From an article in the Gloucestershire Echo some time in 1936

Double Wedding:- Two Brothers Marry Two Sisters at Newnham

There is a romantic touch about a double wedding that took place by special licence at Newnham Register Office.

Two brothers married two sisters, and no one except the four new anything about it, each couple acting as witnesses for the other's ceremony.

The parties were Mr George James BOWDLER and Miss Lilian ROBERTS and Mr Reginald Francis BOWDLER and Miss Gladys ROBERTS

The bridegrooms are sons of Mr and Mrs Sidney BOWDLER, of the Swan Hotel Cinderford and the brides are daughters of Mr and Mrs Albert ROBERTS of Sandley[Soudley?]

There was a series of happy surprises when they arrived at the Swan Hotel after the ceremony

Mr Sidney BOWDLER greeted the party with the remark "Hello, you look as if you have been to a wedding"

Then one of the brides said to Miss Gladys BOWDLER, a sister of the the bridegroom, "How would you like me for a sister-in-law?"

This was taken as a joke, and the significance of the query was not appreciated until she removed the glove from her left hand. The surprise had only just taken root when the same process was applied by the other bride.

Mrs BOWDLER received them warmly and said "That's two more daughters"

Thanks !, what a great story, and perhaps a perfect wedding arrangement from a purely practical & economical viewpoint such as perhaps a man might prefer ?.

From this site's PRS I see the grooms were from "my own" St Stephen's Parish:

Record_ID: 332839
Entry_Number: 399
Year: 1907
Month: Nov
Day: 17
Parents_Surname: BOWDLER
Child_Forenames: George James
Fathers_Forenames: Sydney Francis
Mothers_Forenames: Helen
Mothers_Surname:
Residence: St Annel's Road
Occupation: Collier
Officiating_Minister: W H M Hancock
Event: Baptism
Memoranda:
Notes:
Register_Reference: P85/2 IN 1/2
Page_Number: 50
Parish_Chapel: Cinderford St Stephen
Soundex: B346

Record_ID: 333228
Entry_Number: 788
Year: 1914
Month: Sep
Day: 10
Parents_Surname: BOWDLER
Child_Forenames: Reginald Francis
Fathers_Forenames: Sydney Francis
Mothers_Forenames: Helen
Mothers_Surname:
Residence: Sutton
Occupation: Collier
Officiating_Minister: J Martin Vicar
Event: Baptism
Memoranda:
Notes:
Register_Reference: P85/2 IN 1/2
Page_Number: 99
Parish_Chapel: Cinderford St Stephen
Soundex: B346

I don't know of any local Suttons, would this be Sutton Coalfield or even Sutton London, perhaps due to the War ?

From the 1911 Census, (free access on Ancestry still):
Five Room Household at Barnham Farm, Littledean, Glos

Sidney Bowdler Head abt 1882 29 Male Married 5yrs Farmer Littledean, Gloucestershire
Ellen Bowdler Wife abt 1883 28 Female Married 5yrs East Dean, Gloucestershire
Fred Bowdler Son abt 1907 4 Male East Dean, Gloucestershire
George Bowdler Son abt 1908 3 Male East Dean, Gloucestershire
Gladys Bowdler Daughter abt 1910 1 Female East Dean,
Nora Morgan Cousin abt 1895 16 Female servant Domestic East Dean, Gloucestershire

I see there are other Bowdler PRs around this time at Pleasant Stile, Littledean.
Re Barnham Farm, is this in any way related to what as kids we knew as "The Barn" upon top of Cinderford/Littledean Hill, we spent many happy days in the woods along there ?. I'll have a look at the Old Maps site later..

Oddly perhaps? I can only find one Marriage entry on FreeBMD:

Surname First name(s) Mother/Spouse/Age District Vol Page
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Marriages Jun 1936 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
BOWDLER George J Roberts Westbury S 6a 891
Roberts Lillian E Bowdler Westbury S. 6a 891

A little more detail from Glos BMD:

Groom Surname Groom Forename Bride Surname Bride Forename District Parish Building Year Register Entry
BOWDLER George James ROBERTS Lillian Estella Forest of Dean Westbury-on-Severn (FoD) Register Office 1936 22 150

Groom Surname Groom Forename Bride Surname Bride Forename District Parish Building Year Register Entry
BOWDLER Reginald Francis ROBERTS Beatrice Gladys Forest of Dean Westbury-on-Severn (FoD) Register Office 1936 22 151

No more obvious subsequent entries on FreeBMD for any of these four that I can see.
Searching Bowdler/Roberts Births after 1936 I find these which I think are theirs:

Surname First name(s) Mother District Vol Page
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Births Jun 1937 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Bowdler Marlene E Roberts F.of Dean 6a 467

Births Jun 1938 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Bowdler Keith Roberts F.of Dean 6a 480

And also these which perhaps link to "Sutton" Coalfield ?, are they related ?

Births Dec 1948 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Bowdler Denise E Roberts Wolverhampton 9b 1327

Births Jun 1950 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Bowdler Joseph J Roberts Wolverhampton 9b 1321

Births Jun 1955 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
BOWDLER André A ROBERTS Wolverhampton 9b 1268

I've not found any Bowdler/Roberts births on FoD PRs or GlosBMD.

I do "feel" for the parents and hope that they weren't actually upset despite the claims in the paper ?. Was it pure coincidence they happened to meet the family afterwards at the Swan, just down the road from St Annals & St Stephens Church, and make it public in the paper ?. I wonder if a family member was a journalist at the paper ?
http://www.forest-of-dean.net/gallery/cinderford_2/pages/page_45.html

ps
I recall when one of my senior cousins (who by coincidence turns 60 this weekend) got married in secret at Gloucester Registry Office in the 80s. Given that everyone knew and liked his bride this caused considerable family upset at the time particularly with our grandmother, but he just wasn't and still isn't one for public "pomp & ceremony", hence sadly no "do" this weekend...

Some people didn't travel too far to find a wife/husband !!!!

In my tree

Two brothers/two sisters

Edwin Bown/Rhoda BAILEY - 1853
George BOWN/Kezia BAILEY - 1849

and the other two brothers/two sisters .........

Charles BOWN/Sarah RUSSELL - 1859
James BOWN/Ann RUSSELL - 1856

Bowdler siblings, still in the Littledean Hill/Cinderford area:-

Also from this site's PRs:
Record ID 339731
Entry Number
Year 1918
Month Oct
Day 28
Parents Surname BOWDLER
Child Forenames Eileen
Fathers Forenames Sidney Francis
Mothers Forenames Ellen
Mothers Surname
Residence Cinderford
Occupation provision dealer
Officiating Minister F W Baldwin vicar
Event Baptism
Memoranda born Sep 30
Notes
Register Reference P85/1 IN 1/3
Page Number 52
Parish Chapel Cinderford St John

Is this another silent "H" Ellen as remarked on another post this week , or maybe not given the daughter's name, Eileen ??

Record_ID: 332774
Entry_Number: 334
Year: 1906
Month: Sep
Day: 9
Parents_Surname: BOWDLER
Child_Forenames: Frederick Cecil
Fathers_Forenames: Sidney Francis
Mothers_Forenames: Helen
Mothers_Surname:
Residence: Dockham Road
Occupation: Insurance Agent
Officiating_Minister: W H M Hancock
Event: Baptism
Memoranda:
Notes:
Register_Reference: P85/2 IN 1/2
Page_Number: 42
Parish_Chapel: Cinderford St Stephen
Soundex: B346

Interesting to see that father Sidney was clearly a man of many talents, trying all sorts of jobs to support his family, good man !

