Tonight's BBCFour TV, WW1 TUNNELLING Companies (General)

by Jefff @, West London, Middlesex, Monday, May 20, 2013, 17:53 (4199 days ago)

Many Foresters have ancesters who were miners before and during the Great War. Large numbers of these men volunteered to join the British Army, although in later months this was reduced as the Government realised the importance of maintaining mines output. When it was clear the War had settled into the "stalemate" deadlock of trench warfare, those soldiers with mining experience were often transferred to the "new" Tunnelling Companies being formed within the Royal Engineers. Indeed historically the RE had evolved from the Sappers & Pioneers that served centuries earlier, the lowest ranking soldiers are still called Sappers not Privates, and a Sap is the term for a form of trench.

This has been discussed here in the past, such as
http://forum.forest-of-dean.net/index.php?id=20751
http://forum.forest-of-dean.net/index.php?id=37883

(These and all other links are best opened into a new tab or Window)

Apologies for the late notice due to my sickly pc, but tonight BBC Four are showing a new documentary on this subject that hopefully will interest anyone with WW1 mining roots. First shown at 9pm, I believe it will be repeated later in the helpfull BBC Four manner, and available on the BBC iPlayer.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b01skvnh

Later update: This whole programme may now be viewed on Youtube
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vc9s3ZMYIec

The programme's excellent webpage includes a few film clips, plus some excellent resources links such as the ever-usefull Long Trail site. This shows the original eight Companies; as can be seen the second one formed, the 171st, drew on the men of Monmouthshire. It should also be noted that many of our ANZAC and Canadian allies served in their own Tunnelling Companies.
http://www.1914-1918.net/tunnelcoyre.htm

Another site is new to me but I will return very soon as it lists complete details of all the members of two of the Tunnelling Companies,
https://sites.google.com/site/laboisselletunnellers/home
Initial browsing these lists shows these brave men were drawn from Regiments from the traditional mining areas such as Notts, Durham, South Wales and so on.

I do hope this subject and programme is of interest, it certainly covers an element of the War that has been somewhat overlooked in the past, yet for many brave tough men this grim life was the daily norm.

WW1 TUNNELLING Companies - A B Clifford

by HarryBrook @, Tuesday, May 21, 2013, 22:41 (4198 days ago) @ Jefff

The programme briefly referred to the rescue of trapped miners and a photo was shown of a squad of rescue men wearing their Proto breathing apparatus. The tall slim man standing on the left end of the row was Corporal Arthur Bernard Clifford M.S.M. [Meritorious Service Medal], Royal Engineers, later better known locally as Mr. A. B. Clifford who headed the Forest of Dean Mine Rescue Service. The Rescue Service Station was in Dockham Road, Cinderford. A. B. Clifford died in 1961.

WW1 TUNNELLING Companies - A B Clifford

by Jefff @, West London, Middlesex, Tuesday, May 21, 2013, 23:44 (4198 days ago) @ HarryBrook

Hi Harry,
thanks for that. I hope you found the programme as interesting and touching as I did, a credit to all those concerned particularly the writer/presenter.

Has that photo been published in one of the Dean old photos books or similar ?. When I saw it the photo seemed very familiar to me but I couldn't think why ?; however at that second I was pondering the history of the company behind the mentioned Breathing Apparatus and wondering about their possible conflict of national roots (company was Siebe Gorman, invented first underwater diving helmets etc, and of German origin)).

Searching this site for AB Clifford shows he was one of the Bearers at the Funeral of the greatly-respected Doctor M.L. Bangara in 1927. He is mentioned in relation to the FoD St John Ambulance Association.
http://www.forest-of-dean.net/downloads/Stories_Articles/Dr_M_L_Bangara_Cinderford.pdf

PS Here's that photo and a brief mention of AB Clifford, clearly a man of considerable & deserved importance in the Mines Rescue field. It also describes in detail the working days of the WW1 Tunnellers.
http://www.healeyhero.co.uk/rescue/Collection/jl/WW1-1.htm

Further searching finds this excellent website which I'll enjoy studying in depth. It appears to be written by a descendant of AB Clifford and among many interesting things contains more details of his life and a few photos of his Dean Mines Rescue teams among others.
http://www.heroes-of-mine.co.uk/

AB Clifford taught Mines Rescue to Arthur BIBEY, 1923 - 1999

by Jefff @, West London, Middlesex, Wednesday, May 22, 2013, 01:40 (4198 days ago) @ Jefff

From the aforementioned website is this photo of the Cinderford Northern United Mines Rescue team of 1955 headed by AB Clifford, it also includes an Arthur Bibey. (update - for some reason the page no longer carries their names, Arthur is on far right of front row).
https://sites.google.com/site/minesrescuehistory/rescue-teams/no-1---adderley-green---1...

