Thomas Jones - Footman in Tidenham (General)
by franmogridge 
, Bexleyheath, Kent, Monday, November 21, 2011, 15:43 (4747 days ago)
Hi can anyone tell me who Thomas Jones may of worked for as a footman this is stated on the baptism of his first child with Mary Edwards. His daughter Jane Jones baptised on the 13 Apr 1817 at Tidenham is my 3 x great grandmother. Also on the marriage entry for Thomas Jones and Mary Edwards 6 Aug 1816 Tidenham states he is a widow does anyone know his first marriage.
Can anyone help many thanks Frances Mogridge
Thomas Jones - Footman in Tidenham
by m p griffiths , Monday, November 21, 2011, 17:24 (4747 days ago) @ franmogridge
When Thomas JONES married Mary EDWARDS - at Tidenham 6 August 1816, one witness was a Susanna HAMMETT
A Susanna HAMMETT is a witness to the wedding of a William TAMLIN to Mary HAMMETT at Chapel Hill, Monmouth, 20 November 1820.
If this Susanna is the same person - why did she attend the marriage of Thomas JONES to Mary EDWARDS? was there a family connection?
---
1851 Census, Monmouthshire, Chapel Hill
The SHIP
TAMPLEN (transcribed as)
TAMPLIN
William - 54 - labourer, born Chapel Hill
Mary - 51
Caroline - 20
Rebecca - 16
Thersa - 13
Thezia - 10
Next Door
John TAMPLIN - 80 Fisherman - born Tintern
George JONES - son-in-law - 39 - labourer, born Trelleck Grange, Monmouth
Maria JONES - daughter - 34
Betty J - Granddaughter - 9
Hannah M - 5
Ann - 7
John G Grandson - 3
Edward - 1
Thomas Jones - Footman in Tidenham
by Jefff , West London, Middlesex, Tuesday, November 22, 2011, 02:56 (4746 days ago) @ m p griffiths
Hi Francis,
Do you know with certainty which Thomas Jones we're looking at wrt a Baptism Record. I ask as there's several possibles within the Tidenham/Chepstow area, and many more in relatively nearby Monmouth. Was he or his descendants watermen, this would open up the search much more on both banks of the Severn?
I've tried searching this area for pre1816 marriages for Thomas, and subsequent burials of the wife, but nothing obvious. That said this is still all supposition of course. To help this search his age & even birthplace would be very usefull... one "possible" was this marriage, but the possible wife's possible burial is of a lady aged 66, so perhaps unlikely he'd marry and father children afterwards ?!.
Record_ID: 43667
Entry_Number: 193
Year: 1811
Month: Aug
Day: 20
Grooms_Surname: JONES
Grooms_Forenames: Thomas
Grooms_Age:
Groom_Condition: batchelor
Grooms_Occupation:
Grooms_Residence: of this parish
Grooms_Fathers_Surname:
Grooms_Fathers_Forenames:
Grooms_Fathers_Occupation:
Brides_Surname: YOUNG
Brides_Forenames: Elizabeth
Brides_Age:
Brides_Condition: Spinster
Brides_Occupation:
Brides_Residence: of this parish
Brides_Fathers_Surname:
Brides_Fathers_Forenames:
Brides_Fathers_Occupation:
Licence_or_Banns: Banns
Date_of_Banns:
Signature_or_Mark: Both mark
Witness_1: Willia]m Price
Witness_2: Orpheus Lewis
Other_Witnesses:
Officiating_Minister:
Event: Marriage
Memoranda:
Notes: Any abbreviated forenames have been expanded to the full name
Register_Reference: 1801-1812
Page_Number:
Parish_Chapel: Chepstow
Soundex_Groom: J520
Soundex_Bride: Y520
Record_ID: 123946
Entry_Number: 15
Year: 1813
Month: Jun
Day: 9
Surname: YOUNG
Forenames: Elizabeth
Residence: Back
Age_at_death: 66 [years]
Officiating_Minister:
Event: Burial
Cause_of_death:
Memoranda:
Notes: Any abbreviated forenames have been expanded to the full name
Register_Reference:
Page_No:
Parish_Chapel: Chepstow
Soundex: Y520
Assuming his previous marriage did bear children, searching for possible sons Thomas Jones in the area gives interesting results including;
Record_ID: 60615
Entry_Number: 88
Year: 1816
Month: Mar
Day: 31
Parents_Surname: JONES
Child_Forenames: Thomas
Fathers_Forenames: Thomas
Mothers_Forenames: Susannah
Mothers_Surname:
Residence: Tidenham
Occupation: Labourer
Officiating_Minister: Tho[mas] Thomas
Event: Baptism
Memoranda:
Notes:
Register_Reference: P333/1 IN 1/3
Page_Number: 11
Parish_Chapel: Tidenham
Soundex: J520
So before the 16th August marriage, Susannah of no surname(? - why?), and a Susannah(perhaps related ?) is at the August marriage ....
