French and Bullock - updated thread (General)
I have got myself into a muddle while looking for my French ancestors and wonder if someone has pointers to help me where I have gone wrong. If this forum is not correct for this query then please let me know.
Charles Bullock of WOS married Mary Ann French (full age) on 26 May 1856 Newham. The wedding information shows Mary Ann's father as John French.
I did pay a researcher to help and she located in 1841 a Mary French age 35 living with William French 15, Mary French 8 (My Mary?) and Thomas French 2. They are living with a Charles Cooper, widower with 3 children.
In 1851 and 1861 she has children named French and Cooper and records show she married Charles Cooper in 1844.
My problem is finding the parents of Mary (Ann) French who in 1841 is 8 - born 1806 (?)
For some reason and I cannot find my notes that explain why - I have recorded the parents of Mary Ann French as Joseph French and Ann Bodey - obviously this is not correct? as her marriage certificate says her father is John.
I'm not sure how to progress. Do I take it that her father is definitely John, and in the absence of my notes as to why I thought it was Joseph - just forget about Joseph.
I know it sounds odd but I am usually so careful at checking before I put people in my tree that I am loath to just tip out Joseph and Ann and yet it seems I have to do this and concentrate on John.
Any suggestions would be appreciated.
French and Bullock, Westbury o Severn / Newnham, c1860s
by Jefff 
, West London, Middlesex, Thursday, March 15, 2018, 01:43 (2233 days ago) @ Mai
Hi Mai,
fear not, you're in the right forum, hopefully we'll get you sorted.
First of all, please note it always helps if you can please include links to any other relevant threads or posts, this is to give everyone all the information and prevent any wasted effort revisiting old ground. Or you could have just tacked this new post on the end of your previous one, albeit under a different title. But hey no harm done at all.
So in this case the other thread was
http://forum.forest-of-dean.net/index.php?id=49450
Ref your query, I'm confused by your saying Mary Ann married Charles Bullock in 1856, so why do you appear to say she is living with Charles Cooper in 1861, but you don't mention a death etc for Chas Bullock ?
I ask as using FamilySearch I can find a couple that seem a good match, live together in Westbury until 1901 or later, and interestingly wrt your prior post, gives Mary Ann as born abt 1832 in Slimbridge, so just across the river from Newnham via the Arlingham ferry.
Apologies if I'm missing something, but could these records be your couple ?
1861 Strand Lane, Westbury On Severn, Gloucestershire, England
Household Role Sex Age Birthplace
Charles Bullock Head M 41 Ag labourer. Westbury On Severn, Gloucestershire
Mary A Bullock Wife F 29 Ag labourer. Slimbridge, Gloucestershire
Josh Bullock Son M 3 Westbury On Severn, Gloucestershire
William Bullock Son M 1 Westbury On Severn, Gloucestershire
1871 Westbury On Severn, Gloucestershire, England
Household Role Sex Age Birthplace
Chas Bullock Head M 56 Farm Labourer. Westbury On Severn, Gloucestershire
Mary Ann Bullock Wife F 40 Slimbridge, Gloucestershire
Joseph Bullock Son M 13 Westbury On Severn, Gloucestershire
Willm Bullock Son M 10 Westbury On Severn, Gloucestershire
Allice Bullock Daughter F 8 Westbury On Severn, Gloucestershire
Jasper Bullock Son M 5 Westbury On Severn, Gloucestershire
Chas Bullock Son M 2 Westbury On Severn, Gloucestershire
Elizth Bullock Daughter F 0 Westbury On Severn, Gloucestershire
1881 Strand Rd, Westbury On Severn, Gloucestershire, England
Household Role Sex Age Birthplace
Charles Bullock Head M 67 Farm Lab. Westbury On Severn, Gloucestershire, England
Mary Ann Bullock Wife F 49 Slimbridge, Gloucestershire, England
