Tom TAYLOR born Alvington abt 1873 (General)

by Valx, Sunday, April 28, 2019, 10:26 (28 days ago)

Hi
I hope someone can help point me to possible records/sources to identify this person, shown as a scholar in the 1881 census.

I have Eliza Ann Taylor born 8 Sep 1870 in Falfield, Glos although in all census records the estimate is 1871. I was able to confirm her dob from the 1939 register under her married name of Leonard. Daughter of William Taylor (his father Thomas) and Eliza Taylor (nee Taylor - confusingly- her parents James and Ann).

In the 1881 census, she is shown as a boarder at 49 Salter St, Berkley, Thornbury, Glos in a household consisting of a single woman Louise Coupland, 48, born Bristol, school mistress, and her cousin also born in Bristol, 49, assistant, plus a 6 other children aged 8-11. Presumably this address was a school?

What interested me was whether Tom Taylor was related in any way to Eliza Ann Taylor, but I haven't seen any other census entry for a Tom born in Alvington and I haven't been able to establish who his parents were. However I have been looking at transcriptions not originals so possibly Alvington does appear on originals but is shown as Gloucestershire on the transcripts?

Thanks.
Val

Tom TAYLOR born Alvington abt 1873

by MPGriffiths @, Sunday, April 28, 2019, 11:37 (28 days ago) @ Valx

Forest of Dean records has transcribed TOM as JOHN


Tom TAYLOR
baptism - Alvington, Gloucestershire
27 October 1872

parents: John TAYLOR (farmer) and Sarah Jane TAYLOR

Tree on Ancestry

with links to Marriage at St Mary's Church Berkeley - 23 January 1907 (by licence)

Tom TAYLOR, Bachelor, Hotel Keeper, residence: Sharpness - father: John TAYLOR (deceased)

Ada Mauda LEONARD, Spinster, father, Samuel LEONARD, (deceased)

witnesses: George CLARK and Emil Kendrick?

On the 1911 census, at Sharpness, Hinton, Gloucestershire

Tom TAYLOR born Alvington abt 1873

by MPGriffiths @, Sunday, April 28, 2019, 11:46 (28 days ago) @ MPGriffiths

Tom TAYLOR, 1872, Stroud, Thornbury, Berkeley, mother's maiden name: DOUGHTY


Siblings on Forest of Dean Records


at Alvington

1861, Susan Watkins TAYLOR (mother's maiden name: DOUGHTY
1862, George Swayne TAYLOR
1863, Jane TAYLOR
1864, John Dearman TAYLOR


1861 Census, Alvington

TAYLOR

John - 24 born Glos. Alvington (Farmer)
Sarah J - 25 born Wales, Swansea
Susan W TAYLOR 24 (2m) - born Gloucestershire, Alvington

+ Emily LEWIS - 16 - Maid of Allwork - born Glos. Alvington
Fredrick CROES - 14 - Boy - born Glos. Woolastone

Tom TAYLOR born Alvington abt 1873

by Mike Pinchin @, Bedford, England, Sunday, April 28, 2019, 11:58 (28 days ago) @ MPGriffiths

Ancestry

Name: John Taylor
Gender: Male
Marriage Date: 29 May 1860
Marriage Place: Saint James,Paddington,London,England
Father: Thomas Taylor
Spouse: Sarah Jane Doughty

Tom TAYLOR born Alvington abt 1873

by MPGriffiths @, Sunday, April 28, 2019, 12:04 (28 days ago) @ Mike Pinchin

Confirmation of Marriage

29 May 1860 at the Parish Church of Paddington, Middex (by Licence)

John TAYLOR, bachelor, farmer - Alvington, Gloucestershire

father: Thomas TAYLOR, farmer


Sarah Jane DOUGHTY, full age, sppinster, residence: St James, Paddington

father: John DOUGHTY, Inn keeper


witnesses: W Harding ?

