Rose-In-Hand, Drybrook - Forest of Dean FHT Forum

My G-Grandparents William Griffiths and Emma (nee Brain)were shown living at "Rose-In-Hand" Ruardean Hill. Would this be the name of the house or a street name? Could anyone shed any light on this for me?

My Grandfather Albert Griffiths b.1890 Ruardean Hill left to follow his brother John Brian to work in the mines at Royston, Barnsley. Albert died in 1946 while my father was still young, he never talked about his Forest of Dean family. My Uncle Albert can remember his father (Albert) taking him to the family home on Farm Lane, Ruardean. He also tells a tale of my grandfathers brother Joseph Griffiths b. 1893 who apparently had an arguement over money and the house with his father William Griffiths. Joseph is supposed to have burned the family home to the ground and promptly emmigrated to Australia. Their sister May b. 1899 was supposed to be the only one who knew where he was. Wether this is true or not I have yet to find out. An interesting tale though.

Jane Easter (Nee Griffiths)

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marked as Rose Inn near Ash Farm

http://www.old-maps.co.uk/

co ords 363590,217595

more that a house !

http://www.easywell.co.uk/pubs/

Rose in Hand, Morse Lane GL17 9BE

Referred to in 1823. An earlier reference simply calls the pub 'the house.’.
In 1903 it was owned by Lloyd & Co., probably Lloyd & Yorath Cambrian Brewery,
Newport, Monmouthshire. The Rose in Hand is located on an unclassified road
to the west of Drybrook. It is a very simple traditional building with a simple pub
sign indicating that it is still a free house.

Map Reference: SO 635175
Owner in 1891: E. Vaughan (free from brewery tie)
Rateable value in 1891:
Type of licence in 1891: Alehouse
Owner in 1903: Lloyd & Co (free from brewery tie) Lloyd & Yorath Cambrian Brewery?
Rateable value in 1903: £13.10s.0d.
Type of licence in 1903:
Closing time in 1903:
Present status: Still trading
Phone:

Landlords:
1885 John Brain
1891 William Griffiths
1902,1903,1906 Thomas Baldwin
1919 Edith Maud Garnsworthy (Mrs)
1927 Thomas H. Nicklen
1977-1997(approx.) Tony Ryan
1998 Sally Smith

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Thankyou!

I see on the info you gave me the previous landlord to my G-Grandfather was John Brain do you think it's too much of a coincidence that Williams' wife was Emma Griffiths nee Brain?

Regards,

Jane

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1841 ?
James Bearn abt 1817 Gloucestershire, England Ruardean Gloucestershire
Ann Bearn abt 1818 Gloucestershire, England Ruardean Gloucestershire
Child Bearn abt 1841 Gloucestershire, England Ruardean Gloucestershire
Elizabeth Mathwes abt 1813 Gloucestershire, England Ruardean Gloucestershire

1851
James Brain abt 1817 Ruardean, Gloucestershire, England Head Ruardean Gloucestershire
Ann Brain abt 1814 East Dean, Gloucestershire, England Wife Ruardean Gloucestershire
Elizabeth Brain abt 1849 Ruardean, Gloucestershire, England Daughter Ruardean
Sarah Harris abt 1838 Ruardean, Gloucestershire, England Wife's Daur (Step Daughter) Ruardean Gloucestershire

1861
James Brain abt 1816 Ruardean Hill, Gloucestershire, England Head East Dean Gloucestershire
Ann Brain abt 1817 Ruardean Hill, Gloucestershire, England Wife East Dean Gloucestershire
Elizabeth Brain abt 1851 Ruardean Hill, Gloucestershire, England Daughter East Dean Gloucestershire
Emma Brain abt 1855 Ruardean Hill, Gloucestershire, England Daughter East Dean Gloucestershire
James Brain abt 1846 Ruardean Hill, Gloucestershire, England Son East Dean Gloucestershire
John Brain abt 1841 Ruardean Hill, Gloucestershire, England Son East Dean Gloucestershire
Joseph Brain abt 1850 Ruardean Hill, Gloucestershire, England Son East Dean Gloucestershire
Moses Brain abt 1843 Ruardean Hill, Gloucestershire, England Son East Dean Gloucestershire
Timothy Brain abt 1860 Ruardean Hill, Gloucestershire, England Son East Dean Gloucestershire
William Brain abt 1848 Ruardean Hill, Gloucestershire, England Son East Dean Gloucestershire