William Bullock Son M 21 Farm Lab. Westbury On Severn, Gloucestershire, England
Jasper Bullock Son M 15 Farm Lab. Westbury On Severn, Gloucestershire, England
Charles Bullock Son M 12 Farm lab. Westbury On Severn, Gloucestershire, England
Elizabeth Bullock Daughter F 10 Westbury On Severn, Gloucestershire, England
Authur Bullock Son M 7 Westbury On Severn, Gloucestershire, England
1891 Rocks Fountain Lane, Westbury On Severn, Gloucestershire, England
Household Role Sex Age Birthplace
Mary Ann Bullock Head F 59 Widow. Laundress. Gloucestershire, England
Jasper Bullock Son M 24 Waterman. Gloucestershire, England
Charles Bullock Son M 22 Gen lab. Gloucestershire, England
Arthur Bullock Son M 17 Gen lab. Gloucestershire, England
Mark Portlock Lodger M 60 Gloucestershire, Barnwood
1901 Westbury On Severn, Gloucestershire, England
Household Role Sex AgeBirthplace
Mary Bullock Head F 71 Charwoman.Slimbridge, Gloucestershire
Arthur Bullock Son M 28 Labourer (Farmers). Westbury On Severn
Elizh Bullock Daughter-In-Law F 31 Castlemorton, Worcestershire
1911 Westbury On Severn, Gloucestershire, England
Household Role Sex Age Birthplace
Elizabeth Saysell Head F 40 Charwoman. Westbury On Severn, Gloucestershire
Harold J Saysell Son M 7 Westbury On Severn, Gloucestershire
Percy F Saysell Son M 5 Westbury On Severn, Gloucestershire
Lionel W C Saysell Son M 1 Westbury On Severn, Gloucestershire
Mary Ann Bullock Mother F 82 Widow. Old age pensioner. Slimbridge, Gloucestershire
---
Also from FamilySearch;
Mary Ann Bullock
British Newspaper Archive, Family Notices
Name Mary Ann Bullock
Event Type Obituary
Event Date 03 Oct 1914
Event Place United Kingdom
Gender Female
Age 80
Spouse's Name Charles Bullock
---
From this site's PRs;
Record_ID: 388121
Entry_Number: 184
Year: 1913
Month: Feb
Day: 15
Surname: BULLOCK
Forenames: Mary Ann
Residence: Stantway Westbury on Severn
Age_at_death: 81 years
Officiating_Minister: G H Duder Priest
Event: Burial
Cause_of_death:
Memoranda:
Notes:
Register_Reference: P354 IN 1/2
Page_No: 23
Parish_Chapel: Westbury on Severn
Soundex: B420
Record_ID: 387146
Entry_Number: 10
Year: 1884
Month: Mar
Day: 12
Surname: BULLOCK
Forenames: Charles
Residence: Westbury
Age_at_death: 70
Officiating_Minister: G Homeyer Curate
Event: Burial
Cause_of_death:
Memoranda:
Notes:
Register_Reference: P 354 IN 1/17
Page_No: 2
Parish_Chapel: Westbury on Severn
Soundex: B420
Record_ID 208041
Entry_Number 97
Year 1889
Month Nov
Day 3
Grooms_Surname SAYSELL
Grooms_Forenames William
Grooms_Age 28
Groom_Condition Bachelor
Grooms_Occupation Labourer
Grooms_Residence Westbury on Severn
Grooms_Fathers_Surname Saysell
Grooms_Fathers_Forenames William
Grooms_Fathers_Occupation Labourer
Brides_Surname BULLOCK
Brides_Forenames Elizabeth
Brides_Age 20
Brides_Condition Spinster
Brides_Occupation
Brides_Residence Westbury on Severn
Brides_Fathers_Surname Bullock
Brides_Fathers_Forenames Charles
Brides_Fathers_Occupation Labourer
Licence_or_Banns Banns
Date_of_Banns
Signature_or_Mark She signs He marks
Witness_1 Jasper Bullock
Witness_2 Eliza Pittaway
Other_Witnesses
Officiating_Minister Leonard Wilkinson B.A.Vicar
Event Marriage
Memoranda
Notes
Register_Reference P354 IN 1/19
Page_Number 49
Parish_Chapel Westbury on Severn
Soundex_Groom S240
Soundex_Bride B420
French and Bullock, Westbury o Severn / Newnham, c1860s
by Jefff , West London, Middlesex, Thursday, March 15, 2018, 02:00 (2233 days ago) @ Jefff
For thread completeness;
Record_ID: 154304
Entry_Number: 195
Year: 1856
Month: May
Day: 26
Grooms_Surname: BULLOCK
Grooms_Forenames: Charles
Grooms_Age: full
Groom_Condition: Bachelor
Grooms_Occupation: labourer
Grooms_Residence: Newnham
Grooms_Fathers_Surname: Bullock
Grooms_Fathers_Forenames: William
Grooms_Fathers_Occupation: labourer
Brides_Surname: FRENCH
Brides_Forenames: Mary Ann
