Hi

My wifes Great Great Grandmother was born in Coleford circa 1868.

At the time of the 1891 and 1901 census she was living in Surrey where she worked as a maid. On both census her place of birth is recorded as Coleford. Her age on them would give a year of birth of c.1868

Her marriage certificate has a father, (deceased) James Williams.

With this info I searched site and came up with the following who fits the bill:

Record_ID: 68980
Entry_Number: 107
Year: 1867
Month: Nov
Day: 3
Parents_Surname: WILLIAMS
Child_Forenames: Annie
Fathers_Forenames: James
Mothers_Forenames: Julia
Mothers_Surname:
Residence: Clearwell Meend
Occupation: Miner
Officiating_Minister: H L Perry Vicar
Event: Baptism
Memoranda:
Notes:
Register_Reference: P88 IN 1/2
Page_Number: 14
Parish_Chapel: Clearwell
Soundex: W452

Using the parents names I decided to look for siblings and found the following:

Esther/Emma 1859
George 1860
Elizabeth 1860
James 1864
Frederick 1866
Anne 1867
Alice 1869
Thomas 1872
Sarah 1875
Fanny 1876
Nancy 1878

With this info the family is pretty easy to find on the various census records. However its the 1861 census that causes the problems.

The wifes brothers John and Alfred owen are staying with the family. I had already done a search for the parents marriage record and thought I had the perfect match:

Record_ID: 3500
Entry_Number: 13
Year: 1858
Month: Aug
Day: 15
Grooms_Surname: WILLIAMS
Grooms_Forenames: James
Grooms_Age: 20
Groom_Condition: Bachelor
Grooms_Occupation: Miner
Grooms_Residence: Clearwell
Grooms_Fathers_Surname: Williams
Grooms_Fathers_Forenames: James
Grooms_Fathers_Occupation: Labourer
Brides_Surname: HOWARD
Brides_Forenames: Julia
Brides_Age: 22
Brides_Condition: Spinster
Brides_Occupation:
Brides_Residence: Clearwell
Brides_Fathers_Surname: Howard
Brides_Fathers_Forenames: Thomas
Brides_Fathers_Occupation: Mason
Licence_or_Banns:
Date_of_Banns: Banns
Signature_or_Mark: They both mark
Witness_1: Mark of Henry Williams
Witness_2: Mark of Harriet Howard
Other_Witnesses:
Officiating_Minister: Howard L.Parry Incubent
Event: Marriage
Memoranda:
Notes:
Register_Reference: P88 IN 1/17
Page_Number: 7
Parish_Chapel: Clearwell
Soundex_Groom: W452
Soundex_Bride: H630

SO now I have two possible surnames for Julia. COuld there be an error? I ask as I cant find any record of a James WIlliams marrying a Julia Owen.

Any assistance would be very welcome.

Thanks

Conor

Hi

I'd say this is the baptism of Harriet, witness to Julia's marriage and the father of both is Thomas, so they're no doubt sisters. But you'd know this already I'm sure.

Record_ID: 115634
Entry_Number: 179
Year: 1839
Month: Nov
Day: 17
Parents_Surname: HOWARD
Child_Forenames: Harriet
Fathers_Forenames: Thomas
Mothers_Forenames: Hester
Mothers_Surname:
Residence: Clearwell
Occupation: Mason
Officiating_Minister: H. W. Sheppard Curate
Event: Baptism
Memoranda:
Notes:
Register_Reference: 8811
Page_Number: 23
Parish_Chapel: Clearwell
Soundex: H630

Gloucestershirebdm

http://ww3.gloucestershire.gov.uk/bmd/

WILLIAMS birth - Forest of Dean, Monmouth, Coleford : Mother's maiden name OWEN & OWENS

George - 1860
Elizabeth - 1860 (these are twins)

James - 1863

Frederick - 1864

Annie - 1867

Alice - 1869

Sarah Ann - 1873

Thomas - 1872 (OWENS)

-

There is an Emma WILLIAMS age 2 on the 1861 census -

Emma is not listed as OWEN on Glosbdm

---

1861 Census - Newland

WILLIAMS

James - 22
Julia - 24 - born Clearwell
Emma - 2

Elizabeth and George - under 5 months

John OWEN - 19 - born Clearwell
Alfred OWEN - 12 - born Clearwell

---

Julia c 1837 - born Clearwell
John c 1842 - born Clearwell
Alfred c 1849 - born Clearwell

---
??
Fod Records

Baptism at Clearwell - 25 October 1835

Julia OWEN

parents Thomas (occupation: MASON) & Esther

residence: Clearwell Meend

and brother John: 12 November 1837 - (born 2nd October) -

--

Must be on earlier census' together - needs some work.

