Forest of Dean FHT Forum

Back to the forum index

Linear

Re photo page 61 Cinderford High street
can anyone supply any information about the shop on the right hand side of the photo.
It has the name Burgham on the front and appears to be a butchers. My Great Grandfather Henry Burgham Hails from Cinderford.
Many thanks in anticipation Tony Burgham

8467 views

Re photo page 61 Cinderford High street
can anyone supply any information about the shop on the right hand side of the photo.
It has the name Burgham on the front and appears to be a butchers. My Great Grandfather Henry Burgham Hails from Cinderford.
Many thanks in anticipation Tony Burgham

Name:Thomas E Burgham
Birth Date:abt 1874
Date of Registration:Mar 1942
Age at Death:68
Registration District:Forest of Dean
Inferred County:Gloucestershire
Volume:6a
Page:571

Year: 1942
Month: Feb
Day: 23
Surname: BURGHAM
Forenames: Thomas Edwin
Residence: 108 High Street Cinderford
Age_at_death: 68
Officiating_Minister: A H Cross
Event: Burial
Cause_of_death:
Memoranda:
Notes:
Register_Reference: P85/1 IN 1/15
Page_No: 262
Parish_Chapel: Cinderford St John

--
Ἀριστοτέλης A Gloster & Hereford Boy in the Forest of Dean ><((((*>

8455 views

Crikey S, that was quick, I searched the forum and your reply was there, seems like your break has definitely left you refreshed ! :-)

Here's the photo, thought to be circa 1910.
http://www.forest-of-dean.net/gallery/cinderford/pages/page_61.html
I cannot find any Burgham shopkeepers in the 1902 or 1914 Cinderford Trade Directories.

The shop is opposite the old Royal Union Hotel, so moreorless where the C&G Building Society (iirc) is now.
This Hotel and an excellent Burgam Family website is discussed in this prior thread which is hopefully of interest.
http://www.forum.forest-of-dean.net/index.php?id=35494

Searching out the current 108 High Street suggests to me the numbering system has been changed since 1910, as 108 is now an eatery that doesnt fit in my recollection of the High Street, sadly my sister who works nearby is holidaying so I cannot ask her. For as long as I recall Lloyds Bank, just up from the photographed shop, is number 25 High Street, C&G physically & numerically a few numbers down.
http://www.cinderford-online.co.uk/leisure/eating/
http://www.accessplace.com/banking/gloucestershire/cinderford.htm

Tony, do you have any further information on your grandfather's whereabouts in Cinderford ?

UPDATE:
Think this FoD Baptism is correct for the above Thomas Edwin.

Record_ID: 45622
Entry_Number: 2104
Year: 1873
Month: Nov
Day: 28
Parents_Surname: BURGHAM
Child_Forenames: Thomas Edwin
Fathers_Forenames: Edwin
Mothers_Forenames: Anne Caroline
Mothers_Surname:
Residence: Redbrook
Occupation: Iron Founderer
Officiating_Minister: W Smith
Event: Baptism
Memoranda: PB
Notes: memo in left hand margin
Register_Reference: P227 IN 1/6
Page_Number: 263
Parish_Chapel: Newland
Soundex: B625

I noticed when searching the Forum earlier a strong Burgham prescence in Redbrook, so a little way from Cinderford.

8387 views

Tony, do you have any further information on your grandfather's whereabouts in Cinderford ?

Name:Henry Burgum
Date of Registration:Apr-May-Jun 1876
Registration District:Westbury on Severn
Inferred County:Gloucestershire
Volume:6a
Page:252

1881
Wm. Bingham abt 1857 Redbrook, Monmouth, Wales Head Westbury on Severn - East Dean, Gloucestershire
Anne Bingham abt 1854 Lane End, Gloucestershire, England Wife Westbury on Severn - East Dean, Gloucestershire
Annie F. Bingham abt 1875 Cinderford, Gloucestershire, England Daughter Westbury on Severn - East Dean, Gloucestershire
Henry Bingham abt 1876 Cinderford, Gloucestershire, England Son Westbury on Severn - East Dean, Gloucestershire
Arthur J. Bingham abt 1880 Cinderford, Gloucestershire, England Son Westbury on Severn - East Dean, Gloucestershire

1891 Wesley Rd
William Brigham 37
Ann Brigham 39
Annie Floy Brigham 16
Henry Brigham 15
Arthur G Brigham 11
Oliver G Brigham 5
Archehous Brigham 2

