William HERBERT 1758-1824 & Martha (General)
by cjk136 
, Tuesday, May 15, 2012, 12:26 (4571 days ago)
Thank you slowhands and Jim for considering my previous post William & Martha HERBERT - 2 different families??? which is now locked: http://www.forum.forest-of-dean.net/index.php?id=36978
From your replies would it be reasonable to assume that sometime after his first wife Hannah YEMM 1758-1789 died, William HERBERT 1758-1824 and Martha [UNKNOWN now not WOORE] lived in Ruardean Hill and had 5 children:
Elizabeth HERBERT bap 11 Mar 1804 (died before 1808)
Margaret HERBERT bap 9 Feb 1806 married George PARSONS 1804-1875
Elizabeth HERBERT bap 26 Apr 1808 - bur 21 Jan 1880 age 79
William HERBERT bap 26 Feb 1809 - bur 13 Dec 1839 age 30 married Sarah DOBBS
Charles HERBERT bap 6 Dec- bur 15 Dec 1811
If so, I presume that there is no known record for William's second marriage to Martha possibly between 1789 and 1804. Or they may not have married? Is there any way to find out who she was?
According to a note in JL Phillips-Evans article The Herbert Family of Ruardean, when William & Martha's first son William was baptised on 26 Feb 1809 the mother's name was given as 'Ann'. Could this be a clue or a red herring?
As usual, all comments very welcome and any help most appreciated.
William HERBERT 1758-1824 & Martha
by m p griffiths , Tuesday, May 15, 2012, 13:55 (4570 days ago) @ cjk136
A Martha HERBERT was a witness, along with William POWELL at a marriage in Goodrich 3 December 1804 of William POWELL and Mary FROST - so assume this confirms the two family theory.
The Gloucestershire Marriage Index does have a marriage of a William HERBERT of Poole Keynes to Martha HUMPHREYS at Coates 17 May 1797 - but this would seem to far away...
William HERBERT 1758-1824 & Martha
by cjk136 , Tuesday, May 15, 2012, 18:13 (4570 days ago) @ m p griffiths
MP Griffiths thank you very much for your reply. I think that the Martha HERBERT who was a witness in Goodrich was probably Martha nee WOORE, and not 'mine'!
I agree with you that Poole Keynes seems too far away. But it prompted me to search again in a different way and I came up with this possibility which is much closer to home as it were:
William HERBERT & Martha possible marriage
Transcription page details
Day:17
Month:Jun
Year:1796
Groom's Forename(s):William
Groom's Surname:Herbert
Groom's Parish:Llantillio Crosssenny
Groom's Status / Notes:
Bride's Forename(s):Martha
Bride's Surname:Jones
Bride's Parish:Llantillio Crossenny
Bride's Status / Notes:
Banns / Licence:Banns
Consent:
Parish:Llantilio Crossenny
Church:St. Tilio
County:Monmouthshire
Record source:Gwent FHS Marriages - Chepstow Branch
Data provider:Gwent Family History Society
Transcriptions © Gwent Family History Society
Though not relishing looking for 'Jones' in Wales, I'd welcome any help at all, especially if someone has already researched this route!
William HERBERT 1758-1824 & Martha
by djmfhr111 , Tuesday, May 15, 2012, 21:06 (4570 days ago) @ cjk136
Martha Herbert abt 1774-1846 who died in Ruardean is probably the one (aged 65 ish) on the 1841 census in Ruardean Hill and is recorded on that census as being born in Gloucestershire (not Monmouthshire)
If she is also the Martha Jones who married William Herbert in Llantillio in 1796 then:
She could have married in Monmouthshire but was born in Gloucestershire?
She could have been born in Monmouthshire but this did not get noted for the 1841 census?
As William and Martha Herbert of Ruardean don't baptise any children in Ruardean until 8 years after 1796 - do we know if there any additional Herbert baptisms near Llantillio to a William and Martha between 1796 and 1804?
William HERBERT 1758-1824 & Martha JONES?
by cjk136 , Tuesday, May 15, 2012, 22:41 (4570 days ago) @ djmfhr111
Thank you for your reply djmfhr111, I haven't found any other offspring in Llantillio. But I have just realised that William's elder sister Susannah HERBERT/HARBERT 1746 married a William JONES in Ruardean on 15 Jul 1770:
Record ID 16423
Entry Number
Year 1770
Month Jul
Day 15
Grooms Surname JONES
Grooms Forenames William
Grooms Age
Groom Condition
Grooms Occupation
Grooms Residence Ruardean
Grooms Fathers Surname
Grooms Fathers Forenames
Grooms Fathers Occupation
Brides Surname HARBERT
Brides Forenames Susannah
Brides Age
Brides Condition
Brides Occupation
Brides Residence Ruardean
Brides Fathers Surname
Brides Fathers Forenames
Brides Fathers Occupation
Licence or Banns Banns
Date of Banns
Signature or Mark he signed her mark
Witness 1 Jno CRADOCK
Witness 2 Joseph HARPER
Other Witnesses
Officiating Minister no minister mentioned but in handwriting of H THOM
Event Marriage
Memoranda
Notes
Register Reference P275 IN 1/3
Page Number 67
Parish Chapel Ruardean
I am now looking for a connection between William JONES and Martha JONES...!
William HERBERT 1758-1824 & Martha JONES?
by cjk136 , Wednesday, May 16, 2012, 08:44 (4570 days ago) @ cjk136
Me again! Just a thought...
JONES William & Martha possible baptisms:
431569 1746 JONES Martha Robert Mary Monmouth
418991 1755 JONES William Robert Mary Monmouth
419245 1759 JONES Robert Robert Mary sweep chimney Monmouth
Does anyone think that it's worth pursuing my next theory? The above might possibly be brothers and a sister who were born in Monmouth and moved to Ruardean with William JONES marrying Susannah HERBERT on 15 Jul 1770 and Martha JONES becoming William HERBERT's second wife in 1796?
Second thoughts - Martha would probably be too old to have had all her children, so I think I have to discount this.
Nevertheless all ideas gratefully received!