Mary .... TAYLOR

John DOUGHTY


--- Baptism at Saint Mary, Swansea, Glamorgan

16 September 1835, birth date: 15 August 1835

Sarah Jane DOUGHTY - parents: John & Ellen

Tom TAYLOR born Alvington abt 1873

by Jefff @, West London, Middlesex, Sunday, April 28, 2019, 19:41 (28 days ago) @ MPGriffiths

A "Thomas Taylor, farmer of Court End", is listed in both these 1876 and 1894 Alvington Trade Directories.

http://freepages.rootsweb.com/~cbennett/genealogy/alvington1876.htm

http://freepages.rootsweb.com/~cbennett/genealogy/alvington1894.htm

Tom TAYLOR born Alvington abt 1873

by Valx, Sunday, April 28, 2019, 20:27 (28 days ago) @ MPGriffiths

So to summarise, Tom Taylor born about 1873 and on the 1881 census as at a British school in Berkeley, was the son of John Taylor and Sarah Jane Taylor (nee Doughty born Swansea), being baptised in Oct 1872 at Alvington. Tom's father John being the son of Thomas Taylor. Tom later became a hotel keeper, marrying Ada Maude Leonard (her father being Samuel Leonard dec'd) in 1907.

Whereas Eliza Ann Taylor born and baptised in 1870 in Falfield (but shown as 1871 in censuses) was the daughter of William Taylor born 1838 (place unknown) and Eliza Taylor (nee Taylor) born 1847 Rockhampton, who married in St. Philip And St. Jacob, Bristol in June 1870. Perhaps a shotgun wedding? William's father was Thomas Taylor (stated in marriage details).

So can't say for certain if the two children at the school had Thomas as a common ancestor.

Eliza Taylor was the daughter of James Taylor and Ann nee Allen. I have found the James/Ann household on most censuses and most children were born in Rockhampton but the family ended up in Tintern. I have Eliza Taylor with Eliza Ann Taylor as visitors in James and Ann's household in the 1871 census in Tintern, but couldn't find William anywhere. Then Eliza Ann is at school in 1881, but not found Eliza or William, then in 1891 is with Eliza Taylor, widow, farmer, at Kingshill Farm, Hinton, Berkeley.

For Eliza Ann Taylor, I have her marriage in 1891 to Arthur John Leonard, born 1864, Uley, son of John Samuel Leonard born abt 1831 in Hill, Glos, and he was son of Samuel Leonard born 1791 in Hill. Ada M Leonard was one of Arthur John Leonard's sisters so probably the bride of Tom Taylor. I have already found plenty of Leonard info since I have been working back from Mary Leonard born 1901 and have found out a lot.

The conclusion is - too many Taylors to sort this out! And the mystery of where William was for each census.

Thanks once again to all of you who have provided such interesting and useful information so quickly.

Tom TAYLOR born Alvington abt 1873

by Jefff @, West London, Middlesex, Sunday, April 28, 2019, 21:06 (28 days ago) @ Valx

Hi Valx, I've read thro' the thread but may have missed something so apologies if this has already been posted, but could this be your William, seems to fit quite nicely ?

1851 Thornbury, Gloucestershire, England
Household Role Sex Age Birthplace
Thomas Taylor Head M 35 Farmer. Thornbury, Gloucestershire
Emma Taylor Wife F 35 Berkeley, Gloucestershire
William Taylor Son M 14 Farmers Son. Berkeley, Gloucestershire
Emma Taylor Daughter F 12 Eastington, Gloucestershire
Hannah Mary Taylor Daughter F 6 Eastington, Gloucestershire
Thomas Taylor Son M 3 Eastwood, Gloucestershire
Eliza Jane Taylor Daughter F 0 Eastwood,
Harriot Wilcox Servant F 21 Thornbury, Gloucestershire
Samuel Boalton Servant M 17 Almondsbury, Gloucestershire
Sarah Hudson Nurse F 69 Widow. Cromhall, Gloucestershire


Also from FamilySearch;