Re Fred on the 1911 Census, from GlosBMD:
Groom Surname Groom Forename Bride Surname Bride Forename District Parish Building Year Register Entry
BOWDLER Frederick Cecil NASH May Forest of Dean Cinderford St John the Evangelist 1933 4 113

Record_ID: 1014548
Entry_Number:
Year: 1933
Month: Dec
Day: 26
Grooms_Surname: BOWDLER
Grooms_Forenames: Frederick Cecil
Grooms_Age: 27
Groom_Condition: bachelor
Grooms_Occupation: coal merchant
Grooms_Residence: Church Rd
Grooms_Fathers_Surname: BOWDLER
Grooms_Fathers_Forenames: Sidney Francis
Grooms_Fathers_Occupation: contractor
Brides_Surname: NASH
Brides_Forenames: May
Brides_Age: 22
Brides_Condition: spinster
Brides_Occupation:
Brides_Residence: St White's Rd
Brides_Fathers_Surname: NASH
Brides_Fathers_Forenames: Frederick
Brides_Fathers_Occupation: [decd]
Licence_or_Banns: Banns
Date_of_Banns:
Signature_or_Mark: Both sign
Witness_1: R T Bowdler
Witness_2: Frederick Nash
Other_Witnesses:
Officiating_Minister: C Paul Glidden
Event: Marriage
Memoranda:
Notes:
Register_Reference: P85/1 IN 1/7
Page_Number: 57
Parish_Chapel: Cinderford St John
Soundex_Groom: B346
Soundex_Bride: N200

Marriage from GlosBMD:
Groom Surname Groom Forename Bride Surname Bride Forename District Parish Building Year Register Entry
WILKINS Robert BOWDLER Eileen Forest of Dean Cinderford Woodside St Stephen 1939 3 174

Record_ID: 78748
Entry_Number: 174
Year: 1939
Month: Oct
Day: 15
Grooms_Surname: WILKINS
Grooms_Forenames: Robert
Grooms_Age: 25
Groom_Condition: Batchelor
Grooms_Occupation: Omnibus Driver
Grooms_Residence: 101 Bellevue Road
Grooms_Fathers_Surname: Wilkins
Grooms_Fathers_Forenames: John Moses
Grooms_Fathers_Occupation: Miner
Brides_Surname: BOWDLER
Brides_Forenames: Eileen
Brides_Age: 21
Brides_Condition: Spinster
Brides_Occupation:
Brides_Residence: Swan Hotel
Brides_Fathers_Surname: Bowdler
Brides_Fathers_Forenames: Sidney Francis
Brides_Fathers_Occupation: Licensed Victualler
Licence_or_Banns: Banns
Date_of_Banns:
Signature_or_Mark: Both sign
Witness_1: S W Giles
Witness_2: G Bowdler
Other_Witnesses:
Officiating_Minister: F W Potts Hicks Officiating Minister
Event: Marriage
Memoranda: 2nd Witness could be C Bowdler
Notes:
Register_Reference: P85/2 IN 1/8
Page_Number: 87
Parish_Chapel: Cinderford St Stephen
Soundex_Groom: W425
Soundex_Bride: B346

SO in 1939 just 3 years after the double wedding, father Sidney is a Licensed Victualler nearby at.... the Swan Hotel, well there's a "surprise" ... !
Methinks like many newspaper stories there's more to it than just the story... was he too busy running his pub and preparing the reception "spread" to attend the ceremony ?.

From FreeBMD:
Deaths Jun 1953 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
BOWDLER Sidney F 71 F.of Dean 7b 318

Ancestry free-search confirms this entry is Sidney Francis Bowdler, and also references a National Probate Calendar Entry.

Who's this ?

Record_ID: 1010775
Entry_Number: 316
Year: 1917
Month: Feb
Day: 1
Surname: BOWDLER
Forenames: Ellen
Residence: SuttonLittledeanGlos
Age_at_death: 39
Officiating_Minister: T.E.Buck
Event: Burial
Cause_of_death:
Memoranda: 281917
Notes:
Register_Reference: D6514 1/3
Page_No:
Parish_Chapel: Littledean Independent
Soundex: B346

Whoever she is I can't help thinking she's a relative. So there IS a place near Littledean called Sutton. Could she be Sidney's first wife Ellen, assuming of course Ellen died young and he remarried - no evidence at all yet altho her age seems right! ?. A little frustrating that the newspaper report only names "Mrs Bowdler" when full names are given to everyone else.

Re "Sutton", this PR confirms its a Littledean place afer all, I suspect this is the same Farm recorded as Barnham earlier, MUST check the maps. Unsure how this PR fits tho...

Record_ID: 7154
Entry_Number: 122
Year: 1915
Month: Sep
Day: 15
Surname: BOWDLER
Forenames: Sidney Francis
Residence: Baynham Farm Sutton
Age_at_death: 16
Officiating_Minister: F W Baldwin Vicar
Event: Burial
Cause_of_death:
Memoranda: By Coroners Order
Notes:
Register_Reference: P85/1 IN 1/15
Page_No: 16
Parish_Chapel: Cinderford St John
Soundex: B346

=================================================================================

I see on Ancestry theres a Member's Tree relating to this Marriage with a copy of the Marriage Certificate etc. I do hope they know about the Newspaper Article, perhaps another Ancestry subscriber reading this can advise them, please ?.

Thanks !, what a great story, and perhaps a perfect wedding arrangement from a purely practical & economical viewpoint such as perhaps a man might prefer ?.

From this site's PRS I see the grooms were from "my own" St Stephen's Parish:

Record_ID: 332839
Entry_Number: 399
Year: 1907
Month: Nov
Day: 17
Parents_Surname: BOWDLER
Child_Forenames: George James
Fathers_Forenames: Sydney Francis
Mothers_Forenames: Helen
Mothers_Surname:
Residence: St Annel's Road
Occupation: Collier
Officiating_Minister: W H M Hancock
Event: Baptism
Memoranda:
Notes:
Register_Reference: P85/2 IN 1/2
Page_Number: 50
Parish_Chapel: Cinderford St Stephen
Soundex: B346

Record_ID: 333228
Entry_Number: 788
Year: 1914
Month: Sep
Day: 10
Parents_Surname: BOWDLER
Child_Forenames: Reginald Francis
Fathers_Forenames: Sydney Francis
Mothers_Forenames: Helen
Mothers_Surname:
Residence: Sutton
Occupation: Collier
Officiating_Minister: J Martin Vicar
Event: Baptism
Memoranda:
Notes:
Register_Reference: P85/2 IN 1/2
Page_Number: 99
Parish_Chapel: Cinderford St Stephen
Soundex: B346

I don't know of any local Suttons, would this be Sutton Coalfield or even Sutton London, perhaps due to the War ?

From the 1911 Census, (free access on Ancestry still):
Five Room Household at Barnham Farm, Littledean, Glos

Sidney Bowdler Head abt 1882 29 Male Married 5yrs Farmer Littledean, Gloucestershire
Ellen Bowdler Wife abt 1883 28 Female Married 5yrs East Dean, Gloucestershire
Fred Bowdler Son abt 1907 4 Male East Dean, Gloucestershire
George Bowdler Son abt 1908 3 Male East Dean, Gloucestershire
Gladys Bowdler Daughter abt 1910 1 Female East Dean,
Nora Morgan Cousin abt 1895 16 Female servant Domestic East Dean, Gloucestershire

I see there are other Bowdler PRs around this time at Pleasant Stile, Littledean.
Re Barnham Farm, is this in any way related to what as kids we knew as "The Barn" upon top of Cinderford/Littledean Hill, we spent many happy days in the woods along there ?. I'll have a look at the Old Maps site later..

Oddly perhaps? I can only find one Marriage entry on FreeBMD:

Surname First name(s) Mother/Spouse/Age District Vol Page
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Marriages Jun 1936 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
BOWDLER George J Roberts Westbury S 6a 891
Roberts Lillian E Bowdler Westbury S. 6a 891

A little more detail from Glos BMD:

Groom Surname Groom Forename Bride Surname Bride Forename District Parish Building Year Register Entry
BOWDLER George James ROBERTS Lillian Estella Forest of Dean Westbury-on-Severn (FoD) Register Office 1936 22 150

Groom Surname Groom Forename Bride Surname Bride Forename District Parish Building Year Register Entry
BOWDLER Reginald Francis ROBERTS Beatrice Gladys Forest of Dean Westbury-on-Severn (FoD) Register Office 1936 22 151

No more obvious subsequent entries on FreeBMD for any of these four that I can see.
Searching Bowdler/Roberts Births after 1936 I find these which I think are theirs:

Surname First name(s) Mother District Vol Page
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Births Jun 1937 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Bowdler Marlene E Roberts F.of Dean 6a 467

Births Jun 1938 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Bowdler Keith Roberts F.of Dean 6a 480

And also these which perhaps link to "Sutton" Coalfield ?, are they related ?

Births Dec 1948 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Bowdler Denise E Roberts Wolverhampton 9b 1327

Births Jun 1950 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Bowdler Joseph J Roberts Wolverhampton 9b 1321

Births Jun 1955 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
BOWDLER André A ROBERTS Wolverhampton 9b 1268

I've not found any Bowdler/Roberts births on FoD PRs or GlosBMD.

