hi all

I've known of this marriage record for sometime now but have been unable to fathom out who Mary was. At least 2 candidates exist.... A 1772 version and another dated 1776

I joined ancestry this week and checked out their family trees (and there are a few)

Without exception, they claim that Thomas married the 1776 version and that her parents were William 1724 and Eleanor C Tomblin 1726 (both from Bream)who married in 1748

I can't find any trace of this marriage in this sites parish registers, are there any other resources that may help to confirm this marriage?

thanks Brian

You could use the Advance Search for witnesses:

to re-cap

Your Thomas BEACH of Newland, married Mary KEAR of Newland - by banns: 31 August 1797 : witnesses: Richard JAMES and Thos. BOND

Richard JAMES witnesses just a few marriages at Newland -

Marriage at Newland: 6 May 1802 - when James KEAR (over 21) - Bachelor and Gentleman - married Elizabeth MORGAN (Widow) by Licence) - 6 May 1802, Richard JAMES again witnessed.

and on the 3 August 1812, when John SMITH married Mary KEAR at Newland, Richard JAMES witnessed again.. (or could be his Son)

Marriage at Newland - 24 october 1803

Richard JAMES, Bachelor, Newland, married Ann KEAR, Spinster of Newland - 24 October 1803 - witnesses: Geo KEAR and Thos. BOND.

http://forum.forest-of-dean.net/index.php?mode=thread&id=2994

--

Looking at Public Members Tree on Ancestry

Thomas & Mary BEACH's first son was James BEACH born 1798

---

????

Marriage at Newland 11 October 1770

Richard JAMES of Newland, married Mary KEAR of Newland, by Banns

witnesses: R WILLIAMS and John HAYWARD

Hi MPG

still as ingenious and resourceful as ever.....

I haven't yet been able to establish a relationship between Mary Kear 1776 and Mary Kear mother of Richard James 1774 but maybe this will become apparent with further research.

I have made some significant progress though (it's so much easier when you have a road map to follow) The following records can be found

Thomas Kear died 1813 aged 41
Widow Mary Kear married Thomas Dobbs 1827
1841 census shows them in Whitecroft dob 1776
1851 census shows then in Whitecroft dob 1776 living with granddaughter Ester Beach

So, I'm confident now that it is the correct Mary Kear. Her baptism shows her parents to be William and Eleanor. I can find many siblings but no details of her parents wedding. So who was Eleanor? (aka Elnor, Elianor, Elinor, Elanor, Elinar and Eliner!)

The ancestry trees point to Eleanor Court Tomblins born 1726. There is a baptism for Eleanor Tomblins 1726 but I've no idea how this can be linked William and her name expanded to include Court.

Could the William/Eleanor marriage be listed elsewhere???

I'd love to establish this link because, if true, it could lead me to a further six generations of grandparents via kiwibatman's Bateman tree on Ancestry.

Any advice/guidance welcomed

Brian

You've just educated me. Thank you.

A good demonstration lesson on how to use witnesses to marriage (and sponsors to baptisms I suppose) to forward research.

I'll apply it to my own research.

Janet

Hi i think i may be able to help you out Let me start with Marys line

Mary Kear c 1778

PARENTS WERE Sarah James 1745-1825 and Thomas Kear 1745 -1815
They were married 8th Jan 1767 Newland

Sarah had a brother Richard 1760-1844 who married Anne Ash

Sarah James PARENTS WERE Richard James c1727-1767 And Sarah unknown -1801

so the Richard who was a witness at Marys wedding was either her Uncle or Grandfather

Now the Kear line

Thomas Kear 1745-1815 parents were Richard Kear 1684-1776 and Mary Worgan 1705- 1785
I havn`t followed the kears back yet so i am unable to help you any more I hope i can set you on a new path
good hunting
Terry

see will

http://www.forest-of-dean.net/index.php/wills

Fod Records - Baptism 17 May 1726

Eleanor TOMLINS - parents William & Maria : residence, Coleford

Ancestry

Eleanora TOMBLINS, 17 May 1726, Newland, Gloucester, parents Guil TOMBLINS and Mariaae

CLDS

Eleanora TOMBLINS - 17 May 1726, Newland, parents Guil , Guilielmus Latin for William and Mariae TOMBLINS

Ancestry:

Baptism at Newland, 27 April 1673, Guilielm TOMLINS, father : Guilielmi TOMLINS

(The Inventory on Ancestry of Henry TOMBLINES of Newland 1695 is signed by Guilliomuin TOMBLINS)

Death of William given on these trees from the Fod Records + Public Members Trees - William TOMBLINS of Coleford, buried at Newland - 17 March 1732 - which would make his age 59 years which left Maria as a widow who must have been younger re baptisms of their children - what happened to her?

??? Unless Maria never married William TOMBLINS, but later on at Newland May 1733, Maria BERRINGTON of Monmouth married John COURT of Yorkley at Newland.

