Wintles Brewery (General)

by Gary2805, Saturday, February 23, 2019, 19:30 (89 days ago)

Hi,

I am trying to find out any information I can about the the old Railway Inn, in Lea. It was a pub owned by the Wintle Brewery and I believe the last land lady was a Mrs Taylor. Pictures and or information would be welcomely received
May thanks
Gary

Wintles Brewery - Station Inn Publicans

by Mike Pinchin @, Bedford, England, Sunday, February 24, 2019, 11:59 (88 days ago) @ Gary2805

If of interest, a few previous publicans from the newspapers,

1858 Susannah SKINNER

1871 Susannah SKINNER

1877 Transfer to Thomas JACKSON from Susannah SKINNER (who he had recently married)

1879 William CHINN

1900 Transfer from William CHINN to Charles Henry DAVIES

1906 C.H.DAVIES

1907 Transfer from Charles Henry DAVIES to Mr. HAWKER

1909 Charles Henry DAVIES, [later amendment - formerly of the Railway Inn at Lea, now of the New Inn, Ross.]

1937 G.H.GREEN (a former WINTLE employee at the brewery. Can’t confirm whether he was the publican or just living there)

Wintles Brewery - Station Inn Publicans

by MPGriffiths @, Sunday, February 24, 2019, 15:34 (88 days ago) @ Mike Pinchin

? Assume this is the same place

List of Wintle's Brewery Ltd, Pubs

No. 50 : Railway HOTEL, Lea, Near Ross on Wye


The 1939 Census - has lots of 'Officially Closed' names - but does have

Railway Hotel - Ross on Wye, Herefordshire

HARRISON Mary C - born 5 July 1893, Married, Unpaid Domestic Duties

Wintles Brewery - Station Inn Publicans

by MPGriffiths @, Sunday, February 24, 2019, 15:40 (88 days ago) @ MPGriffiths

?

Not sure if this is Mary C HARRISON


---

17 October 1926 - Ross on Wye

Baptism (born 10 August 1926)

Enid Catherine Mary HARRISON

parents: John Balfour and Mary Catherine

residence: Suffol House, Gloucester Road
Occupation: Musical Director


John Frederick Harrison baptised same day

---


1901 Census, Herefordshire, Lea, District 9

Railway HOTEL

Charles DAVIES, 34, Lin Pub Victuallers, born Glos, Cheltenham
Emily 33 - born Monmouth
Beatrice - 1 - born Newport, Monmouthshire
Eliza BULLOCK, - General Servant Domestic, born Glos. Ruardean


William CHINN - is a couple of pages before Charles, aged 56, Farmer, born Glos. Dymock (he was running the Pub in 1891) and also on the 1881 census .... Although the Hotel/Pub isn't named - it is (as on the 1891 census) next to the Station House


1881 Census

William CHINN - 40 - Hotel Keeper, born Dymock, Glos
Susannah - 45 - born Stonehouse, Glos
Susannah - 16 - born ditto
Emily - 12 - born ditto
Charles HODGES, 66 Railway Plateplayer, born Lea, Herford
Eliza HODGES - 69 - ditto + Grocer, born, Mitcheldean, Glos.

Wintles Brewery - Station Inn Publicans

by MPGriffiths @, Sunday, February 24, 2019, 16:07 (88 days ago) @ MPGriffiths

1871 Census

Herefordshire, Upper Lea

Cross (?) on Railway Inn

Susannah SKINNER - Widow - (not sure about her age) - Publican, born Oxenhall, Glos
Ann LANE - Visitor - 11 - born Lea


William CHINN is a few doors away, the Station Master, aged 30 - born Dymock


1861 Census

Rly INN

Susannah SKINNER, Widow 55 - Innkeeper, born Oxenhall, Glos
Mary COLLEY - Sister - Widow - 54 - - Assistant, - born ditto

Wintles Brewery - Station Inn Publicans

by MPGriffiths @, Sunday, February 24, 2019, 16:23 (88 days ago) @ MPGriffiths

1851 census,

The whole of the Parish of Lea Upper - was in Herefordshire
and the whole of the Parish of Lea, Lower - was in Gloucestershire


The 1871 Census the Pub was in Lea Upper

Wintles Brewery - Railway Inn, Lea; Publicans

by Jefff @, West London, Middlesex, Sunday, February 24, 2019, 23:37 (88 days ago) @ MPGriffiths

1861 Census

Rly INN

Susannah SKINNER, Widow 55 - Innkeeper, born Oxenhall, Glos
Mary COLLEY - Sister - Widow - 54 - - Assistant, - born ditto


(FamilySearch transcript has Susannah Skinner aged 60 in 1871 Census).

But wrt the 1861;

I believe this is her baptism record.

Record_ID: 416034
Entry_Number:
Year: 1805
Month: Jan
Day: 13
Parents_Surname: STONE
Child_Forenames: Susanna
Fathers_Forenames: John
Mothers_Forenames: Susanna
Mothers_Surname:
Residence:
Occupation:
Officiating_Minister: Tho[ma]s Davies Minister
Event: Baptism
Memoranda:
Notes:
Register_Reference: P241 IN 1/3
Page_Number:
Parish_Chapel: Oxenhall
Soundex: S350

And her sister, widowed Mary Colley, as with Susannah her age matches the 1861 Census;

Record_ID: 416050
Entry_Number:
Year: 1807
Month: Feb
Day: 11
Parents_Surname: STONE
Child_Forenames: Mary
Fathers_Forenames: John
Mothers_Forenames: Susanna
Mothers_Surname:
Residence:
Occupation:
Officiating_Minister: Tho[ma]s Davies Minister
Event: Baptism
Memoranda:
Notes:
Register_Reference: P241 IN 1/3
Page_Number:
Parish_Chapel: Oxenhall
Soundex: S350