1871
James Brain abt 1816 East Dean, Gloucestershire, England Head East Dean Gloucestershire
Ann Brain abt 1818 Ruardean, Gloucestershire, England Wife East Dean Gloucestershire
Emma Brain J abt 1856 East Dean, Gloucestershire, England Daughter East Dean Gloucestershire

1881 Westbury On Severn - East Dean Gloucestershire
James Brain abt 1847 East Dean, Gloucestershire, England Head
Fanny Brain abt 1850 East Dean, Gloucestershire, England Wife
Ellen Brain abt 1875 East Dean, Gloucestershire, England Daughter
Minnie Brain abt 1876 East Dean, Gloucestershire, England Daughter
Tom Brain abt 1878 East Dean, Gloucestershire, England Son
Emma Brain abt 1856 East Dean, Gloucestershire, England Sister

Name:William Griffiths
Name: Emma Brain
Year of Registration: 1881
Quarter of Registration: Oct-Nov-Dec
District: Westbury On Severn
County: Gloucestershire
Volume: 6a
Page: 504

1891
William Griffiths abt 1859 Ruardean Hill; E Dean Head Ruardean Gloucestershire
Emma Griffiths William abt 1858 Ruardean Hill; E Dean Wife Ruardean Gloucestershire
Albert Griffiths abt 1890 Ruardean Hill; E Dean Son Ruardean Gloucestershire
John B Griffiths abt 1884 Ruardean Hill; E Dean Son Ruardean Gloucestershire
William Griffiths abt 1888 Ruardean Hill; E Dean Son Ruardean Gloucestershire

1901
William Griffiths abt 1858 East Dean, Gloucestershire, England Head Ruardean Herefordshire
Emma Griffithsabt 1857 East Dean, Gloucestershire, England Wife Ruardean Herefordshire
Albert Griffiths abt 1890 Ruardean, Gloucestershire, England Son Ruardean Herefordshire
Frank Griffiths abt 1899 Ruardean, Gloucestershire, England Son Ruardean Herefordshire
Joseph Griffiths abt 1894 Ruardean, Gloucestershire, England Son Ruardean Herefordshire
May Griffiths abt 1894 Ruardean, Gloucestershire, England Daughter Ruardean Herefordshire
William Griffiths abt 1888 Ruardean, Gloucestershire, England Son Ruardean Herefordshire

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According to the parish records for my G Grandfather, his father was also a publican on Morse Lane around 1872, could this be the same public house, The Rose in Hand?

Record_ID: 15026
Entry Number: 80
Year: 1872
Month: Sep
Day: 8
Parents Surname: REED
Child Forenames: Arthur
Father's Forenames: Richard
Mother's Forenames: Harriett
Mother's Surname:
Place of Residence: Morse Lane
Occupation: Publican
Officiating Minister: William Barker Vicar
Event type: Baptism
Memoranda:
Notes:
Register Reference: PFC109 IN 1/4
Page No: 10
Parish_Chapel: Drybrook
Soundex: R300

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The family is certainly living west of Drybrook towards Ruardean in this period.
No evidence that it is the Rose other than Morse Lane, and equally nothing to identify that they are living in another pub.

1871 Grocery Shop on Ruardean Hill
Reed Reed abt 1843 East Dean, Gloucestershire, England Head East Dean, Gloucestershire
Harriet Reed abt 1846 East Dean, Gloucestershire, England Wife East Dean, Gloucestershire
Albert Reed abt 1866 East Dean, Gloucestershire, England Son East Dean, Gloucestershire
Birtha Reed abt 1864 East Dean, Gloucestershire, England Daughter East Dean, Gloucestershire
Mary Ama Reed abt 1868 East Dean, Gloucestershire, England Daughter East Dean, Gloucestershire
Roseanna Reed abt 1870 East Dean, Gloucestershire, England Daughter East Dean, Gloucestershire
Willa R Reed abt 1871 East Dean, Gloucestershire, England Son East Dean, Gloucestershire

