Joseph Davis Marriage to Elizabeth Davis (Parish Records)

by Swadbrummie, Friday, February 28, 2020, 17:10 (37 days ago)

Newbie, great site after 10 years of searching. Have found
on your site birth of son and baptism of their son Peter.
Baptised 1777,Nov 30th, Much Marcle ref 356774.Would appreciate
any help finding the marriage of the above. Also if Joseph Davis
was born in same parish or Hersfodshire. I have tried but no luck. Reg AG56/4 reference for baptism of Peter Davis.
Many thanks for any help, wish I had found you earlier.
Regards, Keith Davis.

Joseph Davis Marriage to Elizabeth ????, of Much Marcle

by Jefff @, West London, Middlesex, Saturday, February 29, 2020, 01:47 (36 days ago) @ Swadbrummie

Hi Keith, and a warm welcome to the site and forum.

First step is to search this forum for old posts about your Davi(e)s family in Much Marcle, but no luck so far.

Next, if you search the Parish Records for all Marriages for Joseph Davies/Davis, you'll see this is quite a rare name locally with only 64, and that's with the Soundex box ticked to include spelling variants. Of these only one is at Much Marcle St Bartholomews church, and looks a good fit. Of course they may have married in a different parish, but far less likely in those days compared to now.


Record_ID: 139753
Entry_Number: 48
Year: 1761
Month: Nov
Day: 26
Grooms_Surname: DAVIES
Grooms_Forenames: Joseph
Grooms_Age:
Groom_Condition:
Grooms_Occupation:
Grooms_Residence:
Grooms_Fathers_Surname:
Grooms_Fathers_Forenames:
Grooms_Fathers_Occupation:
Brides_Surname: MAYOE
Brides_Forenames: Elizabeth
Brides_Age:
Brides_Condition:
Brides_Occupation:
Brides_Residence:
Brides_Fathers_Surname:
Brides_Fathers_Forenames:
Brides_Fathers_Occupation:
Licence_or_Banns: Banns
Date_of_Banns: 1761 Oct 25 Nov 1 Nov 8
Signature_or_Mark: Both mark
Witness_1: Sam[ue]ll Price
Witness_2: Rich[ar]d Peters
Other_Witnesses:
Officiating_Minister: Tho[mas] Harc[our]t Gwillym
Event: Marriage
Memoranda:
Notes:
Register_Reference: AG56/8
Page_Number:
Parish_Chapel: Much Marcle
Soundex_Groom: D120
Soundex_Bride: M000


https://forest-of-dean.net/joomla/index.php/parish-records-search

If you now search the PRs for baptisms at Much Marcle, leaving the child's name as blank but just entering father's name as Joseph Davies, you'll see they appear to have had a largish family, including Peter you already found. A little more detail is available within each individual PR if you search them out, but in short we find;

Year Surname First Name Fathers Forename Mothers Forename Event Parish/Chapel More detail
1762 DAVIS Elizabeth Joseph Elizabeth Baptism Much Marcle
1764 DAVIS Joseph Joseph Elizabeth Baptism Much Marcle
1766 DAVIS George Joseph Elizabeth Baptism Much Marcle
1770 DAVIS William Joseph Elizabeth Baptism Much Marcle
1773 DAVIS Mary Joseph Elizabeth Baptism Much Marcle
1775 DAVIS John Joseph Elizabeth Baptism Much Marcle
1777 DAVIS Peter Joseph Elizabeth Baptism Much Marcle

Now we have the problem of trying to find baptism for Elizabeth Mayo, especially as it's a tricky name to spell so again tick the Soundex box (this isn't foolproof but is a good start). Searching the PRs gives 26 records in Marcle church alone, dating from 1562 to 1763, but very few in our expected date period. These records include Mayo, Mayoe and Mayowe spelling variations. I suggest you find these yourself and try to decide who, if anyone, fits best.

????

