GWYNN and MATHEWS families Lane End Coleford

Have tracked my family back to Forest of Dean when Elizabeth Gwynn married John Mathews 1826, they lived Lane End Coleford, on the 1841 census they had children, Ann, Elizabeth, Alice, Mary. John employment Stone Cutter, 1846 they had another daughter Hannah who married Thomas Bellis, in Stoke-upon-Trent, my great grandparents.
Wonder If any of the families Gwynn and Mathews still live in the lovely Forest Dean area and would anyone know why Hannah would have been living in Stoke

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Hi Paty, welcome to the forum.
According to this site's PRs some of your dates are slightly wrong (it doesn't help there was another John Matthews "Master of the Coleford National School" starting his family at same time, wife Sarah.)

Record_ID: 36236
Entry_Number: 614
Year: 1828
Month: Jun
Day: 21
Grooms_Surname: MATHEWS
Grooms_Forenames: John
Grooms_Age:
Groom_Condition: Bachelor
Grooms_Occupation:
Grooms_Residence: Newland
Grooms_Fathers_Surname:
Grooms_Fathers_Forenames:
Grooms_Fathers_Occupation:
Brides_Surname: GWYNN
Brides_Forenames: Elizabeth
Brides_Age:
Brides_Condition: Spinster
Brides_Occupation:
Brides_Residence: Newland
Brides_Fathers_Surname:
Brides_Fathers_Forenames:
Brides_Fathers_Occupation:
Licence_or_Banns: Banns
Date_of_Banns:
Signature_or_Mark: He signs she marks
Witness_1: Mark of Thomas Wright
Witness_2: Ann Gwynn
Other_Witnesses:
Officiating_Minister: Walter Henry Hill Officiating Minister
Event: Marriage
Memoranda:
Notes:
Register_Reference: P227 IN 1/11
Page_Number: 205
Parish_Chapel: Newland
Soundex_Groom: M320
Soundex_Bride: G500

Record_ID: 9097
Entry_Number: 942
Year: 1829
Month: Jul
Day: 22
Parents_Surname: MATTHEWS
Child_Forenames: Thomas
Fathers_Forenames: John
Mothers_Forenames: Elizabeth
Mothers_Surname:
Residence: Broadwell
Occupation: Stonecutter
Officiating_Minister: M Dixon Curate
Event: Baptism
Memoranda:
Notes:
Register_Reference: P93 IN 1/4
Page_Number: 82
Parish_Chapel: Coleford
Soundex: M320

(POSSIBLY ?)
Record_ID: 16101
Entry_Number: 1921
Year: 1833
Month: Jan
Day: 18
Surname: MATTHEWS
Forenames: Thomas
Residence: Lane End Coleford Extraparochial
Age_at_death: 3 years
Officiating_Minister: J.A.Harrison Curate
Event: Burial
Cause_of_death:
Memoranda:
Notes:
Register_Reference: from 1813
Page_No: 50
Parish_Chapel: English Bicknor
Soundex: M320

Record_ID: 9164
Entry_Number: 1009
Year: 1832
Month: Jan
Day: 29
Parents_Surname: MATTHEWS
Child_Forenames: Anne
Fathers_Forenames: John
Mothers_Forenames: Elizabeth
Mothers_Surname:
Residence: Coalway Lane End
Occupation: Coalminer
Officiating_Minister: By me Jno (sic) Mountford M.A. Licensed Curate
Event: Baptism
Memoranda: Sunday
Notes:
Register_Reference: P93 IN 1/4
Page_Number: 90
Parish_Chapel: Coleford
Soundex: M320

Record_ID: 9284
Entry_Number: 1129
Year: 1834
Month: Dec
Day: 10
Parents_Surname: MATTHEWS
Child_Forenames: Elizabeth
Fathers_Forenames: John
Mothers_Forenames: Elizabeth
Mothers_Surname:
Residence: Forest of Dean
Occupation: Quarryman
Officiating_Minister: George Roberts BA Perpet: Curate
Event: Baptism
Memoranda:
Notes:
Register_Reference: P93 IN 1/5
Page_Number: 3
Parish_Chapel: Coleford
Soundex: M320