Year: 1896
Month: Mar
Day: 26
Grooms_Surname: BURGHAM
Grooms_Forenames: Henry
Grooms_Age: 21
Groom_Condition: Bachelor
Grooms_Occupation: Agent for machine Co[mpany]
Grooms_Residence: Cinderford
Grooms_Fathers_Surname: Burgham
Grooms_Fathers_Forenames: William
Grooms_Fathers_Occupation: Engineer
Brides_Surname: WHEELER
Brides_Forenames: Annie
Brides_Age: 25
Brides_Condition: Spinster
Brides_Occupation:
Brides_Residence: Cinderford
Brides_Fathers_Surname: Wheeler
Brides_Fathers_Forenames: Joseph
Brides_Fathers_Occupation: Engineer
Licence_or_Banns: Banns
Date_of_Banns: [not stated]
Signature_or_Mark: Both sign
Witness_1: Isaiah Wheeler
Witness_2: Mahala Wheeler
Other_Witnesses: Thyrza Wheeler Joseph Wheeler
Officiating_Minister: Th[oma]s Longstaff vicar
Event: Marriage
Memoranda:
Notes:
Register_Reference: P85/2 1N 1/6
Page_Number: 31
Parish_Chapel: Cinderford St Stephen

1901 Wesley Rd
William Burghane 46
Ann Burghane 48
Arthur Burghane 21
Chris Burghane 15

--
Ἀριστοτέλης A Gloster & Hereford Boy in the Forest of Dean ><((((*>

8336 views

From this site's PRs;

Record_ID: 75631
Entry_Number: 1249
Year: 1877
Month: Mar
Day: 25
Parents_Surname: BURGHAM
Child_Forenames: Henry
Fathers_Forenames: William
Mothers_Forenames: Anne
Mothers_Surname:
Residence: Bilson Green Woodside
Occupation: Fireman
Officiating_Minister: J Phillips Curate
Event: Baptism
Memoranda:
Notes:
Register_Reference: P85/1 IN 1/2
Page_Number: 157
Parish_Chapel: Cinderford St John
Soundex: B625

I think this is Henry's marriage, it appears he's also in the Commercial/selling trade.

Record_ID: 24999
Entry_Number: 61
Year: 1896
Month: Mar
Day: 26
Grooms_Surname: BURGHAM
Grooms_Forenames: Henry
Grooms_Age: 21
Groom_Condition: Bachelor
Grooms_Occupation: Agent for machine Co[mpany]
Grooms_Residence: Cinderford
Grooms_Fathers_Surname: Burgham
Grooms_Fathers_Forenames: William
Grooms_Fathers_Occupation: Engineer
Brides_Surname: WHEELER
Brides_Forenames: Annie
Brides_Age: 25
Brides_Condition: Spinster
Brides_Occupation:
Brides_Residence: Cinderford
Brides_Fathers_Surname: Wheeler
Brides_Fathers_Forenames: Joseph
Brides_Fathers_Occupation: Engineer
Licence_or_Banns: Banns
Date_of_Banns: [not stated]
Signature_or_Mark: Both sign
Witness_1: Isaiah Wheeler
Witness_2: Mahala Wheeler
Other_Witnesses: Thyrza Wheeler Joseph Wheeler
Officiating_Minister: Th[oma]s Longstaff vicar
Event: Marriage
Memoranda:
Notes:
Register_Reference: P85/2 1N 1/6
Page_Number: 31
Parish_Chapel: Cinderford St Stephen
Soundex_Groom: B625
Soundex_Bride: W460

I cannot find an obvious Death on any site including the CWGC site.

8307 views

My G.G.Grandfather William Burgham B.1885 D.1929 (spelt Burgum in 1891 census)lived in Wesley Rd Cinderford. He was married in 1874 to Ann Ruck B.1852
They had five children-
Annie Florence B.1874
Henry B.1876 D.1948. (my great grandfather)
Arthur John B.1879. D.1961.
Oliver B.1885.
Archelous B.1889.D.1894.

Arthur John his wife Marguerreta B.1884 and their daughter Margaretta B.1908 emigrated to Globe Arizona aboard the SS Mauretania departing Liverpool 5th June 1909 arriving in NewYork on 11th June
Arthurs occupation is listed on the ships manifest as a butcher.
They had a son George B.1911 D.1976
Both Arthur and his wife died in 1961 and are buried in Globe cemetery Gila County Arizona.

