i camped at the bracelands campsite christchurch coleford gl16 7nn i stoped there for 3 days.i thought it was a bit costly they wanted £17.50 a night but i got it down to £13.50 because i was over 60.the toilet blocks are old and smelly. i visited all saint's church in newland this is where george jenkins married sarah beach in 1773 his son james jenkins was baptised her in 1793 and he married susannah phipps here in 1817 and his son george married caroline price here in 1844.i was able to go inside the church and take some video.this church is very important to the jenkins family and i am sure lots of the family were baptised here and buried here too.will post more later on. Colin

High

I am sorry your visit to the Forest was not very comfortable.

George is linked to my family I have a tree on Ancestry

I would be willing to share information with you.

Kind Regards

Tony Jenkins

hi tony,thank you for your kind offer.i would love to know more about the jenkins family.when i have a bit more time will post more of my vist to the forset hopefuly today.i know it wont mean much, but my uncle Leslie jenkins died today aged 87

Hi

Do you have access to Ancestry My Jenkins tree is there.

Kind Regards

Tony Jenkins

Condolences on the loss of your uncle.

thank you

good day to you tony.i am new on this site,where would i find ancestry. regards Colin

Its not part of this site ,.....

http://www.ancestry.co.uk

--
Ἀριστοτέλης A Gloster Boy in the Forest of Dean ><((((*>

Hello Tony,

My 4th great grandmother is Hester Jenkins--I believe she is the Hester Jenkins baptized in Newland in April 1805, whose parents were Ann and William. She had a daughter, Esther Elliss, whose father was William Elliss. I have not found a marriage record for Hester Jenkins and William Elliss, or a death record for William. Later Hester married James Coleman, a shopkeeper in Lydbrook. I have not found their marriage record either. Hester Coleman died in 1847 at age 42 and was buried at Newland. Her daughter married Joseph Cooper of Lydbrook in 1856, and died later that year in childbirth. Esther's daughter, Esther Cooper, survived and was raised by her father and his second wife, Fanny Coleman. Esther Cooper married Richard Yemm and they raised their children in English Bicknor and Worrall Hill in Lydbrook. Their children all immigrated to the United States; daughter Esther Yemm is my great-grandmother. (Esther Yemm's husband, Arthur George, is also a Forester, whose family came from Anchorberry/Lydbrook.)

I provide this history in part because you mentioned in a post (which I cannot now find) that a Hester Jenkins is your 4th ggrandmother (I believe), and I would like to learn if my Hester is connected to your Hester. Also, you have mentioned in several posts that you have a tree on ancestry. Can I access that through my U.S. ancestry.com account? I will be visiting the Forest with my mother in May 1915, and I would love to learn what I can about the Jenkins family in my line before traveling there. It's not truly a research visit, but we do hope to visit the places our ancestors lived and died.

Thanks in advance for any help you can provide.

Best,
Terri Jensen

????? Not sure how you know, Hester was nee JENKINS

?? On Hester ELLISS marriage in 1856 to Joseph COOPER, her father's occupation is illegible. Do you have a copy of this marriage as this might give her father's occupation clearer.

Fod Records

William ELLIS (Widower) married Mary JENKINS - 30 May 1812, Newland

William ELLIS married Hester JAMES - 25 May 1831 - Glos St Mary de Lobe

Gloucestershire Baptism Index CD

Esther ELLIS christened at Glos St Mary de lobe - 1 January 1832

parents: William (occupation, Painter) and Esther : residence, Kingsholm

(can't see any other baptism for William - occupation Painter, and Esther)

Esther COOPER was buried 6 September 1856 aged 24 = c1832

------

also the above birth on Ancestry, Select Births and christenings - father's occupation not listed on this transcript

The Public Members' tree - don't appear to have either Hester ELLIS (mother) - or Esther ELLIS - aged 19 on 1851 census) on the 1841 census. James COLEMAN on the 1841 census isn't listed either. Hester COLEMAN was living in Coleford when she was buried in 1847.

----

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1851 Census, Lydbrook

James COLEMAN (Widower) - age 70 (=c1781)- Grocer and Tea maker, born Longhope ***
Esther ELLIS - stepdaughter - 19 - born Longhope

---

*** Fod Records

Marriage by Licence at Church - 26 June 1808

James COLEMAN of Longhope married Hannah SMITH

Baptism at Longhope - 9 july 1809

Mary Ann COLEMAN, parents James & Hannah

MP Griffiths, thank you so much for your reply and the info from the Gloucestershire Baptism Index CD. Many interesting hints here to follow up on and perhaps unstick my research!

1. I do not have any documents to prove that Hester was nee JENKINS. That connection came from family anecdotal evidence. My great-grandmother, Esther YEMM(who lived to be 101!), often recited her family line (those for whom she was named) as: Esther COOPER (mother), Esther ELLISS (grandmother), Hester JENKINS (great-grandmother). (She always emphasized the "H" in Hester!). I have records connecting YEMM to COOPER to ELLISS. (And I have a sampler that was stitched by Esther Elliss dated October 1840; hence I've used the two "s" spelling.) But the connection to JENKINS is all indirect or circumstantial.