Brides_Age: full
Brides_Condition: Spinster
Brides_Occupation:
Brides_Residence: Newnham
Brides_Fathers_Surname: French
Brides_Fathers_Forenames: John
Brides_Fathers_Occupation: labourer
Licence_or_Banns: Banns
Date_of_Banns:
Signature_or_Mark: Both mark
Witness_1: Thomas French his mark
Witness_2: Elizabeth French her mark
Other_Witnesses:
Officiating_Minister: E.C. Brice perp.curate
Event: Marriage
Memoranda:
Notes: full and Newnham centred in box
Register_Reference: P228 IN 1/13
Page_Number: 98
Parish_Chapel: Newnham
Soundex_Groom: B420
Soundex_Bride: F652
Returning to Mary before her marriage, can find (Familysearch again);
1851 Haresfield, Wheatenhurst District, Gloucestershire, England
Household Role Sex Age Birthplace
John Chandler Head M 58 Farmer. Haresfield, Gloucestershire
Hester Chandler Wife F 55 Standish, Gloucestershire
Eliza Chandler Daughter F 20 Standish, Gloucestershire
Mary Chandler Daughter F 18 Standish, Gloucestershire
Hester Chandler Daughter F 13 Standish, Gloucestershire
Mary French Servant F 19 Unmarried. House Servant. Slimbridge, Gloucestershire
1841 Worth, Slimbridge, Gloucestershire, England
Household Role Sex Age Birthplace
Charles Cooper M 40-44 Gloucestershire
Charles Cooper M 11 Gloucestershire
Sarah Cooper F 5 Gloucestershire
James Cooper M 3 Gloucestershire
Mary French F 35-39 Gloucestershire
William French M 15-19 Gloucestershire
Mary French F 8 Gloucestershire
Thomas French M 2 Gloucestershire
So marriage witness Thomas French is bride's younger brother ?
Who are William and Mary French ?
Ah-ha, I understand now, here's the Chas COOPER link you were referring to.
Sorry for being confused (it's late ;-) ).
Not sure if they're helpful, yet, but Familysearch also has;
Name William French
Gender Male
Christening Date 13 Jan 1794
Christening Date (Original) 13 JAN 1794
Christening Place SLIMBRIDGE,GLOUCESTER,ENGLAND
Father's Name John French
Mother's Name Mary
Name William French
Gender Male
Christening Date 30 Mar 1795
Christening Date (Original) 30 MAR 1795
Christening Place SLIMBRIDGE,GLOUCESTER,ENGLAND
Father's Name Joseph French
Mother's Name Ann
Name William French
Gender Male
Christening Date 24 Jan 1812
Christening Date (Original) 24 JAN 1812
Christening Place SLIMBRIDGE,GLOUCESTER,ENGLAND
Father's Name George French
Mother's Name Susanna
??
Searching for Thomas, this immediately looks more helpful;
1861 Cambridge, Slimbridge, Gloucestershire, England
Household Role Sex Age Birthplace
Mary Cooper Head F 59 Widow. Pauper Supported By The Parish. Slimbridge, Gloucestershire
Thomas French Son M 21 Unmarried. Mariner. Slimbridge, Gloucestershire
Joseph Cooper Son M 18 Groom. Slimbridge, Gloucestershire
Henry Cooper Son M 16 Lab. Slimbridge, Gloucestershire
1871 Coaley, Gloucestershire, England
Household Role Sex Age Birthplace
Thomas French Head M 31 Labourer. Slimbridge, Gloucestershire
Maria French Wife F 30 Coaley, Gloucestershire
Robert French Son M 8 Coaley, Gloucestershire
Florence French Daughter F 5 Coaley, Gloucestershire
Thomas French Son M 3 Coaley, Gloucestershire
Edith E French Daughter F 0 Coaley, Gloucestershire
Rachel Lewis Mother-in-law F 73 Widowed. Cam, Gloucestershire
etc etc
Sadly FamilySearch doesn't have his birthplace, but could this be him, with his parents, and an older sister Maria (Marianne ?) born abt 1835...
1851 Bristol Road, South Hamlet, Gloucester District, Gloucestershire, England
Household Role Sex Age Birthplace
Thomas French Head M 52 ???, Gloucestershire
Elizabeth French Wife F 55 ???, Gloucestershire
Maria French Daughter F 16 ???, Gloucestershire
Thomas French Son M 12 ???, Gloucestershire
Sorry, gotta go now,
atb J.
French and Bullock, Westbury o Severn / Newnham, c1860s
Thank you so much for the reply and all the work Jeff. You have I think helped me to get back on track (I think).
