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I believe i am descended from William Toomey (1787-1868) and Elizabeth Burnett (1788-1857) both born in Churcham. I am trying to find out more about the lives of both and their ancestors , ultimately to tie them to something tangible. e.g. a cottage where they lived.
Can anyone help me with the actual location of Toomey's Hill in Churcham ? ( According to the "Proceedings of Cotswald Naturalists Field Club Volume 11" published in 1895, page 38 mentions this place name)".
Thank you
Sid Toomey

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I don't know if it's much help but there are plenty of mentions of TOOMEYs or TOOMYs in the 1841 Census and later. Most of them are associated with the Birdwood area which is closer to Huntley than Churcham itself. However, there is no sign of a Toomeys Hill on old maps.

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The Article refered to on the 'net' is the Seige of Gloucester, which took place in 1643 **

There is a PDF file on the net re: Major-General Edward Massey - 1642-1647

'Soon, however, Massey lost two key garrisons, protecting the approach to Gloucester from the Forest of Dean. Both Huntley and Westbury were betrayed to the enemy. To prevent Winter from the seizing the Vineyard and blocking Over bridge - a new garrison had to be placed at the village of Churcham, only 3 miles of the west of Gloucester'

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**
'A battery was erected on Vineyard Hill, at Over, during the Seige of Gloucester.

Names of places and fields in Churcham

Hester Hill, Toomeys Hill, Colt Pound, The Speak, The Sah, Solomons Tump, Clauses, Oxleys, Little Hedges, Lobstocks, Big Cockshot, Little Cockshot'

Looking at Men in Armour 1608 - there are no TOOMEY's in Church or elsewhere.

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Gloucestershire Marriage Index

William TUMMEY married Elizabeth BURNETT - at Churchdown - 7 November 1809

at Churchdown - parents William (labourer) and Elizabeth

Harriet - 18 April 1813
Ann TOMEY - 7 January 1816
George TOMMEY - 16 April 1820
Peter 7 April 1822
Joseph - 14 January 1827
Thomas - 5 November 1830

? Not sure if this is your William TOOMEY, as children's baptisms stop after 1830 - - sometimes these records are on the Gloucestershire Genealogical Database - but can't see this William's goal records on there.

Ancestry - Criminal records - Gloucestershire

William TOOMEY - Summer 1825, Acquittal, Larcency

William TOOMEY - Michaelmas 1832 - Larcency, transportation for 7 years

Ancestry

New South Wales, Convict Indents (can open the actual page on Ancestry at the moment)

William TOOMEY
estimated date of birth abt 1786

Date of Conviction: 16 October 1832 (also 15 October 1832 given)

Plate of Conviction: Gloucester

Vessel: Lord Lyndoch

Port of Arrival: New South Wales

Date of Arrival: 18 October 1833

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1841 Census
Churcham
Birdwood

(no sign of William at home with his family - unless he his Will TOOMEY 55 - Ag Lab, born in County - Glos St Owen District Gloucester General Infirmary)

TOOMEY
Elizabeth - 54 ( CLDS christened at Churchdown - 3 February 1788, parents Thos & Ann BURNETT
George - 20
Peter - 15
Joseph - 14
Thomas - 10

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? as no trace, as yet can be found of the christening of William TOOMEY c1787 at Churcham

?

Marriage by Licence at Churcham - 4 October 1792

Thomas BARNARD, age 21, Batchelor, labourer
married
Mary TOOMMY - age 30, Singlewoman.

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Thanks for your reply.This is my family according to my research. I believe the Wiliam Toomey you mentioned who was transported as a convict to NSW was not the one who married Elizabeth in 1809 in Churchdown, but was born in Churchdown in 1810. Once he arrived in Australia he served out his time and gained his ticket of leave before dying suddenly on a property called Trevallyn in the bush outside Sydney. Because of the date of his birth,the year after my William's marriage and before William's other children started being born, i wonder whether he could have been my Williams first child. Being named William after his father could be another clue. I must keep digging.
Sid Toomey

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Thanks for your reply Mike. Some of the Birdwood Toomey"s are my ancestors according to my research. I am comfortable with my findings from the present day (me) back to William I mentioned in my original post. From looking at the list of baptisms in this sites Parish Records, there are at least two sets of Toomey parents who could be my William's parents. i.e. Richard and Hannah Toomey or John and Mary Toomey.
Gives me something more to ponder.
Sid Toomey

