Winifred Edith DALE 1914 Bream - Forest of Dean FHT Forum

Hi everyone

It may be a long shot, but does anyone know where I can find out if a Winifred Edith Dale died as a baby or a young child or whether she actually grew up?

The daughter of William Allen Dale and Edith May Dale, nee Preest. Born 19 June 1914 in Bream and baptised July 21 1914 in Bream. That's the info I got from the Parish records here. If Winifred did die as a baby, would you expect the burial record to be here too?
I can't seem to find a death record elsewhere that fits.

Hope this makes sense

Thanks from downunder

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A possible marriage on FreeBMD?

Marriages Mar 1938
Dale Winifred E Roper Gloucester C. 6a 563
Roper Philip C Dale Gloucester C. 6a 563

One likely child found:

Births Sep 1938
Roper Valerie I Dale Gloucester C. 6a 527

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That's wonderful Chris.

Thank you so much.

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These death records on Gene's Reunited give the birthdates of the couple (as given by the informants).

Name Philip Clement Roper
Year of Registration 1999
Month of Registration September
Registration District Gloucester
Registration County Gloucestershire
Date of Birth 01 March 1917
Volume Number 4831C
Volume Page C57

Name Winifred Edith Roper
Year of Registration 1999
Month of Registration January
Registration District Gloucester
Registration County Gloucestershire
Date of Birth 07 July 1916
Volume Number 4831A
Volume Page A59

Which is somewhat disturbing as you have "Born 19 June 1914"!

There is a lady by the same name born in Northamptonshire that this birthdate fits better.

EDIT Nope. Poor lass died at the age of two.

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Hi!

Thanks so much for pointing that out.

Yes, the poor lass is the exact one I thought this Winifred was at the beginning. What a coincidence or a mystery re the names.

Obviously more indepth investigation called for.

Thanks again.

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Name Philip Clement Roper
Year of Registration 1999
Month of Registration September
Registration District Gloucester
Registration County Gloucestershire
Date of Birth 01 March 1917
Volume Number 4831C
Volume Page C57

1851??
George Roper abt 1834 Witminster, Gloucestershire, England Servant Gloucester Holy Trinity, Gloucestershire

Marriage George Roper & Emma Marston
Date of Registration:Jan-Feb-Mar 1861
Registration District:Gloucester
Inferred County:Gloucestershire
Volume Number:6a
Page Number:359

Name:Edwin Roper
Date of Registration:Jul-Aug-Sep 1861
Registration District:Gloucester
Inferred County:Gloucestershire
Volume:6a
Page:229

ROPER Edwin
ROPER MARSTON
1861 Gloucester Gloucester, Kingsholm 9 84

1881 vessel = Magnet
Edwin Roper abt 1862 Gloucestershire, England Vessels, London Able Seaman

ROPER Edwin
MAYALL Rhoda
Gloucester Gloucester St Catherine
1882 27 No 2 26

1891 Westgate st Gloucester
Daniel F Orchard abt 1856 Parish of St Nicholas Head
Matilda Orchard abt 1860 Maisemore Wife
Clara F Orchard abt 1884 Parish of St Nicholas Daughter
Alfred C Orchard abt 1886 Parish of St Nicholas Son
John Charley abt 1876 Newent Servant

{ROPER family below}
Rhoda Orchard abt 1864 Gloucestershire, England Wife
Edwin Orchard abt 1884 Gloucestershire, England Son
Philip Orchard abt 1886 Gloucestershire, England Son
Sydney Orchard abt 1888 Gloucestershire, England Son
Ethel Orchard abt 1888 Gloucestershire, England Daughter
Phillip Mayall abt 1821Tewkesbury Father
Elizabeth Mayall abt 1821 Tewkesbury Mother

1901 Hare Lane Gloucester
Edwin Poper abt 1860Gloucestershire, EnglandHeadGloucester, Gloucestershire
Rhoda Poper abt 1863Gloucestershire, EnglandWife
Edwin Poper abt 1883Gloucestershire, EnglandSon
Philip Poper abt 1885Gloucestershire, EnglandSon
Sidney Poper abt 1887Gloucestershire, EnglandSon
Ethel Poper abt 1890Gloucestershire, EnglandDaughter
Hilda Poper abt 1893Gloucestershire, England Daughter
Ida Poper abt 1895 Gloucestershire, England Daughter

ROPER Philip
HOOPER Elizabeth
Gloucester Gloucester Register Office
1907 21 28

1911 No 2 Wellington Terrace, London Rd, Glouester
Philip Roper 25
Elizabeth Roper 24
Ethel Roper 3
Philip Edward Roper 4/12
Emma Hooper 54
Frederick Bullock 30

Name:Philip C Roper
Mother's Maiden Surname:Hooper
Date of Registration:Jan-Feb-Mar 1917
Registration District:Gloucester
Inferred County:Shropshire
Volume Number:6a
Page Number:494

Re Winifred Edith's age

She is older than Philip, perhaps the family adjusted her age to be closer to Philip's ? I have seen "years" change before , not sure about the birth date, but again perhaps the person supplying the days to the Registrar did not know for sure...

--
Ἀριστοτέλης A Gloster Boy in the Forest of Dean ><((((*>

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Thank you for this. Muchly appreciated as always.

Yes, I've seen "years" change too. One of my Aussie forebears mysteriously changed from 1888 on her birth and marriage certificates to 1891 when she died. Again, why remains a mystery really.