Record_ID: 158505
Entry_Number: 3
Year: 1838
Month: Dec
Day: 6
Grooms_Surname: COLLEY
Grooms_Forenames: Thomas
Grooms_Age: 0
Groom_Condition: Batchelor
Grooms_Occupation: Blacksmith
Grooms_Residence: Oxenhall
Grooms_Fathers_Surname: Colley
Grooms_Fathers_Forenames: John
Grooms_Fathers_Occupation: Blacksmith
Brides_Surname: STONE
Brides_Forenames: Mary
Brides_Age: 0
Brides_Condition: Spinster
Brides_Occupation: [not stated]
Brides_Residence: Oxenhall
Brides_Fathers_Surname: Stone
Brides_Fathers_Forenames: John
Brides_Fathers_Occupation: Blacksmith
Licence_or_Banns: Banns
Date_of_Banns:
Signature_or_Mark: Sign/mark
Witness_1: John Stone
Witness_2: Mary Ann Davis
Other_Witnesses:
Officiating_Minister: John Moore Vicar
Event: Marriage
Memoranda:
Notes:
Register_Reference: P241 IN 1/12
Page_Number: 2
Parish_Chapel: Oxenhall
Soundex_Groom: C400
Soundex_Bride: S350


1841 Culver Street, Newent, Glos.
Household Role Sex Age Birthplace
Thomas Colley M 20-24 Gloucestershire
Mary Colley F 30-34 Gloucestershire
Elizabeth Adams F 65-69 Gloucestershire


1851 Deerhurst, Tewkesbury, Gloucestershire, England
Household Role Sex Age Birthplace
Thomas Colly Head M 33 Blacksmith Journeyman. Newent, Gloucestershire
Mary Colly Wife F 40 Oxenbrall, Gloucestershire


Surname First name(s) Age District Vol Page
Deaths Jun 1857
Colley Thomas Gloucester 6a 147

Death Details
Surname Given Names Age Year Died District Register Entry
COLLEY Thomas 39 1857 Gloucester, St Nicholas 9 46


I cannot find anymore records for Mary.

???


------


Record_ID: 158509
Entry_Number: 7
Year: 1840
Month: Dec
Day: 10
Grooms_Surname: SKINNER
Grooms_Forenames: John
Grooms_Age: 0
Groom_Condition: Batchelor
Grooms_Occupation: Labourer
Grooms_Residence: Oxenhall
Grooms_Fathers_Surname: Skinner
Grooms_Fathers_Forenames: Richard
Grooms_Fathers_Occupation: Labourer
Brides_Surname: STONE
Brides_Forenames: Susan
Brides_Age: 0
Brides_Condition: Spinster
Brides_Occupation: [not stated]
Brides_Residence: Oxenhall
Brides_Fathers_Surname: Stone
Brides_Fathers_Forenames: John
Brides_Fathers_Occupation: Blacksmith
Licence_or_Banns: Licence
Date_of_Banns:
Signature_or_Mark: Both mark
Witness_1: Mark of Michael Jones
Witness_2: Mark of Mary Colley
Other_Witnesses:
Officiating_Minister: J M Sherwood Perpetl Curate
Event: Marriage
Memoranda:
Notes:
Register_Reference: P241 IN 1/12
Page_Number: 4
Parish_Chapel: Oxenhall
Soundex_Groom: S560
Soundex_Bride: S350


1841 Ellend Green, Oxenhall, Glos.
Household Role Sex Age Birthplace
John Skinner M 25-29 Gloucestershire
Susan Skinner F 30-34 Gloucestershire


1851 Lea Upper, Herefordshire, England
Household Role Sex Age Birthplace
John Skinner Head M 38 Ag Lab. Oxenhall, Gloucestershire
Susannah Skinner Wife F 44 Oxenhall, Gloucestershire

Cannot find a definite Death for this John 1851-1861, but it's a very common name.
Maybe ?;

Surname First name(s) Age District Vol Page
Deaths Jun 1858
Skinner John Ross 6a 289

(All of Lea is in Ross District, and at this time both Upper & Lower Lea were in Herefordshire, as MPG has already stated).

I cannot find a marriage for widow Susannah Skinner to Thomas Jackson c1876.

Or any more BMD or Census records for either of these people after this date.

???

Wintles Brewery - Railway Inn, Lea; Publicans

by Jefff @, West London, Middlesex, Monday, February 25, 2019, 15:08 (87 days ago) @ Jefff

Following-up this earlier post from Mike, and MPG's 1901 Census info for C.H.Davies:

"1906 C.H.DAVIES

1907 Transfer from Charles Henry DAVIES to Mr. HAWKER

1909 Charles Henry DAVIES"

-------

Altho' he's still in the hotel trade I don't think Charles H. Davies is still at the Railway Inn by the 1911 Census - don't think the Lea came within the Ross Urban district.
http://www.visionofbritain.org.uk/unit/10136908/boundary


I still cannot be certain which hotel he was at, as I'm reliant on FamilySearch transcript so cannot see the image ie specific place or neighbourhood.

1911 Ross Urban, Ross, Herefordshire, England
Household Role Sex Age Birthplace
Charles H Davis Head M 43 HOTEL PROPRIETOR. Cheltenham Glosshire, Gloucestershire
Emily E Davis Wife F 42 Blaenavon, Monmouthshire
Beatrice E Davis Daughter F 11 Newport, Monmouthshire
Llewellyn Price Father-in-law M 74 WIDOWER, GENTLEMAN. Govilon, Monmouthshire
May E Bevan Barmaid F 23 Chepstow, Monmouthshire
Ida A Mitchell Cook F 28 Hereford, Herefordshire
Harry Coopey Boots M 28 Churcham, Gloucestershire


1891 Engine Pond Row, EBBW VALE, Bedwellty, Monmouthshire
Household Role Sex Age Birthplace
Charles Hy Davies Head M 25 Railway Foreman. Gloucestershire, England
Emily Eva Davies Wife F 25 Monmouthshire, England

etc


==============================

Mr James Hawker (wrt 1913 Directory etc) is rather easier;