2. The marriage record I have from the GRO shows that Joseph COOPER (age 27) married Esther ELLISS (23) (no "H", two esses) on May 3d, 1856, at Newland. Joseph COOPER, a bachelor, lived at Lydbrook at the time of marriage, his father was William COOPER, a farmer. Esther ELLISS lived at Crossways at the time of marriage, her father was William ELLISS, a painter. The Witnesses were William JENKINS and Mary COOPER.

3. The 1 Jan 1832 christening for Esther ELLIS you found at Glos St Mary de lobe with parents William ELLIS the painter and mother Esther is promising. I have not heard of Kingsholm, so will have to investigate that further, as well as the marriage to Hester JAMES, also at Glos St Mary de lobe. New location, new surname--that's an interesting new twist to work out!

4. The only information I have connecting Esther ELLISS with James COLEMAN is the 1851 census you cite, where she is listed as his stepdaughter. (They lived in Lydbrook, the residence of Joseph COOPER, her future husband.) That led me to Hester COLEMAN, who was buried in Newland in 1847. All these are connections are tenuous-- leaps that may be wrong.

5. The GRO records show that Esther COOPER died 3 September 1856 at Lydbrook, was the wife of Joseph COOPER, gave birth one week earlier to a daughter, Esther COOPER, and that her maiden name was Esther ELLISS.

Thanks again for your time and this helpful information. I will keep digging and repost as I learn more.

Terri Jensen

Will try and do a link for the Gloucestershire Dialect later on.

However the 'H' at the beginning of a word is normally not sounded in many areas in the West County -i.e. Ouse (House) aert (Heart) etc.

I was born in the next County, Wiltshire (Grandad, born Blakeney) - and at school, the only children who sounded their 'H's - were children sent for elocutions lessons by their parents for improvement and getting on in the world.

I think that my great-grandmother only emphasized the "H" in Hester so we would know the family given name changed from Hester to Esther at some point along the line (Esther, Esther, Esther, HESTER). (Esther broke the chain by naming her first daughter Ruby but was disappointed when Ruby didn't name her oldest daughter--my mom--Esther!)

One of Esther's funny little sayings was: "I'm goin' to 'it you over the 'ead with an 'ickory 'ammer 'andle." It seemed like she added "hs" too ("Hit's time to go."). She was proud of her Forest background and enjoyed when people would comment on her accent.

I would love seeing the link on Forest dialect. I've read Winifred Foley's Forest Trilogy, and definitely puzzled over the meaning and pronunciation of some of the words! It's hard to keep the Hesters and Esthers straight when they are pronounced the same...the difference only being in the spelling?

One site to use is

YouTube

Search for Forest of Dean Dialect or Accent

There is a 4.35 minutes interview with Brian POWEL from the Forest of Dean - who talks about their unusual accent.

Another is 'Who killed the Bears' - 10 mins 13 secs (a radio commentary) - for that just enter: Forest of Dean Interview

+ many more

When the children would get out of line, my grandfather would say, "and ours is an 'appy 'little 'ome".

Hi Terri,
in case you've not found them, these links should give you a little feel of modern folk speaking Vurrist dialect. From my viewpoint, I was born in Cinderford in 1962, by '72 I'd learned to be wary of our next door neighbour, Bert Griffiths. Not because he wasn't a nice bloke, far from it. Just that he was an elderly Forester of the old school, always wore his flat cap, three piece wool suit and muffler, except in high summer when he might remove his jacket & muffler when cutting the long grass in front of his house, with a scythe !. Anyhow, despite us all being born & bred Vurristers, no-one in our family or the immediate neighbours (some of which had spent years teaching local school children!) could understand much of what he said in his strong dialect... so as kids we were always worried he might talk to us as it could be hard work replying without seeming rude.

This album is worth a listen, recorded around 1980 at the Angel inn, Coleford. "Forest Talk", an evening of songs, poetry and humour from the FoD with Harry Beddington, Winidred Foley, Dick Brice, Keith Morgan. You can catch some snippets from this website, the links may work better if opened in new windows.

http://www.allmusic.com/album/forest-talk-mw0002160221

Keith Morgan, one of the readers, has produced some great books and films too, as on this old BBC webpage, the links still work for me and hopefully for others too. To listen to them just click the links next to each person's name and mugshot.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/gloucestershire/voices2005/mining_in_the_forest.shtml

http://www.bbc.co.uk/gloucestershire/voices2005/meet_the_people.shtml

from http://www.bbc.co.uk/gloucestershire/voices2005/

Just bear in mind most if not all those speaking are school-educated and well-read folk from the late C20th. Now think back a hundred years or more, when many couldn't read or write and hardly anyone travelled out of their local community, the standards of education, spelling, literacy etc were far different again, plus Foresters usually don't sound their "H"s at the start of a word. Church ministers and census officials recorded what they heard, or thought they heard, from people who might have never been to school, hence so many spelling variations. Even some of those ministers and officials wern't as literate as we might expect nowadays. Similarly with placenames on early Ordnance Survey maps - they were surveyed in the field by Army engineers who weren't necessarily from the area being mapped, if they didn't know the name of a place or feature they asked a local, hence dialect problems etc meant some placenames appear to have changed over the years as can be seen between map revisions.