---

Now searching for possible birth date for Joseph, again if we assume he stayed in Marcle all his life, a risky assumption but not unlikely, then purely on the basis of the available PR evidence this looks like his burial. However sadly no age is given so it's not as helpful as I'd hoped;

Record_ID: 243057
Entry_Number:
Year: 1793
Month: May
Day: 20
Surname: DAVIS
Forenames: Joseph
Residence: Yatton
Age_at_death:
Officiating_Minister:
Event: Burial
Cause_of_death:
Memoranda:
Notes:
Register_Reference: AG56/5
Page_No:
Parish_Chapel: Much Marcle
Soundex: D120


It's possible this is his Baptism record, it fits his marriage record wrt age. Here we see he's "base-born" aka illegitimate. It's possible he was named after his father but we don't know for sure yet;

Record_ID: 355889
Entry_Number:
Year: 1738
Month: Jan
Day: 18
Parents_Surname: DAVIS
Child_Forenames: Joseph
Fathers_Forenames: not stated
Mothers_Forenames: Mary
Mothers_Surname:
Residence:
Occupation:
Officiating_Minister:
Event: Baptism
Memoranda: Base son
Notes: Old style date 1737/8
Register_Reference: AG56/4
Page_Number:
Parish_Chapel: Much Marcle
Soundex: D120

Again the PRs show a fair number of Mary Davis' in Marcle at this time, so again not easy to trace her further.


Hope this helps as a starter, and thanks for visiting !

Joseph Davis Marriage to Elizabeth ????, of Much Marcle

by Swadbrummie, Saturday, February 29, 2020, 10:23 (36 days ago) @ Jefff

Hi Jeff, and amazing information. I cannot thank you enough for all the time you have put into doing my family descendents. I had given in at 1804, gt gt grandfather, William Davis, Baptised Sollers Hope. Luckily was given a number of a distant relative, who's 88, done my mom's side for 20 yrs. 6000 on his tree all over the world. He's struggling now with health, wished I'd known about him earlier. He had found William had brothers Peter and John, both born in Herefordshire, Bromyard. Found their parents Peter and Elizabeth Mary. I only looked a few days all the info he had done, he said search engine, roots?
Says Peter bwas born 1773 at Ochle Pychard but Baptised as we know 1777, Much Marcle. Also states he was also known as Peter Davies. That's as far as he got, but with your great research Joseph Davis fits in, brilliant. Peter jnr moved to London and died there. You experts are way passed my level. Just looking at the site, think I can copy and paste what I've got Jeff? Won't bombard you with info, very grateful for your time and help, regards, Keith

Joseph Davis Marriage to Elizabeth ????, of Much Marcle

by Jefff @, West London, Middlesex, Saturday, February 29, 2020, 23:16 (35 days ago) @ Swadbrummie

Hi Keith,
and thanks for your kind words, it didnt take too long and I'm certainly no expert, you could have done the same with time and practice.

Please don't jump to the conclusion that everything I've found is definitely your line of ancestors:

Regarding your elderly relative's work, yes we often say how we wished we'd met people earlier, or asked questions of family members questions before it was too late, a shame but there it it. You say he used "search engine and roots", I thinks that refers to the old Rootsweb mailing lists that have been around for many years, but now largely superceded by the internet. Did he ever put his trees online, perhaps on one of the big subscription websites like Ancestry or FindMyPast ?. One advantage of those is some people share their researches, making their trees "public" so others can see and benefit.
Tracing trees pre 1800 is difficult as there were no national censuses until 1841 which recorded family groups, so before that as here we rely heavily on written family histories derived from family diaries, Bibles and such like, which public trees might benefit from. Other than that there's a fair degree of "educated" guesswork, as with my post yesterday, relying heavily on common surnames and places. This FoD FHT website is intended to cover just the Forest of Dean Glostershire, not Herefordshire as a county. Yes this site's database does include Much Marcle, Kempley etc, which is really useful, however it doesn't cover areas deeper into Herefordshire including places you mention your ancestors lived in, eg Bromyard to the west. And of course west is Wales, so we can expect an awful lot of families of the Davis/Davies surname, and as you know folk back then wern't overly original when it came to choosing first names, so it can get very confusing sorting thro all the numerous Williams, Elizabeths, Marys etc etc. So, in short, not an easy tree to be sure about pre 1800, much like my own Jones one which I had to give-up haha.