I do "feel" for the parents and hope that they weren't actually upset despite the claims in the paper ?. Was it pure coincidence they happened to meet the family afterwards at the Swan, just down the road from St Annals & St Stephens Church, and make it public in the paper ?. I wonder if a family member was a journalist at the paper ?

Is between Littledean and Upper Soudley

http://www.forum.forest-of-dean.net/index.php?id=3537

I think that you will find that "Barnham Farm" is Baynham Farm nr Sutton Lodge.

Sutton Baynham Farm,
Sutton Road, Littledean,
Gloucestershire GL14 2TU

From London

1. Follow M4 and look out after J20 to ensure you fork left at Junction 21 to join the M48 to cross the old Severn Bridge. Once over the water, leave M48 immediately at Junction 2 marked Chepstow. Do not use new Second Severn Crossing as this takes you towards Newport.
2. *At top of slip road Exit right marked Chepstow.
3. Follow A466 to next roundabout - Exit right and proceed towards Gloucester on A48.
4. Just after Ayleburton turn right at roundabout and on towards Blakeney.
5. Downhill to Blakeney - Pub on Left (Cock Inn) - turn left immediately after Pub.
6. Travel approx 2 miles - through woodland - turn right under a low old railway bridge. There is no sign-post here!
7. Follow road through woodland to T junction at Soudley - turn right over stream.
8. Take next turning on left to Littledean.
9. Pass Soudley Ponds on right and Blaize Bailey forest walk.
10.Take next turning left marked Sutton Road (very sharp hairpin bend) and follow to the top of the lane- Sutton Baynham

--
Ἀριστοτέλης A Gloster Boy in the Forest of Dean ><((((*>

Hi
In my family tree
Benjamin POWELL/Jessy JONES
Hubert POWELL Louisa JONES
Sylvia

Please don't think I'm biased towards just researching the Bowdlers, but I can find little or no references to the Roberts brides in the various websites; except to say there are a heckuva lot of Roberts in the Forest, the name Lillian is a popular Roberts name and they may well be from Soudley area as per the original post, so not far from Littledean Hill.

Searching for brides parents "Mr & Mrs Albert Roberts" on FoD PRs, not surprisingly Albert is also a VERY popular Roberts name with plenty of possibles altho not in Soudley. Can't see any clear clues but these may be relevant....

This MAY be them given the location ?:

Record_ID: 78354
Entry_Number: 29
Year: 1912
Month: Jun
Day: 10
Grooms_Surname: ROBERTS
Grooms_Forenames: Frank Albert
Grooms_Age: 25
Groom_Condition: Batchelor
Grooms_Occupation: Wheelwright
Grooms_Residence: Minsterworth
Grooms_Fathers_Surname: Roberts
Grooms_Fathers_Forenames: Moses
Grooms_Fathers_Occupation: Signalman
Brides_Surname: JONES
Brides_Forenames: Laura Nell
Brides_Age: 20
Brides_Condition: Spinster
Brides_Occupation:
Brides_Residence: Cinderford
Brides_Fathers_Surname: Jones
Brides_Fathers_Forenames: Charles Edmund
Brides_Fathers_Occupation: Mechanic
Licence_or_Banns: Banns
Date_of_Banns:
Signature_or_Mark: Both sign
Witness_1: Harriet Ann Roberts
Witness_2: James Arthur Laycock
Other_Witnesses:
Officiating_Minister: J Martin Vicar
Event: Marriage
Memoranda:
Notes:
Register_Reference: P85/2 IN 1/7
Page_Number: 15
Parish_Chapel: Cinderford St Stephen
Soundex_Groom: R163
Soundex_Bride: J520

So this Albert Roberts claims he was born abt 1887.

Record_ID: 78722
Entry_Number: 148
Year: 1938
Month: Feb
Day: 12
Grooms_Surname: ROBERTS
Grooms_Forenames: Frank Albert
Grooms_Age: 30
Groom_Condition: Batchelor
Grooms_Occupation: Collier
Grooms_Residence: Abenhall
Grooms_Fathers_Surname: Roberts
Grooms_Fathers_Forenames: Albert
Grooms_Fathers_Occupation: Collier
Brides_Surname: GAZZARD
Brides_Forenames: Evelyn
Brides_Age: 22
Brides_Condition: Spinster
Brides_Occupation: Domestic Servant
Brides_Residence: Woodside Street Cinderford
Brides_Fathers_Surname: Garrard
Brides_Fathers_Forenames: Frank
Brides_Fathers_Occupation: Miner
Licence_or_Banns: Banns
Date_of_Banns:
Signature_or_Mark: Both sign
Witness_1: Ivor Verdse Twigg
Witness_2: Gladys Ivy Roberts
Other_Witnesses:
Officiating_Minister: F W Potts Hicks Officiating Minister
Event: Marriage
Memoranda:
Notes: Bride Signs Evelyn Gazzard Register could be Gazzard or Garrard.
Register_Reference: P85/2 IN 1/8
Page_Number: 74
Parish_Chapel: Cinderford St Stephen
Soundex_Groom: R163
Soundex_Bride: G263

Frank Albert Roberts was born "abt" 1908.

I think this might be them in the 1911 Census, from the names & occupations rather than the location, but there are other Albert Roberts abt Cinderford etc etc:

Four room Household at Yew Tree Patch, Plump Hill, Nr Mitcheldean, Glos

Albert Roberts Head abt 1881 30 Male Married 4yrs Collier Hewer, Below Ground East Dean, Gloucestershire
Lily Roberts Wife abt 1886 25 Female Married 4yrs East Dean, Gloucestershire
Lewis Phillips Boarder abt 1888 23 Male Single Collier Hewer, Below Ground East Dean, Gloucestershire
Albert Frank Roberts Son abt 1908 3 Male East Dean, Gloucestershire
May Lilly Roberts Daughter abt 1910 1 Female East Dean, Gloucestershire

Or how about this one also in the 1911 Census ?
Three room household at Roughet Lane, Little Dean.

William Roberts Head abt 1873 38 Male Married 11yrs House Keeper Underground, Little Dean, Gloucestershire
Eliza Roberts Wife abt 1880 31 Female Married 11yrs Cinderford, Gloucestershire
Dorothy Roberts Daughter abt 1903 8 Female Little Dean, Gloucestershire Henry Roberts Son abt 1905 6 Male Little Dean, Gloucestershire
Albert Roberts Son abt 1907 4 Male Little Dean, Gloucestershire
Alfred Roberts Son abt 1908 3 Male Little Dean, Gloucestershire
Winifred Roberts Daughter abt 1909 2 Female Little Dean, Gloucestershire

Possibly related, from the 1911 Census:
Three rooms household at Dockham Road, Cinderford, again correct locality.

Albert Roberts Head abt 1859 52 Male Married 22yrs Fireman At Colliery stationary Engine Cinderford, Gloucestershire
Sarah Roberts Wife abt 1859 52 Female Married 22yrs Cinderford, Gloucestershire

HOWEVER the Census shows NO children born alive to present marriage, altho perhaps it's possible this could have been misinterpreted as none still in household ?
They were married abt 1889.

Record_ID: 74396
Entry_Number: 15
Year: 1859
Month: Jan
Day: 30
Parents_Surname: ROBERTS
Child_Forenames: Albert Alfred
Fathers_Forenames: George
Mothers_Forenames: Ellen Mary Ann
Mothers_Surname:
Residence: Deans Hill
Occupation: Collier
Officiating_Minister: T.G.Smythies
Event: Baptism
Memoranda:
Notes:
Register_Reference: P85/1 IN 1/2
Page_Number: 2
Parish_Chapel: Cinderford St John
Soundex: R163

Record_ID: 332957
Entry_Number: 517
Year: 1909
Month: Nov
Day: 8
Parents_Surname: BOWDLER
Child_Forenames: Gladys Mary
Fathers_Forenames: Sydney Francis
Mothers_Forenames: Helen
Mothers_Surname:
Residence: St Annal's Road
Occupation: Collier
Officiating_Minister: J Martin Vicar
Event: Baptism
Memoranda:
Notes:
Register_Reference: P85/2 IN 1/2
Page_Number: 65
Parish_Chapel: Cinderford St Stephen
Soundex: B346

Record_ID: 1020321
Entry_Number: 242
Year: 1942
Month: Jun
Day: 17
Grooms_Surname: WAKEFIELD
Grooms_Forenames: Edward Glover
Grooms_Age: 25
Groom_Condition: Batchelor
Grooms_Occupation: Police Constable
Grooms_Residence: Police Station Cinderford
Grooms_Fathers_Surname: Wakefield
Grooms_Fathers_Forenames: William Edward
Grooms_Fathers_Occupation: Chief Superintendent of Police
Brides_Surname: BOWDLER
Brides_Forenames: Gladys May
Brides_Age: 29
Brides_Condition: Spinster
Brides_Occupation: Hotel Manageress
Brides_Residence: The Swan Cinderford
Brides_Fathers_Surname: Bowdler
Brides_Fathers_Forenames: Sidney Francis
Brides_Fathers_Occupation: Licensee
Licence_or_Banns: Banns
Date_of_Banns:
Signature_or_Mark: Both sign
Witness_1: Robert Wilkins
Witness_2: Edwin Wilkins
Other_Witnesses: William E Wakefield
Officiating_Minister: Frank N Wilkes Vicar
Event: Marriage
Memoranda:
Notes:
Register_Reference: P85/2 IN 1/8
Page_Number: 121
Parish_Chapel: Cinderford St Stephen
Soundex_Groom: W214
Soundex_Bride: B346

So now Gladys has taken the Swan's reins. Always good innkeeping practice to be "in" with the Law...