(POSSIBLY)
Record_ID: 2330
Entry_Number: 105
Year: 1855
Month: Feb
Day: 4
Grooms_Surname: JONES
Grooms_Forenames: Benjamin
Grooms_Age: full
Groom_Condition: Bachelor
Grooms_Occupation: Collier
Grooms_Residence: West Dean
Grooms_Fathers_Surname: Jones
Grooms_Fathers_Forenames: John
Grooms_Fathers_Occupation: Collier
Brides_Surname: MATTHEWS
Brides_Forenames: Elizabeth
Brides_Age: full
Brides_Condition: Spinster
Brides_Occupation: [not stated]
Brides_Residence: Parish of Newland
Brides_Fathers_Surname: Matthews
Brides_Fathers_Forenames: John
Brides_Fathers_Occupation: Stone Cutter
Licence_or_Banns: Banns
Date_of_Banns:
Signature_or_Mark: Both sign
Witness_1: Mark of William Roberts
Witness_2: Mary Roberts
Other_Witnesses: None
Officiating_Minister: W. H. Taylor
Event: Marriage
Memoranda: -
Notes: -
Register_Reference: PFC82 IN 1/7
Page_Number: 53
Parish_Chapel: Christchurch
Soundex_Groom: J520
Soundex_Bride: M320

Record_ID: 9450
Entry_Number: 1295
Year: 1837
Month: May
Day: 31
Parents_Surname: MATTHEWS
Child_Forenames: Mary
Fathers_Forenames: John
Mothers_Forenames: Betty
Mothers_Surname:
Residence: Lane End
Occupation: Coal Miner
Officiating_Minister: George Roberts BA Perpet: Curate
Event: Baptism
Memoranda:
Notes:
Register_Reference: P93 IN 1/5
Page_Number: 24
Parish_Chapel: Coleford
Soundex: M320

Record_ID: 9619
Entry_Number: 1464
Year: 1840
Month: Sep
Day: 13
Parents_Surname: MATTHEWS
Child_Forenames: Alice
Fathers_Forenames: John
Mothers_Forenames: Elizabeth
Mothers_Surname:
Residence: Coleford
Occupation: Quarryman
Officiating_Minister: Edwd Hawkins Perpetual Curate
Event: Baptism
Memoranda:
Notes:
Register_Reference: P 93 IN 1/5
Page_Number: 47
Parish_Chapel: Coleford
Soundex: M320

(POSSIBLY)
Record_ID: 2398
Entry_Number: 173
Year: 1865
Month: May
Day: 28
Grooms_Surname: JONES
Grooms_Forenames: James
Grooms_Age: full
Groom_Condition: Bachelor
Grooms_Occupation: Stone-cutter
Grooms_Residence: West Dean
Grooms_Fathers_Surname: Jones
Grooms_Fathers_Forenames: John
Grooms_Fathers_Occupation: Laborer
Brides_Surname: MATTHEWS
Brides_Forenames: Alice
Brides_Age: full
Brides_Condition: Spinster
Brides_Occupation: [not stated]
Brides_Residence: Parish of Newland
Brides_Fathers_Surname: Matthews
Brides_Fathers_Forenames: John
Brides_Fathers_Occupation: Stone-cutter
Licence_or_Banns: [not stated]
Date_of_Banns:
Signature_or_Mark: Both sign
Witness_1: John Jones
Witness_2: Elizabeth Jones
Other_Witnesses: None
Officiating_Minister: W. H. Taylor
Event: Marriage
Memoranda: -
Notes: -
Register_Reference: PFC82 IN 1/7
Page_Number: 87
Parish_Chapel: Christchurch
Soundex_Groom: J520
Soundex_Bride: M320

Record_ID: 9782
Entry_Number: 1627
Year: 1844
Month: Feb
Day: 4
Parents_Surname: MATTHEWS
Child_Forenames: Lydia
Fathers_Forenames: John
Mothers_Forenames: Elizabeth
Mothers_Surname:
Residence: Lane End
Occupation: Stone-cutter
Officiating_Minister: J L Sisson DDPerpetual Curate Coleford
Event: Baptism
Memoranda:
Notes:
Register_Reference: P 93 IN 1/5
Page_Number: 67
Parish_Chapel: Coleford
Soundex: M320