Name William Taylor
Gender Male
Christening Date 22 May 1836
Christening Date (Original) 22 MAY 1836
Christening Place BERKELEY,GLOUCESTER,ENGLAND
Father's Name Thomas Taylor
Mother's Name Emma


Name Thomas Taylor
Spouse's Name Emma Barton
Event Date 10 Nov 1835
Event Place Berkeley,Gloucester,England
Citing this Record
"England Marriages, 1538–1973 ," database, FamilySearch

---

Same family I think, found while searching Eliza Jane;

1881 Moorslade Lane, Thornbury, Gloucestershire, England
Household Role Sex Age Birthplace
Thomas Taylor Head M 70 Widower. Farmer 70 Acres, 1 Laborer. Oldbury On Severn, Gloucestershire, England
Thomas Taylor Son M 30 Farmer 33 Acres. Eastwood Falfield, Gloucestershire, England
Eliza Taylor Daughter F 28 Farmers Daughter. Eastwood Falfield, Gloucestershire, England
Emma Hall Servant F 14 Earthcott Olveston, Gloucestershire, England

Tom TAYLOR born Alvington abt 1873

by Mike Pinchin @, Bedford, England, Sunday, April 28, 2019, 12:25 (28 days ago) @ Valx

Ancestry

Name: Eliza Ann Taylor
Event Type: Baptism
Baptism Date: 2 Oct 1870
Baptism Place: Falfield, Gloucestershire, England
Parish as it Appears: Falfield
Residence: Falfield
Father: William Taylor (Farmer)
Mother: Eliza Taylor

Tom TAYLOR born Alvington abt 1873

by MPGriffiths @, Sunday, April 28, 2019, 12:33 (28 days ago) @ Mike Pinchin

John TAYLOR and 'Jane' TAYLOR had two children christened at Huntley

Eleanor - 16 September 1866 and Mary - 5 April 1868 - residence: Woodluck Farm


by 1871 3 children of John & Sarah Jane TAYLOR are living with their grandparents at Alvington

Thos TAYLOR - 66 - farmer of 80 acres born Awre
Jane TAYLOR - 62
George W TAYLOR - 32 - unmarried son
Thos TAYLOR - 30 - umarried son
Susan W TAYLOR, grand-daughter - 10 - born Huntley
Elleanor TAYLOR, grand-daughter 4 - born Huntley
Mary TAYLOR - 3, ditto
Celia WEBB - 17
Charles REEKS - 17


1871 Census, Alvington

Beanhill

John TAYLOR, 35 - Butcher - born Glos Alvington
Jane TAYLOR - 35 - born Glamorgan, Swansea
George TAYLOR - son - 6 - born Glos, Alvington
John T - son - 6 - born ditto
Emily - dau - 1 - born Huntley

--


? Burial at Alvington

18 October 1876

John TAYLOR aged 39
residence: Sharpness Point in the parish of Berkeley


1881 Census - Gloucester St Mary Crypt

Ducie Arms Inn

Jane TAYLOR - Head - 45 - W Landlady - born Swansea
John DOUGHTY - brother - unmarried - 43 - no occupation, born London
Susan TAYLOR - daughter - 20 - assist in bar - born Alvington
Emily TAYLOR - daughter - 13 - born Huntley


etc

--

and at Alvington

12 December 1900

Sarah Jane TAYLOR aged 65
residence: Sharpness Point Berkeley

Tom TAYLOR born Alvington abt 1873

by Mike Pinchin @, Bedford, England, Sunday, April 28, 2019, 19:05 (28 days ago) @ MPGriffiths

BNA Gloucestershire Chronicle - Saturday 21 October 1876

DEATHS

Oct. 13, at the Sharpness Hotel, suddenly, of inflammation of the lungs, John Taylor, aged 39 years.