It's great that you've given us more background and names, but I'm now worried we may have the wrong family... first you mention William Davis born Sollers Hope in 1804. Do you have any idea what his parent's or his descendants did for a living ?. Any sign they were itinerant workers, maybe journeymen travellers, hawkers or gypsies, asking as they seem to have moved around a bit ??.

I don't currently have a subscription for any of the aforementioned big websites, instead I use FamilySearch which is very good indeed for a free resource, are you familiar with it ? Only last year they added over 600,000 Hfds records to their database.

I hope this link works for you, best opened in a separate window or tab.
I've asked for all records for William Davies born Sollers Hope, Herefordshire between 1800-1806, parents Peter and Elizabeth Mary. Hopefully you can see it gives several hits, showing just how common a name this was in the area.
https://www.familysearch.org/search/record/results?givenname=william&surname=davies...

None of these hits fit your information precisely, none mention Sollers Hope that I can see. The only record that mentions father Peter is this one, but exactly where is it ??.

England, Herefordshire Bishop's Transcripts, 1583-1898
Name: William Davis
Event Type: Baptism
Event Date: 26 Feb 1804
Event Place: Herefordshire, England, United Kingdom
Gender: Male
Father's Name: Peter Davis
Mother's Name: Elizabeth Davis


Moving on, you mention Ocle Pychard. Wow what a great name, I thought I knew the area but that's a new one on me. I see that again it's a few miles north of "our" area. I wonder if this explains why Peter was baptised quite late in life - that's of course assuming your 1773 birth record and my 1777 baptism record are both the same person ?.
I asked about his parents' background as if they were of fixed abode, maybe your typical agricultural workers on a farm, then I'd have guessed they were probably regular local church-goers and so he would have been baptised within a few weeks of being born ??. I think this was the norm in those days, altho happy to be proven wrong, I'm no expert on this ???
Of course they may have delayed for all sorts of good reasons, perhaps because they were not yet married, or whatever.

To get to know an area from a historical viewpoint I like to use the Genuki site.
https://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/HEF/MuchMarcle

This helps me find that altho there are quite a few C of E churches in our likely search area, Yatton & Little Marcle wern't built until after Peter and William's baptisms. However those at Sollers Hope, Brockhampton, Much Marcle, Preston, Kempley etc are all much older suggesting substantial local populations in those days, and making it clear that the FoD Parish Registers database does not cover all the area that maybe we should be looking at. This map shows the Parishes it does cover.
https://forest-of-dean.net/joomla/index.php/the-forest-of-dean/forest-of-dean-parish-map

Ten years on this forum reminds me we are SO very fortunate having this excellent FoD resource, as good as any in the UK in my opinion. It also reminds me that similar records from deeper into Herefordshire are much less readily available online, altho I gather that situation is improving in the last year or so.
It might be Keith that you need to try one of the subscription sites, just in case they have better matches than we or FamilySearch has ?
Sadly I don't think Ancestry has much for Hfds, a shame as that site can be accessed free of charge at UK public libraries. However FindMyPast does have some records, it maybe worth taking out a free trial with them, or perhaps other members of this forum who are already subscribed can please help ?. It appears they've just "improved" their website, meaning I'm struggling to make sense of it haha, hope you have better luck
eg https://www.findmypast.co.uk/articles/world-records/full-list-of-united-kingdom-records...

Alternatively a visit to the new Hereford Archives may be worthwhile ??
https://www.herefordshire.gov.uk/info/200164/herefordshire_archive_and_records_centre/9...