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(CONTINUED);

(SADLY)
Record_ID: 30961
Entry_Number: 645
Year: 1855
Month: Aug
Day: 13
Surname: MATTHEWS
Forenames: Lydia
Residence: Lane End
Age_at_death: 12
Officiating_Minister: John Hawksley Curate
Event: Burial
Cause_of_death:
Memoranda: D[aughte]r of John & Elizabeth Matthews
Notes:
Register_Reference: P227 IN 1/27
Page_No: 81
Parish_Chapel: Newland
Soundex: M320

Record_ID: 150764
Entry_Number: 161
Year: 1849
Month: Mar
Day: 18
Parents_Surname: MATTHEWS
Child_Forenames: Hannah
Fathers_Forenames: John
Mothers_Forenames: Elizabeth
Mothers_Surname:
Residence: Lane End
Occupation: Stone Cutter
Officiating_Minister: J. Banks M.A. Perp[etual] Curate
Event: Baptism
Memoranda:
Notes:
Register_Reference: PFC82 IN 1/3
Page_Number: 21
Parish_Chapel: Christchurch
Soundex: M320

(NOT TO BE CONFUSED WITH)
Record_ID: 408422
Entry_Number:
Year: 1845
Month: Aug
Day: 15
Parents_Surname: MATTHEWS
Child_Forenames: Hannah Maria
Fathers_Forenames: James
Mothers_Forenames: Hannah
Mothers_Surname:
Residence: Langarran
Occupation: mason
Officiating_Minister:
Event: Baptism
Memoranda: received into the Church having been baptised 7 Jul 1845
Notes:
Register_Reference:
Page_Number:
Parish_Chapel: Monmouth
Soundex: M320

Hannah M married Octavius Ward in Monmouth 1866.

(NOR, off GlosBMD site)

Birth Details
Matthews Hannah 1847 Forest of Dean Monmouth, Coleford 5 73
It appears this Hannah subsequently married William Harris in Drybrook in 1876.

Back to "our" Hannah, I cannot find her marriage in local area. I've searched FreeBMD for both of them and cannot find a likely marriage anywhere.

Paty, please do you know more details/dates as to Hannah's marriage to Thomas ?. What do you know of Thomas's birthplace etc ?

You mentioned the 1841 Census.
Do you have 1861 Census details for them, perhaps this shows Hannah working in Stoke area ?

Looking on Latterday Saints for the 1841 and the 1851 Census,
vast majority of the Thomas Bellis' are from Mid/North Wales, not Stoke area at all. Moving to 1861 Census, I find;

England and Wales Census, 1861 for Thomas Bellis
Name: Thomas Bellis
Event: Census
Event Date: 1861
Gender: Male
Age: 7
Relationship to Head of Household: Son
Birthplace: Chepstow, Monmouthshire
Record Type: Household
Registration District: Chepstow
Sub-district: 2 Chepstow
Ecclesiastical Parish:
Civil Parish: Chepstow Monmouth
County: Monmouthshire

Back to FoDFH PRs, the ONLY Thomas Bellis Record on the site is also;

Record_ID: 205935
Entry_Number: 301
Year: 1854
Month: Mar
Day: 16
Parents_Surname: BELLIS
Child_Forenames: Thomas
Fathers_Forenames: Peter
Mothers_Forenames: Elizabeth
Mothers_Surname:
Residence: Bridge S[tree]t
Occupation: Boilermaker
Officiating_Minister:
Event: Baptism
Memoranda: s[on] o[f]
Notes: Any abbreviated forenames have been expanded to the full name
Register_Reference: 1851-1861
Page_Number:
Parish_Chapel: Chepstow
Soundex: B420

Could this be "our" Thomas ?.
He is the second of ELEVEN children to Peter & Elizabeth twixt 1853 and 1869. Peter & Elizabeth, and some of the children, are buried in Chepstow (see this site's PRs). Thomas no record... did he move away to find work, Staffs coalfields perhaps ?.

HOWEVER, looking at Latterday Saints for 1861 Census, sadly only seeing individuals not complete households, I see SEVERAL Thomas Bellis's of various ages in Staffs, including some born in Wales, one in Kent (migrant collier's son I suspect) etc.