Tom TAYLOR born Alvington abt 1873

by Valx, Sunday, April 28, 2019, 19:59 (28 days ago) @ Mike Pinchin

BNA Gloucestershire Chronicle - Saturday 21 October 1876

DEATHS

Oct. 13, at the Sharpness Hotel, suddenly, of inflammation of the lungs, John Taylor, aged 39 years.

Sounds nasty.

Tom TAYLOR born Alvington abt 1873

by Valx, Sunday, April 28, 2019, 12:59 (28 days ago) @ Mike Pinchin

Thanks to MPGriffiths and Mike Pinchin for all those details and so quickly too! Now I need to get pen and paper out to sort out the relationships and timelines.

One question that someone might be able to answer is whether that address in the 1881 census in Berkley was a school - a very select one! Perhaps the families could afford to board out their children and have them educated at an age when many would be house servants or field labourers.

Tom TAYLOR born Alvington abt 1873

by MPGriffiths @, Sunday, April 28, 2019, 13:27 (28 days ago) @ Valx

On the net :

Berkeley's Kellys Directory 1863

COUPLAND Hannah (Miss) Ladies School

It does state in the introduction....

'There are a free school and a British school supported chiefly by voluntary contributions'

+ PASKETT Julia (Miss) Ladies' School

PUBLIC SCHOOL FREE : Rev John Seton-Karr MA Master : William George, Second Master

----


There is a Public Members Tree on Ancestry re Hannah COUPLAND the Headmistress at Salter Street, 1881 census - Berkeley


1841 census, High Street, Berkeley, with Hannah (Schoolmistress) and Louisa - aged 10 + a couple of students

Louisa was there as Headmistress on the 1851 census, Salter Street, Berkeley


1861 census again in Berkeley, this time the High Street, Louisa - along with her mother: Hannah COPLAND - aged 62, Schoolmistress born Glos. Hinton - along with 3 students.

Tom TAYLOR born Alvington abt 1873

by Valx, Sunday, April 28, 2019, 14:00 (28 days ago) @ MPGriffiths

On the net :

Berkeley's Kellys Directory 1863

COUPLAND Hannah (Miss) Ladies School

It does state in the introduction....
'There are a free school and a British school supported chiefly by voluntary contributions'

+ PASKETT Julia (Miss) Ladies' School

PUBLIC SCHOOL FREE : Rev John Seton-Karr MA Master : William George, Second Master

Thanks - interesting. Wonder what a British school is? Will have to Google it.

There is a Public Members Tree on Ancestry re Hannah COUPLAND the Headmistress at Salter Street, 1881 census - Berkeley

This is the census entry that I found as it had Eliza Ann Taylor as a scholar there along with Tom Taylor.

1841 census, High Street, Berkeley, with Hannah (Schoolmistress) and Louisa - aged 10 + a couple of students

Louisa was there as Headmistress on the 1851 census, Salter Street, Berkeley

1861 census again in Berkeley, this time the High Street, Louisa - along with her mother: Hannah COPLAND - aged 62, Schoolmistress born Glos. Hinton - along with 3 students.

Seems like a very select school with so few scholars!

Tom TAYLOR born Alvington abt 1873

by MPGriffiths @, Sunday, April 28, 2019, 14:30 (28 days ago) @ Valx

On the this site there is the 1879 Kelly's Directory for Berkeley (under the Heading: RESOURCES)


'There is an endowed Free School and a National School supported solely by Lord Fitzhardinge: there is also a National school at Wick, a Church school at Sharpness supported by the Dock Company, and a Public Elementary school at Purton, maintained by George Muller, esq of Bristol.'

"British Schools" etc, Berkeley and rest of UK

by Jefff @, West London, Middlesex, Sunday, April 28, 2019, 18:59 (28 days ago) @ Valx

Ref the term "British Schools", this term is somewhat misleading as it implies a Government institution, but those were known as National Schools. These National Schools were run by the local Church minister, so on Church of England lines, whereas it seems the "British Schools" were created by and presumably attended by Non-Conformists.

