Ben Hale born May 11, 1875

I have found out about the existence of Ben Hale who was son of Elizabeth (nee Fox)(born 1852 year of death not known) and whose father was Moses Hale. Moses died when Ben was about 3 years old (March 1878). He was therefore half brother to Elizabeth's other children born to her after she married Joseph Rook (1857-1942)(marriage was in 1880). Ben possibly married Phoebe [Jones?] in 1899 but I can find little record of him. Can anyone shed light on him?
His half siblings were all with surname Rook(e):
Ann[ie] Elizabeth (Dec 1880),
Theresa(Feb 1883),(I might have a photograph of her "Cousin Teresa" but there are several other Cousins Teresa who it could be!!!)
Joseph (Feb 1885),
Isaiah (another mystery person about whom I have found little though he could also have been referred to as Isaac! Someone with a similar name married in Yorkshire a Miss Farrell and I would like to know if he's the same person.( A coal miner like this Isaiah and who died in 1935) He was in Coleford in 1919 at his brother Joseph's wedding as he was a witness to it),(Born March 1886)
Paul (he married and they had one son who is buried with them),(Oct 1888)
Charles,(Nov 1891?)
Sydney George (Nov 1891?)
and Thomas.(Nov 1891?)
The latter were either all born in the same year (triplets) or just baptised together, both Charles and Sydney George share a grave and both died in infancy. Thomas could have died in Devon. I am interested in whether these were a multiple birth because I am particularly interested in seeing the incidence of twins etc across each branch of my family (due to a high incidence but not in the Rook branch of it).

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Year: 1875
Month: Jun
Day: 13
Parents_Surname: HALE
Child_Forenames: Ben
Fathers_Forenames: Moses
Mothers_Forenames: Elizabeth
Mothers_Surname:
Residence: Lane End Near Coleford
Occupation: Collier
Officiating_Minister: Thomas Holbrow BA PC
Event: Baptism
Memoranda: Born May 11
Notes:
Register_Reference: P93 IN I/6
Page_Number: 92
Parish_Chapel: Coleford

1881
Elizabeth Rook abt 1853 West Dean, Gloucestershire, England Wife West Dean, Gloucestershire
Joseph Rook abt 1857 West Dean, Gloucestershire, England Head West Dean, Gloucestershire
Annie Rook West Dean, Gloucestershire, England Daughter West Dean, Gloucestershire
Ben Hale abt 1875 West Dean, Gloucestershire, England Son West Dean, Gloucestershire

1891
Hannah Rook abt 1830 Franifton, Gloucestershire, England Mother Newland, Gloucestershire
Elizabeth Rook abt 1853 West Dean, Gloucestershire, England Wife Newland, Gloucestershire
Joseph Rook abt 1857 West Dean, Gloucestershire, England Head Newland, Gloucestershire
Annie Elizabeth Rook abt 1881 West Dean, Gloucestershire, England Daughter Newland, Gloucestershire
Theresa Rook abt 1883 West Dean, Gloucestershire, England Daughter Newland, Gloucestershire
Joseph Rook abt 1885 West Dean, Gloucestershire, England Son Newland, Gloucestershire
Isara Rook abt 1886 West Dean, Gloucestershire, England Son Newland, Gloucestershire
Paul Rook abt 1889 West Dean, Gloucestershire, England Son Newland, Gloucestershire
Benjamin Hale Elizabeth abt 1876 West Dean, Gloucestershire, England Stepson Newland, Gloucestershire

Name: Ben Hale
Name: Phoebe Lavinia Morse
Year of Registration: 1899
Quarter of Registration: Oct-Nov-Dec
District: Monmouth (1837-1939)
County: Gloucestershire, Herefordshire, Monmouthshire
Volume: 11a
Page: 79

1901
Ben Hale abt 1875 West Dean, Gloucestershire, England Head West Dean, Monmouthshire
Phoebe Hale abt 1878 West Dean, Gloucestershire, England Wife West Dean, Monmouthshire
Kate Hale abt 1901 West Dean, Gloucestershire, England Daughter West Dean, Monmouthshire

1911
HALE BEN M 1875 36 Monmouth Monmouthshire
HALE PHOEBE F 1879 32 Monmouth Monmouthshire
HALE ANNIE F 1908 3 Monmouth Monmouthshire
HALE CISSIE F 1903 8 Monmouth Monmouthshire
HALE ELSIE F 1901 10 Monmouth Monmouthshire
HALE GERTIE F 1911 2 MONTHS Monmouth Monmouthshire
HALE JACK M 1909 2 Monmouth Monmouthshire
HALE LIZZY F 1904 7 Monmouth Monmouthshire

Name: Benjamin Hale
Death Registration Month/Year: 1953
Age at death (estimated): 76
Registration district: Forest of Dean
Inferred County: Gloucestershire
Volume: 7b
Page: 541

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Ἀριστοτέλης A Gloster & Hereford Boy in the Forest of Dean ><((((*>

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Thank you for this, again you've clarified a big puzzle and given me a wider picture than I had. I don't know where I got Jones from for Phoebe!!! (Unless of course she had been married before she married him). However do you think Elsie and Kate are one and the same person or could Kate have been born in 1900 or early 1901 and Elsie at the end of that year? I am wondering that if they were different people then perhaps Kate died before she was 10?

