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Hi, does anyone know the surname please of Eliza, wife of John Potter.
So far I know:
John Potter (1831), born Norton, near Bromyard. Was an engine driver who had a nasty accident.
Wife Eliza, born Gorsley, Linton (1835)
Daughter Ann Potter (1862 born Norton)
Son James Potter (1864 Norton)
They lived in Bromyard in the 1871 census.

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Hi Liz,
as I'm sure you have done, I've searched this website's database very thoroughly - using the great Advanced Search feature to find name spelling variations such as Porter etc - but to no avail. This didnt surprise me as I knew Bromyard was just outside of our coverage area. However I had checked to see if Norton Parish was covered by the site's PRs, and thought it was
see http://www.forest-of-dean.net/cgi-bin/transcripts/transcripts_2.cgi

HOWEVER I forgot to check this parish Map, which clearly shows "our" Norton is a different one to yours !. http://www.forest-of-dean.net/index.php/forest-of-dean-parish-map

I had wondered if the Potters' apparent absence from our PRs meant they were non- Conformists, but the only relevant website I can access is the Glos Archives one which doesn't cover Herefordshire.

What I should have done is lookup my old favourite site for learning about a "new" area wrt Victorian times, Genuki. This clearly shows there are quite a few "Norton"s around the country (I just wish I had one here, a 50's motorbike that is !!, sorry...)
http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/HEF/Bromyard/Gaz1868.html

??

So..., sadly, your POTTERS aren't covered by this FoD site and, as we've discussed in the past, Herefordshire is poorly served by online FH sites. I think you need to use the likes of Ancestry, or LDS (aka Latterday Saints or now called "FamilySearch") will give excellent results and without costs, if you've not used that site I strongly recommend you try it, can be time consuming but invariably worthtrying. This prior thread may help you wrt these sites.
http://forum.forest-of-dean.net/index.php?id=35296

Also the Herefordshire FHSociety may be worth contacting; http://www.herefordshirefhs.org.uk/

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Ancestry have two baptisms for children of John and Eliza POTTER - baptism place, Bromyard, Hereford

Anne - 16 May 1862
Harriet - 1867 - (didn't survive)

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1871 Census, Civil Parish: Bromyard, Herefordshire

Nunwell Street

POTTER

John - 36 - Engine Driver - born, Norton, Herefordshire
Eliza - 36 - born Linton Brom
James - 7 - born Norton
Annie - 9 - born Norton

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1851 - Civil Parish: Norton with Brockhampton

POTTER

Sarah - 59 - Pauper, born Stoke Bliss, Herefordshire
Ann - 28 - born Norton
John - 19 - born Norton

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1841 England Census
HO107/418/11; Folio: 6; Page: 7
Norton, Bromyard, Herefordshire

Thomas Potter - 65 - Ag Lab - Y
Sarah Potter - 48 - Y
John Potter - 10 - Y
Ann Potter - 18 - Y
Jane Potter - 17 - Y

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That's very helpful thank you. I see the beginnings on this side of the family get lowlier and lowlier! Regards

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Hi again,
just realised Eliza's quoted birthplace Linton IS covered by this site's PRs. Of course Eliza is a common name, not to mention Elizabeth, Betty, etc; plus the projected birth year may well be slightly out, but here's a few POSSIBLES from this site's PRs. I found these using the wondrous Advanced Seach" feature, one of it's many great advantages are you can search without knowing a surname, for example.

Record_ID 238003
Entry_Number
Year 1835
Month Apr
Day 12
Parents_Surname MARSHALL
Child_Forenames Eliza
Fathers_Forenames James
Mothers_Forenames Mary
Mothers_Surname
Residence Linton
Occupation Carpenter
Officiating_Minister
Event Baptism
Memoranda
Notes
Register_Reference AR91/5
Page_Number
Parish_Chapel Linton
Soundex M624

Record_ID 238011
Entry_Number
Year 1835
Month Dec
Day 26
Parents_Surname JONES
Child_Forenames Eliza
Fathers_Forenames John
Mothers_Forenames Elizabeth
Mothers_Surname
Residence Linton HIll
Occupation Labourer
Officiating_Minister
Event Baptism
Memoranda
Notes
Register_Reference AR91/5
Page_Number
Parish_Chapel Linton
Soundex J520

BUT Clearly a lot more work needed !