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Elizabeth BURNETT - wife of William TOOMEY (married at Churchdown, in previous thread)

Church of Latter Day Saints

Elizabeth BURNETT - christened 3 February 1788 at Churchdown, parents Thomas & Ann

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Gloucestershire Burial Index

CHURCHDOWN

Ann BURNET - 14 August 1814 - age 17 - daughter of Thomas & Ann

Ann BURNET - wife of Thomas - age 66 - 8 May 1826
Thomas BURNETT - 6 May 1834 - age 76 - residence, Hasfield ***

Charles BURNETT - 1 June 1819 - age 9m son of William & Sarah, residence, Churchdown
William BURNETT - 15 October 1820 - age 20w - residence, Churchdown, parents William & Sarah
William BURNETT - 29 October 1821 - 7 days - residence: Hucclescote - parents, William & Sarah

Gloucestershire Marriage Index

CHURCHDOWN

Hannah BURNETT married James LEWIS of Eldersfield - 8 November 1809

As Thomas BURNETT was buried at Hasfield - 6 May 1834 - and Hannah BURNETT married James LEWIS in 1809

? is this Hannah & James LEWIS in Hasfield - 1841 census

Folley

James LEWIS - 60 - Bricklayer - not born in County
Hannah - 60
Ann - 17
Charles - 15
Elizabeth SANDFORD - 5

and confirmed by the 1851 census, Glos Tirley

James LEWIS 74 - formerly mason - born Worcs. Eldersfield
Hannah LEWIS - 64 - formerly shop keeper - born Churchdown

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The 1851 census was taken on the 30 March.

James LEWIS of Tirley's Will is on Ancestry - he died 3 April 1851.

Talks about his wife Hannah, Son Charles - daughter: Hannah, wife of William DAVIS (Coachman) and daughter Anne.

His son Charles was a Bricklayer and appears at the end of the Will after his father's death for probate.

Charles was living at 3 Beaches Buildings, Nelson Street, Birmingham and William DAVIS was living in Hasfield

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1851 Census, Warwickshire, Birmingham
Beaches Buildings
Nelson S South

Charles LEWIS - 24, Bricklayer, born Glos. Tirley
Caroline - 28 - born Glos. Apperley
George LEWIS - 1 - born Birmingham

and 1851 Census, Hasfield

DAVIS

William - 35 - Servant, born Worcs. Longdon
Hannah - 29 - Laundress - born Tirley
William - 7
Maryann - 5
Charles - 2

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1851 Census, Churcham

William TOOMEY, Head, Mar, 64, Agricultural Labourer, b. Gloucestershire Churcham
Elizabeth, Wife, Mar, 62, b. Gloucestershire Churchdown

The previous entry is,

1851 Census, Churcham

Richard DOBBS, Head, Un, 34, Farmer of 15 acres employing no man, b. Gloucestershire, Tibberton

1861 Census, Cottage

William TOOMEY, Head, Widower, 76, Ag. Lab., b. Glos. Churcham
Ann, Dau, Un, 45, Ag. Lab., b. Glos. Churcham,

and the previous entry is,

1861 Census, Solamans T Farm

Richard DOBBS, Head, Mar, 40, Farmer 15 acres, b. Glos. Tibberton
Ellen, Wife, Mar, 31, Farmer’s Wife, b. Glos. Eastington

This might indicate that William’s cottage was not far from Solomon’s Tump Farm. The border with Huntley Parish runs straight through the area.

http://maps.nls.uk/view/101453121

http://maps.nls.uk/view/101453133

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Given the varied spelling of Toomey already shown in this thread, I wonder if anyone knows of a connection between this enquiry and Ann Toommy (so spelt according to the transcriber) who was married at Minsterworth on 29 Dec 1794 (so 220 years ago tomorrow) to Richard Sterry (signing "Steery".) They were my gt-gt-gt-gt-grandparents. Admittedly in the 1794 entry the bride's residence was given as Minsterworth, like the bridegroom's, but that's close enough to Churcham to arouse my interest.