8238 views

Hi Tony,
thanks so much for confirming your family's history, so by my reading it seems entirely possible the shop in the photograph is indeed Arthur's ?.

If so then his emmigration explains his apparent disappearance off my radar. I hope the trip was considered a worthwhile move, they certainly appeared to have travelled in some style on the world-famous and much-loved RMS Mauretania. As an engineer with a love of all things nautical I find this most interesting, especially as this was one of the first to be built around the new Parsons steam turbines which gave unprecedented speed and reliability.
A great(I hope) family adventure story to pass down thro' the family, yet tempered no doubt by their feelings when her sister ship Lusitania was lost a few years later...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RMS_Mauretania_(1906)
http://www.tyneandweararchives.org.uk/mauretania/story-design.html
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3UnMdHF2_10

If only to satisfy my curiosity, please can you clarify what happened to Henry, was he in the UK for the 1911 Census or did he travel as well ?.

Thanks again, Jeff.

PS You mentioned your GG Grandad lived in Wesley Road. I know it well as I lived nearby in Parragate as a child, mum's still there. Do you by any chance know which house in Wesley Road it was ?. As you probably know its only a short road but there are a couple of very nice substantial old townhouses on it, their long gardens backed onto my best-friend's orchard so we occasionally had to retrieve footballs from them). In later years I found it somewhat ironic that a road presumably named ? after John Wesley was now the address for the Miner's Welfare Hall & Social Club which in my time was one of the best-value hence most popular pubs in town. They wern't choosy who they served in those days ;-), but it was understandably the local Labour Party HQ so why not. Plus of course Mr Wilson was a great one for promoting science & industry so he can't be all bad despite my parents' views.
http://www.forest-of-dean.net/gallery/cinderford_2/pages/page_60.html

The houses I mentioned above are immediate left of the Hall on this picture taken from the entrance to the carpark behind the High Street. Behind & below the Hall is my friend's house just above the site of the old Bilson School.
http://www.forest-and-wye-today.co.uk/featuresdetail.cfm?id=5002

Off now to try and find some history about Wesley Road...

which shows the Miner's Hall was built abt 1929, and quite probably on land previously occupied by houses, just like the carpark opposite it. There were Wesley Chapels in Cinderford long before that as well as the Wesley Church higher up the town built around 1850, so long before the Hall became a "pub".

"The course of Wesleyan Methodism in the Forest owed much to Aaron Goold, a colliery agent and later a colliery owner. Goold, with whose assistance the Littledean Hill and Whitecroft chapels were built, was particularly influential in Cinderford, where a mission room for use by Baptists, Independents, and Methodists was opened with his help in 1829. In 1841, when they had a meeting house at Cinderford bridge, the Wesleyans built a chapel at the Cinderford ironworks, and in 1850 their circuit plan for Ledbury and the Forest also included Wesley, a large chapel in Belle Vue Road built by Goold in a 14th-century style. Opened in 1850, Wesley replaced the Littledean Hill chapel, but with Goold's active espousal of the reform movement within the Wesleyan Methodist Church those loyal to the Wesleyan Conference reopened the older chapel and late in 1850 moved to a cottage in the Mousell Lane area. Goold appointed Wesleyan Reformers to supply the pulpit at Wesley and in 1851 his minister claimed congregations of up to 500." etc

From: 'Forest of Dean: Protestant nonconformity', A History of the County of Gloucester: Volume 5: Bledisloe Hundred, St. Briavels Hundred, The Forest of Dean (1996), pp. 396-404.
URL: http://www.british-history.ac.uk/report.aspx?compid=23273&strquery=cinderford
Date accessed: 30 July 2013.

8386 views

Hi Jeff.
I am afraid i do not know what no Wesley Rd. Henry lived at.
By the time of the 1901 census he was living at117 Tredworth Rd. Gloucester with his family. occupation oilcake pressman

Harry Burgham B. 19th March 1876 D.3rd November 1948
Annie Burgham (Nee Wheeler) B.1871 d. 1951
Vincent Norman Henry B.1896 d.1985 (my grandfather)
Doris B.1898
Cecil Alexander B.1889
Leslie Arthur B.1902

By the time of the 1911 census they had moved to Liverpool and lived at 171 Northbrook st.Toxteth Park.
Henry (Harry) then moved to 6 Edale Rd. Wavetree where he died in 1948. He is buried in Allerton Cemetery Liverpool.
He spent his working life in Liverpool as a foreman in the African oil mills

8076 views

My father told told me that his Grandmother Annie had been a school teacher in FOD before her marriage to Henry but i have never been able to verify this.