1881 Ruardean Rd
Richard Reed abt 1841 East Dean, Gloucestershire, England Head Westbury On Severn - East Dean, Gloucestershire Miner and Publican
Harriett Reed abt 1843 East Dean, Gloucestershire, England Wife Westbury On Severn - East Dean, Gloucestershire
Albert Reedabt 1866 East Dean, Gloucestershire, England Son Westbury On Severn - East Dean, Gloucestershire
Alfred Reed abt 1880 East Dean, Gloucestershire, England Son Westbury On Severn - East Dean, Gloucestershire
Arthur Reed abt 1873 East Dean, Gloucestershire, England Son Westbury On Severn - East Dean, Gloucestershire
Bertha Reed abt 1864 East Dean, Gloucestershire, England Daughter Westbury On Severn - East Dean, Gloucestershire
Evan Miles Reed abt 1877 East Dean, Gloucestershire, England Son Westbury On Severn - East Dean, Gloucestershire
Flora Annie Reedabt 1874 East Dean, Gloucestershire, England Daughter Westbury On Severn - East Dean, Gloucestershire
Julia Harriet Reed abt 1875 East Dean, Gloucestershire, England Daughter Westbury On Severn - East Dean, Gloucestershire
Mary Ann Reed abt 1868 East Dean, Gloucestershire, England Daughter Westbury On Severn - East Dean, Gloucestershire
Rhoda Della Reed abt 1879 East Dean, Gloucestershire, England Daughter Westbury On Severn - East Dean, Gloucestershire
Rose Ann Reed abt 1870 East Dean, Gloucestershire, England Daughter Westbury On Severn - East Dean, Gloucestershire
William Reed abt 1872 East Dean, Gloucestershire, England Son Westbury On Severn - East Dean, Gloucestershire

--
Ἀριστοτέλης A Gloster & Hereford Boy in the Forest of Dean ><((((*>

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Thanks for all that info. The only information I have been able to get is from Parish Records which has my G Grandfathers (Arthur Reed) whereabouts and his fathers occupation as;

1871 - Provision Dealer - The Farm
1872 - Publican - Morse Lane
1873 - Inn Keeper - Morse Lane
1875 - Inn Keeper - Morse Lane
1876 - Coal Miner - Harry Hill

Other members of my family (on the Reed side) have done more detailed searches into their family tree and discovered that it may have been Harriet Reed who actually ran the public house while her husband Richard worked as a coal miner. How true this is I don't know.

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landlords of the Rose-in-Hand during the fifties and early sixties were Pat Browning folowed by Harold(Shaver)Cook.

gerrym (a customer at that time)

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The Rose In Hand Public House was in a little lane off the Morse Lane in Drybrook. My father drank there often as my parents lived for about 50 years in Quabbs Road and Morse Lane. My mother is still alive and I will ask her if she knows more details.

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junction of Morse Lane and Well Lane (?)

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Hi Lefram, Do you know where I can get a photo of the rose in hand pub, the older the better. thanks marmac.

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Thank you Jane (and Slowhands – as ever). An interesting item, that I have gained from and can add to, my main interest is the Marfell family and they are involved here :
(1) James Brain was baptised 15.2.1816 Ruardean Non Conformist Church, son of John Brain & Elizabeth Knight. The Elizabeth Matthews shown on the 1841 Census is James’s wife Ann’s sister. James married Ann Matthews baptised 3.8.1817 at Westbury 23.8.1840, they had 8 children, including - James born 1847 who married Fanny Hatton 10.8.1873, they had 4 children including Minnie Maria Brain who married John Marfell. Another of James Brain & Fanny’s children Tom Brain born 1878 married Eva Annie Matthews, they had a daughter Marjorie Fanny Brain who married Orlando John Marfell, son of John Marfell & Minnie Maria Brain. I will submit a titled picture of John Marfell, Minnie nee Brain and family taken at Euroclydon, it includes Orlando John .

(2) The Thomas Baldwin born 1849 shown as landlord of the Bird in Hand 1902,1903,1906 is actually there on the 1901 Census :

1901 Census Ruardean
Thomas Baldwin 50 Inn keeper Bird in Hand. East Dean
Sarah A 45 East Dean
Emily 20 East Dean
William 17 East Dean
Lilian 14 Hope Mansell
Edith 12 Hope Mansell
Damaris 10 Hope Mansell
Ivy 4 Ruardean
Emily Williams grddtr 3 Ruardean

Thomas and Sarah Ann had a daughter Florence A, shown below on the 1881 Census :

1881 Census
Dwelling: New Road Hangerberry
Census Place: West Dean, Gloucester, England
Thomas BALDWIN M 32 M Ruardean, Gloucester, England
Rel: Head Occ: Gen Labr
Sarah Ann BALDWIN M 26 F Ruardean, Gloucester, England
Rel: Wife
Florance A. BALDWIN 5 F Ruardean, Gloucester, England
Rel: Daur Occ: Scholar
Emily E. BALDWIN 3 F Ruardean, Gloucester, England
Rel: Daur Occ: Scholar
Sarah A. MABLER 13 F Ruardean, Gloucester, England
Rel: Serv Occ: Gen Servant

Florence A Baldwin married Hedley Williams whose grandparents were Thomas Williams & Sarah Marfell. Hedley Williams had a brother Thomas who married twice (1) Eva Marfell 1885 & (2) Winifred Marfell 1894. Eva & Winifred were sisters, Eva died.

