Hi, all. I’m hoping someone can help me solve a mystery.

In my tree I have John Haddock, b. 1833 Monmouth, son of Rawlings Haddock b. 1795 Aberafon and his wife, Charlotte (nee Howells). In 1852 John married Elizabeth Venables in Lydney. (She was baptised Jane Elisabeth Venables in Lydney in 1832.)

On the 1861 census, John is living with his Venables in-laws in Lydney and is listed as a widower.

In 1871 John is living in Wolverhampton - still a widower - with two children: John Rollings Haddock, b. 1863 Monmouth and Mary Jane Haddock b. 1866 Monmouth. These children’s baptism entries give their parents as John and Elizabeth, but if John was a widower in 1861, who is Elizabeth? I haven’t found a second marriage for John (on this site or on BMD) - which would have to have been in 1861-1863 - and would have to have been to another Elizabeth. Also, she would have to have died before the 1871 census.

John remarries in 1880 (Emma Hopkins, listed as a domestic servant in his house in 1871) but she was born in 1852 so can’t be the mother of John Rollings and Mary Jane.

It is possible (perhaps probable?!) that I’ve gone very wrong somewhere along this line but I have checked and double-checked. Please can anyone help me?

Regards, Gill

One to get confused with ...

1871 Haughton le Skerne Durham
John Haddock 44
Elizabeth Haddock 30
Margret Haddock 9
Fanny Haddock 7
Geenney Haddock 3
Elizabeth Haddock 7 Months
Thomas Saunders 22
William Brice 25
Davis Brice 44
John Dute 28

--
Ἀριστοτέλης A Gloster Boy in the Forest of Dean ><((((*>

Year: 1833
Month: Jun
Day: 30
Parents_Surname: HADDOCK
Child_Forenames: John
Fathers_Forenames: Rawlings
Mothers_Forenames: Charlotte
Mothers_Surname:
Residence: of this parish
Occupation: forgeman
Officiating_Minister:
Event: Baptism
Memoranda:
Notes:
Register_Reference:
Page_Number:
Parish_Chapel: Monmouth

1851 pontypool
Rawlings Haddock 50
Ann Haddock 36
John Haddock 19
Ellen Haddock 16
Charlotte Haddock 12

HADDOCK John
VENABLES Elizabeth
Forest of Dean Lydney St Mary the Virgin
1852 1 191

1861
Thomas Venable abt 1793 Newport, Monmouthshire, Wales Head Lydney, Gloucestershire
Margaret Venable abt 1792 Lydney Wife Lydney, Gloucestershire
Morgan Venable abt 1823 Lydney Son Lydney, Gloucestershire
Mary Landor abt 1853 Lydney Granddaughter Lydney, Gloucestershire
John Haddock abt 1834 Monmouthshire, Wales Son-in-Law Lydney, Gloucestershire

HADDOCK John
HATCH Elizabeth
Gloucester Northgate St John the Baptist
1861 55 No 2 462

Year: 1863
Month: Nov
Day: 18
Parents_Surname: HADDOCK
Child_Forenames: John Rawlings
Fathers_Forenames: John
Mothers_Forenames: Elizabeth
Mothers_Surname:
Residence: Forge
Occupation: hammer man
Officiating_Minister:
Event:
Memoranda:
Notes:
Register_Reference:
Page_Number:
Parish_Chapel: Monmouth

Year: 1866
Month: Sep
Day: 29
Parents_Surname: HADDOCK
Child_Forenames: Mary Jane
Fathers_Forenames: John
Mothers_Forenames: Elizabeth
Mothers_Surname:
Residence: The Forge Monmouth
Occupation: forgeman
Officiating_Minister:
Event:
Memoranda:
Notes:
Register_Reference:
Page_Number:
Parish_Chapel: Monmouth

Name: Elizabeth Haddock
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1838
Date of Registration: Jan-Feb-Mar 1870
Age at Death: 32
Registration district: Wolverhampton
Inferred County: Staffordshire
Volume: 6b
Page: 368

1871 Wolverhampton
John Haddock 35 Monmouth
John R Haddock 8 Monmouth
Mary Jane Haddock 6 Monmouth
Emma Hopkins 19 Caerleon
Edith Goddard 56
Solomon Goddard 21
Ellen Goddard 17
Sarah Ann Goddard 15
Edwin Henry Goddard 5

Name: John Haddock
Name: Emma Hopkins
Date of Registration: Jan-Feb-Mar 1880
Registration district: Cannock
Inferred County: Staffordshire
Volume Number: 6b
Page Number: 557

1881
Dwelling Grove St
Census Place Wednesfield, Stafford, England
Family History Library Film 1341673
Public Records Office Reference RG11
Piece / Folio 2812 / 58
Page Number 17

John HADDOCK Head M Male 48 Monmouth, Monmouth, England Holloware Fireman
Emma HADDOCK Wife M Female 48 Caulon, Monmouth, England Wife
Robbins HADDOCK Son U Male 17 Monmouth, Monmouth, England Under Hand Holloware Fireman
Thomas G. HADDOCK Son U Male 5 Whampton, Stafford, England Scholar
Ann HADDOCK Daur U Female 8 Rogestone, Monmouth, England Scholar
Elizabeth HADDOCK Daur U Female 8 m Whampton, Stafford, England
William WALTON Lodger U Male 53 Bridgenorth, Shropshire, England Coal Miner
Thomas WATKINS Lodger W Male 53 Pontypool, Wales Hollow Fireman