Gloucestershire Marriage Allegations

26 March 1733, John COURT, Widower of Newland, married Mary BERRINGTON, Spinster age 40, residence: Monmouth

or

Maria is Maria BEACH (christened at Newland 1699) who married Richard JAMES at Newland - 29 May 1731
----

Children of : William & Maria TOMBLINS

making William age 47 on the birth of his first child with Maria……

1720 - TOMBLINS, Esau
1722 - TOMBLINS, Hanna
1724 - TOMBLINS, Henry
1726 - TOMBLINS, Eleanor

all residence: Coleford, parents, christened at Newland
-----

Eleanor Court TOMLINS 1726 could this be Eleanor KEAR TOMLINS (couple of KEAR/TOMLINS marriages etc)

Marriage Licence Allegations on Fod Records

- 24 October 1666 (can't as yet see this on the marriage records, only Marriage Licence Allegations) **

James TOMLINS age 23, Bachelor, Yeoman, Newland

to marry

Margarett KARE age 25, Spinster, Newland

Bondman: Jane TOMLINS, Newland (Burial at Newland - 6 February 1676, Jane TOMLYN, residence: Coleford, Widow)
Gloucestershire Genelogical Database - show Jane's Will 1675 - (1676 on Ancestry, sons William, James & Henry, daughter Elizabeth wife of John?)

? Gloucestershire Marriage Allegations

William TOMLINS age 30 c1676 of Coleford, married Jane ELLY, Widow of Coleford - 1 August 1706

so…. Assume this could possibly be William's first marriage…..

(Jane DUBBERLY married Henry ELLY at Newland - 1 June 1691)

Burial at Newland - 25 January 1719, Jane TOMBLINS - residence: Coleford, Wife of William and Esau was christened 17 August 1720 - William & Maria --

--

Looking at the Fod Record : Henry & Jane ELLY has five children at Coleford/Newland

Maria - 1692
Henry - 1699
Jane - 1705
Eliza - 1709
Richard - 1719

--

(one Marriage Allegation memoranda : Surname: KEAR/CARE) ooo

(Looking at National Archives A2 - there is a Will of Mary CARE alias KEARE 1727 - Widow of Stoke Orchard, Gloucestershire - which shows the 'alias' surname…

-----

--- couple of children (parents James & Margaret TOMLINS ) on Fod records including: Eleanor TOMLINS - 20 November 1682

John - 1674
William - 1676
Henry - 1679

ooo

Gloucestershire Marriage Allegations 30 May 1787

Thomas CARE - age 30, Batchelor, Husbandman, St Briavels
to marry
Sarah JAMES, Spinster, Newland

by Licence

To marry at Newland, Signs KEARE etc.

---

*** it would seem the Marriage Allegations on the records are worth looking through as well…..

Hi MPG

Gosh, there's a lot to delve into here thanks. I'll have take the plunge and get back to you later with my thoughts. Thanks for your efforts

I did a similar digging exercise using advance search of marriages and baptisms of females starting El. Lots of Elizabeths and, surprisingly to me, very few Eleanor's etc

As you have spotted, 1726 Eleanor Tomblins and 1727 Eleanor Court exist. Makes me wonder if someone on Ancestry couldn't decide which one married William Kear and set up a joint record which all future tree builders have simply copied for want of anything better? Its certainly a strange coincidence. What do you think?

Cheers Brian

As the Public Members Trees on Ancestry vary…… saying Mary died - Mary married a Dobbs ? very confusing….

Thomas BEACH buried 16 July 1813 : residence: Whitecroft - buried at Newland
last child appears to be

George BEACH 1813 seems to be the last child christened of Thomas & Mary BEACH

Again from Public Members Tree, George BEACH married Abia LEADBEATER - 1835 - witnesses were William & Mary TOES
GloucestershireBDM : Thirza TOES 1844 Westbury on Severn - mother's maiden name BEACH.

Fod Records: William TOVES married Mary BEACH 8 November 1828 at Ruardean: witnesses: William JONES & Esther WATKINS

1851 Census, Glos West Dean
Whitecroft

TOOZE

William - 48 - born Woolaston
Mary - 41 - born West Dean - c1811 - parents Thomas & Mary BEACH
William - 19
Mary Ann - 17
Annis - 14
Thursa - 7

1841 Census Glos West Dean
Whitecroft

TOOZE

William - 35
Mary - 30
Amelia - 9
William - 7
Mary - 5
Annefs - 3

---

----

John COURT'S Will is on Ancestry 1769

The children of John's first marriage: i.e. John 1720, William 1722, Jane 1725 (who died) and Eleanor 1726 - so just one daughter survived.

His Will does talk about his daughter Eleanor - and her present husband - and also a Grand-daughter Sarah Edwards (I think that's the surname) and his worthy friend John DEW the younger (Executor)- rather difficult to read - so possibly, this Eleanor or Sarah married an Edwards (obviously needs checking once again and another pair of eyes to read the Will. Talks about his brother Richard SMITH, and think whatever is going on, doesn't want Eleanor's present husband to have any control!

Fod Records

William COURT of Newland, married Mary DEW by Licen at Newland 21 Feb 1757

--

The Courts of Newland (a pdf file on the 'net' with ability to enhance - use arrows to go across this wide document….etc - not sure if this helps!!)

http://www.courtgen.com/graphics/ambrey_court.pdf

Hi again MPG

As the police would say, we have opened up several lines of enquiry! Thanks for all your efforts, they offer valuable insights into how the data can be exploited......