Moving to 1881 same story, but thankfully shows households;

England and Wales Census, 1881 for Thomas Bellis
Name: Thomas Bellis
Age: 35
Gender: Male
Birth Year: 1846
Birthplace: Wales
Relationship to Head of Household: Head
Marital Condition: Married
Profession/Occupation: Coal Miner
Address: 37 Meadow St
Census Place: Stoke Upon Trent, Staffordshire, England
Disability:
Record Type: Household
Family History Library Film: 1341652
The National Archives Reference: RG11
Piece/Folio: 2720 / 57
Page Number: 48
Household Gender Age
Thomas Bellis M 35
Spouse Hannah Bellis F 35 (her separate Record shows born FoD!)
Child Thomas Bellis M 14
Child Jemima Bellis F 10
Child John Bellis M 9
Child Edwin Bellis M 6
Child William Bellis M 4
Child Peter Bellis M 0

(NOT TO MENTION THIS SOURCE OF CONFUSION, more Hannahs & Thomas's !)

England and Wales Census, 1881 for Hannah Bellis
Name: Hannah Bellis
Age: 50
Gender: Female
Birth Year: 1831
Birthplace: Stafford
Relationship to Head of Household: Head
Marital Condition: Widow
Profession/Occupation: Collier (Stone)
Address: New Building 7
Census Place: Wolstanton, Staffordshire, England
Disability:
Record Type: Household
Family History Library Film: 1341649
The National Archives Reference: RG11
Piece/Folio: 2708 / 25
Page Number: 44
Household Gender Age
Hannah Bellis F 50
Child Edward Bellis M 30
Child Thomas Bellis M 17
Child William Bellis M 13
Stephen Lanfort M 24

(NOTE! "stone" collier - Hannah's father John was a Stone Mason...)

And WORSE SOURCE OF CONFUSION PERHAPS;
Also from Latterday Site;

England and Wales Census, 1881 for Hannah Mathews
Name: Hannah Mathews
Age: 40
Gender: Female
Birth Year: 1841
Birthplace: Coleford, Gloucestershire, England
Relationship to Head of Household: Servant
Marital Condition: Single
Profession/Occupation: Upper Housemaid
Address: East Court
Census Place: Charlton Kings, Gloucestershire, England
Disability:
Record Type: Household
Family History Library Film: 1341619
The National Archives Reference: RG11
Piece/Folio: 2566 / 79
Page Number: 18
Household Gender Age
Thomas Winter Potter M 39
Eveline M Potter F 35
Daniel Larner M 38
Sarah Trigg F 36
Ellen W Nurse F 37
Hannah Mathews F 40
Emily Day F 24
Lydia Mills F 17
Lucy Atwell F 17

SO Paty, I'm afraid it's very late and I'm running out of references or energy and am more than a little confused, you certainly have a family tree with plenty of potential pitfalls !.
And no sorry I don't know why Hannah found herself in Staffs, unless went with the Thomas Bellis from Coleford although rather older than her ??

Hope this helps ?

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wow what lot information you have uncovered, very impressed.

I can tell you what I do have is the wedding certificate of Thomas Bellis (the handwriting BELLIS can be mistaken for BILLIS married to Hannah Mathews Feb 17th 1868 Etruria Church Stoke-on-Trent, Hannah age 20 names father as John Mathews occupation Mason, Thomas Bellis age 21, a collier father John Bellis occupation Collier. Both Hannah and Thomas give address at that time 'Etruria Road' I lived in Etruria for a while and still live less than a mile from Etruria Church where my children were christened

The IGI marriage record showed me the mother name Elizabeth Gwynn

It was based on the names John Mathews occupation 'stone cutter' wife Elizabeth and the area Colford Newland I assume these are Elizabeth's parents and siblings

1881 Census shows Thomas born Mostyn Flintshire Wales, Hannah born Forest Dean Gloucestershire, living 37 Meadow, St Hanley Stoke-on-Trent
on that census their youngest son is Peter who became my mums dad

1891 Hannah dies age 43 cause 'Haemorrhage exhaustion giving birth' no child listed after than so presume that was miscarriage or still birth