Is it possible to be specific about the John Brain who was landlord of the Bird in Hand. Emma’s brother John is shown on the census as Coal Miner 1891 & retired Coal Miner 1901

Jim Ashton

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I'm sure we dont have family trees in the Forest , more like family tapestries !

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I found John Brain at Rose in Hand on 1881 Census

Name: John Brain
Age: 57
Estimated birth year: abt 1824
Relation: Head
Spouse's name: Sarah
Gender: Male
Where born: Ruardean, Gloucestershire, England
Civil parish: Ruardean
County/Island: Gloucestershire
Country: England
Street address: The Morse (Rose IN Hand)
Condition as to marriage: Married
Education:
Employment status: View image
Occupation: Licenced Victualler
Registration district: Ross
Sub-registration district: Ross
ED, institution, or vessel: 12
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
Annie Brain 20
John Brain 57
Sarah Brain 56

Also 1871 Census

Name: John Brain
Age: 47
Estimated birth year: abt 1824
Relation: Head
Spouse's name: Sarah
Gender: Male
Where born: Ruardean, Gloucestershire, England
Civil parish: Ruardean
County/Island: Herefordshire
Country: England
Street address: Barrister/Barnister??
Occupation: Haulier
Condition as to marriage:
Disability: View image
Registration district: Ross
Sub-registration district: Ross
ED, institution, or vessel: 13
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 36
Household Members: Name Age
Edward Addis 20 (Carter)
Lucy Baldwin 12 (Servant)
Ann Brain 10
John Brain 47
John James Brain 6
Sarah Brain 46

1861 Census

Name: John Brain
Age: 36
Estimated birth year: abt 1825
Relation: Head
Spouse's name: Sarah
Gender: Male
Where born: Ruardean, Gloucestershire, England
Civil parish: Ruardean
County/Island: Gloucestershire
Country: England
Street address:
Occupation:
Condition as to marriage: View image
Registration district: Ross
Sub-registration district: Ross
ED, institution, or vessel: 7
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 115
Household Members: Name Age
Ann Brain 7 Mo
Cornelius Brain 13
John Brain 36
Sarah Brain 35

1851 Census

Name: John Brain
Age: 27
Estimated birth year: abt 1824
Relation: Head
Spouse's name: Sarah
Gender: Male
Where born: Mosse East Deane, Gloucestershire, England
Civil parish: East Dean
Ecclesiastical parish: Holy Trinity
County/Island: Gloucestershire
Country: England
Street address:
Occupation: Labourer
Condition as to marriage:
Disability: View image
Registration district: Westbury On Severn
Sub-registration district: Newnham
ED, institution, or vessel: 3b
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 7
Household Members: Name Age
Cornelius Brain 3
Elizabeth Brain 1 Mo
John Brain 27
Sarah Brain 27

1891 Census

Name: John Brain
Age: 66
Estimated birth year: abt 1825
Relation: Head
Spouse's name: Sarah
Gender: Male
Where born: Ruardean, Gloucestershire, England

Civil parish: Ruardean
Ecclesiastical parish: Ruardean
Town: Ruardean
County/Island: Gloucestershire
Country: England

Street address: Morse Lane

Occupation: Haulier

Condition as to marriage:

Education:

Employment status: View image

Registration district: Ross
Sub-registration district: Ross
ED, institution, or vessel: 15
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
Annie Brain 30
John Brain 66
Sarah Brain 65
Clare Deane 4
Harry Deane 8
John Deane 2
Kate Deane 6

1901 Census

Name: John Brain
Age: 77
Estimated birth year: abt 1824
Relation: Son-in-law
Gender: Male
Where born: Morse Lane, Gloucestershire, England
Civil parish: East Dean
Ecclesiastical parish: Holy Trinity
Town: Middle Village
County/Island: Gloucestershire
Country: England
Street address:
Occupation:
Condition as to marriage:
Education:
Employment status: View image
Registration district: Westbury on Severn
Sub-registration district: East Dean
ED, institution, or vessel: 6
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 120
Household Members: Name Age
John Brain 77
John Dean 12
Alfred Ernest Symonds 6
Annie Symonds 40
William Symonds 43
William Symonds 8

Yet to find a link with him to Emma.

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another Cornelius BRAIN, I sniff a link to Enos BRAIN and family ....