I see this farm's been mentioned in these prior threads, lot's of Family's History there !:

http://www.forum.forest-of-dean.net/index.php?id=16573

http://www.forum.forest-of-dean.net/index.php?id=3772

http://www.forum.forest-of-dean.net/index.php?id=7568

http://www.forum.forest-of-dean.net/index.php?id=3529

Hello!

I have just discovered your wonderful website as part of my family history research.

While I'm still in the early stages of my research I know that my grandfather's family come from the Forest of Dean and this is an area I'm anxious to explore further.

My great-grandfather was Oliver William Bowdler, birth registered in Littledean in 1883. He married Lilian Maude Evans in 1908. His father was George Godwin Bowdler, born in Flaxley in 1851. George Godwin married Sarah Jane Edwards (born 1854, East Dean) in 1873. I know from Census records that George was a gamekeeper, and then an innkeeper (the New Zealand Inn at Newnham).

George Godwin's children (to my knowledge) were Mary, William John, Tom Edwin, George Godwin (junior), Sidney Francis, Oliver William, Hubert Roy, Edwin Charles, Nellie Beatrice, Florence Ethel, and Anne Gwendoline.

I've seen some discussion threads here about Sidney Francis Bowdler, but if anyone has information about Oliver William Bowdler or any of this family then I'd be most grateful to hear from you.

Best regards,
JaneyH
Tunbridge Wells, Kent

Hello!

I've seen some discussion threads here about Sidney Francis Bowdler, but if anyone has information about Oliver William Bowdler or any of this family then I'd be most grateful to hear from you.

Best regards,
JaneyH
Tunbridge Wells, Kent

Name:Oliver Willie Bowdler
Date of Registration:Apr-May-Jun 1883
Registration District:Westbury on Severn
Inferred County:Gloucestershire
Volume:6a
Page:262

Year: 1883
Month: Jun
Day: 3
Parents_Surname: BOWDLER
Child_Forenames: Oliver
Fathers_Forenames: George Godwin
Mothers_Forenames: Sarah Jane
Mothers_Surname:
Residence: Sutton Bottom Cinderford
Occupation: Keeper
Officiating_Minister: W[illia]m Lynes Vicar
Event: Baptism
Memoranda: Born May 6 1883
Notes:
Register_Reference: P85/1 IN 1/2
Page_Number: 196
Parish_Chapel: Cinderford St John

1901 St Johns Cinderford / Blaize Bailey
George Godwin Bowdler abt 1850 East Dean, Gloucestershire, England Head East Dean, Gloucestershire Gamekeeper
Sarah Jane Bowdler abt 1854 East Dean, Gloucestershire, England Wife East Dean, Gloucestershire
Tom Edwin Bowdlerabt 1878 East Dean, Gloucestershire, England Son East Dean, Gloucestershire
George Godwin Bowdler abt 1880 East Dean, Gloucestershire, England Son East Dean, Gloucestershire
Sidney Francis Bowdler abt 1882 East Dean, Gloucestershire, England Son East Dean, Gloucestershire
Oliver Willie Bowdler abt 1884 East Dean, Gloucestershire, England Son East Dean, Gloucestershire Coal pump below groound
Hubert Roy Bowdler abt 1885 East Dean, Gloucestershire, England Son East Dean, Gloucestershire
Edwin Chas Bowdler abt 1888 East Dean, Gloucestershire, England Son East Dean, Gloucestershire
Nellie Beatrice Bowdler abt 1891 East Dean, Gloucestershire, England Daughter East Dean, Gloucestershire
Florence Ethel Bowdler abt 1894 East Dean, Gloucestershire, England Daughter East Dean, Gloucestershire
Anne Gwendoline Bowdler abt 1897 East Dean, Gloucestershire, England Daughter East Dean, Gloucestershire

1911 Blaize Bailey, Little Dean
Oliver William Bowdler 28
Lillian Maude Bowdler 26
Roland Dennis Bowdler 2
Dorothy Lillian Bowdler 1

THE LONDON GAZETTE, 4 FEBRUARY, 1921.

NOTICE is hereby given, that the Partnership
heretofore subsisting between us, the undersigned,
Oliver William Bowdler and James Watkins,
carrying on business as Automobile Engineers, at
Central Garage, Newnham, in the county of Gloucester,
under the style or firm of BOWDLER &
WATKINS, has been dissolved by mutual consent
as and from the 21st day of January, 1921. All debts
due to and owing by the said late firm will be received
and paid by the said Oliver William Bowdler.

—Dated the 22nd day of January, 1921.

0. W. BOWDLER
J. WATKINS.

baptisms on this site
1909 BOWDLER Dorothy Rosina Lilian Oliver Maude Baptism Littledean Independent
1921 BOWDLER Norman Oliver Lilian Maud Baptism Newnham
1921 BOWDLER Herbert Edwin Oliver Lilian Maud Baptism Newnham
1921 BOWDLER Elizabeth Mavis Helen Oliver Lilian Maud Baptism Newnham
1921 BOWDLER Sarah Jane Fedora Oliver Lilian Maud Baptism Newnham M
1921 BOWDLER George Godwin Oliver Lilian Maud Baptism Newnham
1921 BOWDLER Charles Edwin Oliver Lilian Maud Baptism Newnham
1921 BOWDLER Oliver William Oliver Lilian Maud Baptism Newnham

BMD's
Hubert E Bowdler 1911 Oct-Nov-Dec Westbury on Severn Gloucestershire
Elizabeth M H Bowdler 1913 Jul-Aug-Sep Westbury on Severn Gloucestershire
Sarah J F Bowdler 1913 Jul-Aug-Sep Westbury on Severn Gloucestershire
George G Bowdler 1915 Apr-May-Jun Westbury on Severn Gloucestershire
Charles E Bowdler Oct-Nov-Dec 1917 Westbury S Shropshire
Oliver W Bowdler Jan-Feb-Mar 1920 Westbury S Shropshire
Norman Bowdler Oct-Nov-Dec 1921 Westbury S Shropshire

possible Bowdler/Brooks offspring
Peter W O Bowdler Oct-Nov-Dec 1923 Cardiff Glamorganshire
Gordon A Bowdler Apr-May-Jun 1925 Cardiff Wales
Patrick W Bowdler Apr-May-Jun 1925 Cardiff Wales
Marion O Bowdler Apr-May-Jun 1926 Cardiff Wales
Ruth M Bowdler Jul-Aug-Sep 1927 Okehampton Devon, Cornwall, Scilly
Kenneth M Bowdler Jan-Feb-Mar 1929 Okehampton Devonshire

Name:Oliver W Bowdler & Beatrice M Manley
Date of Registration:Jan-Feb-Mar 1946
Registration District:Devon Central
Inferred County:Devonshire
Volume Number:5b
Page Number:119

Name:Beatrice M Bowdler
Birth Date:abt 1911
Date of Registration:Sep 1968
Age at Death:57
Registration District:Exeter
Inferred County:Devon
Volume:7a
Page:391

Name:Lilian M Bowdler
Birth Date:abt 1884
Date of Registration:Jun 1952
Age at Death:68
Registration District:Devon Central
Inferred County:Devon
Volume:7a
Page:335

