John & Mary Manns, Kempley area, Gloucestershire (General)

by Ladies, Tuesday, October 30, 2018, 14:26 (383 days ago)

I have hit a brick wall trying to find info regarding the above. John Manns is a very difficult name to research as it is so common in Gloucestershire!

This JOhn & Mary are the parents of 1826 William Manns, born in Kempley, married to Ellen Jenkins,

I have found a John Manns ranging in birth dates from 1786 to 1805!

and his wife Mary Manns - could be Mary Preece, Mary Phillips or any other Mary born in or around Kempley from 1795-1805!!

Grateful for any inspiration!

John & Mary Manns, Kempley area, Gloucestershire

by MPGriffiths @, Tuesday, October 30, 2018, 20:08 (383 days ago) @ Ladies

If you search for MANNS baptisms: parents : John & Mary

1820 - Joseph - at Dymock
1822 - Jeremiah - at Kempley
1824 - John - at Kempley
1826 - William - at Dymock
1829 - Sarah - at Kempley
1831 - Henry - at Kempley
1834 - Samuel - at Kempley
1837 - Mary Ann - at Kempley
1840 - Thomas - at Kempley


1841 Census, Kempley Green

MANNS
John - 50 - Ag Lab - born in County
Mary - 40 - born I (in end column usually means Ireland)
Sarah - 11
Samuel - 6
Mary Ann - 3


Joseph's marriage in the records - gives his father as John


Checked with the GRO Index - but can't see a record for a Mary Ann MANNS - 1837 or Thomas 1840 - which could give the mother's maiden name.


There are Goal records for a John & Jeremiah MANNS


---

On the 1851 census, John gives his age as 64 c1787

Looking at family names it is possible John is the son of Jeremiah & Ann MANN - born Hartpury, 13 January 1788

John & Mary Manns, Kempley area, Gloucestershire

by MPGriffiths @, Tuesday, October 30, 2018, 20:26 (383 days ago) @ MPGriffiths

On the 1861 census

John MANN - aged 75 - and the Parish Clerk
states he was born in Hartpury and


Mary MANN 65 -
states she was born in Ireland, Derry


Thomas GOOD is next door with Sarah (as they were on the 1851 census)

John & Mary Manns, Kempley area, Gloucestershire

by Jefff @, West London, Middlesex, Tuesday, October 30, 2018, 22:27 (383 days ago) @ MPGriffiths

FoD PRs have;

Record_ID: 144760
Entry_Number: 214
Year: 1867
Month: Jul
Day: 7
Surname: MANNS
Forenames: John
Residence: Kempley
Age_at_death: 84
Officiating_Minister: Arthur J. Steel
Event: Burial
Cause_of_death:
Memoranda:
Notes:
Register_Reference: P188 IN 1/18
Page_No: 27
Parish_Chapel: Kempley
Soundex: M520

So born abt 1783

The PRs for Kempley include over 40 more MANNS, so it's disappointing cannot find a burial record for John's wife Mary Ann (as she was named in the 1851 Census) ??. Cannot find her on GlosBMD or FreeBMD either.

Did find their daughter's, though;

Record_ID: 144702
Entry_Number: 156
Year: 1852
Month: May
Day: 17
Surname: MANNS
Forenames: Mary Ann
Residence: Kempley Green
Age_at_death: 14
Officiating_Minister: Arthur J. Steel Curate
Event: Burial
Cause_of_death:
Memoranda:
Notes:
Register_Reference: P188 IN 1/18
Page_No: 20
Parish_Chapel: Kempley
Soundex: M520

--------

Another PR references MPG's earlier mention of Thomas Goode & Sarah;