I cannot find a subsequent burial in Tidenham for Susannah Jones.
HOWEVER as said this is all supposition. Whats fact is, re the Baptism above, there are fiftysix Burial records for Susan/Susannahs within the FoD database. This name, and Thomas Jones, are hugely common names in the area at this time.
Without hard facts particularly "your" Thomas's baptism date and place, it's a very difficult search.
Sorry I cann't help more, but hopefully my efforts might clear the mud for others.
Susannah Hammett c1800
by Jefff , West London, Middlesex, Tuesday, November 22, 2011, 03:23 (4746 days ago) @ Jefff
Re witness Susannah Hammett, searching the whole FoD database without area or date restriction still only finds the following two PRs, a rare name indeed:
Record_ID: 198399
Entry_Number:
Year: 1797
Month: Jun
Day: 3
Parents_Surname: HAMETT
Child_Forenames: Susannah
Fathers_Forenames: Jas
Mothers_Forenames: Mary
Mothers_Surname:
Residence: Tintern
Occupation:
Officiating_Minister:
Event: Baptism
Memoranda:
Notes:
Register_Reference:
Page_Number:
Parish_Chapel: Tintern Monmouth
Soundex: H530
Record_ID: 48805
Entry_Number:
Year: 1822
Month: Feb
Day: 6
Grooms_Surname: WAIT
Grooms_Forenames: Thomas
Grooms_Age:
Groom_Condition: bachelor
Grooms_Occupation:
Grooms_Residence: Chapel Hill
Grooms_Fathers_Surname:
Grooms_Fathers_Forenames:
Grooms_Fathers_Occupation:
Brides_Surname: HAMMETT
Brides_Forenames: Susanna Hopkins
Brides_Age:
Brides_Condition: spinster
Brides_Occupation:
Brides_Residence: Chapel Hill
Brides_Fathers_Surname:
Brides_Fathers_Forenames:
Brides_Fathers_Occupation:
Licence_or_Banns: banns
Date_of_Banns:
Signature_or_Mark: Both sign
Witness_1: Thomas Young
Witness_2: Mary Flew[?]
Other_Witnesses:
Officiating_Minister:
Event: Marriage
Memoranda:
Notes:
Register_Reference:
Page_Number:
Parish_Chapel: Chapel Hill Monmouth
Soundex_Groom: W300
Soundex_Bride: H530
NB both Monmouth area. Presumably the same Susannah ?
WRT the 1797 Baptism, her parents' marriage is:
Record_ID: 48719
Entry_Number:
Year: 1795
Month: Jun
Day: 12
Grooms_Surname: HAMMETT
Grooms_Forenames: Jas
Grooms_Age:
Groom_Condition:
Grooms_Occupation:
Grooms_Residence:
Grooms_Fathers_Surname:
Grooms_Fathers_Forenames:
Grooms_Fathers_Occupation:
Brides_Surname: TAMPLIN
Brides_Forenames: Mary
Brides_Age:
Brides_Condition:
Brides_Occupation:
Brides_Residence:
Brides_Fathers_Surname:
Brides_Fathers_Forenames:
Brides_Fathers_Occupation:
Licence_or_Banns: banns
Date_of_Banns:
Signature_or_Mark:
Witness_1:
Witness_2:
Other_Witnesses:
Officiating_Minister:
Event: Marriage
Memoranda:
Notes:
Register_Reference:
Page_Number:
Parish_Chapel: Chapel Hill Monmouth
Soundex_Groom: H530
Soundex_Bride: T514
So the Susannah who witnessed the weddings is the daughter of Mary Tamplin, the bride in the second of these weddings.
Thomas Jones - Footman in Tidenham
by franmogridge , Bexleyheath, Kent, Tuesday, November 22, 2011, 06:13 (4746 days ago) @ Jefff
Hi Jeff
There daughter married 18 Feb 1838 living at Gilaford End??? fathers name Thos Jones occupation ------- she married a William Young. Witnesses James Prior & Margaret Elliott. This is the only hard evidence I have got other than looking on this web site for possible parents. I have also not been able to find Thomas on a census which would be of some help.
Many thanks Fran
Thomas Jones - Previous thread
by m p griffiths , Tuesday, November 22, 2011, 09:06 (4746 days ago) @ franmogridge
Thomas Jones - Footman in Tidenham
by ChrisW , Tuesday, November 22, 2011, 14:52 (4746 days ago) @ Jefff
If Elizabeth Young married a Thomas Jones then surely she would have been buried as Elizabeth Jones?