Name:Oliver W Bowdler
Birth Date:abt 1884
Date of Registration:Mar 1953
Age at Death:69
Registration District:Devon Central
Inferred County:Devon
Volume:7a
Page:418

<><><><><>

Year: 1921
Month: Nov
Day: 16
Parents_Surname: BOWDLER
Child_Forenames: Oliver William
Fathers_Forenames: Oliver
Mothers_Forenames: Lilian Maud
Mothers_Surname:
Residence: Severn Street Newnham
Occupation: Motor Engineer
Officiating_Minister: F.H.V.Paton Vicar
Event: Baptism
Memoranda: Nov 25 1920
Notes:
Register_Reference: P228 IN 1/12
Page_Number: 64
Parish_Chapel: Newnham

Name:Oliver W Bowdler & June I F Jones
Date of Registration:Jul-Aug-Sep 1946
Registration District:Taunton
Inferred County:Somerset
Volume Number:7c
Page Number:575

Name:June Iris F Bowdler
Birth Date:2 Apr 1926
Date of Registration:Oct 2000
Age at Death:74
Registration District:Portsmouth
Inferred County:Hampshire
Register Number:D63A
District and Subdistrict:4971D
Entry number:229

http://www.bowdlers.com/

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Ἀριστοτέλης A Gloster Boy in the Forest of Dean ><((((*>

Norman Bowdler Oct-Nov-Dec 1921 Westbury S Shropshire

Name:Norman Bowdler
Birth Date:2 Oct 1921
Date of Registration:Feb 2006
Age at Death:85
Registration District:epping For
Inferred County:Essex
Volume:-1
Page:-1
Register Number:51C
District and Subdistrict:470/1
Entry number:170

possible marriage
Name:Norman Bowdler & Elizabeth A Davies
Date of Registration:Apr-May-Jun 1946
Registration District:Rugby
Inferred County:Warwickshire
Volume Number:6d
Page Number:2126c

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Ἀριστοτέλης A Gloster Boy in the Forest of Dean ><((((*>

Name:Nancy Salter
Mother's Maiden Surname:Ellacott
Date of Registration:Jan-Feb-Mar 1916
Registration District:Crediton
Inferred County:Devonshire
Volume Number:5b
Page Number:574

Name:Hubert E Bowdler & Nancy Salter
Date of Registration:Apr-May-Jun 1939
Registration District:Kensington
Inferred County:Middlesex
Volume Number:1a
Page Number:418

Possible children:-
Michael D E Bowdler Oct-Nov-Dec 1940 Devon Central Devonshire
Edward J Bowdler Oct-Nov-Dec 1941 Wells Somerset

Name:Hubert Edwin Bowdler
Birth Date:21 Oct 1911
Date of Registration:Sep 1979
Age at Death:67
Registration District:Plymouth
Inferred County:Devon
Volume:21
Page:1608

Name:Nancy Bowdler
Birth Date:5 Mar 1916
Date of Registration:Sep 1979
Age at Death:63
Registration District:Plymouth
Inferred County:Devon
Volume:21
Page:1697

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Ἀριστοτέλης A Gloster Boy in the Forest of Dean ><((((*>

Name:Marjorie J Scoble ?
Mother's Maiden Surname:Barne
Date of Registration:Jul-Aug-Sep 1916
Registration District:Exeter
Inferred County:Devon, Cornwall, Scilly
Volume Number:5b
Page Number:100

Name:Roland D Bowdler & Marjorie J Scoble
Date of Registration:Oct-Nov-Dec 1937
Registration District:Honiton
Inferred County:Devonshire
Volume Number:5b
Page Number:25

possible children
Lionel D Bowdler Jul-Aug-Sep 1939 Devon Central Devon, Cornwall, Scilly
Jocelyn M Bowdler Apr-May-Jun 1943 Devon Central Devon, Cornwall, Scilly

Name:Roland Dennis Bowdler
Birth Date:16 Jun 1908
Date of Registration:Sep 1974
Age at Death:66
Registration District:Liskeard
Inferred County:Cornwall
Volume:21
Page:0259

Name of Deceased:Marjorie Joan Bowdler
Death Date:14 Apr 2009
Obituary Date:22 Apr 2009
Newspaper Title:Western Morning News
Newspaper Location:Plymouth, Eng
Childrens' Names:Molly and Leo

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Ἀριστοτέλης A Gloster Boy in the Forest of Dean ><((((*>

THE EDINBURGH GAZETTE, MAY 24, 1932.

THE BANKRUPTCY ACTS, 1914 AND 1926.
FROM THE LONDON GAZETTE.
RECEIVING ORDERS.

Oliver William Bowdler, Chapel Cottage. Chawleigh,
Devonshire, formerly residing and carrying on
business at Upcott Farm, Meeth. near Hatherleigh,
in the said county, motor driver, late smallholder.

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Ἀριστοτέλης A Gloster Boy in the Forest of Dean ><((((*>

Hello!

I have just discovered your wonderful website as part of my family history research.

While I'm still in the early stages of my research I know that my grandfather's family come from the Forest of Dean and this is an area I'm anxious to explore further.

My great-grandfather was Oliver William Bowdler, birth registered in Littledean in 1883. He married Lilian Maude Evans in 1908. His father was George Godwin Bowdler, born in Flaxley in 1851. George Godwin married Sarah Jane Edwards (born 1854, East Dean) in 1873. I know from Census records that George was a gamekeeper, and then an innkeeper (the New Zealand Inn at Newnham).

George Godwin's children (to my knowledge) were Mary, William John, Tom Edwin, George Godwin (junior), Sidney Francis, Oliver William, Hubert Roy, Edwin Charles, Nellie Beatrice, Florence Ethel, and Anne Gwendoline.

I've seen some discussion threads here about Sidney Francis Bowdler, but if anyone has information about Oliver William Bowdler or any of this family then I'd be most grateful to hear from you.

Best regards,
JaneyH
Tunbridge Wells, Kent

Name:Sarah J F Bowdler & Cecil C Bolt
Date of Registration:Oct-Nov-Dec 1944
Registration District:Gosport
Inferred County:Hampshire
Volume Number:2b
Page Number:1270

possible children :-
Gerald H Bolt Jul-Aug-Sep 1946 Devon Central Leicestershire, Lincolnshire, Rutland
Helen J Bolt Oct-Nov-Dec 1949 Devon Central Devonshire

I can see a Sarah J F Bolt in 2002 in Havant so...

Name:Cecil Charles Bolt ?
Birth Date:31 Jan 1920
Date of Registration:Dec 1995
Age at Death:75
Registration District:Portsmouth
Inferred County:Hampshire
Register Number:D52A
District and Subdistrict:4971D
Entry number:52

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Ἀριστοτέλης A Gloster Boy in the Forest of Dean ><((((*>

Hello!

George Godwin's children (to my knowledge) were Mary, William John, Tom Edwin, George Godwin (junior), Sidney Francis, Oliver William, Hubert Roy, Edwin Charles, Nellie Beatrice, Florence Ethel, and Anne Gwendoline.

Name:Bridget Windmill & George Goodwin Bowdler
Date of Registration:Oct-Nov-Dec 1905
Registration District:Westbury on Severn
Inferred County:Gloucestershire
Volume Number:6a
Page Number:510

1911 Church Road, Cinderford
George Bowdler 31
Bridget Bowdler 27
Ivy Bowdler 7

son:-
Name:Frank E Bowdler
Mother's Maiden Name:Windmill
Date of Registration:Apr-May-Jun 1913
Registration District:Westbury on Severn
Inferred County:Gloucestershire
Volume:6a
Page:531

http://way-mark.co.uk/foresthaven/historic/47frez05.htm

Name:Frank Edward Bowdler
Birth Date:21 May 1913
Date of Registration:Jan 1992
Age at Death:78
Registration District:Gloucester
Inferred County:Gloucestershire
Volume:22
Page:2182

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Ἀριστοτέλης A Gloster Boy in the Forest of Dean ><((((*>

Slowhands - many thanks for your comprehensive set of replies!

I hadn't expected such a prompt response, so I must apologise immediately by saying that some of the material you provided I already have. (I have an online subscription to Ancestry so have been able to access BMD information and also Census records. For the record, Dennis Bowdler and Marjorie Joan Scoble were my grandparents.

It may be better if I start a new discussion thread focusing much more specifically on the questions I have.

