Wise ones,

I am at my wits end to crack this ceiling working upwards.

If I could help people with family extending downwards from Thomas Brown 1771 Waterman and Ann Marsh 1777 it would be a pleasure. Very interesting connection with the Royal Arms and the Carpenters Arms at different times and I see that whilst both closed in 1959, the Royal Arms is for sale this very weekend as a residence. My line moved to Rhodesia in about 1920 and myself and kids still carry the Marsh Brown and we have moved to Australia.

I have piles of paper with lots of Browns and few Marshs listed back to 1726, but I just don't know how to connect dots backwards - and I am not going to damage the integrity of this work by guessing.

Could someone help, either with past work or with detective techniques - how I should proceed.

And again, if I could help people downstream, it would be a pleasure.

Rob

That was silly of me!

Let me add some references.

The family tended to be born and live in Brockweir and baptized in the Parish of Tintern and the Parish of Hewelsfield. Their life cycle tended to comprise Waterman in their younger lives and Publican of Royal Arms or Carpenter Arms in their later lives.

Thomas and Ann were married on 23 June 1800 in Bristol. I did see a remark in 2009 that it was popular to go and get married in Bristol - but frankly I am confused by this since they seemed to be born, live and die in a 3 mile radius?

The kids were - birth order
James Brown married Lois Ann Williams
Thomas Brown, died young
Temperance Brown married Henry Smith
Hannah Brown
George Brown married Amelia
Elizabeth Brown - bad girl, three illegitimate kids
Charles Marsh Brown married to Ellen Victoria Jenkins
William Brown
John Brown married Alice

Where I've left out surnames or middle names it is not sloppiness, I just don't have them.

Could I also ask if it is correct that there was about 6-9 day gap between breath and burial as appearing in the Book of Rememberance? I have these differences appearing in my research. I also note my relatives seemed a bit sloppy about getting around to the Baptisms - this time could stretch out a little.

Thanks in advance

Rob

Hi Rob, welcome to the forum.
Re your comment re watermen being married in Bristol, last year there was also this prior thread which may be of interest to you, coincidentally (?) also about residents of the same part of the Wye as Thomas & Ann.
http://www.forum.forest-of-dean.net/index.php?id=34055

I guess you've already searched this site's PRs ?.
As you say there are a few "possible" Baptisms for Thomas so I won't try and guestimate those, I'll leave that to the site's experts.
Ann though looks a different case, Marsh is not a common name at all wrt the PRs, my best suggestion while searching between 1767 & 1787 would be:

Record_ID: 198252
Entry_Number:
Year: 1773
Month: Aug
Day: 10
Parents_Surname: MARSH
Child_Forenames: Hannah
Fathers_Forenames: Chas
Mothers_Forenames: Anne
Mothers_Surname:
Residence: Tintern
Occupation:
Officiating_Minister:
Event: Baptism
Memoranda:
Notes:
Register_Reference:
Page_Number:
Parish_Chapel: Tintern Monmouth
Soundex: M620

How's this sound to you ?.

Parents:
Record_ID: 44481
Entry_Number:
Year: 1769
Month: Jun
Day: 18
Grooms_Surname: MARSH
Grooms_Forenames: Charles
Grooms_Age:
Groom_Condition:
Grooms_Occupation:
Grooms_Residence: Tintern
Grooms_Fathers_Surname:
Grooms_Fathers_Forenames:
Grooms_Fathers_Occupation:
Brides_Surname: STURGES
Brides_Forenames: Anne
Brides_Age:
Brides_Condition:
Brides_Occupation:
Brides_Residence: Tintern
Brides_Fathers_Surname:
Brides_Fathers_Forenames:
Brides_Fathers_Occupation:
Licence_or_Banns: licence
Date_of_Banns:
Signature_or_Mark:
Witness_1:
Witness_2:
Other_Witnesses:
Officiating_Minister:
Event: Marriage
Memoranda:
Notes:
Register_Reference:
Page_Number:
Parish_Chapel: Tintern Monmouth
Soundex_Groom: M620
Soundex_Bride: S362

There are prior Burials of similar names within the same Parish's PRs, but no obvious Baptisms unless tardy ones perhaps as you say.

The only other possible that I can see is:

Record_ID: 198252
Entry_Number:
Year: 1773
Month: Aug
Day: 10
Parents_Surname: MARSH
Child_Forenames: Hannah
Fathers_Forenames: Chas
Mothers_Forenames: Anne
Mothers_Surname:
Residence: Tintern
Occupation:
Officiating_Minister:
Event: Baptism
Memoranda:
Notes:
Register_Reference:
Page_Number:
Parish_Chapel: Tintern Monmouth
Soundex: M620

Have you searched the Forum for similar threads, I suspect you have ?
eg http://www.forum.forest-of-dean.net/index.php?id=23199

It may be worthwhile you emailing the posters of these threads (via their blue hyperlink usernames) and hopefully sharing usefull research ?

Good luck with your hunt !

Thanks a lot Jeff,

Wow, I had not actually seen that thread about marriages in Bristol - I was going on a sniff rather than some sound background info. Thanks for putting so much effort into your response on Thomas and Ann. I've been off line printing away - I know I should just save files, but I like scribbling on print-outs.

Regards,

Rob

You're very welcome Rob, that wasn't a problem at all. Re the Bristol prior thread, it's really is worth spending some time searching thro the forums old threads which go back some years, interesting how Bristol is a common "thread" ?. Last year I recall a few threads generally asking about Wye Watermen, there may be something there of interest. Also don't forget to search the rest of the site, theres much more besides the huge PR databse andthe forum, lots of old photos, documents, newspaper clips etc etc which may be of interest. Re the prior Brown thread, looking at this site's "Surname Interests" page, the original poster of that thread has registered re Brown so I'm sure will welcome your contact. In the main this is a very friendly helpfull Forum, but then we're all Foresters at heart.
Christine (Brown) Hall
http://www.forum.forest-of-dean.net/index.php?mode=page&id=19

Re your printout comment, when I started my research in a very amateur selftought way 18 months ago I started creating data files off this sites PRs; now I have hundreds across various families, but still not plotted in family tree form OR on printouts, believe me I wish they were, much easier to search thro & compare !

'John BROWN married Alice'

?

Ancestry

England & Wales Marriage 1538-1940

Name: John BROWN

Gender: Male

Father's name: Thomas BROWN

Spouse's name: Alice WATKINS

Spouse's father's Name: John WATKINS

Marriage Date: 27 August 1845

Marriage Place: Bristol, Gloucestershire, England

----

John & Alice - 1851 Census, Devonport
33 James Street

BROWN

John - 32 Shipwright, born Glos. Brockweir
Alice - 28 - born Monmouth, Tintern
Mary - 5 - born Monmouth, Tintern
Bertha - 3 - born Devon, Devonport
Alice J - 1 - born Devon, Devonport

---

Looking at the Monmouthshire Parish Transcripts : Tintern

John (Shipwright) & Alice BROWN had their daughter Bertha christened 27 September 1848, residence Devenport

----

'George BROWN married Amelia'

FOD records

Marriage at St Briavels - 28 October 1834

George BROWN, Bachelor of this Parish

married

Amelia WORGAN, Spinster of this Parish

witnesses: Charles BROWN and Alice LUFF

--

Using the Advance Search for children of George and Amelia (Waterman) - Parish Church Hewlesfield - residence Brockweir

Mary Eleanor - 1835
James - 1837
George - 1839
- 1841
Henry - 1845
Elizabeth - 1850
Ellen - 1850
Richard - 1850

Checking with GloucesteshireBDM, the children listed: mother's maiden name WORGAN