Year 1824
Month Jun
Day 6
Parents Surname BRAIN
Child Forename(s) John
Father's Forename(s) Cornelius
Mother's Forename(s) Ann
Mother's Surname
Place of Residence Morse
Occupation Husbandman
Officiating Minister T. D. Fosbroke Min[iste]r
Event type Baptism

1841 Morse Lane ??
Corneilus Brain abt 1791 Gloucestershire, England Ruardean Gloucestershire

Name: John Brain
Name: Sarah Bennet
Year of Registration: 1846
Quarter of Registration: Jul-Aug-Sep
District: Westbury On Severn
County: Gloucestershire
Volume: 11
Page: 637

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Are all the Brain family in Ruardean related? :0)

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its woven like the fabric of a tapestry !

CORNELIUS BRAIN
---------------------------------------------------
Marriages:
Spouse: ANN BRAIN
Marriage: 17 MAY 1820 Newland, Gloucester, England
------------------------------------
Messages:
Extracted marriage record for locality listed in the record.
The source records are usually arranged chronologically by the marriage date.
-------------------------------------------------
Source Information:
Batch No.: Dates: Source Call No.: Type: Printout Call No.: Type:
M036201 1754 - 1851 0856960 Film 6911883 Film
Sheet: 00

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Hi Jane & Slowhands

Slowhands right again – would you expect otherwise.
John Brain baptised 6.6.1824 Is related (3rd cousin) to Enos Brain born 8.11.1821 baptised 13.2.1822 son of James Brain & Sarah Drew who married Mary in 1846, but NOT related to Enos Brain baptised 30.9.1838 son of James Brain & Mary Herbert who married Emma Fields this Enos is the one who was murdered in America and whose murderer got away with it.

John Brain baptised 6.6.1824 had a brother Cornelius baptised 30.10.1830 who married Anne Tommey Brain born 20.12.1835 baptised 1.1.1936 daughter of Thomas Brain & Mary Ann Bennett. Cornelius 1830 & Anne Tommey Brain were the parents of Francis William Thomas Brain born 28.10.1855 Hope Mansell, who became a Mining Engineer and was Knighted. He was involved with Thomas Bennett Brain owner of Trafalgar Mine (and the person who had Euroclydon built with a tower so he could see his mine). It was Francis William Thomas Brain who had been associated with the use of electric floodlights on the Severn Bridge in 1879 where they had been used to enable construction work to continue at night to make the best use of the tides. After use on the bridge, the apparatus, consisting of a couple of powerful lamps supplied by a Gramme machine, was re-erected at Trafalgar on the surface to light the colliery yard, and a football match was even played at night! Francis William Thomas Brain was also connected with the Electric Blasting Apparatus Company who made fuses for simultaneous shot firing underground, and had buildings close to Trafalgar Colliery.

In answer to Jane’s question regarding the connection between John Brain baptised 6.6.1824 and her ancestor Emma Griffiths 1855 nee Brain, they were 3rd cousins once removed. My computer works this out not me !! A web far too tangled to unravel here, so I will communicate with Jane separately by email.

Finally, Slowhands has shown the 1846 registration details for John Brain & Sarah Bennett, I can add that this marriage took place at Flaxley 6.7.1846.

Jim Ashton

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Thanks Jim for adding the interesting background info :-)

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To Jim and Slowhands,

I'm overwhelmed how much help you have given me over the last couple of days, not to mention very grateful. Now my task is to correctly enter it in my tree!

I never knew my dads family and he never spoke of them so finding details and stories through you and this website is wonderful.

Thanks again!

Jane.

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Forest of Dean FHT Forum

Rose-In-Hand, Drybrook (General)

Rose-In-Hand Public House , Morse Lane Drybrook

Rose-In-Hand Public House , Morse Lane Drybrook

Emma GRIFFITHS (nee BRAIN) 1857 Ruardean Hill

Rose-In-Hand Public House , Morse Lane Drybrook

Richard REED Publican

Richard REED Publican

Rose-In-Hand Public House , Morse Lane Drybrook

Rose-In-Hand, Ruardean

Rose-In-Hand, Ruardean

Rose-In-Hand, Ruardean

Rose-In-Hand, Ruardean

Rose-In-Hand, Ruardean

Rose-In-Hand, Ruardean

John BRAIN 1824 ( Son of) Cornelius (-> Enos Brain ?)

Cornelius -> Enos Brain ?

Cornelius -> Enos Brain ?

Cornelius -> Enos Brain ?

Cornelius -> Enos Brain ?

Cornelius -> Enos Brain ?