1891
John Haddock abt 1833 Monmouthshire, Wales Head Wednesfield, Staffordshire
Emma Haddock abt 1854 Monmouthshire, Wales Wife Wednesfield, Staffordshire
George Haddock abt 1875 Heath, Staffordshire, England Son Wednesfield, Staffordshire
Elizabeth Haddock abt 1880 Heath, Staffordshire, England Daughter Wednesfield, Staffordshire
William Haddock abt 1883 Heath, Staffordshire, England Son Wednesfield, Staffordshire

Name: John Haddock ?
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1835
Date of Registration: Jan-Feb-Mar 1900
Age at Death: 65
Registration district: Walsall
Inferred County: Staffordshire
Volume: 6b
Page: 598

--
Ἀριστοτέλης A Gloster Boy in the Forest of Dean ><((((*>

Thank you for your very fast response, slowhands. Much appreciated. Yes, there is quite a good trail for this particular John Haddock but I would dearly like to clear up the mystery of "Elizabeth", the mother of his first two children. I have considered the possibility that the "widower" entry on the 1861 is a mistake and have searched for Elizabeth/Jane/Jane Elisabeth, in case she was away on census night - but haven't had any luck. I'll probably have to get birth certificates for John Rollings and Mary Jane but thought it would be cheaper to see if someone else has cracked this already!

Thanks again, Gill

I think he marries in 1861 :-

HADDOCK John
HATCH Elizabeth
Gloucester Northgate St John the Baptist
1861 55 No 2 462

Name: John Haddock
Name: Elizabeth Hatch
Date of Registration: Jul-Aug-Sep 1861
Registration district: Gloucester
Inferred County: Gloucestershire
Volume Number: 6a
Page Number: 408

Name: Elizabeth Haddock
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1838
Date of Registration: Jan-Feb-Mar 1870
Age at Death: 32
Registration district: Wolverhampton
Inferred County: Staffordshire
Volume: 6b
Page: 368

Possible family ~;-
1841
Frederick Hatot abt 1816 Gloucestershire, England St Michael, Gloucestershire
Ann Hatot abt 1821 Gloucestershire, England St Michael, Gloucestershire
Eliza Hatch abt 1836 Gloucestershire, England St Michael, Gloucestershire
Penelope Hatch abt 1841 Gloucestershire, England St Michael, Gloucestershire

death
Name: Frederick Hatch
Date of Registration: Oct-Nov-Dec 1847
Registration district: Gloucester
Inferred County: Gloucestershire
Volume: 11
Page: 251

1851
Ann Hatch abt 1817 Gloucestershire, England Head Gloucester St John The Baptist, Gloucestershire
Eliza Hatch abt 1836 Gloucestershire, England Daughter Gloucester St John The Baptist, Gloucestershire
Penelope Hatch abt 1841 Gloucestershire, England Daughter Gloucester St John The Baptist, Gloucestershire

death
Name: Penelope Hatch
Date of Registration: Jul-Aug-Sep 1854
Registration district: Gloucester
Inferred County: Gloucestershire
Volume: 6a
Page: 139

--
Ἀριστοτέλης A Gloster Boy in the Forest of Dean ><((((*>

Slowhands, thanks for this, too. Oh, I've just noticed you've found a death entry for Elizabeth in Wolverhampton in 1870. How did I miss that? This looks promising. I just need to find the marriage, or find that the 1861 census was wrong. Off I go again .....

Regards, Gill

Slowhands, I think you've done it! I can't find that marriage in the FoD Parish Records - have you got a different set of records? Does the marriage entry give John's father's name? I am so pleased. I've been hours and hours on this. Thank you very much. Sorry to come back with more questions, but hope you can spare me just one more minute.

Thanks again, Gill

links to previous thread - HADDOCK line

http://www.forum.forest-of-dean.net/index.php?id=17793.

Church of Latter Day Saints Site

Marriage Gloucester - 23 August 1861, John HADDOCK, father Rollins HADDOCK

married

Elizabeth HATCH, father John HATCH

Gloucestershire BDM - Marriage : 1861 - Northgate, St John the Baptist.

The marriage certificate would give occupation of John HATCH and also confirm the above details

--

this is a 'very long shot'

Elizabeth HATCH married in 1861 St John the Baptist, Gloucester

HATCH living in St John the Baptist District, is a Harriet HATCH born Westbury c1837 - working as a Needlewoman and living with in a house ran by a Beer House Keeper.

1841 Census, Westbury on Severn
Chaxhill

HATCH

John - 45, Fisherman (Elizabeth's father was a John HATCH)
Elizabeth - 14
Jane - 10
Eliza - 6
Harriot - 4
Alice - 2
Ann - 20 - Female Servant

(Elizabeth HADDOCK died age 32 in 1870 - c1838)

Thank you so much. This firms up that we have the correct John Haddock. I can't believe I missed the IGI entry, but I'm very grateful that you didn't! I thought I'd looked everywhere but the Haddock family has been known to confuse me on other occasions.

Thanks again - to you and slowhands.

Gill

John Haddock was indeed a widower on the 1861 census. His first wife Elizabeth Venables had died. (I think she is the Jane Haddock buried at Lydney 12th March 1861 aged 26 years but I haven't proved this yet by a death certificate.) He married Elizabeth Hatch on 23rd August 1861 at The Parish Church, St John the Baptist, Gloucester. Elizabeth's father was John Hatch and his occupation was given as a Dealer. Elizabeth Hatch was the mother of John's two children John Rawlings and Mary Jane. The family moved to Wolverhampton. John Rawlings was my husband's great grandfather.

I do all Haddock and Haydock and do hav`e much on that line. I would be glad to share with you. You may email me at haydock@ix.netcom.com
I would live to get from you John Rawlings Haddock (your husband's great gradfather's decendants