All for now, I'll have a go at the FamilySearch site later.
J

Joseph Davis Marriage to Elizabeth ????, of Much Marcle

by Swadbrummie, Monday, March 02, 2020, 10:46 (34 days ago) @ Jefff

Hi Jeff, thank you for getting back to me and all the info, appreciated. Strangely the distant relative who's helped me is also a Jones, he had same problem with his surname. He is linked to my mother's side, and I didn't need to do any research that side. He had done 20 odd yrs research and The tree is on Ancestry. He is lucky and can afford worldwide membership, I cannot. Like you free trials and free family search which is brilliant. I did get a copy of William Davis baptism, which was 1804 and Sollers Hope. I know he wasn't born there, I think Burley Gate again Herefordshire. He was a Blacksmith so maybe his dad was? He died in Evesham 1877, have visited his gravestone. Passed away in The Royal Oak, Evesham. I didn't realise until latter that his son was landlord. William married Sarah Ryland in Bengeworth, Evesham. I'm trying to work out Jeff how I can copy and paste with the early information he collated for me. Might make things a little easier for you and anyone else who can help?
I'm sure he had put The Davis tree on Ancestry for me and maybe family search. I will try and look and find out. I certainly think Peter was Williams father and I think your correct with Joseph. Especially with his baptism in 1777 at Much Marcle. You have then dug out the rest of the family which is great. I just don't know how to copy info on to here Jeff. Thank you for your ongoing help and research, regards, Keith.

Joseph Davis Marriage to Elizabeth ????, of Much Marcle

by shepway @, Monday, March 02, 2020, 11:43 (34 days ago) @ Swadbrummie

This Tree on Ancestry may be of help: Bob Jones' Tree

Mike

Joseph Davis Marriage to Elizabeth ????, of Much Marcle

by Swadbrummie, Monday, March 02, 2020, 11:59 (34 days ago) @ shepway

Mike, thanks so much, brilliant help. I knew Bob had put it on there but atm no subscription. Need a free trial somehow. So he's put The Davis tree which is mine plus his tree which would be Leech. Also mmy late mom's, Maddock? He's 88 and was only given his number 18 months ago. Clever guy, been in hospital for 6 weeks with pneumonia then he broke his leg in there. Back home now, have kept in touch with him. Helped me Alot, I know he's itching to get back to his tree. Really kind of you Mike, Jeff's been a big help. Still some decent folk about. So if I go on ancestry, it's under Bob Jones tree not Davis? I havnt bothered him regarding ancestry he's got enough to cope with. I carnt find a way to put details on here. Need son in law to maybe show me. I can see there's an image and flash. I could hopefully get on ancestry and get the tree and copy it or print it. Think what Jeff's found is spot on just needed more info. I got stuck at William Davis 1804 for three yrs. Thanks again, Keith Davis.

Joseph Davis Marriage to Elizabeth ????, of Much Marcle

by Swadbrummie, Monday, March 02, 2020, 12:20 (34 days ago) @ shepway

Hi Mike, I've managed to get on ancestry. Still do not know how to get onto Bob Jones site well for Davis tree. I thought his tree was private, you must have managed to see The Davis tree which must be public? Can you help please, Much appreciated, Keith. His tree was private, I know a cousin of mine objected to some info on Ancestry. Bob being Bob took it off. He didn't need too and we're not breaking any laws. Families, you carnt choose them, but it was pathetic. Thanks Mike, regards, Keith.

Joseph Davis Marriage to Elizabeth ????, of Much Marcle

by Swadbrummie, Monday, March 02, 2020, 14:38 (34 days ago) @ shepway

Apologies Mike, can view your link. Many thanks, Keith.

Joseph Davis Marriage to Elizabeth ????, of Much Marcle

by Swadbrummie, Monday, March 02, 2020, 11:48 (34 days ago) @ Swadbrummie

Hi Jeff, have been on family search, have found what my Bob Jones has put on there. William Davis Born 1804, Burley Gate, Herefordshire. Wife, Sarah Ryland. Parents, Peter Davis and Elizabeth Preece. Click on Peter Davis, brings up sources and confirms 1777 Nov 30th confirms Joseph and Elizabeth as parents. So that's the first time I've managed to see that or find that info thanks to Bob and yourself.Your much better than me at using or how to use indexes etc. I lose my patience after so long. I'm pretty sure we have the correct info. A big find, tying in Peters Siblings and Joseph. Looks like they were from Much Marcle. Gap in his birth and baptism, but not uncommon. Regards, Keith. P. S. So Bob has put info on Family Search.

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