Best regards, JaneyH

As reported by the Cardiff Weekly Mail of 19th November 1910:

"DROVE INTO A COW.
Sidney Bowdler, of Sutton, Littledean, was summoned in the local police-court for furiously driving a horse and trap at Flaxley. Henry Weaving, collier, Littledean, who was riding behind Bowdler on horseback, was charged with furious riding. Dorcas Beddis said it was not a runaway case. The men were urging the animals on at a gallop. Ida Winter, wife of Thomas Winter, put the rate at fifteen miles an hour. Round a corner the trap was on one wheel. Jenny Hammond said defendants ran into a cow, one shaft going through it. It bled very much. The horse went down, and the men fell out. Two other cows jumped over the hedge. William Phelps, a labourer, who was given a lift in the trap, said he was frightened at the speed, and when he told defendant cows were ahead, the latter said, "I don't care about a cow or two." Bowdler was fined £2 and £1.16s.6d. costs. The case against Weaving was next mentioned. Mr. Lane said after the decision in the previous case he pleaded guilty. Fined 5s. and 98, costs."

http://welshnewspapers.llgc.org.uk/en/page/view/3380578/ART111/bowdler

==============================================================================

Also found this possible relation while still searching for Bowdlers in the Welsh newspapers site,
from the Cardiff Weekly Mail of 20th June 1908:

"FELL DOWN A WELL.
EXTRAORDINARY STORY FROM DEAN FOREST.
His Honour Judge Ellicott at Newnham County-court on Wednesday concluded the hearing of the case in which Frederick Baghurst, landlord of the Ship Inn, Newnham, was sued by William Bowdler, Soudley, Forest of Dean, who sought to recover £100 as damages for personal injuries by defendant negligently keeping a well on his premises in a dangerous state. Plaintiff's case was that at the latter end of February last he was at the inn, and at eight in the evening, having used the urinal, was making his way back to the house, when he stumbled over the 18in. high protection around a draw-well, and fell head-long to the bottom. The lid of the draw-well was open, and there were no lights to point out the danger. The well, which was over 60ft. deep, was half full of water and, although plaintiff 'was got out alive' and was not very severely hurt, he suffered from shock and otherwise. The defence was that only just immediately prior to the accident the well cover was seen to be properly fixed over the opening. Both by suggestion, innuendo, and by a bold declaration on the part of one witness it was put forward that this was a deliberate attempt at suicide, the plaintiff him self having removed the lid from the well and jumped in, feet foremost. His Honour reserved judgment to the next court."

http://welshnewspapers.llgc.org.uk/en/page/view/3378948/ART183/bowdler

I was surprised to find only nine "William Bowdler" PRs in the FoD site database, I think these are the best "fits" for the above unfortunate William.

???

Record_ID: 339727
Entry_Number:
Year: 1918
Month: Sep
Day: 8
Parents_Surname: BOWDLER
Child_Forenames: William Thomas
Fathers_Forenames: William
Mothers_Forenames: Kate
Mothers_Surname:
Residence: Soudley
Occupation: collier
Officiating_Minister: F W Baldwin vicar
Event: Baptism
Memoranda:
Notes:
Register_Reference: P85/1 IN 1/3
Page_Number: 52
Parish_Chapel: Cinderford St John
Soundex: B346

OR PERHAPS ?

Record_ID: 25977
Entry_Number: 350
Year: 1917
Month: Oct
Day: 20
Grooms_Surname: BOWDLER
Grooms_Forenames: William John
Grooms_Age: 41
Groom_Condition: Widower
Grooms_Occupation: Farmer
Grooms_Residence: Wellington Grove Farm Sutton
Grooms_Fathers_Surname: Bowdler
Grooms_Fathers_Forenames: George Godwin
Grooms_Fathers_Occupation: Wheelwright
Brides_Surname: HOWELLS
Brides_Forenames: Rose Jane
Brides_Age: 37
Brides_Condition: Widow
Brides_Occupation: [not stated]
Brides_Residence: Ruspidge
Brides_Fathers_Surname: Grindle
Brides_Fathers_Forenames: William
Brides_Fathers_Occupation: Deceased
Licence_or_Banns: Banns
Date_of_Banns:
Signature_or_Mark: Both Sign
Witness_1: Edgar James Crockett
Witness_2: Sydney Francis Bowdler
Other_Witnesses:
Officiating_Minister: F W Baldwin Vicar
Event: Marriage
Memoranda:
Notes: Bride has signed Rose Jane Bowdler and this was corrected to Howells initialled FWB by the Vicar.
Register_Reference: P85/1 IN 1/6
Page_Number: 175
Parish_Chapel: Cinderford St John
Soundex_Groom: B346
Soundex_Bride: H420

(Note the witness Sydney Francis Bowdler).

?????

=============================================
Unfortunately I couldn't find anything wrt my main aim, i.e. to reinforce the Gloster newspapers story re the Maud and the workhouse.

I have previously posted on this forum trying to uncover details about my great-grandfather's service during WW1. Here's a quick recap so far:

Information suggesting he DID serve:
- 1922 newspaper article relating to court case, describing him as a "discharged soldier", receiving a pension
- family story handed down saying his experience as a miner meant he helped with digging trenches in France
- entry on the WW1 soldiers database on this website with his name, residence as Ruspidge, but no further information (I've been in touch with David Drinkwater separately about this and he's kindly explained the background to the database)

Information suggesting he DIDN'T serve:
- no medal index card or other information, either on Ancestry or National Archives
- no records on Forces War Records website or soldier listings on Glosters regiment website

I've now obtained a copy of the birth certificate for his son George Godwin Bowdler who was born in October 1915, and this shows Oliver William's occupation as "Private, 13th Bt Gloucester Regiment; coal hewer". So finally I have something more specific to place him in the Army.

I've done some quick searches on the "Long, Long Trail" website which shows that the 13th battalion was a pioneer battalion ... which, among other things, dug trenches. This would seem to bear out my Mum's story. The lack of Medal Index Card is still a concern, but I will shortly apply to the Western Front Association for a pension record search in the hope of uncovering more information.

Meanwhile if anyone on this forum has knowledge about the 13th battalion (which I believe was recruited mainly from the Forest of Dean) and its activities, then I'd love to hear from you.

Jane

The 13th battalion war diary can be read on this site

http://www.forest-of-dean.net/index.php/miscellaneous-documents

Gloucester Journal,
Saturday September 4, 1920

Gloucester City Petty Sessions

Friday.-Before Mr. E. Lea (in the chair), and Mr. G. Aldridge

Ronald Starforth, of 17, Claremont-terrace, Weston-Super-Mare, and Oliver W. Bowdler, of Severn-street, Newnham, were summoned for driving motor cars insufficiently illuminated on August 20th and 18th respectively. Bowdler was also summoned for not having his identification plate illuminated.-P.C.'s Tibbles and Stevens were the informing officers, and defendants were each fined £1.

Many thanks, Paul - I've recently come across that newspaper article.

There are a number of others, including the problems with his wife "wandering abroad" in Cinderford, debts, and dissolving his business partnership of Watkins & Bowdler at Central Garage Newnham. Later in life, when he moved to Devon, there are other articles - debt (again), the sad deaths of two children, and, in 1945, his divorce.

There are also two marriages for Oliver W Bowdler after his divorce in 1945:

Source: Findmypast

Jan-Mar 1946
Devon Central District
Vol-5b
Page-119
Line-59
Potential Spouse-Beatrice M Manley

and

Jul-Sep 1946
Taunton District
Vol-7c
Page-575
Line-41
Potential Spouse-June I Jones

Hi Paul,
I think Janey is already aware of those marrages, I believe they'e already been covered within these prior threads and his later life in Devon.
Apologies for not spotting this new thread until rather late in the day, thanks anyhow.

http://forum.forest-of-dean.net/index.php?id=11602
http://forum.forest-of-dean.net/index.php?id=43083

------

Hi Janey, regarding more information abt the 13th Glosters, please don't forget you can search the whole forum going back several years, it's a wealth of good information.

The base of this recent post contains links to an excellent website which gives great detail about the 13th Battalion.
http://forum.forest-of-dean.net/index.php?id=43593

also
http://forum.forest-of-dean.net/index.php?id=43062

Finally, sorry if I've missed something on the various threads abt Oliver, did you see this suggestion from Mike Pinchin re his WW1 Service ?
http://forum.forest-of-dean.net/index.php?id=43094

I realise this goes against your recent information ref the Marriage Recor, but it was perfectly possible for soldiers to transfer between Regiments, usually gaining a new Army Number as they did.