8108 views

Assuming Annie was at a Cinderford school, if any, then you may well find this excellent FoD website interesting, among many other things it has a very detailed history of Cinderford's schools.
http://way-mark.co.uk/foresthaven/livnhist/0liked20.htm

Also
http://website.lineone.net/~glb1/cinderford/bilson.htm

8199 views

Hi Tony,
thanks for your reply. "Oil cake pressman" intrigues me (I'm an overcurious engineer), do you know what that was ?. Searching tinternet tells me that people can bake "oil cakes" using olive oil etc, but I wonder if the industrial description on this site is closer the mark, altho probably not wrt fish canning !??
http://www.intheirwords.ca/english/canning_herring_cooking.html
Tredworth historically had many mills (maize oil?) so perhaps Henry was at one of those ??
http://www.bartonandtredworth.org.uk/page_id__200_path__0p2p.aspx

In fact this seems a much more likely employer to me, wotyereckon ?
http://www.gloucesterdocks.me.uk/gloucester/warehouses/fosterbrosmill.htm

-------------------------

I'm even more intrigued by them moving quite a distance upto Toxteth Park around 1910, yes I noticed that placename during my browsing, maybe it was your Henry.
It stuck in my mind because, for no obviously-apparent reason, my greatgrandad moved his family there from the Forest in time for the 1901 Census, but had all returned bar one son by the 1911 (maybe not coincidence that when that 1911 "solicitor's clerk" returned 20 years later he was consider very welltodo, even had "the first car in the village"). During my researches trying to find a link I've found a few others in Toxteth with Forest links which seemed odd to me, I assume someone in the Forest was promoting the area for work etc, I'd love to learn more if anyone knows please ??.

Thanks again Jeff

??

http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/LAN/ToxtethPark/#Description
http://historic-liverpool.co.uk/toxteth

ps oops, just saw your ps wrt oil mills !

8262 views

There are a number of valuable oils and fats recovered by crushing vegetable seeds. Vegetable oils are often called 'fatty oils', they have a similar make up the vegetable fats but are liquid at normal British temperatures whereas the 'fats' are solid (generally 'normal' is taken as fifteen degrees Celsius). As many of the plants used do not grow in Britain the seed crushing works were usually built in or close to large docks to facilitate imports.

The materials handled included soya beans, linseed (from the UK, Argentina, India and Canada), cotton seed (from Egypt, India and Greece) and peanuts (which they called 'groundnuts' from West Africa). All these oils were sold both for use in foods (human and animal) and for use in industrial products such as lubricating oil, soaps, varnishes, printing inks, and paints. Most of the residual fibrous material (they called it 'cake') was sold in slabs as animal feeds, some was taken to provender mills where it was mixed with grain and other additives to produce a range of balanced animal feeds known as 'compound feed' sold in hessian sacks.

When i was a kid in the 1950`s my grandfather Vincent (Henry's son) who also worked at the African oil mills used to bring home peanuts and we would roast them in front of the fire

regarding the house no in Wesley RD. I have had a look at the 1911 census and it states private house, no of rooms 4 so what i would call a 2 up 2 down. Not very grand!
Tony

8128 views

Thanks Tony, very interesting indeed. You were clearly given a good grounding (NO pun intended) by your grandad or perhaps you followed him into the business, eitherway always good to learn a little as so often happens here. Presumably the pressing process was to crush & extract the oil, or perhaps to "mould" the product into the cake, which I do know of wrt animal feeds. Eitherway getting beyond the scope of this forum so best leave it there.

Re the house on Wesley Road, most of that road is now occupied by the Miners Hall one side and the carpark opposite, but I easily found a photo online of a similar house on Wesley Road Cinderford. It's currently on the market so I'll send you the link by direct email as this site understandably won't permit it. The house is at the lower end of Wesley Road where it meets Station Street, the camera view is looking down the hill away from the town centre towards Valley Road & the old railway station area. Immediately to the right on the photo is the larger Edwardian semi townhouse I mentioned yesterday, then the Miners Hall.
The terraced house we own in West London is a similar ex-council 2up/2down built in 1914, perhaps a little wider as we have a hall next to the staircase. They were extensively modernised in later years including replacing the old outside lean-to WC with a brick larder extension and dividing the backbedroom to allow a proper bathroom. We thought it quite small and definitely not grand at all; until we visited a friend's newbuild starterhome c2000 which was 1/2 the size of ours, frontdoor straight into a tiny lounge, etc. Not sure about progress, nowadays our house is apparently considered quite "spacious" and clearly a good buy 20 years ago !