This much longer recording from 2004 includes many of the same people including my mother's friend Elsie Olivey. Elsie was born in 1921 and worked as school secretary as well as writing scripts for the Cinderford Wesley Players Pantomime, so an "educated" lady. Their voices are much more typical of the gentle burr you'd hear in the Dean today, as with most regional dialects it's become much more "refined" & easily understood compared to our ancestor's speech.
http://sounds.bl.uk/Accents-and-dialects/BBC-Voices/021M-C1190X0014XX-0301V0

Re the old dialect his webpage has a useful Vurrist dictionary.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/gloucestershire/voices2005/glossary.shtml

As MPG wisely suggests Youtube has some good clips, for a start lookout for Robin Morgan, a working freeminer who has appeared on several tv shows in recent years, eg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KFE5WiMW7PA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wN-FTIQLQS8

This excellent film "Between Two Rivers" was made in the early 60s by the great Dennis Potter, a son of Berry Hill who left for an Oxford education and fame as a tv playright, so his narrator's voice film isn't as strong as some of the other speakers, all of which are local Foresters trying to put on their best "BBC voices" of course ;-)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bv-qUNhU9HI
(Sadly the BBC no longer wants this clip on Youtube, maybe try this instead
http://bufvc.ac.uk/dvdfind/index.php/title/av77151

https://www.sungreen.co.uk/Coleford-Glos/Between_two_rivers.html

You can hear some of the older local folk, including Elsie Olivey, speaking in a gentle Forest burr (but not the true old dialect) on this 1986 film about the Forest in general, centred on Cinderford,
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SKIHH3BD4ik

Hoping this all helps and the links work in the USA !

I love it! I'm going to add that one to MY list of favorite sayings...

Hi Jefff, many thanks for these links...after mpg's kind post, I had stumbled on the longer BBC recording and was just ready to post the link for that one so others could enjoy as well. I listened to Dennis Potter (though was not able to find his recording "Who Killed the Bears?"). I've also listed to the short Brian Powell recording. Keeping in mind that these are modern speakers of Vurrest dialect, I still have to tilt my head just right to catch the meaning!

As I mentioned in one of the posts above, I'll be traveling to the Forest in May with my mom, aunt, and cousin, and we are so excited! Our ancestors will be strongly in our hearts and our imaginations will be working overtime, for sure. In the meantime, these recordings will give us a nice flavor of the area and we will have fun working through them. Thank you again!

Terri

You're very welcome Terri.
You mention the Potter recording about the bears, sorry for not being uptodate with this thread but you've lost me a little (easily done I'm afraid!). I presume you're referring to his BBC tv play "Beast with two backs" ?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Beast_With_Two_Backs
http://intranet.yorksj.ac.uk/potter/bea2back.htm

I've not seen this film but thanks to you it's now on my Christmas List !. I don't know if it's ever been officially released on video. Searching the net I cannot yet find it on any freeview sites such as Youtube, there are many Potters already there and new films are always being uploaded so keep an eye out. A wellknown online auction site showed a Florida seller listing but not selling a VHS version only a few weeks ago, and it's available in the UK on dvd altho probably not HD quality of course. Some screen shots here.
http://www.ioffer.com/i/a-beast-with-two-backs-dennis-potter-wednesday-play-576399028

Hope this helps, Jeff.

Please be assured I post these links only to try and assist fellow Foresters to access these important FoD archives, I'm not in any way connected with the various sellers.

The YouTube 10 mins interview of Who Killed the Bears - Durston Fletcher - From Bristol with Love Radio Show April 2012

….

Go into YouTube and put in the search engine: Forest of Dean Interview

There is a picture of a bear - and this is with regard to the Russian bears, (performing at Ruardean, in 1889, with 4 Frenchman) killed by a ramping mob from Cinderford - which have been discussed, a number of times on this forum, inc a poem written in dialect etc.

or try

http://www.littledeanjail.com

An article under:

Navigation
History of the Jail
Local History
Who killed the bears

Okay, this time I found the Who Killed the Bears recording, thank you--another fun example of modern Forest dialect! I mistakenly connected it with 'Potter' in my earlier search, which is apparently why I didn't find it the first time around. However, my confusion led Jefff to a (different) Potter recording that's now on his Christmas list and my watch list.

This thread is vull of resources on Vurrist dialect...thanks so much MPG and Jefff!

Terri