Thomas Jones - Footman in Tidenham
by Jefff , West London, Middlesex, Tuesday, November 22, 2011, 20:50 (4746 days ago) @ ChrisW
in the immortal words of the leader & inspiration of my ancestor Corporal Jones,
"I was wondering who'd spot my deliberate mistake"...
Thanks Chris for helping, you are of course correct. I really must stop trying to do this in the middle of the night, but its the only time the house is quiet enough for constructive lateral thinking.
I'll edit my post accordingly. A quick look shows an awful lot of Eliza Jones PRs locally, so sadly no hard evidence.
If I wern't a Jones meself then I'd begrudge people having such a common sorry popular name !
;-)
Thomas Jones - Judith Greenway, Monmouth marriage 1803.
by Jefff , West London, Middlesex, Wednesday, November 23, 2011, 01:29 (4745 days ago) @ Jefff
Good evening Frances,
I think I MAY have cracked it.
That said due to the high number of Thomas Jones' in the area then nothing's certain to my cynical mind, indeed after several false trails I'd nearly given up.
Anyway from this site's PRs I found this POSSIBLE prior marriage for Thomas:
Record_ID: 98373
Entry_Number:
Year: 1803
Month: Oct
Day: 6
Grooms_Surname: JONES
Grooms_Forenames: Thomas
Grooms_Age:
Groom_Condition: bachelor
Grooms_Occupation:
Grooms_Residence: of this parish
Grooms_Fathers_Surname:
Grooms_Fathers_Forenames:
Grooms_Fathers_Occupation:
Brides_Surname: GREENWAY
Brides_Forenames: Judith
Brides_Age:
Brides_Condition: spinster
Brides_Occupation:
Brides_Residence: of this parish
Brides_Fathers_Surname:
Brides_Fathers_Forenames:
Brides_Fathers_Occupation:
Licence_or_Banns: Licence
Date_of_Banns:
Signature_or_Mark: Both sign
Witness_1: Thomas Mason
Witness_2: Mary Gwillam
Other_Witnesses:
Officiating_Minister:
Event: Marriage
Memoranda:
Notes:
Register_Reference:
Page_Number:
Parish_Chapel: Monmouth
Soundex_Groom: J520
Soundex_Bride: G650
And this POSSIBLE Burial for Judith:
Record_ID: 296673
Entry_Number:
Year: 1805
Month: Aug
Day: 15
Surname: JONES
Forenames: Judith
Residence:
Age_at_death:
Officiating_Minister:
Event: Burial
Cause_of_death:
Memoranda: w/o Thos Jones
Notes:
Register_Reference:
Page_No:
Parish_Chapel: Monmouth
Soundex: J520
THANKFULLY and quite unusually in my experience the anonymous(?) Minister has entered the helpfull memoranda note "wife of Thomas Jones" which does rather help our case.
In my albeit limited experience such a note is unusual; this particular Minister may have routinely done this, or maybe he did it due to the particular sad nature of the short marriage ?. Eitherway all thanks to him ! Just a shame whoever married them didnt ask who Thomas's father was.... not that they often did in those days to be fair. That said I'd lay bets it was another Thomas Jones !...
Wonder if the witnesses are of help to us ?:
1. Thomas Mason; possible Baptism(and not nullified by a later burial b4 1811)
Record_ID: 420490
Entry_Number:
Year: 1776
Month: Feb
Day: 11
Parents_Surname: MASON
Child_Forenames: Thomas
Fathers_Forenames: William
Mothers_Forenames: Elizabeth
Mothers_Surname:
Residence:
Occupation:
Officiating_Minister:
Event: Baptism
Memoranda:
Notes:
Register_Reference:
Page_Number:
Parish_Chapel: Monmouth
Soundex: M250
Cannot find his marriage tho', with or without Thos Jones as witness.
Similarly cannot find a probable baptism or marriage for Mary Gwillam.
Finally wrt Thomas & Judith's short marriage, I cannot find any baptisms at all.
Frances, you say that Census info would help. Well yes it would, but sadly the first official National Census of real use for family research wasn't until 1841, so no good to us here. Earlier Parish Records exist of course such as on this FoD FH website and we are so very fortunate in this respect. However with names such as Jones to search things will be difficult especially in our area ! Assuming he's say 20years old in 1800, looking for his Baptism in 1780 +/- 5 years gives at least five possibles in the Tidenham/Monmouth area, with many more equally possible in the locality. So...?...
But hopefully this helps a little.
Now over to the clever researchers (I'm just a guesser with too much freetime) to sort it out, if not disprove me altogether !
Good luck !