Reading through all the information you have put down would lead me to the following conclusions (hopefully correct ones)
The Charles Bullock and Mary Ann Bullock in your first posting are mine. From all the other information I have come to the following conclusions:
Mary Ann (junior) on her marriage information to Charles Bullock is of full age so born approximately 1835. Her father is listed as John.
1841 census Mary Ann (junior) is 8 years old and is with her mother Mary Ann (senior) who was born around 1802.
There is no mention of husband John - so either he died or ran away or he and Mary Ann (senior) were never married and the children were illegitimate?
Mary Ann (senior) marries Charles Cooper - I need to check on date.
If I can find the marriage to Charles Cooper it might show if Mary Anne was single or widow.
So I think that I am on the right track with this and need to look for the marriage I mentioned as well as looking for John.
So thank you Jeff for the information
French and Bullock, Westbury o Severn / Newnham, c1860s
I've looked at the marriages on Ancestry and it says that:
Charles Cooper, widower, full age, Slimbridge; married
Mary French, spinster, full age, Slimbridge
No father is listed for either.
French and Bullock, Westbury o Severn / Newnham, c1860s
by MPGriffiths , Thursday, March 15, 2018, 08:39 (2233 days ago) @ Mai
The witnesses i.e. William & Sarah MABBETT at the wedding of Charles COOPER to Mary FRENCH, 16 September 1844.
The next wedding in the register, is Henry WHERRETT marrying Elizabeth FRENCH (witnesses: Joseph & **Susannah FRENCH)
?
Ancestry:
William MABBETT married Sarah FRENCH, 28 May 1818, St Mary de Lobe, Gloucestershire
Although : William MABBETT is the Parish Clerk - looking at the 1841 census and GRO -
Lavinia MABBETT aged 21 months: mother's maiden name: FRENCH
MABBETT
William - 45
Sarah - 40 (aged 54 1851 census)
Ann - 20
Harriett - 13
Henry -11
Joseph - 8
Clara - 7
Beata - 4
Lavinia - 21 months (mother's maiden name FRENCH)
Sophia - 1
---
Sarah FRENCH christened at Slimbridge, 16 July 1796, parents: Joseph & Ann (assume family names)
---
The Will of John FRENCH 26 March 1831 (of Slimbridge) - mentions his late son George (7 grandchildren) - who had children by Susannah HATHWAY - (inc: George FRENCH alias HATHWAY - Joseph, William John, Richard, Elizabeth, Susannah & Ann) and says George later married Susannah) -
George FRENCH married Susannah HATHAWAY at Slimbridge 14 June 1810 (by Licence)
George is aged 18 and Susannah 21 (on the Licence) Forest of Dean records.
---
George FRENCH, illigitimate son of Susannah HATHAWAY - christened at Slimbridge, 4 October 1808
French and Bullock, Westbury o Severn / Newnham, c1860s
Thank you for that reply. Particularly interesting because on the birth parish record for William French on July 11 1824 he is listed as William Mallett son of Mary French. So Illegitimate? On one of the census records I also note that he is listed as William Mallett French.
Could the Mabbett on the marriage certificate be Mallett - showing a close connection of the two families? Further checking needed.
Thank you.
French and Bullock, Westbury o Severn / Newnham, c1860s
by MPGriffiths , Thursday, March 15, 2018, 21:08 (2233 days ago) @ Mai
There is on Ancestry a copy of the marriage of William FRENCH (occupation: TAILOR) - at Cam 23 November 1851
- his father's name is given as William MABBETT (occupation, Publican)
Looking at the original copy of Ancestry, the witnesses were Henry & Sarah MABBETT
---
A good example where Alias begins...
French and Bullock, Westbury o Severn / Newnham, c1860s
Thank you - will do an ancestry search. The information is so interesting despite the fact that I am no further in my search for Mary Ann (juniors) parentage. But maybe through these other connections I may come across something.
French and Bullock, Westbury o Severn / Newnham, c1860s
by MPGriffiths , Friday, March 16, 2018, 09:59 (2232 days ago) @ Mai
When Thomas FRENCH the son of Mary COOPER married in Coaley - 8 December 1861 (aged 22 and a Navigator) - to Maria LEWIS - he gave his father as William FRENCH, occupation, Farmer.
witnesses: Joseph COOPER assume his brother.
--
FRENCH, Slimbridge
There is a John FRENCH in 1829 - labourer aged 30 Goal record
+ William FRENCH etc (check with Ancestry)