Record_ID: 100284
Entry_Number: 18
Year: 1847
Month: Dec
Day: 11
Grooms_Surname: GOODE
Grooms_Forenames: Thomas
Grooms_Age: of age
Groom_Condition: Bachelor
Grooms_Occupation: Husbandman
Grooms_Residence: Kempley Green
Grooms_Fathers_Surname: GOODE
Grooms_Fathers_Forenames: Thomas
Grooms_Fathers_Occupation: Husbandman
Brides_Surname: MANNS
Brides_Forenames: Sarah
Brides_Age: of age
Brides_Condition: Spinster
Brides_Occupation: [not stated]
Brides_Residence: Kempley Green
Brides_Fathers_Surname: MANNS
Brides_Fathers_Forenames: John
Brides_Fathers_Occupation: Husbandman
Licence_or_Banns: Banns
Date_of_Banns:
Signature_or_Mark: He marks she signs
Witness_1: Mark of Joseph Manns
Witness_2: Mark of Ann Manns
Other_Witnesses:
Officiating_Minister: William Servante Vicar
Event: Marriage
Memoranda:
Notes:
Register_Reference: P188 IN 1/15
Page_Number: 9
Parish_Chapel: Kempley
Soundex_Groom: G300
Soundex_Bride: M520

---

John & Mary Manns, Kempley area, Gloucestershire

by Ladies, Thursday, November 08, 2018, 12:53 (374 days ago) @ Jefff

Thank you for your reply

I have found those records but they dont tell me if i have the correct John Manns!

I am assuming he is the correct John Manns because he had a son called William born 1826 who was Gt Gt Grandfather to my husband.

The Census records are confusing with different possible birth dates and places of birth for John & Mary.

I have the death date for himas 1867 and for a Mary Manns in 1869 but not sure if that is correct!

Manns in Gloucestershire is an extremely difficult name to research grrrrrrrrr

John & Mary Manns, Kempley area, Gloucestershire

by Ladies, Thursday, November 08, 2018, 12:46 (374 days ago) @ MPGriffiths

Thank you for replying.

I have found those records but they are very confusing.

1841 Census says he was born ???
1851 " " " Kempley
1861 " " " Hartpury


I believe Sarah was their daughter, married to Thomas Goode

So confusing!

John & Mary Manns, Kempley area, Gloucestershire

by Ladies, Thursday, November 08, 2018, 12:55 (374 days ago) @ MPGriffiths

Thank you for your reply.

I have found these records but confusing birth dates and birth places on different census dont help grrrrrrrrr

John & Mary Manns, Kempley area, Gloucestershire

by Mike Pinchin @, Bedford, England, Tuesday, October 30, 2018, 22:14 (383 days ago) @ MPGriffiths

On Glos BMD there is, not too far away,

MANNS Thomas, Mother’s former name MCINTIRE 1840 District Gloucester, Office Gloucester, Redmarley 1 473

Widowed Mary Manns re-married in 1870, Kempley area.

by Jefff @, West London, Middlesex, Tuesday, October 30, 2018, 22:45 (383 days ago) @ Mike Pinchin

After John Manns died in 1867, looks like his widow Mary re-married.
Note maiden name McIntyre as per Mike's post.

GlosBMD;

Marriage Details
Groom Surname Groom Forename Bride Surname Bride Forename District Parish Building Year Register Entry
MEREDITH John MANNS Mary Ann Gloucester Dymock St Mary the Virgin 1870 16 No 1 325
MEREDITH John MCINTYRE Mary Ann Gloucester Dymock St Mary the Virgin 1870 16 No 1 325


Luckily the FoD PRs include this excellent full marriage record;

Record_ID: 53954
Entry_Number: 325
Year: 1870
Month: Jan
Day: 19
Grooms_Surname: MEREDITH
Grooms_Forenames: John
Grooms_Age: Full
Groom_Condition: Widower
Grooms_Occupation: Gate Keeper
Grooms_Residence: Windcross
Grooms_Fathers_Surname: Meredith
Grooms_Fathers_Forenames: William
Grooms_Fathers_Occupation: Shoemaker
Brides_Surname: MANNS
Brides_Forenames: Mary Ann
Brides_Age: Full
Brides_Condition: Widow
Brides_Occupation:
Brides_Residence: Windcross
Brides_Fathers_Surname: McIntyre
Brides_Fathers_Forenames: Thomas
Brides_Fathers_Occupation: Sea Captain