1911 Hope Mansel, Lea Ross, Herefordshire, England
Household Role Sex Age Birthplace
James Hawker Proprietor M 56 HOTEL KEEPER. Glos Cinderford, Gloucestershire
Alice Dinah Hawker Wife F 48 Glos Cinderford, Gloucestershire
Fred Jas Hawker Son M 33 ASSISTANT IN HOTEL. Glos Cinderford, Gloucestershire
Fannie Hawker Daughter F 25 ASSISTANT IN HOTEL. Glos Cinderford, Gloucestershire
Edith Hawker Daughter F 24 ASSISTANT IN HOTEL. Glos Cinderford, Gloucestershire
William Harris Visitor M 40 PRIVATE MEANS. Glos Cinderford, Gloucestershire
Alice George Servant F 18 DOMESTIC. Glos Little Dean, Gloucestershire
William Bent Servant M 50 GROOM GARDENER. Hrds Weston, Gloucestershire


1901 High Street, Woodside St Stephens, East Dean, Gloucestershire, England
Household Role Sex Age Birthplace
James Hawker Head M 46 Hotel Proprietor. Cinderford, Gloucestershire
Elizabeth Hawker Wife F 44 Cinderford, Gloucestershire
Fred Hawker Son M 23 Cinderford, Gloucestershire
A M Hawker Daughter F 21 Cinderford, Gloucestershire
Fanny Hawker Daughter F 16 Cinderford, Gloucestershire
Edith E Hawker Daughter F 14 Cinderford, Gloucestershire
Ethel M Hawker Daughter F 8 Cinderford, Gloucestershire
Annie Ireland Servant F 24 Domestic General. Lane End, Gloucestershire

Searching the Glos Pubs database for "Hawker" shows that in 1901, or thereabouts, he was landord of The Lion on Cinderford High Street. Nowadays it's become the "Golden Lion", using that search term will give only 9 pages within the GlosPubs site, including our one which states James Hawker was landlord "in 1902, 1906" and probably the years between.
http://www.gloucestershirepubs.co.uk/AllGlosPubsDatabase/AllGlosPubs_view.php


1891 Cinderford Bridge, St John, East Dean,Gloucestershire
Household Role Sex Age Birthplace
James Hawker Head M 37 Publican. Gloucestershire, England
Elizabeth Hawker Wife F 33 Gloucestershire, England
Frederick Hawker Son M 14 Scholar. Gloucestershire, England
Gertrude Hawker Daughter F 12 Gloucestershire, England
Minnie Hawker Daughter F 9 Gloucestershire, England
Fanny Hawker Daughter F 6 Gloucestershire, England
Edith Hawker Daughter F 4 Gloucestershire, England
Elizabeth Webb Servant F 17 Housemaid. Gloucestershire, England
Fred Brown Man Servant M 16 Hostler. Wiltshire, England

It would appear that James was a good and busy publican, a man of some means, as his children were still listed as scholars and suchlike and living at home, when others of their age would have been out working, especially son Frederick who's schoolmates would have been down the mines by now, just as father James had been as a youth ?

As expected given the address, they were at the recently-demolished Bridge Inn, see
http://www.gloucestershirepubs.co.uk/AllGlosPubsDatabase/RAIGConnection.php?pubid1=1244


1881 St Johns, East Dean, Gloucestershire, England
Household Role Sex Age Birthplace
James Hawker Head M 27 Publican. Cinderford, Gloucestershire, England
Elizabeth Hawker Wife F 25 East Dean, Gloucestershire, England
Frederick Hawker Son M 5 East Dean, Gloucestershire, England
Gertrude Hawker Daughter F 3 East Dean, Gloucestershire, England
Amelia Hawker Daughter F 1 East Dean, Gloucestershire, England


1871 East Dean, Gloucestershire, England
Household Role Sex Age Birthplace
Eliza Hawker Head F 50 Widowed. Broad Oak, Gloucestershire
James Hawker Son M 18 Miner. Cinderford, Gloucestershire

---

Record_ID: 85028
Entry_Number: 1225
Year: 1876
Month: Oct
Day: 29
Parents_Surname: HAWKER
Child_Forenames: Frederick James
Fathers_Forenames: James
Mothers_Forenames: Elizabeth
Mothers_Surname:
Residence: Ruspidge
Occupation: Innkeeper
Officiating_Minister: G.A.Allan
Event: Baptism
Memoranda:
Notes:
Register_Reference: P85/1 IN 1/2
Page_Number: 154
Parish_Chapel: Cinderford St John
Soundex: H260


Record_ID: 85154
Entry_Number: 1330
Year: 1878
Month: Jun
Day: 30
Parents_Surname: HAWKER
Child_Forenames: Gertrude
Fathers_Forenames: James
Mothers_Forenames: Elizabeth
Mothers_Surname:
Residence: Nags Head
Occupation: Inn Keeper

Officiating_Minister: John Phillips
Event: Baptism
Memoranda:
Notes:
Register_Reference: P85/1 IN 1/2
Page_Number: 167
Parish_Chapel: Cinderford St John
Soundex: H260

For Nags Head
see http://www.gloucestershirepubs.co.uk/AllGlosPubsDatabase/RAIGConnection.php?pubid1=1266

Wintles Brewery - Railway Inn, Lea; Jas Hawker 1911

by Jefff @, West London, Middlesex, Monday, February 25, 2019, 15:41 (87 days ago) @ Jefff

Continued:

Record_ID: 85513
Entry_Number: 1689
Year: 1887
Month: Mar
Day: 6
Parents_Surname: HAWKER
Child_Forenames: Edith Elisabeth
Fathers_Forenames: James
Mothers_Forenames: Elisabeth
Mothers_Surname:
Residence: Cinderford
Occupation: Innkeeper
Officiating_Minister: W[illia]m Lynes Vicar
Event: Baptism
Memoranda: Born Feb 6 1887
Notes:
Register_Reference: P85/1 IN 1/2
Page_Number: 212
Parish_Chapel: Cinderford St John
Soundex: H260


Record_ID: 85712
Entry_Number: 1888
Year: 1893
Month: Mar
Day: 15
Parents_Surname: HAWKER
Child_Forenames: Ethel May
Fathers_Forenames: James
Mothers_Forenames: Elisabeth
Mothers_Surname:
Residence: Cinderford
Occupation: Inn Keeper
Officiating_Minister: W[illia]m Lynes Vicar
Event: Baptism
Memoranda: Born Feb 14 1893
Notes:
Register_Reference: P85/1 IN 1/2
Page_Number: 236
Parish_Chapel: Cinderford St John
Soundex: H260

and so on, see this site's PRs for more baptisms.


