Forest miners going to Wigan (Parish Records)

by Megan @, Cheltenham, Monday, January 22, 2018, 18:19 (689 days ago)

Has anyone else had family members going from the Forest to Wigan in Lancs to be a miner between 1871 & 1901 ?
My great Grandfather, Joseph Peart went to Wigan between the 1871 census and the 1901 census with his wife and 2 children. They lived in a few different addresses during that time. He was listed as a miner on the census's so were the children, when old enough. His wife's father James Lewis died in 1895, so I am assuming they returned around that time as she was an only child, to look after her mother.
Any information would be appreciated.
Megan Hastelow

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M Hastelow

Forest miners going to Wigan

by Jefff @, West London, Middlesex, Tuesday, January 23, 2018, 00:15 (689 days ago) @ Megan

Hi Megan,
by careful word-searching of this forum we can find several cases of miners moving from the FoD to Wigan, or vice-versa, to find work. I don't know whether this was due to word-of mouth, or perhaps encouraged by newspaper articles or adverts placed by collieries needing workers. Here are links to some of these prior threads, hopefully they will interest you. The first is for a William PEART who was born in Wigan but by 1911 was a settled familyman in Yorkley.
http://forum.forest-of-dean.net/index.php?id=34921
http://forum.forest-of-dean.net/index.php?id=46954
http://forum.forest-of-dean.net/index.php?id=33082
http://forum.forest-of-dean.net/index.php?id=35179
http://forum.forest-of-dean.net/index.php?id=29204
http://forum.forest-of-dean.net/index.php?id=24655

Forest miners going to Wigan

by Megan @, Cheltenham, Tuesday, January 23, 2018, 17:15 (688 days ago) @ Jefff

Thanks again Jeff,
have now studied the links (was in a rush this morning !) and it seams quite a few families went to Ince , Wigan including mine....I will have to get to Cinderford soon and check the papers for adverts. Regards Megan

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M Hastelow

Forest miners going to Wigan

by Jefff @, West London, Middlesex, Tuesday, January 23, 2018, 19:51 (688 days ago) @ Megan

Hi Megan,
thanks for posting, you are very welcome of course. Also thanks for your other post on this PHIPPS thread explaining how the Wigan mines were actively sending Overseers to the FoD searching for miners to move north.
http://www.forest-of-dean.net/fodmembers/index.php?id=49229

Regarding your potential search of the local newspapers at Cinderford (Presumably the "DF Mercury" which is not yet online), I have just tried a quick search of the BNA site which holds the Gloucester Citizen which of course coveres the FoD. I was a VERY quick look, but thus-far I've found no adverts etc relating to Wigan, hopefully you may have better luck. Similarly, the excellent and free-to-access Welsh Newspapers site has not yet given any clear hits, altho' I msut say I was surprised by just how many references there are to the mines of Wigan including Ince, even including an article stating how a Church in Wigan started holding Sunday Services in the Welsh language in 1889, presumably due to demand from Welsh miners who had moved there.

Also very apparent was what at first glance seems a high number of mining disasters occurring in the Wigan area, which of course sadly created demand for more miners. Now maybe the Wigan mines were no different than other areas, I've not researched this thoroughly, altho the Lancashire coalfield was prone to explosions due to gases which were not present in the FoD mines, and at one time was the worst in the UK.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lancashire_Coalfield#Mining_disasters

I wonder if it also suggests the rapid expansion of the Lancs coalfield (far bigger than the FoD for example), meant that a higher percentage of their homegrown miners or even owners were not the best, hence needed more experienced or wiser men from other areas such as the FoD with a longer background in mining ?
http://newspapers.library.wales/home

Finally, on the general subject of local men moving to Wigan for work, thanks for your posts which reminded me to update the forum regarding Lewis Bradley, see
http://www.forest-of-dean.net/fodmembers/index.php?id=49235

J

Forest miners going to Wigan

by andrewbaldwin @, Gloucester, Tuesday, January 23, 2018, 15:40 (688 days ago) @ Megan

Hi Megan
Joseph And Sarah are my Great Grand Parents also
I have them as moving to Wigan in 1878, 1 year after they were married & their first son Charles was born. I have them returning around 95. But my record differs on James Death I have an Inquest & Burial for him in 99. My Grandmother was their daughter Edith.