Gloucestershirebdm do have

Alfred HOWARD - mother's maiden name DOWARD - 1849 - Forest of Dean, Monmouth, Coleford

Then we have the 1851 Census (think there's been a SURNAME switch here....)

HOWARD

Thomas - 47 - Master Stonemason born Newland
Thomas - 19
Julia - 15
John - 13
Hariet - 11 (witness at wedding)
George - 8
Emma - 5
Alberd - 1

Thank you both for your replies.

I have identified all the Children on the GlousterBMD and the Mothers Surname is Owen.

Child Surname Child Forename Father Surname Mother Surname Mother's Former Name Year District Office Register Entry
WILLIAMS Alice WILLIAMS WILLIAMS OWEN 1869 Forest of Dean Monmouth, Coleford 25 424
WILLIAMS Annie WILLIAMS WILLIAMS OWEN 1867 Forest of Dean Monmouth, Coleford 23 209
WILLIAMS Elizabeth WILLIAMS WILLIAMS OWEN 1860 Forest of Dean Monmouth, Coleford 16 262
WILLIAMS Fanny WILLIAMS WILLIAMS OWEN 1875 Forest of Dean Monmouth, Coleford 33 112
WILLIAMS Frederick WILLIAMS WILLIAMS OWEN 1864 Forest of Dean Monmouth, Coleford 20 55
WILLIAMS George WILLIAMS WILLIAMS OWEN 1860 Forest of Dean Monmouth, Coleford 16 261
WILLIAMS James WILLIAMS WILLIAMS OWEN 1863 Forest of Dean Monmouth, Coleford 18 337
WILLIAMS Lavinia WILLIAMS WILLIAMS OWEN 1877 Forest of Dean Monmouth, Coleford 35 248
WILLIAMS Sarah Ann WILLIAMS WILLIAMS OWEN 1873 Forest of Dean Monmouth, Coleford 30 361
WILLIAMS Thomas WILLIAMS WILLIAMS OWENS 1872 Forest of Dean Monmouth, Coleford 28 424

For Esther/Emma Williams the Mother is Howard.

Child Surname Child Forename Father Surname Mother Surname Mother's Former Name Year District Office Register Entry
WILLIAMS Hester WILLIAMS WILLIAMS HOWARD 1858 Forest of Dean Monmouth, Coleford 14 266

The problem is, although Emma/Esther has a different Mothers Surname she is still living with the family in the 1861 Census and 1871 Census.

The other problem is that I can find no record whatsoever of a James Williams marrying a Julia Owen. Confused.com haha

In earlier reply, gave Alfred HOWARD - 1849 - mother's maiden name DOWARD from the Gloucestershire bdm **
and William HOWARD - christened 1842 - at Clearwell - parents Thomas & Esther (Glosbdm - mother's maiden name DOWARD)

?

Marriage at St Briavels - 26 July 1834

Thomas HOWARD - Bachelor, Hundred of St Briavels

married

Hester DOWARD - Spinster, Hundred of St Briavels

witnesses: mark of John WRIGHT and Margaret HOWELLS **

This could be Margaret's sister as Fod Records - Marriage at St Briavels - 16 June 1832 - Joseph HOWELL Bachelor, Hundred of St Briavels, married Margaret DOWARD - Spinster, Hundred of St Briavels.

Baptism at Newland - 26 November 1809 - Margaret DOWARD - William & Esther of Clearwell (same parents as Hester)

---

Here they are on the 1841 Census, Clearwell

Calling themselves HOWARD (Alias were common for whatever reason..?sometimes illigitimate and mother marries again - but the child keeps the mother's maiden name - or in the case of my x grandfather - was running away from debt and reverted to his grandmother's maiden name)

Thomas - 35
Esther - 25
Thomas - 9
Juley - 5
John - 3
Harriot - 1

Baptism at Clearwell - 12 November 1837

John OWEN - parents Thomas (Mason) - & Esther : residence, Clearwell Meend

Baptism at Clearwell - 17 November 1839

Harriet HOWARD - parents Thomas (Mason) & Hester

----

Esther died not long after Alfred was born as Fod

Burial at Newland - 1 May 1849

Hester HOWARD of Clearwell aged 37 (=c1812)

wife of Thomas HOWARD

---

FoD

Baptism at Bream - 6 November 1814

Esther DOWARD - parents William (Collier) & Esther

residence: Clearwell