Record_ID: 32752
Entry_Number: 251
Year: 1876
Month: May
Day: 21
Grooms_Surname: HAWKER
Grooms_Forenames: James
Grooms_Age: full age
Groom_Condition: Bachelor
Grooms_Occupation: Haulier
Grooms_Residence: Cinderford
Grooms_Fathers_Surname: Hawker
Grooms_Fathers_Forenames: Philip
Grooms_Fathers_Occupation: Haulier
Brides_Surname: COOPER
Brides_Forenames: Elizabeth
Brides_Age: 18
Brides_Condition: Spinster
Brides_Occupation: [not stated]
Brides_Residence: Cinderford
Brides_Fathers_Surname: [not stated]
Brides_Fathers_Forenames: [not stated]
Brides_Fathers_Occupation: [not stated]
Licence_or_Banns: Superintendant R
Date_of_Banns:
Signature_or_Mark: Both sign
Witness_1: John Thomas
Witness_2: Mark of Annie Hewlett
Other_Witnesses:
Officiating_Minister: G.A. Allan Vicar
Event: Marriage
Memoranda:
Notes:
Register_Reference: P85/1 IN 1/5
Page_Number: 126
Parish_Chapel: Cinderford St John
Soundex_Groom: H260
Soundex_Bride: C160

Record_ID: 113796
Entry_Number: 300
Year: 1909
Month: Feb
Day: 17
Grooms_Surname: HAWKER
Grooms_Forenames: James
Grooms_Age: 56
Groom_Condition: Widower
Grooms_Occupation: Hotel Proprietor
Grooms_Residence: Cinderford
Grooms_Fathers_Surname: HAWKINS
Grooms_Fathers_Forenames: Philip
Grooms_Fathers_Occupation: Dealer
Brides_Surname: MORGAN
Brides_Forenames: Alice Dinah
Brides_Age: 47
Brides_Condition: W
Brides_Occupation: Farmer
Brides_Residence: Little Dean
Brides_Fathers_Surname: GUEST
Brides_Fathers_Forenames: William
Brides_Fathers_Occupation: Farmer
Licence_or_Banns: [not stated]
Date_of_Banns: [not stated]
Signature_or_Mark: Both sign
Witness_1: Maude Morgan
Witness_2: Richard J. Newman
Other_Witnesses:
Officiating_Minister: Robert Briscoe D.D. Rector
Event: Marriage
Memoranda:
Notes:
Register_Reference: P 110 IN 1/10
Page_Number: 150
Parish_Chapel: Littledean
Soundex_Groom: H260
Soundex_Bride: M625

So James was actually born abt 1854, so he was 21 on his first marriage, perfectly fits the birth of his children, and shows his claimed age in 1911 was a tad optimistic, presumably because of his younger second-wife Alice.

----------


Regarding that 1911 Census for James Hawker at the Railway Inn, Lea, without any disrespect this seems a large family/staff for what was presumably a small and perhaps quiet hotel ?

Sadly that same year the family/staff got smaller, I wonder if Fred had been a sickly lad, which explains him being listed as a scholar at age of 14 when many boys far younger would have been working in the Cinderford mines etc ?

Record_ID: 65920
Entry_Number: 1468
Year: 1911
Month: Dec
Day: 24
Surname: HAWKER
Forenames: Frederick James
Residence: Lea Ross
Age_at_death: 35 years
Officiating_Minister: F. W. Baldwin Vicar
Event: Burial
Cause_of_death:
Memoranda:
Notes:
Register_Reference: P85/1 IN 1/14
Page_No: 185
Parish_Chapel: Cinderford St John
Soundex: H260


Record_ID: 67172
Entry_Number: 1122
Year: 1930
Month: Apr
Day: 12
Surname: HAWKER
Forenames: James
Residence: 69 Belle Vue Road
Age_at_death: 66
Officiating_Minister: pp H M Biddell C Paul Gliddon
Event: Burial
Cause_of_death:
Memoranda:
Notes:
Register_Reference: P85/1 IN 1/15
Page_No: 141
Parish_Chapel: Cinderford St John
Soundex: H260


Record_ID: 67667
Entry_Number: 1616
Year: 1937
Month: Feb
Day: 11
Surname: HAWKER
Forenames: Alice Dinah
Residence: Belle Vue Road Cinderford
Age_at_death: 74
Officiating_Minister: F W Potto Hicks St Stephen`s Cinderford
Event: Burial
Cause_of_death:
Memoranda:
Notes:
Register_Reference: P85/1 IN 1/15
Page_No: 202
Parish_Chapel: Cinderford St John
Soundex: H260

---

On reflection, presumably the Railway Inn c1911 did get some passing trade from commercial salesmen etc ?. Mitcheldean Road Station was the nearest point on the Gloster-Ross-Hereford railway line to the northern Forest, East Dean, Cinderford etc, being about 1.5 miles from Mitcheldean.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mitcheldean_Road_railway_station

Even in it's later days when the surrounding area had become more populated, there are still very few houses and such like near the Railway Inn, see centre-right of this 1948 O.S. map.
https://maps.nls.uk/view/101570418

Wintles Brewery - Railway Inn, Lea; Publicans

by Mike Pinchin @, Bedford, England, Monday, February 25, 2019, 19:33 (87 days ago) @ Jefff

Hi Jeff,

You are quite right about the reference to Charles Henry Davies. On checking I find that I completely misread the 1909 newspaper notice. I should have noted that it said he was formerly of the Railway Inn at the Lea. By at least mid-1909 he was at the New Inn, Ross. I shall amend my post.

Wintles Brewery - Railway Inn, Lea; Publicans

by Mike Pinchin @, Bedford, England, Friday, March 01, 2019, 08:24 (83 days ago) @ Jefff

Just to expand on that 1851 Census entry, the original image gives the name of the SKINNER’s dwelling as Crewses. They must have seized the opportunity when the railway arrived.