Sadly the Berkeley area isn't yet covered by the excellent British History website, but an idea about the early days of schooling within the Forest, which echoed the whole country, may be gained from this abridged excerpt.

ELEMENTARY SCHOOLS.
The educational system of the Forest of Dean has its roots principally in the missionary work of Anglican ministers in the early 19th century. Procter led the way in 1813 by opening a day school in his new chapel at Berry Hill and was followed by Henry Berkin who established a similar school at Holy Trinity church near Drybrook in 1819.... Those schools were on the National plan and, deriving only a small part of their income from pence and other parental contributions, depended for survival on financial assistance from the Crown, acting through the Commissioners of Woods, Forests, and Land Revenues, and a few wealthy patrons. In the 1820s and 1830s several smaller, presumably dame, schools funded solely by parental payments were opened mostly in or near Cinderford. The Forest's chief colliery owner Edward Protheroe built a large school in Cinderford in 1840 but in general mine owners and ironmasters paid education little attention at that time. Apart from a British school started by Cinderford colliery owner Aaron Gould in 1851, nonconformist endeavours in education were, until the advent of a school board, confined mostly to the running of Sunday schools and bible classes."
https://www.british-history.ac.uk/vch/glos/vol5/pp405-413


In more general terms, as taken from the long-established Victoria County History books, which itself gives the BH website,

"Education 1870 onwards
The history of schooling is often a story of the 19th and 20th centuries. Most rural parishes had a school of some sort by 1870, usually National (i.e. Church of England) schools administered by the incumbent. The nonconformists also set up a large number of day schools, as well as Sunday schools, in the first three-quarters of the 19th century, often (but not always) known as British schools. Even quite small villages had dame schools and larger places had more ambitious private schools, particularly for girls. Many workhouses also ran their own schools until after 1870."

More here
https://www.victoriacountyhistory.ac.uk/local-history/social-history/guidelines/educati...

Also find a good summary here
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_education_in_England#National_schools_and_Brit...

"British Schools" etc, Berkeley and rest of UK

by Valx, Sunday, April 28, 2019, 19:58 (28 days ago) @ Jefff

Thanks for that info - you beat me to it searching on Google.

Tom TAYLOR born Alvington abt 1873

by Valx, Monday, April 29, 2019, 08:04 (27 days ago) @ Valx

Reposting this so it appears in chronological order in the topic - I put it in the wrong place:

So to summarise, Tom Taylor born about 1873 and on the 1881 census as at a British school in Berkeley, was the son of John Taylor and Sarah Jane Taylor (nee Doughty born Swansea), being baptised in Oct 1872 at Alvington. Tom's father John being the son of Thomas Taylor. Tom later became a hotel keeper, marrying Ada Maude Leonard (her father being Samuel Leonard dec'd) in 1907.

Whereas Eliza Ann Taylor born and baptised in 1870 in Falfield (but shown as 1871 in censuses) was the daughter of William Taylor born 1838 (place unknown) and Eliza Taylor (nee Taylor) born 1847 Rockhampton, who married in St. Philip And St. Jacob, Bristol in June 1870. Perhaps a shotgun wedding? William's father was Thomas Taylor (stated in marriage details).

So can't say for certain if the two children at the school had Thomas as a common ancestor.

Eliza Taylor was the daughter of James Taylor and Ann nee Allen. I have found the James/Ann household on most censuses and most children were born in Rockhampton but the family ended up in Tintern. I have Eliza Taylor with Eliza Ann Taylor as visitors in James and Ann's household in the 1871 census in Tintern, but couldn't find William anywhere. Then Eliza Ann is at school in 1881, but not found Eliza or William, then in 1891 is with Eliza Taylor, widow, farmer, at Kingshill Farm, Hinton, Berkeley.

