1880 James Harrington Manns - Born Lancester (General)

by Ladies, Saturday, December 01, 2018, 12:24 (346 days ago)

His parents were Charles & Margaret E Manns

James married on 26.10.1908 to Ruth Plumpton

He emigrated to America in 1911 on HM Teutonic - without his wife, who as far as i can see never reunites with her?

However, he enlisted in WW1 in 1914 in The Kings Own Lancaster REgiment and served until 1920. So when did he come back from America?

After that i cannot definitely pin him down!!

Any help would be greatly appreciated. Did he go back to America or stay in the UK after 1920?
Cant find him in the 1939 REgister although i can find Ruth, living alone!

On the death record for Ruth, he is still listed as her husband so i can only assume that neither of them re-married although of course, if he is abroad somewhere, he could pretend he was a widower or divorced. I have found many instances of people telling 'fibs'!!!

1880 James Harrington Manns - Born Lancester

by MPGriffiths @, Saturday, December 01, 2018, 13:07 (346 days ago) @ Ladies

?????

Looking at the emigration on Family Search - James Harrington MANNS - event: 27 April 1911 and his occupation was a Cashier.


This is on the 1911 census at Bexhill, Sussex, Ancestry transcribed as James Harrington MARVES
Date of 1911 census is 31 March 1911

37 Reginald Road, Bexhill-on-Sea


His is a lodger and unmarried but is aged 31


James Harrington MARVES/MANNS - Aged 31, Single Cotton Factory Paymaster born 'At Sea'
another lodger is

Edith Mary HOLMES aged 32, Single, Sick Nurse, born Newark, Notts


Ruth is on her own 1911 census

1880 James Harrington Manns - Born Lancester

by MPGriffiths @, Saturday, December 01, 2018, 13:30 (346 days ago) @ MPGriffiths

???


There is an Edith May HOLMES register 1877 in Nottinghamshire

and there is this?

1891, Manchester, Lancashire

HOLMES

Jemima - 73
Hiram - 35
Edith - 15 - Grand-daughter, born Nottingham.

? possibly married in 1897

? as James MANNS says he was born 'At Sea'

1880 James Harrington Manns - Born Lancester

by Ladies, Saturday, December 01, 2018, 14:16 (346 days ago) @ MPGriffiths

Cant see anything about him marrying anyone else, only Ruth Plumpton

1880 James Harrington Manns - Born Lancester

by Ladies, Saturday, December 01, 2018, 13:50 (346 days ago) @ MPGriffiths

Thank you. That seems plausible. He is clearly not telling the truth about being unmarried? I have found this happens a lot with people who have left their wives/husbands.


As an interesting note, Ruth still names him as her husband on her death record!! So they never got a divorce and she never re-married!

1880 James Harrington Manns - Born Lancester

by Ladies, Saturday, December 01, 2018, 13:53 (346 days ago) @ MPGriffiths

Dont understand 'born at sea'!!! James Harrington Manns was born in Lancaster

1880 James Harrington Manns - Born Lancester

by MPGriffiths @, Saturday, December 01, 2018, 14:04 (346 days ago) @ Ladies

Just another 'Fib'

On his marriage certificate, James gives his father Charles occupation : Gentleman - Charles on the 1911 census, (born Dymock/Newent etc - was Instructor to the Blind Mat & Matting. Margaret his wife was a Medical Nurse and Cert. Midwife.
? Edith HOLMES on the 1911 census was a Sick Nurse.


My x Grandfather was another one - who left his Wife and two Sons and went off to Valparaiso with the GWR and I'm now in contact with his descendants over there!!!

1880 James Harrington Manns - Born Lancester

by Ladies, Saturday, December 01, 2018, 16:18 (346 days ago) @ MPGriffiths

How amazing that you found those ancestors.

I would just love to find out where James was after 1920. I cannot find him anywhere. Very frustrating. Makes me wonder if he did indeed go back to USA or even Canada or his name has been transcribed incorrectly (i.e.Marves!) in this country. Cant even find him on the 1939 Register.

Thank you, by the way for finding Marves. I would never have found that in a million years!!

Any other super sleuths out there who can solve the puzzle???

1880 James Harrington Manns - Born Lancester

by Ladies, Saturday, December 01, 2018, 16:36 (346 days ago) @ MPGriffiths

Yes, Charles Manns was his father. The family originated in the Dymock/Kempley areas.

I am exploring the whole family including all the ones who have moved away out of the area, sometimes a long way out of the area such as James Harrington Manns, born in Lancaster

1880 James Harrington Manns - Born Lancester

by shepway @, Saturday, December 01, 2018, 16:45 (346 days ago) @ Ladies

Whilst the marriage to Ruth Plumpton names the father as Charles it would appear James was born before his mother married. This is the marriage:
Marriages Dec 1880
Fisher Margaret Ellen Lancaster 8e 1057
MANNS Charles Lancaster 8e 1057

James is aged 11 in the 1891 Census so was probably born in the first half of 1880. There is a James Fisher born to a single mother in 1880:
FISHER, JAMES -
GRO Reference: 1880 J Quarter in LANCASTER Volume 08E Page 743

The following confirms the birth out of wedlock:
Transcript from familysearch.org:
Name: James Fisher
Residence Place: Lancaster, Lancashire, England
Gender: Male
Christening Date: 1880
Christening Date (Original): 02 MAY 1880
Christening Place: ST. MARY, LANCASTER, LANCASHIRE, ENGLAND
Birth Date: 25 Feb 1880
Mother's Name: Margaret Ellen Fisher

There is also an image on Find My Past and Margaret is described as a Machinist of 34 Penny Street.

The Military Records for James Harrington Manns suggest his place of birth is Morecambe - Is it possible that James Harrington Manns and James Fisher are not one and the same?

Mike

1880 James Harrington Manns - Born Lancester

by MPGriffiths @, Saturday, December 01, 2018, 17:38 (346 days ago) @ shepway

When James MANNS married Ruth PLUMPTON in 1908 (by Licence) the witnesses were Edward & Annie SPARKS


Edward SPARKS married Annie PLUMPTON in 1908

1880 James Harrington Manns - Born Lancester

by Ladies, Saturday, December 01, 2018, 19:22 (345 days ago) @ shepway

Wow, you are a super sleuth Mike.

That info is so interesting. I will have to check my info out when i get back to it, probably on Monday.

Thank you

1880 James Harrington Manns - Born Lancester

by MPGriffiths @, Saturday, December 01, 2018, 20:19 (345 days ago) @ Ladies

The marriage of Charles MANNS to Margaret Ellen FISHER - 2 October 1880 - gives Margaret's address: as 34 Penny Street, the same address given for the baptism of James FISHER and where her father Thomas FISHER and family are living on the 1881 census.

1880 James Harrington Manns - Born Lancester

by Ladies, Monday, December 03, 2018, 14:27 (344 days ago) @ shepway

I think you are correct. James Fisher & James Harrington Manns are one and the same person.

As was so often the case, when his mother married Charles Manns, they must have changed his name to the same.

Thank you for sorting that out. I would never have thought to check if he was born illegitimately! I am very much an amateur researcher so this forum has been a revelation to me. Found so much info that i would probably never have found on my own

Still trying to find him after 1920 when he came out of the army.

Perhaps i will look for James Fisher?? As he left his wife, perhaps he changed his name back to the original so that he could not be traced. Just a thought!

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