Wintles Brewery - Railway Inn, Lea; Publicans

by Jefff @, West London, Middlesex, Friday, March 01, 2019, 15:24 (83 days ago) @ Mike Pinchin

Thanka Mike, yes think you're right.
Let's just hope the train crews didn't start using it for their lunch stops too, all that farmhouse cider on tap, could've made a right Horlicks of the timetables haha.
atb J

Wintles Brewery - Station Inn Publicans

by Mike Pinchin @, Bedford, England, Monday, February 25, 2019, 20:14 (87 days ago) @ MPGriffiths

I think the 1871 Census entry reads “Crooses or Railway Inn”. Since CROOSE is a genuine surname I wonder if it refers to a pre-railway name for the establishment.

Wintles Brewery - Station Inn Publicans

by Jefff @, West London, Middlesex, Monday, February 25, 2019, 21:26 (87 days ago) @ Mike Pinchin

I think the 1871 Census entry reads “Crooses or Railway Inn”. Since CROOSE is a genuine surname I wonder if it refers to a pre-railway name for the establishment.

AND that makes better sense of the rather odd-sounding location in the aforementioned 1856 Trade Directory, "John Skinner, cider retailer, Cruse Farm", who may well be Susannah Skinner's husband at the time.

Thanks Mike !

------

Just looked at the old maps hoping to find a Cruse/Croose Farm marked, hopefully near the Railway Inn. Sadly no such luck whatsoever. The nearest I can find is a Croose Farm still at Woolhope, north of Ross on Wye.

???

I then remembered the hamlet of Aston Crews just a few miles north of Lea - cannot find any history about the placename, but as Mike says the PRs show there were a few people surnamed Croose in Lea village in the 17th and 18th Centuries, and no doubt before that too. By the time of the 1841 Census the nearest I can see was a Charles Croose in Littledean, and in 1851 a John Crews and family in Ross.

Ah well...

Wintles Brewery - Station Inn Publicans

by probinson @, S. Oxon, Sunday, February 24, 2019, 16:36 (88 days ago) @ MPGriffiths

That was the old Railway Hotel in Ross itself, not the one at Lea.

--
Peter

Wintles Brewery - Railway Inn, Lea; Publicans, directories

by Jefff @, West London, Middlesex, Monday, February 25, 2019, 01:07 (88 days ago) @ Mike Pinchin

Another source of information to find publicans are the old Trade Directories.

eg

"Mrs Susannah Skinner" is listed at the Railway Inn within the 1876 Edition of Littlebury's Directory and Gazetteer of Herefordshire, Lea (Upper and Lower).
http://texts.wishful-thinking.org.uk/Littlebury1876/Lea.html
(Probably best opened in new tab or window).

----

William CHINN is listed as;

"Railway Inn" in the VERY brief entry for Lea in Kelly's Directory of Herefordshire, 1885. See page 104 (or 1191 of the index).
http://specialcollections.le.ac.uk/digital/collection/p16445coll4/id/112640

"Farmer, innkeeper of Railway Inn, and Assistant Overseer" in Jakeman & Carver's Directory of Herefordshire, 1890. See page 463 (or 483 of index).
http://specialcollections.le.ac.uk/digital/collection/p16445coll4/id/285208/rec/5

"Farmer and Assistant Overseer" in the Kelly's Directory of Herefordshire, 1913, but James Hawker is at the Railway Inn. See page 130 (or 144 of index).
http://specialcollections.le.ac.uk/digital/collection/p16445coll4/id/295844/rec/3


NB: when searching or changing pages within this site, please be patient and wait, it can be a little slow to respond.


----

The Railway Inn is not mentioned by name within the entry for Lea in the Post Office Directory of Herefordshire, 1856, perhaps because the station (Mitcheldean Road) had only just opened when this Edition was being prepared ?. However the entry for "Mary Ann Dowding (Mrs), beer retailer" MAY refer to what became the Railway Inn ??. She's not at the Crown Inn as a John Lodge is listed there.
Also listed is a "John Skinner, cider retailer, Cruse Farm". This could be Susannah Skinner's husband, see my other post about her.
See page 57 (or 64 of index of the whole book).
http://specialcollections.le.ac.uk/digital/collection/p16445coll4/id/306696/rec/6


It seems that Mary Ann Dowding is probably not at the Railway, or at least not as a live-in tenant, as her address is given as Lower, not Upper, Lea.

???

1851 Lea Lower, Herefordshire, England
Household Role Sex Age Birthplace
William Dowding Head M 42 Butcher. Longhope, Gloucestershire
Mary A Dowding Wife F 36 Wesbury, Gloucestershire
Frederic Dowding Son M 17 Butcher. Lea, Gloucestershire
Sarah Dowding Daughter F 13 Lea, Gloucestershire
Patience Dowding Daughter F 11 Lea, Gloucestershire
Elizabeth Dowding Daughter F 8 Lea, Gloucestershire
William Dowding Son M 7 Lea, Gloucestershire
Mary A Dowding Daughter F 5 Lea, Gloucestershire
Author Hilman Lodger M 35 Postman. Unknow


1841 Lea, Gloucestershire, England
Household Role Sex Age Birthplace
William Dowding M 30-34 Gloucestershire
Mary Dowding F 25-29 Gloucestershire
Sarah Dowding F 3 Gloucestershire
Patience Dowding F 1 Gloucestershire
Eliza Brown F 15-19 Gloucestershire
Thos James M 15-19


Sadly cannot find any of this family in the 1861 Census.

Wintles Brewery

by probinson @, S. Oxon, Sunday, February 24, 2019, 16:58 (88 days ago) @ Gary2805

From Birmingham Daily Post, 17th Feb. 1960:

"Taylor, Robert Scott, licenced victualler, of The Railway Hotel, Lea, Ross-on-Wye, left £5,359 (£5,288 net)."