Cheers, Jeff

LATER UPDATE:

Tony, re the aforementioned Foster Bros Oil & Cake Mill in Gloucester, have you seen this article from the Journal paper of 1904,
http://www.coaley.net/indglos_1904/ig190440.pdf
Excellent website about Industrial Gloster, new to me but promises interesting reading.
http://www.coaley.net/indglos_1904/index.php

8131 views

Searching the net for the above phrase gave this website about the Burgham family, it very helpfully collects together Burgham households all around the Forest.

It shows an Alfred Burgham born abt 1837 as butcher in Lydbrook in 1871 & 1881 Census. Could this be an ancestor of the Cinderford butcher ?.
http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~bfhs/census.html

Meanwhile this Burgham family site also shows perhaps all UK Burghams in the 1901 Census (spelt Burgham that is):

"Arthur Burgham 21 Cinderford Glos Gloucestershire East Dean Butchers Assistant b. 1880"

Who I think is perhaps the eventual proprietor of the aforementioned Cinderford shop.
Although the above site lists seven Burghams in Cinderford, it doesn't present them as households. It refers to a separate site for Burgams, which shows none in Cinderford.
http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~bfhs/census2.html

The Ancestry free search page suggests this Arthur is the same as listed in Slowhands' post above wrt 1881 & 1891 Census.
I cannot find him in the 1911 (so much like his brother Henry in that respect !, had they gone off to War albeit it rather early). I've searched best I can without success...

From GlosBMD:

Birth Details

Child Surname Child Forename Father Surname Mother Surname Mother's Former Name Year District Office Register Entry
BURGHAM Arthur John BURGHAM BURGHAM RUCK 1879 Forest of Dean Westbury on Severn, Newnham 46 27

Marriage Details

Groom Surname Groom Forename Bride Surname Bride Forename District Parish Building Year Register Entry
BURGHAM Arthur John HOLDER Margueretta Esther Forest of Dean Drybrook Holy Trinity 1906 4 161

From this site's PRs:

Record_ID: 19868
Entry_Number: 161
Year: 1906
Month: Dec
Day: 31
Grooms_Surname: BURGHAM
Grooms_Forenames: Arthur John
Grooms_Age: 27
Groom_Condition: Bachelor
Grooms_Occupation: Butcher
Grooms_Residence: Steam Mills
Grooms_Fathers_Surname: Burgham
Grooms_Fathers_Forenames: William
Grooms_Fathers_Occupation: Engineer
Brides_Surname: HOLDER
Brides_Forenames: Margueretta Esther
Brides_Age: 22
Brides_Condition: Spinster
Brides_Occupation: [not stated]
Brides_Residence: Steam Mills
Brides_Fathers_Surname: Holder
Brides_Fathers_Forenames: George
Brides_Fathers_Occupation: Licenced Victualler
Licence_or_Banns: Banns
Date_of_Banns: [not stated]
Signature_or_Mark: both sign
Witness_1: George Holder
Witness_2: Mary C J Brain
Other_Witnesses: Frederick Whittington Hook
Officiating_Minister: James Lawton Vicar
Event: Marriage
Memoranda:
Notes:
Register_Reference: P109 IN 1/9
Page_Number: 81
Parish_Chapel: Drybrook
Soundex_Groom: B625
Soundex_Bride: H436

I wonder if this is his Death record, not too far away ?

Surname Given Name Age District Volume Page Transcriber
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Deaths Mar 1960
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
BURGHAM John A. 83 Pontypool 8c 286 PLabott

8386 views

Tony

I've just scanned a postcard of Cinderford High Street I have in an album, it is postmarked 12 July 1912. Although similar to the existing photo it shows a little more of the shop to the right of the picture. As the shop has two sides of meat hanging outside, I can confirm it is definitely a butcher! The name on the sign above the awning reads Cinderford Meat Stores, I can't make out what is written underneath that. There is also a Telephone sign on the wall of the shop, high up, which didn't appear in the previous picture.

I have emailed the picture for addition to the FOD photo archive together with a little info about the telephone system in 1912. I hope this helps.

8231 views

RSS Feed of thread

powered by my little forum