We have no earlier trace by parish records of this particular Richard Sterry, but a few years ago my father's cousin Alan Sterrey of Lydney (who died recently, and the change of spelling dates largely from his grandfather Henry) gave a DNA sample that proved we are linked to the Sterry line of Longhope going back to at least the 1660s (as "Stirry".) The parish records on this site also turn up 94 Sterry events (but no Richard) at Huntley. There is no Sterry at Churcham until 1825. But of course if you were making gradual progress from Longhope to Minsterworth you'd almost certainly come through Huntley and quite possibly visit Churcham.

So my Sterry line, who still abound in and around Lydney by that and various other surnames, would love to find out how our Richard of 1794 came to be at Minsterworth before the line progressed downriver via Awre/Blakeney to Lydney.

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On Ancestry - the copy of the handwritten entry - Pallots marriage at Minsterworth has

STERRY [b]Edward [/b]- Anne (think there is an e at the end of Ann) - TOOMEY - 29 December 1794 - not Richard STERRY. Fod records has the Christian name: Richard …Who's correct?

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Will of Richard STERRY of The Flat, Westbury on Severn - 20 February 1836 - talks about his wife Elizabeth, Son William and daughter Elizabeth OLIVE -

Thomas OLIVE married Elizabeth STERRY - 9 November 1807 Gloucester St Mary de Lobe

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Artus Genealogy Resources - has Minsterworth birth/marriage/burials records
Although this man was researching the surname Artus - he has transcribed the Minsterworth records. He also has transcribed the marriage 29 December 1794 as Edward Sterry to Ann TOOMEY. The Sterry Worldwide website also quotes the Pallot's marriage i.e. Edward STERRY as does Freereg.

www.artus-familyhistory.com

baptisms
1575-1700
1701-1800
1801-1900

marriages
1633-1700
1701-1800
1801-1850

Burials from 1625

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Many marriages are from people outside the area

Quick look at the Gloucestershire Burial Index for Minsterworth

William STERRY - buried 29 July 1838 - aged 59 (residence, Gloucester) = C1779

(this information appears also to be on the STERRY website - with a transcript of the Will, wives: Ann TUCKER and Mary Ann BOWSHER - and William was from the Longhope line)

William STERREY (Coach Proprietor with horses, harnesses, omnibus etc ) - Will dated - 6 March 1839 is on Ancestry - wife Ann
Will made 24 April 1838 - and William died 23 July 1838

On Probate: Ann his wife was a Straw Bonnet Manufacturer, John Calton, City of Gloucester, Gentleman was the Executor, no children mentioned.

He was from Bearland, in the Parish of Saint Nicholas, and owned Coaches and Flys etc.

1841 Census
Bearland, Gloucester St Nicholas
STERRY Ann - 45 born in County

1851 Census
Gloucester St Aldate, Gloucester
21 Aldate St

Elizabeth TUCKER - head Widow - 66 - Bristol (straw bonnet maker)
Ann STERRY - 68 - Bristol, sister Widow
John MORRIS - 43 - Gloucestershireshire, nephew - Gloucester, paper hanger mar
Eliza MORRIS - 47 - Bristol, niece - Gloucester mar
Frederick SANDFORD - 20, Winchester, Gloucestershire, visitor, un. Soliciter's general clerk

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no TOOMEY burials

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Grateful as I am for the further input, I suppose that in view of the DNA link my question would be much the same (i.e. how did a Sterry of the Longhope line come to be married at Minsterworth?) whether the bridegroom of 1794 was Edward or Richard. I have seen the bridegroom given as Edward in a typed, bound index at Gloucestershire Archives as well, but I have taken it to be Richard from the parish records index on this site and from previous research laid out in www.sterryworldwide.com where the source is cited as "Minsterworth Parish Register." I suppose sight of the original entry would be necessary to resolve this, unless somebody other than the f-o-d transcriber has seen it already.

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We have checked the transcript of the marriage against the original and can confirm that the forename is definitely Richard.

Michael

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I note that Richard & Ann STERRY had a child Mary baptised 3 September 1797 at Minsterworth before having children at Awre.