From the 1939 register:

Line Number Address Schedule Number Name Gender Birth Date Marital Status Occupation Residence Year Residence Place Enumeration District Registration district

33 Railway Hotel 96 1 Robert S Taylor Male 02/02/1890 Married Licenett Vitivaler 1939 Ross and Whitechurch Herefordshire England OGOC 336/2
34 Railway Hotel 96 2 Elsie M Taylor Female 02/11/1900 Married Unpaid Domestic Dut?? 1939 Ross and Whitechurch Herefordshire England OGOC 336/2
35 Railway Hotel 96 3 Robert L Taylor Male 06/06/1928 Single at School 1939 Ross and Whitechurch Herefordshire England OGOC 336/2

--
Peter

Landlord TAYLOR, Railway Inn, Lea, c1939.

by Jefff @, West London, Middlesex, Saturday, March 02, 2019, 22:00 (82 days ago) @ probinson

Has taken a ridiculous amount of time but finally managed to piece together more records for the Taylor family. It seems most of my problem was due to my using just FreeBMD, and not the FamilySearch site that only few days ago on this same thread I was "cursing", haha.

Just goes to show, always pays to use as many sources of reference as possible !


Clearly this is father Robert's death record, but only confirms what we know;

Surname First name(s) Mother/Spouse/Age District Vol Page
Deaths Dec 1959
TAYLOR Robert S 69 Hereford 9a 7


This looks like son Robert's birth, suggesting his mother Elsie was nee Evans.

Surname First name(s) Mother District Vol Page
Births Sep 1928
Taylor Robert L Evans Hereford 6a 698

I cannot find any more Taylor/Evans births around this time & area who may be siblings.

Only the two Robert Scott Taylor/Tailer/Tailor/Tayler in FreeBMD records for whole of UK, both suggesting he's not a local man, but is it our man ?;

Surname First name(s) District Vol Page
Births Mar 1890 (>99%)
Taylor Robert Scott Newcastle T. 10b 175

Births Jun 1901 (>99%)
TAYLOR Robert Scott Tynemouth 10b 268


No shortage of Elsie M (usually May) Taylors in the death records, assuming she didn't remarry of course, these are possibles;

Surname First name(s) Age District Vol Page
Deaths Sep 1964
TAYLOR ELSIE M 63 CHELTENHAM 7B 277

Surname First name(s) DoB District Vol Page
Deaths Jun 1970
TAYLOR Elsie May 17Se1900 Hereford 9a 110

Surname First name(s) DoB District Vol Page
Deaths Mar 1973
TAYLOR ELSIE MARY 2NO1899 GLOUCESTER C 7B 1362


Despite trying several times, using various spelling alternatives, and from various angles, I cannot find the parents' marriage using normally-reliable FreeBMD.
HOWEVER, using FamilySearch I quickly found this record, Seems an excellent fit regarding son Robert's birth date and location.

Name Elsie M A Evans
Event Type Marriage Registration
Event Place Kington, Herefordshire, England
Registration District Kington
County Herefordshire
Registration Year 1928
Registration Quarter Jan-Feb-Mar
Page 795
Affiliate Line Number 148
Volume 6A
Spouse Name (available after 1911) Taylor
Possible Spouse Robert Taylor

In fact I had already seen this record on FreeBMD, but they have incorrectly transcribed as "Kingston", Surrey; I've submitted a correction request.

So, revisiting Elsie again on FreeBMD, quickly find this likely record;

Surname First name(s) Age District Vol Page
Births Mar 1900
EVANS Elsie Mary A Kington 6a 575


Could this be her, amazing how a simple "A" can make a commonplace name suddenly become less so;

Surname First name(s) Age District Vol Page
Deaths Jun 1966
TAYLOR ELSIE M A 63 ELSTREE 4B 55

Does this mean son Robert was already in Elstree (Hertfordshire) area and Elsie moved there when husband Robert died a few years before ?. There are a few marriage records in that area that may be him, but it seems that "Robert L Taylor" is commonplace everywhere !

Anyway, this def looks like her as a child;

1911 Old Radnor And Burlingjobb, Kington, Herefordshire, England
Household Role Sex Age Birthplace
William Evans Head M 48 LIME BURNER. Old Radnor, Radnorshire
Mary Ann Evans Wife F 38 Pembridge, Herefordshire
Elsie Mary Ann Evans Daughter F 11 Strinds, Radnorshire
Agnes Elenor Evans Daughter F 8 Burlingjobb, Radnorshire
Annie Evans Daughter F 6 Burlingjobb, Radnorshire
Lewis Evans Son M 3 Burlingjobb
Henry Bowen Boarder M 19 LIME STONE QUARRY MAN. New Port Lodge, Herefordshire

To my surprise, especially given it's FamilySearch of supposedly poor transcriptions, I'm delighted to find Burlingjobb is indeed a real placename, as is Strinds !
http://www.visionofbritain.org.uk/place/3727
https://www.genuki.org.uk/big/wal/RAD/OldRadnor

The abundant limestone was clearly important for local employment.
https://www.genuki.org.uk/big/wal/RAD/OldRadnor/Gaz1868


1901 Old Radnor And Burlingjobb (Radnor), Herefordshire, Wales
Household Role Sex Age Birthplace
William Evans Head M 37 CARTER AT LIME WORKS. Old Radnor, Radnorshire
Mary Ann E Evans Wife F 28 Pembridge, Herefordshire
Elsie Mary Ann Evans Daughter F 1 Old Radnor, Radnorshire


Name William Evans
Event Type Marriage
Event Date 15 Nov 1893
Event Place Glascwm, Radnorshire, Wales
Age 28
Birth Year (Estimated) 1865
Spouse's Name Mary Ann Hughes


1891 Kingswood, Kington, Herefordshire
Household Role Sex Age Birthplace
William Evans Head M 57 Widower. Wheelwright . ?
William Evans Son M 28 Wheelwright's Assistant. Discoyd
Jane Evans Daughter F 23 Discoyd
Ann Evans Daughter F 20 Presteigne, Bridge End
Elizabeth Evans Daughter F 12 Bridge End

https://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/HEF/Discoed/Gaz1868

Landlord TAYLOR, Railway Inn, Lea.

by probinson @, S. Oxon, Saturday, March 02, 2019, 22:08 (82 days ago) @ Jefff

You might want to change your title Jeff - too many threads about pubs I guess.

--
Peter

Landlord TAYLOR, Railway Inn, Lea.

by Jefff @, West London, Middlesex, Saturday, March 02, 2019, 22:36 (82 days ago) @ probinson

Ooops, thanks Peter, if only it was cos I'd been in them haha... hic.