I have had no luck finding Hannah or or her family on census between 1841 Gloucester and her marriage in Stoke 1868

Thomas, our family history tells me came to this area for the coal mines, the mystery is why Hannah would be here unless coming with her family, I still have some searching to do

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1861 Census Newland
Bakens?Hill

Martha GWYN - 60 - born Hereford, Ganway? Parish
George - 30 - born Newland
Richard - 23 - born Newland

1851 Census, Coleford Lane End

Bro' Farm (Broadwell)

Martha GWYNN - widow - 51 - Farmer 21 Acres, born Herts Gavenay?
Edwin GWYNN - son - 26 - born Lane End
Ann GWYNN - 24 - Farmer's daughter
John GWYNN - 15
Richard GWYNN - 13

next door (transcribed as MATHEWES

John - 48 - coal miner - all born Newland
Elizabeth - 44
Elizabeth - 15
Mary - 14
Alis - 10
Lyida - 7
Hannah - 5

1841 Census, Newland Coalway End

Wm MATTHEWS - 65 - Carrier - born in County
William COOP? - 12 M/S

next door

MATTHEWS

John - 35 - stone cutter - all born in County
Elizabeth - 30
Ann - 9
Elizabeth - 6
Alice - 11
Mary - 4 months

next door but one

GWYNN

John - 35 - labourer - all born in County
Martha - 34
Edwin - 14
Ann - 12
George - 10
John - 5
Richard - 3

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Hi MPG, you've been busy these last few days !
I realise its probably completely irrelevant for this thread, but if you have the time & inclination, perhaps you could please check your Census data for the Chepstow Bellis' which I mentioned in an earlier post. I only had the Latterday Sainst site so not easy to find. I'm particularly curious as to where that particular Thomas Bellis went, as he's fallen off the FoD PRs from what I can see. Probably irrelevant but I'm still puzzzled as to why Hannah found herself in Stoke and I'm thinking there may have been a link between the Stoke Bellis' and the Chepstow Bellis' who seem a bit out of normal Bellis territory.
Hope you can help, either way have a good weekend !

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2198 views

Been getting over a 'bug' - hence attachment to the computer these last few days.

See what I can do - but off to see a Queens Concert at Shugborough shortly....

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2192 views

Thanks, glad you're getting better.
One more question, please clarify "Queens Concert", will the Royals be playing, or some drag acts, or ... ;-)

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2214 views

Lord Lichfield home - Shugborough

The Music of the Queens 'A rock and Symphonic Spectacular' for a friends birthday party.....

----

1841 Census, Flintshire Hawerden

BELLIS

Joseph - 50 - all born in County
Mary - 50
William - 20
Ann - 15
John - 15
Peter - 14

---

1851 Census, Chepstow, Monmouthshire

Peter BELLIS age 24 and George BELLIS - 23 from Hawarden, Flintshire - are lodgers

-----

1861 census

BELLIS

Peter - 34 - born Arden, Herefordshire
Elizabeth - 37 - all born Chepstow
Mary - 8
Thomas -7
Elizabeth - 3
Joseph James - 2
Emma - 10 months

1871 Census

Peter - 44 - Boiler Maker, born Harden, Flintshire
Elizabeth - 46
Thomas - 17 - Boiler Maker Apprentice
Joseph J - 12
Emma - 10
Martha - 9
Charlotte - 8
Ann - 6
Alice - 5
Clara - 2

---

Regarding Thomas BELLIS

- he is listed as Thomas BERRIS on the 1881 census - lodging in Bristol and working now as a Wood Turner....

He is on the 1891 Census, Somerset, Bedminster - listed as Thomas BELLIS

Thomas BELLIS - age 37 - Wood Turner, born Mon. Chepstow
Elizabeth A BELLIS - wife - 49 labourer, born Somerset Shepston Mallett
ARthur G BURNS ?- Stepson - age 15 - Apprentice Telephone Co. - born Bristol, Bedminster
Elizabeth A BELLIS - 8 - Scholar, born Bristol, Bedminster.
Thomas BELLIS - 6
Mary E CERY? Niece

+ a couple of lodgers...

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Hope you had a great concert with the Royals and the weather was fine (assuming it was outdoors?)