Many years ago, the then Archivist & Records Agent at Gloucestershire Records Office was looking at my WICKENDEN family of Awre … and checked the for Settlement papers for Awre - mid 18th century onwards - the overseers of the poor were obliged by law to investigate the origins of people who moved into their parish in order to establish who would take responsibility for them if they were unable to support themselves.

The only info she found was

14 August 1811
William COOPER, about 11 years old, the son of Mary WILKINS formerly COOPER, was apprenticed by the parish to Ann WICKENDEN of Awre, housekeeper in order to learn the art of husbandry.' (this Ann W is my x grandmother)

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Do wonder if this Mary COOPER's marriage at Awre - 24 May 1801 to Thomas WILKS

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Also a survey and valuation of Awre parish was made in 1829-39

Etloe tithing
Henry WICKENDEN was the tenant of 9 plots of arable and grassland, 1 orchard plot and a house and garden. Total of 42a

Landowner :….. BLANCHE esq

Etloe Duchy tithing
Henry WICKENDEN was the tenant of 6 plots of arable and grassland - a homestead, house and garden, described as part of Etloe Farm Total of 16a

Landowner - …. BLANCHE esq

Also Land Tax Assessment for Awre etc

So other records in the Gloucester Records Office may solve some of your questions.

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Thanks for the last two replies.

This could run and run.

I have it that Richard (as we now know him to be) Sterry and Ann nee Toommy/Twomey/Toomey, married at Minsterworth 220 years ago today, had 7 children altogether, of whom Mary was the second. I've got their first child as William Sterry on the grounds that there is a William Sterry on GRO records dying in the Westbury-on-Severn registration district in 1866 at the age of 72 and I can't spot his baptism unless it's the William who was baptised on 11 Oct 1795 at Minsterworth with mother Ann, albeit the father is given as William according to transcription on this site which I have to suspect is a mistake for Richard either by transcriber or by priest.

[At all events, that William Sterry married Ann Shaw on 28 Feb 1822 at Awre-with-Blakeney (not confirmed on here, but parish register recited) and their second child was another Richard, baptised Blakeney 14 Dec 1823 with parents' residence Etloe, buried Lydney 4 Aug 1894. He was my gt-gt-grandfather.]

It may never be more than a dream of discovery, but I still hanker to know how Richard, proven by DNA to have been from the Longhope line of Sterrys, came to roll up for a wedding at Minsterworth in 1794.

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The marriage you refer to is on this site:
Year: 1822
Month: Feb
Day: 28
Grooms_Surname: STERREY
Grooms_Forenames: William
Grooms_Age: [not stated]
Groom_Condition: Bachelor
Grooms_Occupation: [not stated]
Grooms_Residence: Awre
Grooms_Fathers_Surname: [not stated]
Grooms_Fathers_Forenames: [not stated]
Grooms_Fathers_Occupation: [not stated]
Brides_Surname: SHAW
Brides_Forenames: Ann
Brides_Age: [not stated]
Brides_Condition: Spinster
Brides_Occupation: [not stated]
Brides_Residence: Awre
Brides_Fathers_Surname: [not stated]
Brides_Fathers_Forenames: [not stated]
Brides_Fathers_Occupation: [not stated]
Licence_or_Banns: Banns
Date_of_Banns:
Signature_or_Mark: He signs she marks
Witness_1: Thomas Shaw
Witness_2: Elizabeth Shaw
Other_Witnesses: Charles Fennell
Officiating_Minister: C. P. N. Wilton Curate
Event: Marriage
Memoranda:
Notes:
Register_Reference: P30 IN 1/5
Page_Number: 31
Parish_Chapel: Awre

Mike

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Thanks. You're quite right and I didn't pick it up in the current discussion because this was - I think - the first time the spelling "Sterrey" crept in.