Licence_or_Banns: Banns
Date_of_Banns:
Signature_or_Mark: Both mark
Witness_1: Mark of Thomas Smith
Witness_2: Mark of May Smith
Other_Witnesses:
Officiating_Minister: J G Packer
Event: Marriage
Memoranda:
Notes:
Register_Reference: P125 IN 1/27
Page_Number: 163
Parish_Chapel: Dymock
Soundex_Groom: M633
Soundex_Bride: M520

----

Not easy to find using FamilySearch, but here she is in 1871;

Name Mary Meredith
Event Type Census
Event Date 1871
Event Place Dymock, Gloucestershire, England
Enumeration District 2d
Gender Female
Age 76
Marital Status Married
Occupation Wife
Relationship to Head of Household Wife
Birth Year (Estimated) 1795
Birthplace Ireland
Entry Number 21
Affiliate Image Identifier GBC/1871/2608/0158


Think this is husband John, pretty sure it's the same household despite being presented separately, and both same image number;

Name John Meredith
Event Type Census
Event Date 1871
Event Place Dymock, Gloucestershire, England
Enumeration District 2d
Gender Male
Age 77
Marital Status Married
Occupation Toll Gate Keeper
Relationship to Head of Household Head
Birth Year (Estimated) 1794
Birthplace Ledbury, Herefordshire
Entry Number 20
Affiliate Image Identifier GBC/1871/2608/0158

(Oddly I cannot find him locally on the 1861 Census.)

Cannot find any burial records for them in the PRs, but FreeBMD has;

Deaths Jun 1877
MEREDITH Mary 84 Newent 6a 179
Deaths Jun 1879
Meredith Mary 82 Newent 6a 171

Confirmed by GlosBMD;
Surname Given Names Age Year Died District Register Entry
MEREDITH Mary 84 1877 Gloucester, Newent 11 250
MEREDITH Mary 82 1879 Gloucester, Redmarley 8 486

IF the 1871 Census age is correct, looks like our Mary died in 1879 - hopefully the subscription websites will show the above Census was in Redmarley area.
N.B. Meredith is a common name in this general area !

I cannot find any likely death record for our John on FreeBMD in Glos or neighbouring Herefordshire & Worcestershire,or GlosBMD or PRs.
???

Widowed Mary Manns re-married in 1870, Kempley area.

by MPGriffiths @, Wednesday, October 31, 2018, 07:45 (383 days ago) @ Jefff

Just to confirm


1871 Census, Dymock

(just outside Dymock Village)


Windcross

MEREDITH

John - 77 - Toll Gate Keeper, born Herefords Ledbury
Mary - 76 - born Ireland


--

? there is also a burial of Mary MEREDITH aged 82 in 1879 at Kempley

Widowed Mary Manns re-married in 1870, Kempley area.

by Jefff @, West London, Middlesex, Wednesday, October 31, 2018, 15:09 (382 days ago) @ MPGriffiths

Thanks so much MPG for confirming the 1871 info, and that Mary did indeed die vaguely near Redmarley, or at least that's where her death was registered. Anyone know who might register a death, does it have to be family, or her doctor, or ?. Took me a while to find one of my ancestor's death records - it was recorded in deepest Herefordshire, far from his Longhope home ?? - but then I realised that was where he'd died in a railway accident, so that was where the inquest was held.

Thanks too M for pointing out this record, could've sworn I looked in the PRs but clearly not very well....