At least this forum, if not modern Britain, has "too many" pubs.. cheers !

Wintles Brewery, Railway Inn, Lea; history & photos ?.

by Jefff @, West London, Middlesex, Monday, February 25, 2019, 23:46 (87 days ago) @ Gary2805

Hi Gary,
and beated welcome to the forum and website,
As MPG has suggested one "problem" I have finding information or even photos of the Railway Inn is that Lea village is in the "grey" area of the Glos-Herefordshire borders. I know of a few excellent books and websites discussing the old pubs in the Forest and Glostershire county, but none for Herefordshire. Similarly, that county isn't as well served for famiy history websites and suchlike as the FoD and Glos.

Knowing that parts of Lea have at times been within Glostershire, I've had a look at the Glos Archives website and their online search engine does give over 900 ! hits for "Lea". Personally I never seen to get along with this searchh engine, in this instance many of these relate to people named Lea, and not the place, and so on. However trying to search "Lea Railway" etc doesnt help at all, as this gives just 3 hits, none relate to the pub in any way. I suggest you need to either thoroughly search & browse the site yourself, or maybe visit Gloster Archives in person. In case you didn't know, be wary that altho the village is sometimes spelt as Leigh in old books, be warned that there is another larger village named Leigh in Gloucestershire, north of Gloster city.
https://ww3.gloucestershire.gov.uk/CalmView/Overview.aspx

This leaves you with the new-looking Herefordshire Archives website, who's search-engine I'm afraid I struggle with (again!). Hopefully you'll have more luck with it, or maybe contact or visit the Archives themselves.
https://www.herefordshire.gov.uk/archives

You might also try the National Archives site, altho I suspect that will direct you to their regional centres. eg
http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/results/r?_q=lea%2C+herefordshire

----

Often this forum mentions the excellent "British History Online" website, an online portal for the information that has been collated within the Victoria County History books - a large set of "big red" books covering the whole country. Sadly not all the books have yet made the website - eg Longhope and Huntley volumes only went online last year, and they don't cover Lea. Worse still, not all the country has made the books, and Herefordshire is one of those areas which is still work-in-progress.
See https://www.victoriacountyhistory.ac.uk/counties/herefordshire
Althought the county gets a few mentions within lists, I cannot find any detailed content online at all.
Search here, https://www.british-history.ac.uk/catalogue/midlands


However, if you visit a main county library, or perhaps the Archives centres mentioned above, they may have the book format if they exist (to my surprise my local library, the main one for the London Borough in which I live, has a set of these across many shelves, but they are very old editions and were undoubtedly a massive investment to buy.
See here, https://www.victoriacountyhistory.ac.uk/publications-projects/where-to-find-vch-volumes


Finally, regarding photos or similar for the Railway Inn, Lea, if I were you I'd consider writing to the local newspapers (Ross, Newent etc), in the hope that someone can help you, or point you towards a book with an image in, probably one of the "Old Photo" series....

A problem I often have is that despite owning several books by Humphrey Phelps for example, all containing hundreds of old photos of the Forest, usually taken from old postcards, none of his books have indexes, so finding a particular place can be a real needle in haystack, I really must write my own index.

Searching online for old photos of Lea draws virtually no hits, presumably because it is such a tiny place on the edge of the county. For example I can find none here;
https://www.herefordshirehistory.org.uk/archive/herefordshire-images

The usually prolific Frith postcards site has none.
https://www.francisfrith.com/uk/lea,herefordshire

The view on this site is, I think, the main A40 road thro' the village centre, with the Crown in the distance on righthand side of the road, so certainly not the Railway Inn.
http://www.footstepsphotos.co.uk/Herefordshire/hefp01-herefordshire-photographs.htm

Mitcheldean Road Station & Railway Inn; video and photos ?.

by Jefff @, West London, Middlesex, Tuesday, February 26, 2019, 01:40 (87 days ago) @ Jefff

I've found this great home-video of a 1959 wedding party at Mitcheldean Road Station, seeing the happy couple off on their honeymoon. Part of the film shows them walking up the approach road to the station, however it's unclear which direction they're coming from. In the distance buildings can be seen, hard to tell what they are from the map, but the road layout suggests its not the same (southern) side of the tracks as the Railway Inn ??.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XeL0uYzH2hY

However this 1957 photo was taken from a train entering the station from the western (Ross) side, so the buildings in the background are on the southern side of the tracks past the sidings. One of them is probably the Railway Inn, probably the large white one, but sadly it's largely obscured.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/blue-diesels/26914368720

Compare both the above with this map from 1948.
https://maps.nls.uk/view/101570418

Hoping this is of interest,
Jeff.

Mitcheldean Road Station & Railway Inn; video and photos ?.

by probinson @, S. Oxon, Tuesday, February 26, 2019, 06:53 (86 days ago) @ Jefff

Those white buildings in the background of both the photograph and the video are later and are not shown on the map you linked to Jeff. On Google street view they look like prefab buildings, a lot of which were constructed after the war. The Railway Inn is a red brick faced building further along the road. It's easy to find on street view.

Edit: My mistake, they are on the map but the other buildings behind are not so must be later.

--
Peter

Useless bit of information

by probinson @, S. Oxon, Tuesday, February 26, 2019, 16:24 (86 days ago) @ probinson

If you wander along the road from the inn to where the railway was, you'll come across this odd shaped wall.

[image]

It's, presumably, what's left of the bridge that carried the railway over the road, built from the local brownstones. Seems they left some in place as a retaining wall and capped it off.

--
Peter

Mitcheldean Road Station & Railway Inn; video and photos ?.

by Jefff @, West London, Middlesex, Tuesday, February 26, 2019, 18:40 (86 days ago) @ probinson

Cheers Peter, that map was the latest I could find and was moreorless same era as both video & photo. I stick with my thoughts re the video is prob looking north from the station, wheras the photo is looking south where I thought the pub was, compared to the station that is. But yes compared to the map you're right, it was/is further long the road, away from the sidings.


