs site, the page includes your Frederick Baker within the list of past landlords.
http://www.gloucestershirepubs.co.uk/AllGlosPubsDatabase/RAIGConnection.php?pubid1=0782

Thanks again.

atb Jeff

ps please don't forget to spend some time searching the rest of this great website, such as the old Documents, newspaper articles, pnotos and so on. Although your area is on the extreme edge of the Forest of Dean there will hopefully still be some items to interest you, as of course there will be about Pauntley and Dick Whittington.

Florence RM WHITTINGTON's parents & Grandparents

by Jefff @, West London, Middlesex, Thursday, September 21, 2017, 21:48 (27 days ago) @ Jefff

Revisiting FreeBMD to search for the marriage of Florence Rose Miriam Whittington's parents, this seems a possible fit.

Surname First name(s) District Vol Page
Marriages Dec 1883 (>99%)
PREECE Eliza Ann Westbury S. 6a 483
WHITTINGTON Frederick Westbury S. 6a 483

GlosBMD confirms this is another Registry Office marriage, so unfortunately no church PR so no more clues as to their parents, ages, etc, without buying the certificate.

Groom Surname Groom Forename Bride Surname Bride Forename District Parish Building Year Register Entry
WHITTINGTON Frederick PREECE Eliza Ann Forest of Dean Westbury-on-Severn (FoD) Register Office [Closed] 1883 7 125

---

Altho Fred's name is only a very rough fit, given his Brierley birthplace/date I'm drawn to this next Census record c/o FamilySearch site. Especially as Fred's 1891 census (previous post) suggested his first son was John, perhaps he was named after his father Fred ??

1871 Census, East Dean, Glos, England.
Household Role Sex Age Birthplace
Joseph Whittington Head M 40 Collier. Lydbrook, Gloucestershire
Lydia Whittington Wife F 40 Ruardean, Gloucestershire
Thomas Whittington Son M 16 Brierley, Gloucestershire
George Whittington Son M 14 Brierley, Gloucestershire
Trypene Whittington Daughter F 11 Brierley, Gloucestershire
J F Whittington Son M 9 Brierley, Gloucestershire
Leonard Whittington Son M 6 Brierley, Gloucestershire
Amy B Whittington Daughter F 4 Brierley, Gloucestershire
Alice Whittington Daughter F 2 Brierley, Gloucestershire

Revisiting this FoDFH PRs, searching for Fred & Eliza Ann's son "John J Whittington" born abt 1887 (as per their 1891 Census posted earlier), I find this Baptism which seems a good fit in all respects !

Record_ID: 16461
Entry_Number: 1523
Year: 1887
Month: Sep
Day: 18
Parents_Surname: WHITTINGTON
Child_Forenames: John James
Fathers_Forenames: John Frederick
Mothers_Forenames: Eliza Ann
Mothers_Surname:
Residence: Ruardean Hill
Occupation: Coal Miner
Officiating_Minister: F.L.Julian Curate
Event: Baptism
Memoranda:
Notes:
Register_Reference: PFC109 IN 1/4
Page_Number: 191
Parish_Chapel: Drybrook
Soundex: W352

Similarly these records both appear to be John James' father John Frederick (aka "Fred" who was born Brierley abt 1862 according to the above 1871 & 1911 census.

Record_ID: 78354
Entry_Number: 1573
Year: 1861
Month: Oct
Day: 13
Parents_Surname: WHITTINGTON
Child_Forenames: John Frederick
Fathers_Forenames: Joseph
Mothers_Forenames: Lydia
Mothers_Surname:
Residence: Brierley
Occupation: Collier
Officiating_Minister: William Lockett
Event: Baptism
Memoranda:
Notes:
Register_Reference: P109 IN 1/2
Page_Number: 198
Parish_Chapel: Drybrook
Soundex: W352


Record_ID: 250069
Entry_Number: 1578
Year: 1933
Month: Feb
Day: 15
Surname: WHITTINGTON
Forenames: John Frederick
Residence: Ruardean Hill
Age_at_death: 71 years
Officiating_Minister: George R Newman Vicar
Event: Burial
Cause_of_death:
Memoranda:
Notes:
Register_Reference: P109 IN 1/14
Page_No: 198
Parish_Chapel: Drybrook
Soundex: W352

----

Back to his parents, following on from 1871 Census posted above,

1861 Census, ??? Hill, Holy Trinity Parish, Glos.
Household Role Sex Age Birthplace
Joseph Wittington Head M 31 Coal miner. West Dean, Gloucestershire
Lydia Wittington Wife F 30 ..., Gloucestershire
Rhoda Wittington Daughter F 9 East Dean, Gloucestershire
Thomas Wittington Son M 6 East Dean, Gloucestershire
George Wittington Son M 7 East Dean, Gloucestershire
Tryfana Wittington Daughter F 1 East Dean, Gloucestershire


Transcript unclear as to which "Hill" is their residence, but Holy Trinity implies Drybrook aka "Forest Church", so the Hill maybe Harrow or more likely Ruardean Hill.