Winifred's sister Doris certainly lost 3 or 4 years on her second marriage certificate in 1961 for the reason of her husband being younger. Maybe it was a family trait!

Thanks again.

Yes, that's definitely them. I just found a death record for the first little Philip Roper - Philip Edward - registered in the Sept 1911 quarter. So that's why they named a second son Philip as well.

Re Winifred's birth date. She was baptised in July. Maybe that's where some confusion arose.#

Cheers.

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Hi again D-U,
really pleased this has sorted itself out. Must admit my instinct yesterday was we were following the correct Winifred and as you've found elsewhere sometimes dates did vary even in modern/recent times. In fact it was only after she died that we discovered my grandmother had always believed her birthday was four months before it really was, but we've not thought of any logical reason why.

Anyhow, good luck with your continued researches.

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Reminds me of my great great Cornish grandmother who is variously Mary Jane Murley, Ellen Jane Murley, Ellen Jane Hunley and Ellen Jane Unley on her children's Aussie birth certificiates. Take your pick! (Ellen Jane Murley is the correct one, but hey it was a rough Qld frontier town, I don't think spelling was their primary concern at the time)

Anyway, thanks again for your help.

Cheers from a chilly Qld

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Sorry everyone for the bother. Have just found her myself. Sometimes I am SO SLOW and ignore the obvious....

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No problems D,
even geniuses like what I am mayke embarussing mistakes sometimes.
After all someone has to keep the forum's top people on their toes ;-)

The above Marriage gains a little more detail from the GlosBMD site, don't know if you use it at all ?

Marriage Details

Groom Surname Groom Forename Bride Surname Bride Forename District Parish Building Year Register Entry
ROPER Philip Clem DALE Winifred Edith Gloucester Gloucester St Mark 1938 31 No 8 175
http://ww3.gloucestershire.gov.uk/bmd/SimpleSearch.aspx

This site doesnt have the above Birth or any others tho ?.
However it "suggests" that Philip is a traditional ROPER family name in the Gloster/Cheltenham area before and since.

Think this is your Philip from FreeBMD:

Surname Given Name Mother District Volume Page Transcriber
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Births Mar 1917
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Roper Philip C. Hooper Gloucester 6a 494 tomick

Suggesting this Marriage from GlosBMD:

Groom Surname Groom Forename Bride Surname Bride Forename District Parish Building Year Register Entry
ROPER Philip HOOPER Elizabeth Gloucester Gloucester Register Office 1907 21 28

But I suspect you already knew these.

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Thanks again. This is exactly what I needed.

No, I didn't have any of this info about the Ropers. I only realised that Winifred Edith was part of this particular Dale family last night.

Muchly appreciated from way off in OZ.

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I should add that I'm just getting used to the GlosBMD site and thank you for the link.

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No probs D, pleased to help. Yes I see what angle you're coming from now.

From Ancestry's free search page (I'm not a susbcriber but still info is there) are these two Death Index Entries:
Philip Clement Roper of Gloucester in 1999, and
Winifred Edith Roper of Gloucester also 1999.

Also from GlosBMD:

Marriage Details

Groom Surname Groom Forename Bride Surname Bride Forename District Parish Building Year Register Entry
HALL Ronald Augustus Albert ROPER Valerie Irene Gloucester Gloucester St Catherine 1959 27 No 8 75

(Re GlosBMD etc, this prior thread may help you, it's a useful site to use and much cleverer than FreeBMD insofar as it copes with spelling variations etc. However it has it's limitations eg doesnt cover many Death records and certainly not very recently; so in my opinion it's best to use all available sites in combination.)
http://www.forum.forest-of-dean.net/index.php?id=35296

ATB with your continued researches from UpAbove, off now to check up on how the England Cricketers are doing in their preparations for their usual Aussie thumping ;-)

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Thanks ever so much for the info and the links.

I wouldn't be too sure about your team getting a thumping though. Ours hasn't been looking too flash lately either.

Muchly appreciate your help.

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I think you may (possibly) have misread my post....
Failing that you're far too witty, amiable and clever for an Aussie ;-)
You MUST have Forest roots !

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Yes, definitely Forest blood

The amiable and clever and witty bits

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Fair enuff, I thought so.

Nice chatting with you, however may I suggest we both delete our last few chat posts to leave a proper FH thread behind. Also you may not know that the threads are automatically locked after 20 posts and I dont want anyone else to be stopped from answering your queries. This is why I prefer to edit & so add to my old posts when possible rather than add new short ones, to keep the post count down.
I'll delete a few of my posts soon, suggest you do too. Cheers !

LATER UPDATE, Fri 20.55
To my surprise it seems I cannot delete my own posts, just edit them.
Must have been getting confused with another forum I use.
Sorry to mislead you.

And FAR worse, from Chris's post it looks like we're following the wrong Winifred.....

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Thanks

will do.

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Hi!

Yes, it could be the wrong Winifred. On the other hand, a very nice lady on another forum said not to always put complete faith in the birth dates on death certificates. I know from an Aussie point of view that there's incorrect birth dates on a few of my great-grandparents' certificates.

I'll send for the marriage certificate of Winifred and Philip which will give the name and occupation of her father. That should settle it.

Thanks so much for the interest. It's great to chat when you're doing things from such a distance.

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Forest of Dean FHT Forum

Winifred Edith DALE 1914 Bream (General)

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