The most productive line to date seems to be the following......

There are around 100 Eleanors (and variants) on FOD with baptisms between 1720 and 1736. Somewhat arbitrary but as William and Eleanor's first was born in 1752 a reasonable stab. Whittling this down, on mainly geographic grounds, I was left with just 3 prime suspects

1728 Eleanor Edwards Breem
1726 Eleanor Tomblins Coleford
1726 Eleanor Court Breem

There are also two interesting burial records

1804 William Kear Breem
1816 Eleanor Kear Breem aged 88 implying 1728 birth

All this leads me to suspect that Eleanor Court Tomblins and Eleanor C Tomblins found all over the Ancestry trees never existed. Someone joined two people together cos they couldn't decide which to choose and this then got copied across multiple trees.

In fact the most likely spouse for William looks to be Eleanor Edwards, but as is often the case, it's a question of faith rather than fact. I'll certainly be double checking anything I find published on Ancestry in the future......

I now have two new branches to research. The Kear tree potentially goes back to the mid 1500s so maybe I'll leave it for now and wait for the long winter nights!!!

Regards Brian

PS I have found that using the FOD advanced search into early records often leads to "implied marriages". ie children of x and y but no marriage for x and y. Do you know if the marriage records are less complete or is there another reason?

Ancestry:
England, Select Marriages 1538-1973 (no specific date/place given)

Name: William Court KEAR

Gender: Male

Child: Anne Court KEAR

---

1881 Census, 32 Loraine Road, St Mary's Islington

Wm BULLOCK JONES - unmarried 29 - Commerical Traveller, born St Briavels
John JONES - 64 - Father born Bedminster, Somerset
Sarah C JONES - Mother - 60 - born St Briavels
Elizabeh JONES - sister 15 born St briavels
William COURT JONES - 34, Commerical Traveller, born St Briavels
Solomon W DAVIES - 36
Elizabeth JONES - sister, born St Briavels

---

and

Name: William Coart KEAR

Gender: male

Age: 26

Birth Date: 1861

Marriage Date: 3 July 1887

Marriage Place: Saint Michael and All Angles, Croydon, Surrey

Father: Thomas Henry KEAR

Spouse: Sarah Grace Swettingham

1871 Census, St Briavels

KEAR

Thomas - 61 - Haulier, born St Briavels
Hester - 49
Mary Ann - 18
Charles Grenies KEAR - 17
William Court KEAR - 13
Exton Turner KEAR - 11

---

Until every early marriage that exists (excluding those eaten by Mice) from every County is transcibed and available on the 'net' - brickwalls will abound….

The Gloucesteshire Wills on Ancestry do help, that is unless of course our Ancestor's never made one.

Took me over 4 years to find one of my set of x grandparents marriages - the Bride born in Wiltshire, brought up in Gloucestershire - the Groom from Gloucestershire, yet married in London, then moved back to Wiltshire (witnesses to their wedding were invaluable in this instance) - This was one branch 'with a few bob' - so they moved about a bit and whatever their income - people moved to work and survive.

Hi Terry

From the charts that you sent it looks likely that witness Richard James was Mary Kear's nephew..... Another good clue as to which Mary Kear got married to Thomas Beach MPG was on the money again......

Richard James 1778 to Warren James 1751 and Anne nee Kear 1753 sister of Anne Kear 1776

Thanks for all your help. I'll contact you directly re the charts

Brian

?

When Richard JAMES - Bachelor, Newland, married Ann ASH c1770 (WIDOW) - 7 MARCH 1804 - witnesses were Mary MORGAN, Eliz KEAR and Thos. BOND

---

Richard NASH - bachelor (age 25 on Licence) - Hundred of St Briavels - married Mary JAMES (age 25 - spinster, Hundred of St Briavels - witness were James JAMES. Thos. BOND.

Not too many ASH's around - ? was the surname written down correctly and or could it be NASH - can't as yet see a ASH/NASH marriage to an Ann/Hannah or a burial of her husband.

Hi All

Can't believe where this little thread has led me to!!!!!!!

Various sources quote Averil Kear currently working at the Gloucester Archives. She (and several others) have spent years documenting the Kears of the FOD.

Apparently, they all descend from Edward Kere b1541 in Newland. His ancestry has then been traced back to Rhodri the Great c820 Reigned as King Of Wales 844-878. Worth a google...

Anyone researching the Kears with an Ancestry account might also find the "Bateman Family Tree" owned by batmankiwi (sic) interesting......

HRH Brian

Apologies to all fellow Kears who, like me, will have to cancel their orders for ermine robes.....

I should have added a large caveat here. It's been pointed out to me that

"It is ongoing research and some of it is based on supposition.
One person is listed as Unknown Kear bc1305 so at the moment no-one can be 100% sure"

I've given myself a slap on the wrist and hope for your forgiveness, Brian

I also am researching this line of enquiry and coming up with some fanciful things so it will be sometime before I have closed the case so to speak, but good to know others are having the same trouble. Rita from NZ, Eleanor was my 5th gr gr.