Andy

Forest miners going to Wigan

by JaneyH @, Tunbridge Wells, Kent, Thursday, January 25, 2018, 20:06 (686 days ago) @ Megan

I, too, have a Forest of Dean miner in my family tree who moved to the Lancashire coalfields.

Henry Bowdler (1851-1929) was a 3x great uncle of mine and born in Sutton/Flaxley depending on which records you look at. The 1881 Census shows him as a coalminer living in Stockwell Green near Newnham with his young family. The 1891 Census shows Henry as a collier with his family living in Atherton, Lancashire - a few miles to the east of Wigan. Come 1901 he is back in the Forest of Dean - a coal hewer, along with his eldest son - and living in Soudley.

Move forward to the 1911 Census and he and his family have once again moved north, back to Atherton. Now aged 60, Henry is shown as a "chip and fish dealer" (yes, that way round). One unmarried son and one married son living with Henry and his wife are both working in the coal mines. Henry died in Leigh, Lancashire, in 1929, aged 78.

Intriguingly, I have a DNA match on Ancestry to a person who has ancestors in Atherton and Wigan. Initially I ignored this as none of the surnames rang any bells. However, I've recently got in touch with a cousin of mine who shares my Forest of Dean family line and his DNA also matches to this person. Guess what's top of my to-do list this weekend!

Forest miners going to Wigan

by Jefff @, West London, Middlesex, Thursday, January 25, 2018, 22:05 (686 days ago) @ JaneyH

Henry Bowdler (1851-1929) was a 3x great uncle of mine and born in Sutton/Flaxley depending on which records you look at. The 1881 Census shows him as a coalminer living in Stockwell Green near Newnham with his young family.

Hi again Janey,
I would have emailed you the following tiny detail offline but it appears you don't want to receive direct emails - or at least the envelope icon doesn't display against your name ?.

I'm pleased you also have some Wigan ancestors, intriguing isn't it.

I stand to be corrected (I often am !), but I think I'm right in saying that your Henry wasn't living in or even particularly near Newnham in 1881. I cannot find a "Stockwell Green" near there, but I do know there is such an address in the "old" end of Cinderford near St John's Church, so very near Ruspidge then Soudley etc. I've looked-up Henry on the 1881 Census and it states "East Dean", which infers Cinderford or the immediate surrounds such as Drybrook or maybe Littledean. As I'm sure you know Newnham is abt 3 miles from Cinderford and is down on the Severn. They are separate Registration Districts.
https://www.ukbmd.org.uk/reg/districts/forest%20of%20dean.html

I'm sure this is probably just a "typo" on your part, but thought I'd mention it just in case.

Before posting I searched to see if Henry has been covered on old threads in the forum, as didn't want to tell you what you already knew. I cannot find him, but I did find this sad mention of another Henry Bowdler who I suspect is in your tree. It was posted before you joined the forum, so I wondered if you've seen it, a rather unusual and very sad tale...
http://forum.forest-of-dean.net/index.php?id=16676

Hoping this is of interest, J.

Forest miners going to Wigan

by JaneyH @, Tunbridge Wells, Kent, Thursday, January 25, 2018, 23:40 (686 days ago) @ Jefff

Jefff (and others) -

I certainly didn't intend to be uncontactable by email, and have now put this right in my profile. Indeed, I'm always up for nuggets of information or new leads that may help with my family history research! If it hadn't been for having a public tree on Ancestry I would never have heard from my 'new' cousin in the USA.

As to Henry Bowdler and Stockwell Green, I don't know why my notes said "near Newnham", and have corrected them accordingly. While I've certainly gained some knowledge of the geography of the area from my research I only have a passing knowledge of current towns and villages, far less those from the 19th century. I did visit the Forest back in 2014 and enjoyed my brief stay enormously. I was unprepared for the sense of 'connecting' with a place where my ancestors lived, and certainly plan to visit again.

I hadn't seen the newspaper article about the death of Henry Bowdler, son of Joseph and Emily in 1881. However Joseph was a 3x great-uncle of mine so yes, this is part of my family tree. I'm still confused by the age at death though - the GRO index says 11 years whereas the burial register is quite clear in stating 11 months. Another thing to follow up!

