Detached Part of Newland (General)

by NElkins, Tuesday, January 29, 2019, 00:41 (54 days ago)

I'm getting the impression from researches in the Yorkley area, that there is a detached part of Newland close to Yorkley.
Is this my imagination?
NormanE

Detached Part of Newland

by Jefff @, West London, Middlesex, Tuesday, January 29, 2019, 01:33 (54 days ago) @ NElkins

Not sure when you mean Norman, and please note this is definitely NOT my subject of "expertise", but according to the table in this reference, in 1935 "Yorkley Court" was a detached part of Newland Parish, as was nearby Badhamsfield.
see https://www.british-history.ac.uk/vch/glos/vol5/pp195-231

The above text, under Newland, includes the following mentions of Yorkley, there may well be more...

"Of the detached parts of Newland lying east of Clearwell tithing, Whitemead, evidently inclosed by the Crown itself, was recorded in 1283. Land at Bream had been cleared and settled by the mid 14th century, and there was farmland at Ellwood by the same period. In 1282 the meadow of Yorkley was mentioned, and in 1310 land in the Yorkley area was held by John ap Adam, whose name is presumably preserved in that of Badhamsfield farm. An assart of 36a at Yorkley was mentioned in 1338."

"The two detached portions further east at Yorkley were also sandwiched between Lydney parish and the Forest and were divided from each other by a strip of roadside waste along the Lydney to Yorkley village road. The western portion, comprising the Yorkley Court estate, covered 281a and the eastern one, comprising Badhamsfield farm, 77a. Collectively the three portions at Bream and Yorkley formed the tithing of Bream."

"The detached parts of Newland at Yorkley, divided by the road running north from Lydney to Yorkley village, probably had dwellings by the early 14th century. Seven cottages mentioned on Lord Berkeley's manor of Yorkley in 1346 may, however, have been in Lydney parish, from which the manor received rents. In the early modern period the parts of Newland at Yorkley appear to have contained only two farmhouses, Yorkley Court in the west part and Badhamsfield in the east part. Badhamsfield, as mentioned above, probably derives its name from medieval ownership by the ap Adam family and the farmhouse was recorded by that name in 1626, but the surviving house is no earlier than the late 18th century and was heavily restored in the mid 20th. By 1775 c10 cottages had been built on parish land at the north-west boundary of Yorkley Court farm as part of the developing village of Yorkley. In the mid 19th century land within the parish was colonized by a larger group of cottages called Yorkley Wood."

"In 1901 the population of Newland civil parish was 1,877, rising to 2,061 by 1931. In 1951, after the loss of the parts at Bream and Yorkley, the population of the civil parish was 1,148, declining to 877 by 1971 and rising again to 924 by 1991."

"A manor called YORKLEY, presumably based on the two detached parts of Newland there, belonged by 1346 to Thomas, Lord Berkeley, who died in 1361. It may have included land owned in 1310 by John ap Adam, whose nearby Purton manor passed to the Berkeleys. Lands in the Yorkley area later belonged to the Clearwell estate: in 1481 John and Joan Barre conveyed a house and 100a at Yorkley to Thomas Wall, and other lands, described as at Lydney, Gorsty field (in the east of the detached part of Newland at Bream), and Badhamsfield (presumably land once of the ap Adams) to Thomas Kedgwin. The western detached part at Yorkley later comprised Yorkley Court farm, which belonged by 1693 to the ironmaster Thomas Foley (d 1737), passing to his son Thomas and grandson Thomas (d 1777), Lord Foley. Lord Foley's estates in the Forest area were sold soon after his death, and in 1806 and 1821 Yorkley Court belonged to Thomas Packer. By 1840 it belonged to Samuel Cholditch, whose family still owned the farm in 1910. In 1992, then c190a, it was owned and farmed by Mrs A J McBride. There were farm buildings, including a dovecot, and probably a dwelling on Lord Berkeley's manor in 1346. The farmhouse at Yorkley Court was rebuilt in the early 19th century."

Detached Part of Newland

by probinson @, S. Oxon, Tuesday, January 29, 2019, 07:40 (54 days ago) @ NElkins

This map shows the two detached areas quite well.

https://maps.nls.uk/geo/explore/#zoom=15&lat=51.7533&lon=-2.5299&layers=178...

(Open in new tab)

--
Peter

Detached Part of Newland

by tuffers64, Thursday, January 31, 2019, 15:11 (52 days ago) @ NElkins

On older 1800's maps of around the top of Plump Hill, there are areas designated something like "Newland ex-parochial", which I take to mean that it came under Newland parochial Church, as the Forest was Crown Land at the time. I stand to be corrected here as I am doing this from memory only.