Regarding his apparent lack of a Medal Index Card, is it possible he never actually served overseas ?. If not then I don't think he'd be eligible for Medals, hence no Card.
Perhaps he stayed at a UK Depot, perhaps due to illness or some minor disability ? I know this differs from your family's story, but I guess no-one's family will want to publically admit their soldier stayed safe at home. Unlikely perhaps, but ???
http://www.1914-1918.net/soldiers/campaignmedals.html

David and Jeff - many thanks for the links to the 13th Battalion's war diary, and to other threads on this forum. I'll have a proper read when I have some quiet time (about to take son to rugby tournament now!)

Paul - I do indeed have those two marriages already. The marriage to Beatrice Manley was my great-grandfather (his second marriage, but third relationship resulting in children). The marriage to June Jones was his son, also Oliver William.

I'm aware that the lack of MIC points to not having served overseas; he would have been aged 31 by the start of the war so perhaps a little older than average to be posted to the front-line. Anyhow I'll add details as I have them; thanks to all once again.

Jane

You're welcome Janey, here to help if we can.
Just a thought I should have posted last night - is it possible Oliver's mean "misfiled" under say Bowler or somesuch, lots of room for mispelling his name I think ?. No doubt you have done but I recommend you searching thro ALL the Medal Cards etc that bear any resemblance whatsoever to his name, I've had success in this way in the past. I'd try and help you search but my route - TNA website - appears to be having a holiday weekend. Yes he is a little older than average, but in truth a great many men older than Oliver served in France, inclduing in the lines. I read last night that the our oldest frontline casualty was aged 67 !.
http://www.abroadintheyard.com/britains-oldest-ww1-frontline-casualty-soldier-aged-67-k...

Back to Oliver, I wonder if his special skills and age/experience meant he stayed in the UK but still "trench digging" etc ? There would have been plenty of opportunities for that work on the Home Front too, eg instructing new recruits at training camps, or helping build said camps etc where trenches would be needed for training and suchlike ?.
Then again, unfortunately there will always be cases of missing WW1 Records including the Medal Cards, I think they're considered to include about 90% of the total manpower, equating to abt 5 million men, very good coverage but still leaving maybe 50,000 unaccounted-for ?. By complete coincidence while just checking my numbers, my quick "google" with no mention of Oliver at all gave your thread on the WDYTYA website !
http://www.whodoyouthinkyouaremagazine.com/forum/topic10188.html

Contrary to the forecast it's bright sunshine and quite warm here in W.London, not rugby weather, hope its a bit cooler for you today and you all enjoy the tournament.
atb Jeff

"I've done some quick searches on the "Long, Long Trail" website which shows that the 13th battalion was a pioneer battalion ... which, among other things, dug trenches."

Another suggestion from the Long, Long Trail website is to search for soldiers through the 1918 Absent Voters List. Details of how to search are on the Long, Long trail site.

Hi again Paul,
thanks for your excellent advice again, altho' I'm afraid to say I THINK Janey has already tried this route - it was suggested in her post on the "WDYTYA?" forum which I mentioned in my post earlier - http://www.whodoyouthinkyouaremagazine.com/forum/topic10188.html

-------

Janey - I hope the rugby went well today, just a little battered but not too beaten ?

Reading your "WDYTYA?" thread you say your family have suggested Oliver was involved in Tunnelling under the lines ?. Have you followed this up at all ?.
If he was doing this I THINK - not certain - that he wouldn't have still been in the 13th Glosters. Afraid I haven't read their War Diary yet, clearly THE best source for the 13th; however from what I've read elsewhere (eg the "Malvern" site link I posted here yesterday), tunnelling wasn't part of the 13th Pioneers' work. Not surprisingly there were specialist Tunnelling Companies raised near to the FoD in Monmouthshire, but Oliver could also have transferred to them while in France. Despite tunnelling/undermining being an ancient Sappers skill in Britain, it was the German Army who first started it in WW1, yet it was the British (& Empire Allies) who deliberately recruited ex-miners etc into their Tunnelling Companies. If Oliver did transfer to a Tunnelling Coy then it's another reason for ensuring you doublecheck as many possible Medal Cards as you can find in case he's not shown as a "Gloster".
This prior thread discusses the Tunnelling Companies in more depth;
http://forum.forest-of-dean.net/index.php?id=41028

Finally, you mentioned your brief search of the British Newspaper Association BNA website. It may interest you to know that they've just made their site far more affordable, now offering monthly subscriptions at a very reasonable cost which will permit 200 downloads. Indeed one of the hits I've found today is a lengthy text-only article in the Gloucester Journal from 19th July 1919 which appears to detail the history of the 13th Glosters. I haven't downloaded it, yet, as I suspect it's one of the reference sources used by the "Malvern" site. I have today searched the BNA site for Oliver Bowdler (and spelling variations); as you know he gets a few mentions wrt his legal dealings !, both in Littledean and later in Devon. The only military mention I've found, while specifically searching the Glos papers 1910-1919, gave a possible relative in the same Blaize Bailey area ?. The search-engine hit shows

"Ruardean ... Bergt. Miles, Col.- Bergt.-Inst. W. Jones, Sergt. Bowers, Lance- Corpl. Webb. Corpl. Weaver, Sergt. Nelmes, Lance-Corpl. Bowdler, Pte. Weaving, Tyler."
Saturday 27 December 1913 , Gloucester Journal.

I'll download and post this in in full later.

13th (Service) Battalion, The Gloucestershire Regiment was raised December 1914 at Malvern. August 1915 to Winchester as Pioneer Battalion, 39th Division. September 1915 to Aldershot. Landed in France 3rd March 1916. Reduced to cadre 6th May 1918. Cadre transferred to 66th Division 16th June 1918. There's a bit more but of no significance.

Source: British Regiments 1914-18 Brig. E.A. James, OBE,T.D.

Mike,

I looked at that record for William Bowdler in the Monmouthshire regiment the other day and wondered whether it might be relevant.

Having just received the birth certificate stating Oliver was in the 13th Bt. Glosters I think I'm going to pursue that avenue for the time being. While he may have changed regiment at some point, the details from the birth certificate are the only thing I have so far which pins him down into any particular regiment.

Many thanks for your ideas, Jeff.

Rugby was great - son lost two teeth (wobbly ones that fell out, not knocked out - at aged six it's tag not contact rugby!)

Anyway, back to the family history. The issue of tunnelling under enemy lines I've always taken with a pinch of salt. It was only ever a vague story; I think the fact that the 13th Battalion was a pioneer battalion, drawn heavily from miners, and responsible for digging trenches, is enough of a connection. Anything more is probably embellishment down the years!

I'll keep doing various wildcard searches of different spellings of the name in the hope of finding a medal index card, but I accept that he may never have left England hence no medals. In the meantime I'll gamble £25 to see what the Western Front Association have in terms of pension records.

Jane

Hi Jane,
glad the rugby was enjoyable, that's the main thing !

Yes I agree it's possible Oliver's story may have been embellished to include tunnelling, that does sounds more "daring-do" than digging trenches, altho both were essential of course. However please don't discount it completely; the Tunnelling Companies were a real and very important part of the trench War, and the British Army deliberately searched-out ex-miners within the Army to transfer into the new Tunnelling Companies wherever possible. Please do take a look at the prior thread I included above, you'll see that apart from mending brokenlinks to more related forum threads, I've also added the Youtube link to a very interesting BBC documentary on the subject, strongly recommended viewing. Here's the Tunnelling thread link
http://forum.forest-of-dean.net/index.php?id=41028

Happy Hunting with your trawl thro' the Medal Cards, at least it's not an overly common surname, if you do find anything please tell us, thanks and good luck !

Just a quick update on my research into my great-grandfather, Oliver William Bowdler.

First, I've applied to the Western Front Association for his pension records (for those who may not have followed my exploits, a newspaper article from 1922 relating to a court-case refers to him as a discharged soldier in receipt of a pension). Unfortunately the WFA is inundated with requests at the moment - unsurprisingly - and they predict that mine will not be looked at for another couple of months.

Second - and of more relevance to other readers here - the National Archives has now digitised the War Diary of the 13th Batt. Gloucestershire Regiment; this can be downloaded from their website for the princely sum of £3.30. (The full reference is WO 95/2577/1.) More diaries are coming online every day practically - when I looked at this one just a couple of weeks ago it said it was for reference at Kew only.