Twenty three years later an Arthur Bibey taught me the basic workshop skills of electrics & electronics at Ranks' Apprentice Training School. Facially I'm sure he is the same man as in the mines photo. In '78 I was special-ising in Mechanical engineering so didn't see as much of him as the Electrical lads did, a shame I now realise. I recall it seemed a little odd to us mere boys that despite appearing somewhat unfit with what seemed a smoker's cough, he was the official First Aider for that building (the old brewery, now the Mews, Mitcheldean). I knew from my paper-round days he lived in Cinderford but I knew nowt else about him. I wish I had known then that, despite his unlikely appearance, this cheerful & kindly gent had once been a good servant of Cinderford St Johns CC and, it seems, a mines hero too. On reflection I realise his slightly stooped stature and cough was very typical of the retired miners that were commonplace at RX and around Cinderford and the Forest in the 1980s.
I'm very sorry we were never able to chat over a pint about his times on our "hallowed" cricket field at lower Cinderford or the coal field immediately below it.

-----------------------

It's a shame that Mr Bibey barely enjoyed his deserved retirement, although he probably took early retirement from Ranks, he sadly passed away far too young like so many ex-miners.


Burial enquiry
Cemetery Yew Tree Brake
Grave Ref C-K28 1131
Name BIBEY Arthur James
Age 65 years
Address 28 Market Street, Cinderford.
Date of Death 10th December, 1988
Date of Burial 16th December, 1988
Place of Death Cinderford
Officiating Minister Rev. A. Fraser

Cemetery Yew Tree Brake
Grave Ref C-A42 1375
Name BIBEY Ruby Irene
Age 66
Address 28 Market Street, Cinderford, Glos
Date of Death 24th July 1991
Date of Burial 31st July 1991
Place of Death Dilke Hospital, Cinderford
Officiating Minister Rev G Bowyer

http://apps.fdean.gov.uk/OnlineCemeteries_Live/


And from GlosBMD;


Marriage Details
Groom Surname Groom Forename Bride Surname Bride Forename District Parish Building Year Register Entry
BIBEY Arthur James Donald BAKER Ruby Irene Forest of Dean Cinderford Woodside St Stephen 1950 4 154


From FreeBMD;

Surname First name(s) Mother/Spouse/Age District Vol Page
---------------------------------------------------------------
Births Mar 1923 (>99%)
---------------------------------------------------------------
Bibey Arthur J D Hunt Monmouth 11a 39


Possible siblings & parents ?

Surname First name(s) Mother District Vol Page
Births Mar 1913 (>99%)
Bibey Hilda C Hunt Bridgend 11a 1854

Births Mar 1914 (>99%)
BIBEY Benjamin J D Hunt Monmouth 11a 48

Births Sep 1917 (>99%)
Bibey Olwyn C T Hunt Monmouth 11a 31


Surname First name(s) Spouse District Vol Page
Marriages Dec 1912 (>99%)
Bibey William Hunt Bridgend 11a 1751
Hunt Laura S Bibey Bridgend 11a 1751

===================================================================================

RIP Mister Bibey.
Thanks to your good training and a few possibly "planned" accidental shocks off the Training School mains, rest assured I'm now a competent and above-all safety-minded Home & Car electrician.

WW1 TUNNELLING Companies - A B Clifford

by HarryBrook @, Wednesday, May 22, 2013, 07:37 (4198 days ago) @ HarryBrook

Hi Jefff
I believe the photo shown on the television programme was taken from the book "Beneath Flanders Fields - the tunnellers war 1914-1918" by Peter Barton (who presented the programme), Peter Doyle and Johan Vandewalle.
A photo of A. B. Clifford with a Forest mines rescue team appears on page 41 in "The Forest in Old Photographs" collected by Humphrey Phelps, Alan Sutton Publishing Ltd., 1983.
There is also an excellent biography of Arthur Bernard Clifford at
http://www.heroes-of-mine.co.uk/
Harry

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