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I really should have tried this earlier !
searching FreeBMD for their possible marriage ? Sadly a lot to choose from but NONE obviously in our area ??
ALSO such a shame their two births just fall before the FreeBMD (GRO) coverage started in 1837 !

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took a while….. but here they are on the 1861 - as Mum Sarah POTTER - born Stoke Bliss is with them…. (see 1851 census previous reply)

1861 Census, - Civil Parish: Norton

Down Cottage, District 8 b - page 16 of 19

PATTER

John - 27 - Tanners Labourer, born Norton Herefordshire
Eliza - 25 - born Norton, Herefordshire
Sarah PATTER, mother-in-law - 76 - born Stoke Bliss

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That's very helpful, thanks

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Thanks for that, I'm finding a lack of marriages on this side of the family. I think they just changed their names and moved to a new area!

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Great information, thanks very much for your help. Yes I too was mistaken and thought it was the Linton near Ross. Only just realised yesterday it meant the area adjacent to Bromyard. Regards

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I am wondering about this marriage:

Marriages Dec 1860
Field Eliza Worcester 6c 443
Potter John Worcester 6c 443

...and this baptism?

Name: Eliza Field
Gender: Female
Christening Date: 01 May 1836
Christening Place: BROMYARD, HEREFORD, ENGLAND
Birth Date:
Birthplace:
Death Date:
Name Note:
Race:
Father's Name: William Field
Father's Birthplace:
Father's Age:
Mother's Name: Ann
Mother's Birthplace:
Mother's Age:
Indexing Project (Batch) Number: C13867-5
System Origin: England-ODM
GS Film number: 992639
Reference ID:

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Well spotted Chris,
yes I saw that Marriage too on FreeBMD, certainly one of the most likely of the possibles I thought, and a good fit re the children's births. I meant to revisit via LDS but had a car to fix instead, bahh !. Anyhow looks like you got there first which is great, methinks that Bromyard birth looks a very good fit too, especially since MPG has most helpfully tied down the area wrt mother Sarah being from Stoke Bliss - new place to me but certainly right area, "6 miles N. of Bromyard", ref
http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/HEF/StokeBliss/Gaz1868.html

Well done all !

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Great thanks, this will keep me busy!

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Bearing in mind the 1871 birthplace for Eliza (Linton Brom) I had a look around Bromyard on up-to-date maps. Whilst there does not seem to be a modern village of Linton there are plenty of indications that there might once have been one. Within a short distance there is the Bromyard & Linton light railway out to the Linton Ind. Est. (part of the old Bromyard/Worcester line), Linton Villas, Linton Brook Farm and a Linton Mill on a Linton Brook. Maybe this could help tie up the Bromyard links.

Some information here,

http://bromyardhistorysociety.org.uk/newsletter-four

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1851 Census, Herefordshire, Civil Parish, Norton with Brockhampton
District 3 - pages 21 and 22

FIELD

Down Toll Gate

William - 40 - Stone Mason, born Hereford Norton
Anne - 35 - Toll House Keeper - born Linton
George - 16 - Mason Labourer
Eliza - 14
Jane - 13
William - 11

(on the 1851 census, John POTTER with his mother and sister are on Page 7 (District 3) Norton with Brockhampton)

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This family is on Public members tree - Ancestry

William FIELD, born 30 Jan 1815 - Bromyard, Herefordshire (parents Joseph FIELD 1789-1875 and Elizabeth MORRIS - 1791-1861)

William FIELD married Ann NODEN -

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Bromyard & District Local History Society

http://www.bromyardhistorysociety.org.uk

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Thank you

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Thanks Mike, very interesting (I do like maps and old trains), also thanks for mentioning my Linton mix-ups in such a nice way. Sorry for not twigging the full significance of how far Bromyard is from "our" Linton/Gorsley area, think I was getting mixedup with Bromsberrow, sorry !