If only I'd know in advance the pub was a red brick building lol, it never occurred to me it would still be there. I can't believe I didn't think of using Streetview for the station, especially as I did use it when checking the view thro the village on the A40 haha. Nice brickwork features and still got the sash windows, very nice.

Like that retaining wall too by the way, very nice touch, and has given the new "little" house a lovely flat lawn too.

Off for a lie-down now...

Thanks.

Mitcheldean Road Station & Railway Inn; video and photos ?.

by Mike Pinchin @, Bedford, England, Tuesday, February 26, 2019, 20:27 (86 days ago) @ Jefff

GR 1841 Census, Hamlet of Lea Bailey, Crooses

Hannah NICHOLS, 38, Schoolmistress, not born in county
James BALDWIN, 36, Ag Lab, born in county

The Railway Inn was somewhat south-west of Lea towards Lea Bailey. The Census progresses on to Dean Common and Howley Grove so could have included any dwelling at the site of the Inn.

Mitcheldean Road Station & Railway Inn; video and photos ?.

by Jefff @, West London, Middlesex, Tuesday, February 26, 2019, 23:35 (86 days ago) @ Mike Pinchin

Thanks Mike, interesting stuff.

I guess I didn't find that one because I had "Lea" in my search field, good old FamilySearch has it as being "Crooses, NEWLAND, Glos" - with no mention of "Lea" ... And this was despite my searching Lea Glos as well as Lea Herefordshire. Ah well.

To be fair when I first took-up this hobby, all the text books told me to beware LDS cum FamilySearch and their poor transcriptions, so this had to happen eventually.

Must admit I still always think of Newland as being Coleford way, but yes they're correct.

Think it's def time for me to invest again in a proper subscription.
atb J

--

fyi, FamilySearch has;

1841 Newland, Gloucestershire, England
Residence Note Crooses
Household Role Sex Age Birthplace
Hannah Nichols F 38-42
James Baldwin M 36-40 Gloucestershire


1851 ???, Gloucestershire, England
Registration District Westbury On Severn
Residence Note Rudge Lane
Household Role Sex Age Birthplace
James Baldwin Head M 45 Farmer Of 10 Acres & Hallier. Ross, Herefordshire
Hannah Nicholls Servant F 49 Unmarried.General Servant. Weston Under Penyard, Herefordshire
Ann Nicholls Lodger F 51 Weston Under Penyard, Herefordshire

Weston is very near Lea of course, AND "famous" for it's "Cross" ....
https://www.francisfrith.com/weston-under-penyard/weston-under-penyard-weston-cross-inn...

---

Record_ID: 565661
Entry_Number:
Year: 1799
Month: Aug
Day: 4
Parents_Surname: NICHOLLS
Child_Forenames: Hannah
Fathers_Forenames: William
Mothers_Forenames: Frances
Mothers_Surname:
Residence: Weston u Penyard
Occupation:
Officiating_Minister: C N Michell curate
Event: Baptism
Memoranda: Bile Mill
Notes:
Register_Reference: AA33/3
Page_Number:
Parish_Chapel: Weston under Penyard
Soundex: N242


Record_ID: 565611
Entry_Number:
Year: 1796
Month: Jun
Day: 19
Parents_Surname: NICHOLLS
Child_Forenames: Anne
Fathers_Forenames: William
Mothers_Forenames: Frances
Mothers_Surname:
Residence: Weston u Penyard
Occupation:
Officiating_Minister: C N Michell curate
Event: Baptism
Memoranda: Bile Mill
Notes:
Register_Reference: AA33/3
Page_Number:
Parish_Chapel: Weston under Penyard
Soundex: N242
Record_ID: 392799
Entry_Number: 568
Year: 1855
Month: Jul
Day: 6
Surname: NICHOLLS
Forenames: Ann
Residence: East Dean
Age_at_death: 56
Officiating_Minister: Edward Burdett Hawkshaw Rector
Event: Burial
Cause_of_death:
Memoranda:
Notes:
Register_Reference: AA33/15
Page_No: 71
Parish_Chapel: Weston under Penyard
Soundex: N242

Post reply

Mitcheldean Road Station & Railway Inn; video and photos ?.

by probinson @, S. Oxon, Tuesday, February 26, 2019, 21:48 (86 days ago) @ Jefff

If only I'd know in advance the pub was a red brick building lol, it never occurred to me it would still be there.

I find using the overlay maps from NLS helps to locate buildings as you can overlay the old maps onto current ones so it's easy to identify the current location.

Try this:

https://maps.nls.uk/geo/explore/#zoom=17&lat=51.8880&lon=-2.4987&layers=6&a...


Use the transparency tool on the left to switch between old an new maps.

--
Peter

Mitcheldean Road Station & Railway Inn; video and photos ?.

by Jefff @, West London, Middlesex, Tuesday, February 26, 2019, 23:21 (86 days ago) @ probinson

Cheers again Peter, yes I've used that myself, its very good !.
Think I was just so focussed on trying to find "old" photos I foolishly didn't think of the "now", or at least not regarding the pub itself. Maybe cos seem to spend so much time these days talking about great old pubs that have now been demolished, grr.

Still seems odd that despite lot's of searching not one photo or mention ever came up, presumably cos its a bit no-mans land twixt the 2 counties, and to be fair it's perhaps not the most photo-genic / picturesque of buildings.

Thanks again sir.

Wintles Brewery

by Gary2805, Tuesday, February 26, 2019, 08:34 (86 days ago) @ Gary2805

I big thank you all who have responsed to my original post. I look forward to more info if any one has something. I do know that the Railway Inn was a Wintles Brewery, which was later sold to Cheltenham Ales and Stout, and which eventually got sold to Whitbread.

Wintles Brewery

by tuffers64, Wednesday, February 27, 2019, 10:28 (85 days ago) @ Gary2805

I can remember going into the inn, nearby to Mitcheldean Road Station, sometime in the 1970's, after a group of us had been caving up on Wigpool. It must have been on its last legs 'cos there was hardly anyone in there, and we had to search for the bar room as the other rooms appeared to used domestically. I had only been there the once and this was the best part of 45 years ago. I'm sure my recollections are correct. Regards

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