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transcription of alice as elsie - could be possible

Year 1901
Month Mar
Day 27
Parents Surname HALE
Child Forenames Alice Kate
Fathers Forenames Ben
Mothers Forenames Phoebe
Mothers Surname
Residence Broadwell Lane End
Occupation Collier
Officiating Minister E H Brice
Event Baptism
Memoranda
Notes
Register Reference P93 IN 1/7
Page Number 97
Parish Chapel Coleford

--
Ἀριστοτέλης A Gloster & Hereford Boy in the Forest of Dean ><((((*>

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Name: Phoebe Lavinia Morse
Year of Registration: 1879
Quarter of Registration: Apr-May-Jun
District: Monmouth (1837-1939)
County: Gloucestershire, Herefordshire, Monmouthshire
Volume: 11a
Page: 29

1881
Fred Archer Morse abt 1849 West Dean, Gloucestershire, England Head West Dean, Gloucestershire
Ann Archer Morse abt 1853 West Dean, Gloucestershire, England Wife West Dean, Gloucestershire
Thomas A. Morse abt 1873 West Dean, Gloucestershire, England Son West Dean, Gloucestershire
Jas. or Tas. Archer Morse abt 1875 West Dean, Gloucestershire, England Son West Dean, Gloucestershire
Sara Emily Morse abt 1877 West Dean, Gloucestershire, England Daughter West Dean, Gloucestershire
Phaez P. Lavina Morse abt 1879 West Dean, Gloucestershire, England Daughter West Dean, Gloucestershire

1891
Fred A Morse abt 1849 West Dean, Gloucestershire, England Head West Dean, Gloucestershire
Am A Morse abt 1852 West Dean, Gloucestershire, England Wife West Dean, Gloucestershire
Thomas Morse abt 1873 West Dean, Gloucestershire, England Son West Dean, Gloucestershire
Fred Morse abt 1875 West Dean, Gloucestershire, England Son West Dean, Gloucestershire
Sarah Morse abt 1877 West Dean, Gloucestershire, England Daughter West Dean, Gloucestershire
John P Morse abt 1882 West Dean, Gloucestershire, England Son West Dean, Gloucestershire
Minney Morse abt 1883 West Dean, Gloucestershire, England Daughter West Dean, Gloucestershire
Lily B Morse abt 1885 West Dean, Gloucestershire, England Daughter West Dean, Gloucestershire
Dora Morse abt 1887 West Dean, Gloucestershire, England Daughter West Dean, Gloucestershire
George Morse abt 1889 West Dean, Gloucestershire, England Son West Dean, Gloucestershire

Name: Phoebe L Hale
Death Registration Month/Year: 1929
Age at death (estimated): 50
Registration district: Monmouth
Inferred County: Monmouthshire
Volume: 11a
Page: 22

--
Ἀριστοτέλης A Gloster & Hereford Boy in the Forest of Dean ><((((*>

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Thank you again Slowhands, I wish people I have to deal with through the course of my work were as efficient as you!

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"Hubert Teague, collier of Bream was ordered to contribute two shillings per week towards the cost of the maintenance of the illegitimate child of Phoebe Morse."

Has anyone any details of this couple and who the illegitimate child was?

ADMIN moved here to Phoebe Morse thread

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"Hubert Teague, collier of Bream was ordered to contribute two shillings per week towards the cost of the maintenance of the illegitimate child of Phoebe Morse."

Has anyone any details of this couple and who the illegitimate child was?

Hubert Teague son of George,
Emma J abt 1877 Bream, Gloucestershire, England Son West Dean, Gloucestershire

maybe not Hubert 1874
http://www.forum.forest-of-dean.net/index.php?id=26760

Year: 1874
Month: May
Day: 13
Parents_Surname: TEAGUE
Child_Forenames: Hubert
Fathers_Forenames: [not stated]
Mothers_Forenames: Sarah
Mothers_Surname:
Residence: Bream
Occupation: [not stated]
Officiating_Minister: J F Gosling
Event: Baptism
Memoranda: Sponsers Thomas Vaughan Richd Beach Elizabeth Beach
Notes:
Register_Reference: P57 IN 1/4
Page_Number: 18
Parish_Chapel: Bream

--
Ἀριστοτέλης A Gloster & Hereford Boy in the Forest of Dean ><((((*>

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I have several people called Thomas Vaughn/Vaughan on the family tree which links with Ben Hale's link to my family so it could be that one of these was the sponsor you have found.

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There is a registration for an Olive Morse 1898 this might be the child in question.