FreeBMD has this possible Marriage Record;
Surname First name(s) District Vol Page
Marriages Sep 1854 (>99%)
Mason Lydia Westbury S. 6a 343
Wittington Joseph Westbury S 6a 343

Which is confirmed by GlosBMD as probably our couple given the actual Church
Groom Surname Groom Forename Bride Surname Bride Forename District Parish Building Year Register Entry
WHITTINGTON Joseph MASON Lydia Forest of Dean Drybrook Holy Trinity 1854 1 144

Eventually found this Marriage PR;

Record_ID: 4187
Entry_Number: 144
Year: 1854
Month: Aug
Day: 27
Grooms_Surname: WHITTINGTON
Grooms_Forenames: Jospeh
Grooms_Age: 25
Groom_Condition: Bachelor
Grooms_Occupation: Collier
Grooms_Residence: Bisley
Grooms_Fathers_Surname: Whittington
Grooms_Fathers_Forenames: Thomas
Grooms_Fathers_Occupation: Miner
Brides_Surname: MASON
Brides_Forenames: Lydia
Brides_Age: 24
Brides_Condition: Spinster
Brides_Occupation:
Brides_Residence: Bisley
Brides_Fathers_Surname: Mason
Brides_Fathers_Forenames: George
Brides_Fathers_Occupation: Stone Cutter
Licence_or_Banns: :
Date_of_Banns:
Signature_or_Mark: He Mark She Signs
Witness_1: Thomas Whittington
Witness_2: Rebekah Mason
Other_Witnesses:
Officiating_Minister: Henry G Nicholls
Event: Marriage
Memoranda:
Notes:
Register_Reference: P109 IN 1/6
Page_Number: 72
Parish_Chapel: Drybrook
Soundex_Groom: W352
Soundex_Bride: M250

This site's PRs also includes baptisms for four more of their children, all at Drybrook (Holy Trinity) church.

Florence RM WHITTINGTON's grandad JOSEPH WHITTINGTON b1831

by Jefff @, West London, Middlesex, Friday, September 22, 2017, 01:06 (27 days ago) @ Jefff

I cannot find any Birth record or Baptism PR for Joseph Whittington born abt 1831, but this looks like him with his parents;

1851 Census, ???, Westbury on Severn District, Glos.
Household Role Sex Age Birthplace
Thomas Whitington Head M 58 Collier. Lydrook, Gloucestershire
Ann Whitington Wife F 57 Macon, Carmarthenshire
Richard Whitington Son M 22 Collier. St Briavels, Gloucestershire
Joseph Whitington Son M 20 Collier. St Briavels, Gloucestershire
Harriet Whitington Daughter F 18 St Briavels, Gloucestershire
Thomas Whitington Son M 15 Collier. St Briavels, Gloucestershire


1841 Census, White Hall House, English Bicknor, Glos.
Household Role Sex Age Birthplace
Thomas Whittington M 45-49 Gloucestershire
Anne Whittington F 45-49
Richard Whittington M 15-19 Gloucestershire
Joseph Whittington M 12 Gloucestershire
Harriet Whittington F 8 Gloucestershire
Thomas Whittington M 6 Gloucestershire


These old threads discuss this same family.
http://www.forest-of-dean.net/fodmembers/index.php?mode=thread&id=35647
http://www.forest-of-dean.net/fodmembers/index.php?id=24942


However I'm unsure as to any connections between these Whittingtons of Lydbrook area, and Dick Whittington's own family in Pauntley nr Newent 300 years earlier.
??
http://www.forest-of-dean.net/fodmembers/index.php?id=28602

And here's another thread about THE Dick Whittington which is hopefully relevant. The last post reminds me of my own childhood confusion regarding a Mayor Whittington my dad knew, and the pantomime character all us kids knew, this was long before I learnt that Dick was a real chap AND a Glostershire lad to boot !
http://www.forest-of-dean.net/fodmembers/index.php?id=35764

Florence RM WHITTINGTON's parents & Grandparents

by Dlg @, Friday, September 22, 2017, 01:42 (27 days ago) @ Jefff

Removed

Florence RM WHITTINGTON's parents & Grandparents

by Jefff @, West London, Middlesex, Friday, September 22, 2017, 19:18 (26 days ago) @ Dlg

Thank you so much for all of your information, I was wondering if you still have the write up about how he proved his pedigree? Written by Michael Whittington? I think the book was called preece/Whittington/peates. You have been so helpful Jeff, I am so grateful thank you.

I'm afraid I don't have that book, in fact I've never heard of it. I'e just tried to find reference to it on the internet but without any luck at all, sorry. Was it actually published as a book/pamphlet, if so maybe enquiring at your local library will help ?.
If not maybe another forum member will know, or maybe the forum/website;s Admin team ? Please remember that I'm just a forum member like yourself, eager to try and help others if I can, but with no expert skills and certainly no speciallist knowledge of your Whittington etc families. All I've posted I've gained from online database sources.
atb J

Florence RM WHITTINGTON's parents & Grandparents

by nimrod, Monday, October 09, 2017, 14:50 (9 days ago) @ Jefff

There is a book The Whittington Story by Michael Whittington published in 1988. It might be in the main Gloucester library or the Gloucestershire Archives. Looking through the index I can see no reference to your families.

Florence PEATES' parents => mother Florence RM WHITTINGTON

by nimrod, Monday, October 09, 2017, 15:08 (9 days ago) @ Jefff

P.S. However, there is a chapter entitled, In the Forest of Dean. William Whittington lived at St Briavels and died in 1665. A Robert Whittington proved his pedigree at the Visitation of the County of Gloucester in 1569, held at the Gloucestershire Archives.

There early family trees in the book.

Nimrod

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