Thanks again, Jane

Forest miners going to Wigan

by Jefff @, West London, Middlesex, Friday, January 26, 2018, 01:50 (686 days ago) @ JaneyH

Glad we could help a little Janey, I guessed the email was an oversight.
Also glad you enjoyed your visit to the Forest. Sadly I've not lived there for 30 years, but my mum and one of my sisters is still in Cinderford, despite the town being somewhat "tired" these days compared to it's prosperity in my childhood, the people are still friendly salt-of-the-Earth and I love them. For some reason the Stockwell Green address has stuck in my memory since we went to Cub Scouts there in the early 70s, next to the St Johns vicarage playing field.
This 1883 map shows it was almost detached from modern-day Cinderford, which of course was itself originally centred on Cinderford Bridge hence St John's being the town's first large Church.
http://maps.nls.uk//view/101453397

I think the GRO have just made an error twixt years & months with Henry. GlosBMD are clear about his birth if not his death, also his parent's marriage. Of course his age may have been recorded incorrectly when registered.

Marriage Details
Groom Surname Groom Forename Bride Surname Bride Forename District Parish Building Year Register Entry
BOWDLER Joseph MARTIN Emily Forest of Dean Westbury-on-Severn (FoD) Register Office 1873 5 37

Birth Details
Child Surname Child Forename Mother's Former Name Year District Office Register Entry
BOWDLER Henry MARTIN 1880 Forest of Dean Westbury on Severn, Newnham 47 83

Death Details
Surname Given Names Age Year Died District Register Entry
BOWDLER Henry 11 1881 Westbury on Severn, Newnham 23 479


There are a couple of "possibles" for his mother Emily Martin, but I suspect this one;

Birth Details
Child Surname Child Forename Mother's Former Name Year District Office Register Entry
MARTIN Emily CARTER 1857 Forest of Dean Westbury on Severn, Newnham 17 384

-----------

Her POSSIBLE parent's ?
Marriage Details
Groom Surname Groom Forename Bride Surname Bride Forename District Parish Building Year Register Entry
MARTIN John CARTER Mary Caroline Forest of Dean Westbury-on-Severn (FoD) Register Office 1855 2 5


1861 Newnham Street, Newnham, Gloucestershire, England
Household Role Sex Age Birthplace
John Martin Head M 31 Shoemaker. ..., Gloucestershire
Mary Caroline Martin Wife F 30 Arlingham, Gloucestershire
Thomas Albert Martin Son M 6 Newnham, Gloucestershire
Francis William Martin Son M 1 Newnham, Gloucestershire

(Where's Emily ?. I'm using FamilySearch, otherwise would view neighbours' households etc ?)

Record_ID: 11267
Entry_Number: 392
Year: 1830
Month: Dec
Day: 26
Parents_Surname: CARTER
Child_Forenames: Mary Caroline
Fathers_Forenames: Thomas
Mothers_Forenames: Anne
Mothers_Surname:
Residence: Arlingham
Occupation: Butcher
Officiating_Minister: John Sayer
Event: Baptism
Memoranda:
Notes:
Register_Reference: P18 IN 1/7
Page_Number: 49
Parish_Chapel: Arlingham
Soundex: C636


Cannot easily find the family in the Census before Emily's marriage, this may be why, from GlosBMD;


Death Details
Surname Given Names Age Year Died District Register Entry
MARTIN Mary Caroline 40 1870 Gloucester, South Hamlet 15 258


1871 South, Gloucester, Barton St Mary, Gloucestershire, England
Household Role Sex Age Birthplace
John Martin Head M 41 Shoemaker. Crewe, Cheshire
Jane Martin Wife F 41 Churchdown, Gloucestershire
Sarah J G Martin Daughter F 17 Servant. Gloucester, Gloucestershire
Thomas A Martin Son M 15 Shoemaker. Newham, Gloucestershire
F W Martin Son M 11 Scholar. Newham, Gloucestershire
Albert T G Martin Son M 11 Scholar. Cheltenham, Gloucestershire

Marriage Details
Groom Surname Groom Forename Bride Surname Bride Forename District Parish Building Year Register Entry
MARTIN John HILL Jane Gloucester Gloucester Register Office 1871 7 38
MARTIN John GAZE Jane Gloucester Gloucester Register Office 1871 7 38

Beginning to wonder if this is Emily's family now, but cannot seem to find her anywhere with certainty on the 1861 & 1871 Census, so ??

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