For Eliza Ann Taylor, I have her marriage in 1891 to Arthur John Leonard, born 1864, Uley, son of John Samuel Leonard born abt 1831 in Hill, Glos, and he was son of Samuel Leonard born 1791 in Hill. Ada M Leonard was one of Arthur John Leonard's sisters so probably the bride of Tom Taylor. I have already found plenty of Leonard info since I have been working back from Mary Leonard born 1901 and have found out a lot.

The conclusion is - too many Taylors to sort this out! And the mystery of where William was for each census.

Thanks once again to all of you who have provided such interesting and useful information so quickly.

Tom TAYLOR born Alvington abt 1873

by Valx, Monday, April 29, 2019, 08:09 (27 days ago) @ Valx

I have only just discovered that you can open the whole message trail, so just seen Jeff's post - apologies I missed it before - and it seems you have found William. It looks like a good fit. Thankyou.

Tom TAYLOR born Alvington abt 1873

by Jefff @, West London, Middlesex, Monday, April 29, 2019, 14:58 (27 days ago) @ Valx

Apologies not necessary Valx but thanks anyway. I always view the threads on a PC and they display the whole trail as you've found, but suspect this may be different from those using more modern tablets and smartphones etc ?. If you have the right-hand sidebar opened all the time then it highlights the latest postings, so you can easily catchup on new additions to a thread. Eitherway no matter, you're not the first to get a little mixed up and won't be the last; I do and I've been using the forum for 10 years haha.

Re the William Taylor suggestion, it does look like him compared to the other suggestions put forward by FamilySearch, but please be reminded the names are not that unusual so tread carefully.

Hopefully you've also seen my post where I added a few Trade Directory references which include farmer Thomas Taylor of Court End.

Thanks for posting, and please don't forget to thoroughly search/browse all the other sections of the website, using the menubars across the top of the home page and so all the various extra sections from the drop-down menus, there's a huge amount of info on the site apart from the forum.

J

Tom TAYLOR born Alvington abt 1873

by Valx, Monday, April 29, 2019, 16:05 (27 days ago) @ Jefff

Yes Jeff a large pinch of salt with all the records as it's too easy to jump to conclusions unless you've seen the original doc's and even then it's easy to persuade yourself you've found the right person.

The only time I've been pretty sure is for unusual names, but as you say, common names like William, never mind John, Ann or Mary, are hard to narrow down.

Yes I did see those directory entries and hadn't spotted them when I posted my initial question. I will be exploring the resources more.

Just recently I've been trying to get family census info onto the lost cousins dot com website but as they only use 1841, 1881 and 1911 it's surprising how many slip through the net. Very inconsiderate of them to be born or die at the wrong times!

Tom TAYLOR born Alvington abt 1873

by MPGriffiths @, Monday, April 29, 2019, 17:28 (27 days ago) @ Valx

Baptisms at Tintern Parva, Monmouthshire

7 December 1887

Charles TAYLOR, parents: Joseph (occupation: Farmer) and Elizabeth
residence: Fair Oak, Chapel Hill


24 March 1888 & 24 March 1889 (born 29 Dec)

James TAYLOR, parents : Joseph (occupation: Farmer) and Elizabeth Mary
residence: Fairoak, Chapel Hill


1891 Census,
Civil Parish: Llandinabo
residence place: Hoarwithy, Llandinabo, Herefordshire, England

New Green Farm

TAYLOR

Joseph - aged 38 - Farmer - born Berkeley
Elizabeth - 30 - born Tidenham
Mary - 5 - Monmouth - Chapel Hill
Charles - 3 - ditto
James - 2 - ditto
Hannah - 3 mo born Herefordshire LLandinano ***
Louisa - 3 mo - born ditto ***


GRO INDEX

Anna & Louisa TAYLOR, March Qtr, Ross District, Mother's maiden name : PRICE


---

Joseph TAYLOR, christened at Berkeley - 29 September 1852, parents James (Farmer) and Ann - residence: Brookend

Tom TAYLOR born Alvington abt 1873

by Valx, Tuesday, April 30, 2019, 14:10 (26 days ago) @ MPGriffiths

The family broadens!

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