Record_ID: 144796
Entry_Number: 250
Year: 1879
Month: Apr
Day: 4
Surname: MEREDITH
Forenames: Mary
Residence: Kempley
Age_at_death: 82
Officiating_Minister: John C. Weaver
Event: Burial
Cause_of_death:
Memoranda:
Notes:
Register_Reference: P188 IN 1/18
Page_No: 32
Parish_Chapel: Kempley
Soundex: M633

Widowed Mary Manns re-married in 1870, Kempley area.

by Ladies, Thursday, November 08, 2018, 13:11 (374 days ago) @ Jefff

Thank you for your reply.

Your info looks very promising. My death date for Mary was 1869 and therefore i did not know she had re-married,

Her fathers name of McIntyre seems to confirm that she came from Ireland.

You wonderful people on FOD Forum are clearly far more experience than i am on finding records for which i am very grateful.

If only we could find out for definite who JOhn Manns is and who his parents definitely are as this is preventing me from going back any farther in my research.

Once again, many thanks

Widowed Mary Manns re-married in 1870, Kempley area.

by MPGriffiths @, Thursday, November 08, 2018, 17:11 (374 days ago) @ Ladies

Back to the 1861 census, where John MANNS says he was born c 1783/1786 in Hartpury and then look at his children's names (family names go through generations, also mostly nin order of priority, say father's names, grandfather's names etc

John & Mary MANNS names one of their children - Jeremiah - in 1822

other children of John & Mary (just to re-cap)

1820 - Joseph at Dymock
1822 - Jeremiah (as above) at Kempley
1824 - John - at Kempley
1826 - William at Dymock
1829 - Sarah at Kempley
1831 - Henry at Kempley
1834 - Samuel 1837 - at Kempley
b]Mary Ann[/b] at Kempley
1840 - Thomas at Kempley

There is a Jeremiah MANN marrying in Hartpury - 12 April 1779 to Ann VENN

and their children at Hartpury : Jeremiah & Ann or Anne


1781 MANS Mary - buried 12 June 1785, daughter of Jeremiah & Ann MANNS
1783 MANS William
1785 MANNS Jeremiah
1788 MANNS John
1790 MANNS Mary Anne - buried 1 April 1794
1795 MANNS Thomas
1797 MANNS Anne


---Burial at Hartpury: 12 December 1834

Jeremiah MANNS aged 87, residence: Dimock (C1747)

.... Burial at Hartpury: 7 February 1830

Ann MANNS aged 81 (c1749)


----

So, we have siblings and had a quick look for marriages (more work needs to be done)

William MANNS 1783
Jeremiah MANNS 1785 - he's on the 1851 census, Hartpury
John MANNS 1788
Thomas 1795
Anne MANNS 1797

William MANN(S) c 1783

by MPGriffiths @, Thursday, November 08, 2018, 19:27 (374 days ago) @ MPGriffiths

On the 1851 census - Westbury on Severn

William MAUN (as spelt on Ancestry) aged 71 - Lab Pensioner born Hartbury
Mary - wife aged 54, born Westbury on Severn
Hannah - Grandaughter aged 2

Westbury on Severn - baptisms : parents, William & Mary

Jeremiah - 1830
Ann - 1833
Henry - 1837 (John named a Son Henry)


1841 Census, Westbury on Severn

MANN

William - 55
Mary - 45
Jeremiah - 11
William - 10 (GRO has a William MANN 1840


? as William is a Pensioner - were he and John soldiers - hence John marrying an Irish girl

John & Mary Manns, Kempley area, Gloucestershire

by Ladies, Thursday, November 08, 2018, 12:57 (374 days ago) @ Mike Pinchin

Thank you. Will check this infor

John & Mary Manns, Kempley area, Gloucestershire

by Ladies, Thursday, November 08, 2018, 12:42 (374 days ago) @ MPGriffiths

Thank you very much for replying to query.

I have found all the records you mention but i cannot pin down an exact John Manns or his wife Mary.

In 1841 Census says she was born in Kemply
In 1851 Census says she was born in Londonderry

So confusing.

I cant pin down a definite date for John Manns birth and there are numerous couples who could be his parents.

I have found all the children you mentioned.

Brick wall aghhhhhhh!!

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