Thanks for the Bellis of Chepstow data, very interesting, especially wrt the transcription errors not to mention Thomas wasting his Boilermaker's training !. Don't blame him though, perversely I gave up woodworking in favour of the less pleasant environment of a metalbashing career, still miss the smell of woodshavings !

Maybe the Flintshire Bellis' resident in Monmouth knew the Flintshire Bellis' in Stoke, and Hannah Matthews from Coleford near Monmouth got to know them all .... social networking at it's infancy perhaps ?

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I live in Cannock, Staffordshire (once a big mining town) born Wiltshire - many of my friends all came here with their husbands (reluctantly and quite a shock, never seen a factory chimney 'til I moved here) and all for the same reason, work.

My Dad used to say 'I want you home for Winter' and when we took him to Cannock Chase, and he saw the Pine Trees - for the first time - he said, 'Well you are near Scotland'

-----

Staffordshire BDM - this also gives the mother's maiden name quite often

http://www.staffordshirebmd.org.uk/

quickly checking the a birth of a Jemima in 1870 - Staffordshire - Shelton

also an Ann BELLIS - is 1868 - Staffordshire - Shelton

can't see Thomas BELLIS - mother's maiden name MATTHEWS - only a Thomas ALLBUT MATTHEWS at Hanley, mother's maiden name MATTHEWS - Dec 1866

-------

so we have

Jemima BELLIS - mother's maiden name MATTHEWS

If you check the Marriages on Staffordshire BDM

you will find

Hannah MATTHEWS married Thomas BILLIS, - Etruria St Matthew - Stoke on Trent 1868

http://www.thepotteries.org/church/hanley/st_matthew.htm

---

1871 Staffordshire, Shelton, Hanley

40 York Street

BELLIS

Thomas- 25 Miner, born North Wales- 1881 census, born Flintsh. Moslyn
Hannah - 24 - Gloucester (c.1847) - 1881 census, born Gloucestershire Forest of Dean
Thomas - 4 - Hanley
Jeminia - 10 months

1861 Census, Glos. Newland

MATTHEWS

John - 57, Stone Cutter, Newland
Elizabeth - 55
Hannah -14 (c.1847)
Eliza GWYN - 9

---

quite a few BELLIS from Flintshire, in Hanley etc - around the same time including in 1861 John BELLIS age 38, from Flintshire with his wife Jemima - and children including a Thomas age 14.

so.1861 Census, Hanley

BELLIS

John - 38 Coalminer, born Flint
Jemima - 34 - Flint
Thomas - 14 Coalminer - born Flint
Ann - 10 - Flint
Samuel - 7 - Hanley
Jane - 5 - Hanley
James - 3 - Hanley
Ellen - 1 - Hanley

-----

1851 Census, Flintshire, Bagiltt (very faint census)

MERLLYN?

John BELLIS - 29 - Coal Miner
Jemima - 24
Thomas - 4
Elizabeth - 2
Ann - 2 months

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Hi MPG,
Well done & thanks, yes I knew from my schooldays & more recently the strikes etc that Staffs was a big mining area and still producing in far more recent times than N.Wales, FoD, Kent etc; the Census Returns suggests lots of migration there and presumably for same reason as you.
Think yourself lucky you wern't forced to move to the London area like me ;-)

I had seen the following possible marriage for Hannah in "Stoke" on FreeBMD but couldn't find the Bellis match, but Billis "yes" silly me, yet again I'm out-thought by the fairer of the species, no surprise there ! (but it was gone 3am...).

From FreeBMD;
Surname Given Name District Volume Page Transcriber
Marriages Mar 1868
Matthews Hannah Stoke On Trent 6b 200 bperowne

and (one of the only TWO Billis Marriages on the site, both Thomas's !. There are no Billis' on FoD PRs).

Surname First name(s) District Vol Page
Marriages Mar 1868 (>99%)
BILLIS Thomas Stoke T. 6b 200

One of the great things I like about this hobby is I can discover surnames I'd never heard of before, such as Bellis, yet find in some areas they're so very commonplace !.

HOWEVER, back to the question, WHY did Hannah move there ?. Where did she meet Thomas ?

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GWYNN and MATHEWS families Lane End Coleford (General)