Janey

Thanks very much for your update Janey, you're not the only one looking forward with interest to the release of Oliver's records. Your comments have been very helpfull too;

Wrt the War Diary being available to download from TNA, it's great that you included the specific WO (War Office) Reference. I say this as I've just received the monthly "WDYTYA" email newsletter, which proudly states "the third batch of WW1 diaries has gone online"
http://www.whodoyouthinkyouaremagazine.com/news/weekly-round-new-batch-ww1-unit-diaries...

I clicked this link hoping it would give a list of what units were now online, but to my surprise there wasn't that I could find, disappointing. I then searched WO 95 for "Gloucestershire" to see which of the Regiment's Diaries were online, but despite other Battalion's being found, to my surprise I couldn't find the 13th ?!. This was despite searching in various ways as per my previous experience of the TNA search engine. However thanks to you, searching specifically for "WO 95/2577/1" took me straight to it, all very odd...
http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/SearchUI/s/res?_q=WO%2095%2F2577%2F1

Please though don't forget that the 13th Battn Diary is already transcribed within this FoD site.
http://forest-of-dean.net/index.php/miscellaneous-documents

Wrt your comment abt the Western Front Organisation, thanks for reminding me that this is the only way to access these Pension Records, not the MoD anymore, and not from TNA or any online source. I also appreciated your helpfull post on the aforementioned "WDYTYA" site forum, clarifying the WFO only have access to the records just twice a month, hence the long leadtime.
http://westernfrontassociation.com/great-war-current-news/pension-records.html

Thanks again for your kindly help to us all.

Glad I was able to help - I've received so much assistance with my research on this and other forums so it's good to think I can give back a few nuggets of advice rather than simply asking for it!

My family tree software is groaning a bit at all the information I have about my Forest of Dean ancestors so I'm now in the process of writing it up into a proper narrative. As always, there are still big gaps and questions left unanswered, but I guess that's part of the fun. Once I get the pension records I'm not sure how much else I can do. I'm toying with the idea of a visit to Gloucester Archives to look at records for Westbury Workhouse. This might help me to piece together what happened to my great-grandmother: whether she stayed in the workhouse for long or was let out again. It could also show how long my grandfather (Oliver William's eldest son) and his siblings were in there for.

My Mum didn't know he had been in the workhouse at all so this piece of the jigsaw was quite a shock. She only knew that grandad had had a difficult childhood and had been looked after by "Aunt Mollie". Whether this was Oliver's own aunt (Mary Bowdler) or someone who worked at the workhouse is still a mystery. My Mum visited her in Cinderford as an elderly lady around 1950 and was bequeathed a set of silver hairbrushes when Aunt Mollie died. My grandad must have been fond of her as my Mum is named Molly!

By the way jefff, I read a comment of yours on another thread on here (I forget which) where you said you did have interests other than Bowdlers. I wondered if by that you meant that the Bowdlers were a particular interest of yours through family connections?

A quick - but only partial - update on the WW1 pension records for my great grandfather, Oliver William Bowdler.

I've just had an email from the Western Front Association attached to which are two pension record index cards (not the full pension records). Unsurprisingly the WFA is completely snowed under with requests, so on their latest visit to their store they only got as far as locating the index cards. All being well, this should lead to them finding the full records on their next visit. Of course there is no guarantee, but it is progress nonetheless. It's definitely the correct person, as it includes the address in Devon where Oliver lived latterly, and also includes the name of his widow (Beatrice - whom he married after having divorced my great grandmother).

Hopefully I'll have more comprehensive information to report in about a month's time.

Janey

I've finally received the pension records from the Western Front Association about my great grandfather, Oliver William Bowdler.

It confirms he was a private in the Gloucestershire Regiment, although doesn't mention the 13th Battalion specifically. The address given is Severn Street, Newnham - which I have from other sources. What it does give me, which I'm sure will be the spur to further research, is his service number: 17909. I've looked at the Army Service Numbers website and - although the block of numbers 179xx is not specifically referenced it would appear highly likely that Oliver's number would have been issued in the first quarter of 1915. The pension record shows that he was discharged on 16 June 1916, stating that he suffered from tuberculosis.

Most of the rest of the card is a list of dates and initials, which I assume refer to medicals to assess his ongoing health. In November 1920 it states that his degree of disablement was 70%; he received a pension (not gratuity or weekly allowance); payment of the pension was conditional (not permanent or final) and he received 28/- per week and his wife 33/3. It notes that he had six children aged under 16 at the time. In December 1921 the disablement was assessed as 100% and payments increased to 40/- for Oliver and 47/6 for his wife. In November 1922 disablement was assessed 80% and payments reduced. Judging by the dates on the card he continued to receive medicals (and presumably payments) until 1931.

The card also includes addresses in Wales, where Oliver moved to around 1922, so these will also help piece together the family history more generally.

Lots more to do and look up now - and fortuitously I have a day off work! As I've previously posted on the Great War Forum about this I'll add an update there too.

The website link posted by Slowhands for the photo of Frank Bowdler of Cinderford during the big freeze of 1947 is out of date, and should now read
http://way-mark.co.uk/foresthaven/historic/47frez05.htm

Thanks for sharing this link - I hadn't seen the photo before. Frank would be my first cousin twice removed.

My direct Bowdler line left the Forest in the 1920s, moving to Devon and then to Cornwall. No doubt there are some distant relatives still around!

You're very welcome Janey, apologies for my late reply.

The Way-mark site really is worth browsing, especially for anyone with Cinderford connections. Within the site's Living History section are a large number of colour photos taken in the 1970s, especially the "Goodly Heritage" section,
Start at http://way-mark.co.uk/foresthaven/livnhist/intro001.htm

Similarly the photos within the Living History section include several from Cinderford including most of the shops and shopkeepers, both 19th and 20th Century, plus early ones of the town's main buildings including some particularly rare ones of Double View School for example.
Start at http://way-mark.co.uk/foresthaven/livnhist/photo001.htm#

Cinderford is my home town so I'm clearly biased, but I've particularly enjoyed browsing thro' the "slides" section with dozens of colour shots taken in 1975, when I was just 13 and the town was thriving. Several show the rather random and charmingly old-fashioned origins of many of the town's buildings including your ancestor's fish shop.
http://way-mark.co.uk/foresthaven/livnhist/slide023.htm#

Re Frank Bowdler, I'm afraid I don't remember him, but I do recall his wife was Joyce Bowdler and in much later years there was a Jonathon Bowdler in charge of the town's fire station. I suspect he may be Frank's son, given this extract from Humphrey Phelps' highly-recommended book first published in 1982.

"Still in the High Street, Edwards and Sons, ironmongers. REAL ironmongers, hard to find these days. Mr Edwards is now the Officer in Charge of Cinderford Fire Station. It used to be Mr Bowdler, fishmonger and fryer. When he heard the fire alarm out he rushed, jumped in the butcher's van, back doors open, yards of sausages flying, and the butcher would leave his shop to attend to the fish frying - and so prevent another fire alarm."

I suspect the alarm was the same one still calling-out the Firemen in the 70s. It sounded just like a "Dad's Army" WW2 air-raid siren, and could be heard all across the town. I understand that sirens of this type were considered to be wise precautions for towns for Civil Defence purposes even after WW2. Since the late 1970s even Volunteer Brigades such as CInderford's had switched to using personal radio pagers, and thankfully the siren was never needed again since the end of the Cold War.

https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=Xk-IAwAAQBAJ&pg=PT142&lpg=PT142&dq=Bowd...

Re Edwards and Sons, the son Mr Arthur Edwards was legendary to us boys c1970. Always immaculate in smart brown overall, his shop was just along from our house and handy for window-shopping after getting off the school bus. He supplied our fishing tackle & licences, air gun pellets, Scout (and Girl Guide !) penknives, and such like. He was my dad's first source for all DIY hardware and even rarities from the back storeroom like the delicate mantle for our ancient oil lamp (the 1970s meant regular power cuts !). Yes, and fork handles too of course !. Arthur was a serious, firm but fair gent, deeply respected in the town, but always MR Edwards to me despite my being at school with his daughter, and living almost next-door. Sadly missed.

Thanks Janey for reminding me to revisit this excellent website, so many happy memories of those long summer holidays when the only worry for me was hay fever, it never rained in 70s summers !

Thanks so much for this - having some oral history always makes ancestors come to life. I think I must have omitted to tick the box to get an email notification when there was a reply, as I've only just seen this. We visited the Forest back in 2014 and I instantly felt at home. It was so special to be in the places my ancestors would have known.