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Thanks heaps for this information and links to the old maps. I had been mainly looking around Church lane and Oakle Street. In fact i have walked them both courtesy of Google Earth so often i feel like a local. Since your reply i have looked more closely at the 1861 Census and notice that all of the inhabitants in the twelve pages of Census returns looked at were living on the North Side of the Roman Road between the border with Huntley in the West and Beauchamp Lodge in the East. Looks like i will be friends with Google Earth once more.
Do you know if the Census entries always followed a logical party ? i.e. Would the cottage you mentioned be next door to the Farm ?
I read somewhere that the Census reports were transcribed after all of the information had been gathered. One of them i looked at for the Toomeys in another decade showed pages of entries with each family or lodging allocated a consecutive number but no addresses were actually listed. Do you know why this would be.
Sid Toomey

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As you have obviously noticed the enumerator’s notes make it clear that this was predominantly north Churcham parish, i.e. north of the main Gloucester-Ross road. The whole of Bulley parish was also included together with a few properties south of the road. There are a few places mentioned which are identifiable on the maps but we have to recognise that the earliest map is from the 1880s and things might have been changed or forgotten since 1861. There are many more maps here ranging from the 1880s to the 1920s which might help identify other places of interest:-

http://maps.nls.uk/

It is usually possible to track some kind of progression for the course of a census but whether or not it is logical is another matter! In this case what attracted my attention was the juxtaposition of William’s entry with that of Richard DOBBS in two censuses some 10 years apart. Of course , it’s not proof but simply suggestive that they weren’t far away from each other.

It’s quite true that what are normally available to us are the enumeration books; these were compiled by the enumerator from the schedules collected from each household. The schedules were delivered in advance and filled in by the householder although, in many cases, the enumerator would have had to provide assistance, especially in the earlier years before literacy became widespread. The schedules themselves were usually destroyed after checking and/or extraction of statistics. The exception to this is the 1911 census where we can generally see the original schedules in our forebears' handwriting.

What address information is given seems to have been down to the diligence of the enumerator. Some gave the names of houses and cottages, some named only the more important dwellings and some gave practically no information at all.

Good luck with wandering the Earth.

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I'm glad this has been answered first by someone wiser and more experienced than me, hopefully more will follow, as this is a subject I'm keen to understand better too.

Its a few months since I've searched the Census', so pardon my rustiness. I may be wrong, but my limited understanding is that the first page or so of each Census book contains a box/paragraph showing the area being covered by that Census, as a list of placenames or streets if town or city. I think I'm right in saying that this is usually taken to be the "running" (well, walking) order that the Census was taken hence the same page order that book is presented/bound. This is just my perception of what I've seen and learnt from reading posts on this forum, it may only apply to the later 1911 Census ?, and I'm very happy to be corrected.

I think they're only available for the 1911 Census (?), but I've sometimes seen the Census Summary books when using Ancestry. These simplified "mini-Censuses" definitely appear to be a logical progression thro the given village, rather than say in alphabetical order of householders, perhaps they're worth looking out for to compare against the full Census as a usefull guide.

These links helped me understand the 1911 Census process better.

http://www.1911census.org.uk/

http://thefamilyrecorder.blogspot.co.uk/2010/12/1911-census-enumerators-summary-books.h...

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Thanks for your information on the Burnetts and Lewis's

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Does Anyone know whether the records of the Gloucestershire Infirmary- Parishes of St Owen and Littleworth still exist ?
I believe my 4th Great Grandfather William was an inmate/in patient there at the time of the 1841 Census and am hopeful of exploring this further.

PS. Originally i was trying to locate physical evidence of his birthplace . Thanks to help from FOD forum members, I am now content that it has been pinpointed.
I am now working on winning Lotto so I can come visit.

Sid Toomey

6411 views

Hi again Sid,
this is NOT my area of knowledge at all, but hopefully you'll agree with my findings, gained over a very interesting browse around the net, namely;

Littleworth and St Owen were both in the Southgate/Docks area just west of Gloucester city centre.
See Section 4 of this excellent document for history
http://www.gloucester.gov.uk/resident/Documents/Planning%20and%20Building%20Control/His...

The original Gloucester Infirmary was in Southgate Street until it was demolished in the 1980s. It can be seen on the southwestern edge of the city on this 1792 map of Gloucester, as you can see Sid the city is centred on "The Cross", from which North, East, West and Southgate Streets radiate outwards. The Cross was originally at the centre of the Roman fortress Glevum built about 68AD, from which the rest of the settlement grew.
http://www.british-history.ac.uk/sites/default/files/publications/pubid-281/images/fig0...