I see there are Lintons all over the UK, but for "Linton by Bromyard" here some more historical details about the oldest (C17th) buildings in the area. I particularly like their pub name !
See http://www.british-history.ac.uk/report.aspx?compid=124922

As usual the Genuki page for Bromyard gives transcripts of the 1868 National Gazetteer, but we are particularly fortunate that it also contains complete Kelly's Trade Directory entries from 1858, 1879 and 1929.
See these pages
http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/HEF/Bromyard/Gaz1868.html
http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/HEF/Bromyard/index.html

The most detailed Directory entry is for 1879, and includes

"BROMYARD is a very small, but compact and well built market town...... Parish consists of the townships of BROMYARD, NORTON with BROCKHAMPTON, LINTON and WINSLOW,.... ".

"LINTON township is adjoining to Bromyard town, and extends 3 miles south. Clater Park, the seat of William Barneby, esq. D.L., J.P. is delightfully situated about 2 miles from the town, closely adjoining the turnpike road leading from Bromyard to Worcester, and commands an extensive and picturesque view of the Ankerdine Hills and the River Teme, with its beautiful windings, for several miles. The Ecclesiastical Commissioners and John H, Barneby-Lutley, esq. are lords of the manor; and John H. Barneby-Lutley, esq. J.P., William Barneby, esq. J.P., and the Rev. Arthur Childe are the chief landowners. The soil is Clayey and loamy; subsoil, rock and clay. The chief crops are wheat, barley, beans, peas and hops. Cider is made here. The population in 1871 was 605; rateable value, £4,345.

NORTON-WITH-BROCKHAMPTON. - In this township is Buckenhill House, the residence of Lady Shakerley, delightfully situated about1½ miles north from the town, and commands a beautiful view of the country around Brockhampton, the residence of John Habington Barneby-Lutley, esq. D.L., J.P. is pleasantly situated on an eminence about 2½ miles east; and adjoining the same is a chapel endowed by the family, proprietors of Brockhampton House; the Rev. Robert Bentley, B.A. who resides at Bromyard, is curate. Here is an infant school for boys and girls. On the Downs, in an elevated part of the township, is the race course; also rifle butts. Here are stone quarries. The Ecclesiastical Commissioners are Lords of the Manor; and William Barneby esq. are chief landowners. The soil is clayey and loamy; subsoil, rock and clay. The chief crops are wheat, barley, and beans. The area is 5,243 acres (inclusive of Linton); rateable value, £4,410; the population in 1871 was 578."

The above Kelly's Directory also includes a substantial list of local inhabitants including this possible relative for John, listed under Linton

"Potter William, farmer, The Downs" c1879, worth looking up in 1881 Census ?

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The 1929 Directory shows that Linton's population had fallen to just 430, presumably as people were moving away from agricultural work into the nearby towns and cities, no surprise it seems so elusive nowadays.

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To find Linton on modern maps try looking just west of Linley Green / Bringsty, or just southeast of Bromyard. The search engine of the Old-Maps site won't recognise Linton but DOES recognise and give a map if you search "Linton Brook Farm". From this modern map you can access various large scale maps back to 1885; the Farm is immediately north of the Worcester and Bromyard Railway line, the Bromsgrove end of this is now the Light Railway as Mike has said.

Fortunately the Farm House still stands and has a helpful website including map, photos and some history, looks a lovely area to visit.
http://lintonbrookfarm.com/location.html

Finally, Liz, you mentioned John was an engine driver. Please do you know whether this was a railway engine, if so what line, etc ?? I ask because of my mechanical engineering background and interests, not to learn any gory details of his accident.
Thanks.

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I don't know much, I'm afraid, just read on one census it mentioned engine driver. He died when he was 44. My mum thought he had a bad accident, something to do with bricks! Regards

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Hi Liz,
thanks for answering wrt the engine driver; that's great, we do love a mystery to look into !

Also may I say what an absolute pleasure it's been seeing your replies today, so friendly and grateful which is nice to see. I suspect I'm not alone in thinking how this proves just how great this friendly forum almost always is, when so many volunteers are happy to spend their own time & effort trying to help kindred spirits such as your good self.
THANK YOU for helping brighten up my day.

This is especially true after just reading someone else's very different post from today. I know I'm a miserable old git deep down - with very good personal reasons - but why is it so hard for some people to communicate with their fellows in a polite, friendly, gracious manner ??. Especially when this website is free to access and run entirely by unpaid volunteers, it's meant to be a leisure pastime after all !!??.