Hubert Teague born 1874 son of Sarah Teague died 1945 in Coleford {not 1892} ADMIN error in original thread amended
so a likely candidate, he married as Slowhands ponted out a marriage for 1900 to a Mary Ann Thomas he also married again to a widow Gwen Price / Hill in 1913.

The other Hubert born 1876 married in 1898 to Ada Dowle. So could be either

The Henry death in question was for Hubert brother registered as Edwin Henry & bapt as Henry George Richards Teague, same mother different fathers.

Gill

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I think now that the Phoebe Morse referred to in the newspaper article could be Phoebe Lavinia Morse daughter of Frederick Archer Morse and Ann Price. She was born in 1879 so would have been about the right age. She married Ben Hale in 1899 and the first child of this marriage was Kate Hale born 1900. There is no mention of a child born around 1898 but I suppose the child in question could have died.

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Further to my last post I think you are right about Olive Morse being the child in question. What confused me was that I had Olive as the child of Lily Blanche Morse (daughter of Frederick Archer Morse). I now realise that her mother is most likely to have been Phoebe Lavinia, Lily's sister, who married Edwin Stanley Morgan in 1921 at Parkend and her father is stated as "Frederick Morse" which was probably her grandfather. As Olive appeared in the census at the home of her grandparents Frederick Archer Morse for some reason I assumed she was Lily's daughter. Thanks for your help.

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Ben Hale was the son of Moses and Elizabeth Hale. They had two other sons, Tom born 1873, died 1874 and Moses born abt 1877, died 1879.
Elizabeth Hale(nee Fox) was the daughter of George Fox (1813-1883) and Caroline Phipps (1826-1878)
Phoebe Lavinia Morse was the daughter of Frederick Archer Morse (1848-1934) and Ann Price (1852-1915)
Free BMD has Frederick's birth recorded as Frederick Morse Archer and he was recorded as that for his marriage to Ann Price. He is listed as Frederick Morse in the censuses.
I had both Ben Hale and Phoebe Morse in my tree but didn't know that they married until you started this thread!

Regards
Anne

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I had either Caroline or Hannah as Elizabeth Fox's mother and wasn't sure which was the right one. I'm happy if my thread has helped you to connect two sides of your family.
I think though I seem to remember you responding to another posting of mine in relation to some direct relatives of mine but can't remember which, I've done so many postings on here.
Thanks also for the information on Ben's two brothers and for Ann Price's surname which I did not have. Though these are not direct relatives of mine it is nice to know that I am connecting up the right people.
With regards to Fred Archer Morse's family - I had noticed Archer Morse is listed as some of Fred and Ann's children's surnames too. Perhaps Frederick's mother was Archer or perhaps it was a surname which went back further? There are eight siblings for Phoebe (I,m not sure without looking back whether I've found some more in addition to those which Slowhands found, I don't thinks so but just in case here they are again!). Phoebe is referred to as: Phoebe P Lavina Morse in one record, her siblings are:
Thomas A Morse (Perhaps the A stands for Archer?),about 1873,
Jas. Tas or Fred Archer Morse 1875 (one census lists someone as Jas or Tas and the next as Fred for that birth year),
Sarah Emily Morse (1877),
John P Morse (1882),
Minnie Morse (1883),
Lily B Morse(1885),
Dora Morse (1887),
George Morse(1889).

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I have a couple more siblings for Phoebe:
Thomas Morse 1873
Frederick James Morse 1874
Sarah Emily Morse 1877
Phoebe Lavinia Morse 1879
John Phipps Morse 1881
Minnie Maria Morse 1882
Lily Blanche Morse 1885
Dora Matilda Morse 1887
George Albert Morse 1889
Riley Edmund Morse 1891
Annie Price Morse 1893

Frederick Archer Morse (b. 1848) was the son of Frederick Morse (b. 1828) and Elizabeth Archer. They never married. Frederick Archer Morse lived with his grandparents John and Damaris Morse.

Frederick Morse (1828) married Matilda Phipps 11 Nov 1855. Matilda (b. 1835) was the youngest of 9 Phipps siblings. Of these, Caroline (b. 1826) was mother to Elizabeth Fox who married Moses Hale and Joseph Rooke and Sarah (b. 1821) was mother to Ann Price who married Frederick Archer Morse.

Forest of Dean FHT Forum

Ben Hale born May 11, 1875 (General)

Ben HALE 1875 - 1953

Ben HALE 1875 - 1953

Alice Kate HALE 1901

Phoebe Lavinia MORSE 1879 - 1929 Yorkley

Phoebe Lavinia MORSE 1879 - 1929 Yorkley

Gloucester Citizen 24 August 1898

Hubert TEAGUE 1877 Bream

Hubert TEAGUE 1877 Bream

Gloucester Citizen 24 August 1898

Gloucester Citizen 24 August 1898

Gloucester Citizen 24 August 1898