It's marked in the lower L/H corner of this highly-detailed O.S. map from the 1880s
http://maps.nls.uk/view/101453175

The Kelly's Directory of 1897 states

"The General Infirmary, in Southgate street, with which is amalgamated the Gloucestershire Eye Institution-(formerly in Market parade), is a structure of brick, the central portion of which was erected in 1755 from designs by Mr. L. Singleton: the south wing, erected in 1827, is assigned to the treatment of medical cases only, and the north wing, opened in 1871, to surgical cases, accidents and out-patients, the original block being reserved for miscellaneous patients: there are beds for 150 patients, besides some additional private wards, surgery, dispensary, and medical officers' rooms; the annual number of in-patients admitted is about 1,430 and of out-patients about 7,580."

This, and details about the other old infirmaries and dispensaries within old Gloucester are described in great detail in the Kelly's Directory of 1897 which may be found near the very bottom of this webpage.
http://forebears.co.uk/england/gloucestershire/gloucester

In 1848 it looked like this
http://www.ancestryimages.com/proddetail.php?prod=h2390

Inside a ward in 1912
http://www.visit-gloucestershire.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/1900GlosRoyal1912_WEB...
From this great site for old Gloster http://www.visit-gloucestershire.co.uk/old-gloucester/old-gloucester-menu/

And in more recent times, c1970?
https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/564x/9c/79/e8/9c79e8a3c7bb2996aeda52f694b21e48.jpg

So, all this ties-in nicely with Slowhands' old forum post
http://www.forest-of-dean.net/fodmembers/index.php?id=9540

Hence it definitely seems to me that this is the Infirmary you're thinking of.
(wheras I was ignorantly wondering whether the Workhouse would be relevant ?)

This Infirmary was presumably still in use at the same time as the NHS Hospital I attended a few times in the 1970s, a dark-looking Victorian building on Great Western Road which is the opposite/eastern side of the city centre. Apparently known as Gloucester City General Hospital, it was originally the infirmary for the Workhouse next door. This can be seen towards the centre of the old OS map referenced above.
http://www.workhouses.org.uk/Gloucester/

This "Great Western" Hospital as we called it was replaced in the 1970s by the modern tower block "Gloucester Royal Hospital" built on the same site. It seems that the remaining services being performed at the old Infirmary site were then also transferred to this new "Royal", before the old Infirmary was itself demolished in the 1980s.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gloucestershire_Hospitals_NHS_Foundation_Trust

All this is detailed within the British History site, albeit in a rather haphazard manner, see General Infirmaries section.
http://www.british-history.ac.uk/vch/glos/vol4/pp269-275#h3-0002

Thanks Sid for teaching me there were actually two hospitals in the city when I was a regular visitor to Gloster before I moved away from the Forest, I'd never have guessed. I realise this background may not be entirely pertinent to your query, but it's really helped me understand things better !

Anyhow, back to your query regarding Infirmary records !

Some Records are held by Gloucester Archives, see
http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/rd/9c0c229b-4a9f-4876-93b4-728f60d3244e

That page has a link to the Gloucester Archives site, ie
http://www.gloucestershire.gov.uk/archives/article/107703/Archives-Homepage

My quick search for "Hospital Records" produced this document.
http://www.gloucestershire.gov.uk/archives/CHttpHandler.ashx?id=56553&p=0

So it looks like you're best option is to contact Gloucester Archives.
I really hope you get lucky, but given the tremendous amount of re-organisation of local Government and NHS etc that have taken place in Gloster in the last 10 years never mind the last 150+, I suspect a lot of these records may no longer exist. I do hope I'm wrong, please keep us informed on your progress.
Oh, and Good Luck with the Lottery !

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Hi Jeff

Thank you for your reply. You have given me quite a lot of reading to do and I look forward to it.

Sid Toomey

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There is a William Toomey listed as a patient in Gloucester General Infirmary in the 1841 Census. The entry is transcribed Hill Toomey by Ancestry.
If you go to the Gloucestershire Archives Online catalogue http://bit.ly/2cHtyAi and use the search engine you will find over 500 entries for Infirmary but no check made to see if any contain patient's medical records.
Mike

6368 views

Hi

Thank you for your reply.
I had a look and found three files which look very promising . I will post the result if it comes to fruition.

Sid Toomey

6291 views

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