Thanks to you again Liz for your interesting and enjoyable post, please keep em coming, especially if you can find out any more about John's engine-driving career ?.
That said, was it a career ?. Apart from the 1871 Census are their any other records which suggest he was a skilled technical man all his life, eg Marriage records ?. There may also be other records worth researching eg railway employment records.
Or was this a "one-off" job, possibly suddenly halted by the accident ? A search of the local papers is often the best way to research such stories, it would have been reported upon, I've seen FoD local newspapers devote a paragraph to "boy falls of bicycle", for example !.

Thanks again and happy hunting, Jeff

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You mention bricks, are there any other mentions of brickmaking, for example, in his history ?. Where I live on the western edge of London, Hillingdon north of Heathrow, throughout the 1800s there were several brickfields - areas of the right clay etc to allow a thriving brickmaking business to feed Victorian London's huge expansion. c1870 five million bricks were made a year !, the Grand Junction canal from the Midlands(Worcester) area towards London served this important local industry, with newer canal spurs extended west towards Slough for this very purpose.
Not sure yet how relevant, but the aforementioned 1879 Kelly's Directory for the area mentions "The soil is Clayey and loamy; subsoil, rock and clay." Furthermore the Linton section lists this entry.
"Finney William, brick & tile makers, Stream Hall stone quarry" c1879, Linton

As well as the railways, John Potter's engine may have been a stationary one driving factory machinery, or maybe stone saws at a quarry, or a heavy crane, or maybe a road traction engine hauling heavy loads (stone?). Any more info you can share on his life would be most gratefully received, thanks.

To my great pleasure and surprise, here's the very first result I've got from searching the phrase "Bromyard brickmaking" on tinternet, from what looks an excellent Herefordshire website which I'll be revisiting soon.

Linton tile and brick works (Stream Hall Quarry), Bromyard
SMR Number : 30573
Grid Reference : SO 6680 5415
Parish : BROMYARD AND WINSLOW, HEREFORDSHIRE
Large 19th century brickworks adjacent to the Bromyard to Worcester road with clay pit about 3.9 ha behind it shown on the 1964 O S map. The Worcester to Bromyard railway ran alongside the works and had their own sidings. A much smaller quarry is shown in the same place on the first edition map. The brick works are shown on the first edition with a smaller brickworks to the north of the road. Neither of these brickworks are shown on the 1841 tithe map. The Linton Tileries was called Stream Hall quarry in 1879. William Finney's firm was making bricks and tiles. It became a limited company in the 20th century. Spllied tiles for the Admiralty and War Office in 1914. Had a contract with the Egyptian State Railways and tiles were sent out to them. Stream Hall in 1842 was a smallholding with house and farm buildings owned and occupied by John Fudger. By 1878 was a sandstone quarry employing many Bromyard people. It was owned by William Finney who lived on Bromyard downs. By 1879 the firm was making brick and tiles. They were made from Old Red Sandstone marls. The railway to Yearsett (3.5 miles from Bromyard) was opened in 1874 and transported bricks and tiles. In 1887 the line was extended to Bromyard and to Leominster; there were sidings at the tile works. The works secured the largest contract for paving tiles ever placed in the country by a foreign government for the Egyptian railways. It also made tiles for the Admiralty and War Office. The tile works closed in the 1970s, though small scale work continued until the 1980s. Landscaping occurred in the 1980s. The site in 2000 was being used as a Council waste site. R Lewis listed as owner/worker of Hodgebatch, Linton in the Kelly's 1891 directory. In 1968 the work employed about 50 men. It is called a tile works so presumably it no longer made bricks.
http://htt.herefordshire.gov.uk/smrSearch/Monuments/Monument_Item.aspx?ID=30573

Of course no hard evidence yet that John was involved in this business, but he was certainly in the right area at the right time. This looks like a business that thrived in Victorian times, and would certainly have offered better pay, hours and prestige than the more traditional employment of labourer at local farms and orchards.

??

As a proud mechanical engineer (or just a metal-basher to my electronics colleagues) I'm pleased to be reminded this country used to be able to make things... yes I know the Industrial Revolution was a very dangerous and unhealthy place to work and live, but it did make Britain "Great".

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Thanks very much, I will show my mum, she will be very interested. That's all she can remember, I'm afraid. Bit it's very nice to have someone around who is a primary source of evidence on these things! Regards

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Thanks and regards!

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That sounds interesting, thanks. I will check it out, regards

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