Detached Part of Newland

by probinson @, S. Oxon, Thursday, January 31, 2019, 17:46 (52 days ago) @ tuffers64

"Loquiers farm (SW. of Mitcheldean)" is one of the detached parts of Newland parish listed at the link Jeff gave. That would be near Plump Hill.

--
Peter

Detached Part of Newland

by NElkins, Friday, February 01, 2019, 05:32 (51 days ago) @ probinson

Its all fascinating and new to me, thanks for you replies and help.
My immediate thoughts are, does this arrangement still exist and has it muddled where the real location of an ancestor lived (say Yorkley/Newland)?
NormanE

Detached Part of Newland

by Jefff @, West London, Middlesex, Friday, February 01, 2019, 15:31 (51 days ago) @ NElkins

Hi Norman,
I don't know what current situation is, altho I suspect the previously detached parts have all been "tidied-up" nowadays, in the same way as county boundaries have been smoothed-out with time.

As to "muddling where an ancestor lived", personally I couldn't say without having some idea as to what era you're thinking about.

What I do know from my personal experiences, I was born in the eastern side of the Forest (Cinderford), but still knew about Coleford & Monmouth from a fairly early age. I didn't hear of Newland until I started at secondary school at Berry Hill just 5 miles west of my home area, most of the school's pupils came from the Coleford area, and I heard it spoken of as an important old church aka "the Cathedral of the Forest". However it still wasn't until 30 years later c2010 when I heard mention of Newland again, when I started my family history researches and saw the Newland name appear on old census forms etc; I had no real knowledge or awareness of Newland as an area or district, it was just an old small village in my mind, altho' I knew full well about Coleford, Monmouth etc, having close relatives living there.

Seems to me that altho' Newland was clearly a commonly-used term for the western parts of the Forest in early times, but since abt the mid 1800s and the significant growth in size hence importance of Lane End (Coalway, Broadwell) and then Coleford, and Lydbrook a little further northeast, and of course Monmouth a few miles west, Newland itself as both a place and a name became less and less significant in terms of local government and social affairs and awareness.

Hope this helps Norman.
Please can I ask whereabouts in the world you are ? Asking not thro' nosiness, but because this helps us to best understand your queries ?

atb J.

Detached Part of Newland

by probinson @, S. Oxon, Friday, February 01, 2019, 16:15 (51 days ago) @ Jefff

I just found this site...

https://www.citypopulation.de/php/uk-wards-southwestengland.php?adm1id=E07000080

...which, considering it seems to cover the whole world, is pretty impressive in that it's the only site I can find that gives the current Newland parish boundaries.

--
Peter

Detached Part of Newland

by Jefff @, West London, Middlesex, Friday, February 01, 2019, 20:37 (50 days ago) @ probinson

Interesting site Peter, well found. Especially how it shows how low the population density for Newland is nowadays compared to it's neighbours, I wonder how it compared with Coleford and Bream for example pre 1800, probably much closer if not higher ?.

Also makes interesting comparison with this earlier map which is presumably late 1800s.
https://forest-of-dean.net/joomla/index.php/resources/11-maps/89-early-map-of-the-paris...

Detached Part of Newland

by shepway @, Friday, February 01, 2019, 20:45 (50 days ago) @ Jefff

Should users wish to establish the current boundaries of any Ecclesiastical Parish then go to A Church Near You website

Mike

Detached Part of Newland

by RogerrGriffiths @, Swindon, Friday, February 01, 2019, 17:52 (51 days ago) @ Jefff

All Saints, Newland aka the Cathedral of the Forest, included several 'chapels of ease'. Coleford, Bream (parish on it's own from 1812),Redbrook and Clearwell. A parish church was built for Clearwell 1831ish. Same for Coleford c1870's. The remains of Coleford Chapel are still there blocking up the road. Hope I haven't missed any others, but it is a long time since I was immersed in these matters.

Newland had two outstanding incumbents, Henry Douglas and George Ridout who succeeded him. Henry Douglas produced an index to the Newland Parish Registers which is in Gloucestershire CRO and there is at least one photograph of George Ridout on the internet.

Detached Part of Newland

by NElkins, Sunday, February 03, 2019, 11:19 (49 days ago) @ Jefff

Jeff
Thank you and all the others who have given me such helpful background.
I live at Newnham and an "Incomer" to the Forest (1982) and Gloucestershire in 1954.
I am helping a friend who's family were at Ruardean up to 1788. After that time they seem to be in or around Yorkley. St Pauls, Parkend also features in their records. Colliers and Woodmen were their background.
NormanE.

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