How does one know which venue was used in an Awre with Blakeney marriage - the church at Awre or the Chapel at Blakeney?

For that matter this also applies to Baptisms and Burials.

Is there always some note on the original Parish Register or can one be certain that before a particular date [ie before Blakeney Chapel was built] all religious ceremonies happened at Awre?

The particular marriage record I have - that of Edward BOXALL to Ann COLE - took place on the 20th October, 1777 at the Parish Chapel at Awre, which seems odd.

I'd be grateful if someone could shed some light on this issue.

Bernard

Some records suggest that Blakeney chapel/church building did not exist in 1777. The Archives Handlist tells us to "see Awre for records before 1813" and GENUKI states Blakeney "Ecclesiastical parish formed from Awre, 1877" and this webpage: http://www.achurchnearyou.com/blakeney-all-saints/ tells us that the church was built c1820.

However when referring to A History of the County of Gloucester, Volume 5 we see the following:

"Blakeney village grew up on the Gloucester- Chepstow road around the junction of the Soudley and Blackpool brooks, which powered a number of mills in and around the settlement. The village was large enough to have a chapel of ease by the mid 16th century and in 1583 it was said to contain 20 or 30 households. (fn. 60) About 1775 Blakeney tithing, which included only the north part of the village, was said to be the most populous of the tithings, with 50 families. (fn. 61) As a fairly populous village on the main through route and a centre for trade, Blakeney rather than the isolated Awre village became the principal focus of parish life. Blakeney's chapel came to attract larger congregations than the parish church, (fn. 62) the court of the manor of Awre and Etloe was usually held at one of its inns in the 18th century, (fn. 63) and by the 1770s the parish vestry usually met in the village. The vestry meetings were held in the church house (fn. 64) adjoining the chapel until the house, which also served as an inn called the Bird in Hand, was demolished to make room for the enlargement of the chapel in 1819."

Mike

In the unlikely event you've not already seen it, I recommend this excellent Awre village website.
http://www.awre-bells.supanet.com/index.html
It includes a highly detailed history of St Andrew's Church, Awre, the "Mother Church of the Forest of Dean".
http://www.awre-bells.supanet.com/html/awre_church.html

Bernard

I think perhaps that this Heading is the source of your confusion?

Parish_Chapel:

If you read it as Parish OR Chapel (which I believe is how it was intended) then the answer is the marriage was at AWRE.

Agreed Chris. On my second and more carefull reading of the query, I think Bernard is confused because the word "Chapel" is used, when he might have expected the word "Church" ?. Hence cos Awre is definitely a "Church", so Bernard is thinking/looking for the nearest "Chapel", = Blakeney ?. Certainly my view of this Boxall/Cole Marriage record is there is no doubt the Marriage took place at Awre Church. Hopefully later Baptisms or Burials reflect this ?

This site's title page for the PRs quotes "Baptism, Marriage and Burial records of Parish Churches and Non-conformist Chapels within the Forest of Dean"

When I started using this great site at first I was confused by the use of the word "Chapel" on each and every PR, especially when in my personal experience Places of Worship were invariably "Churches". (This was before I discovered the huge variety of Non Conformist Chapels in the area's rich history).
However, and I think I was guided by other users, I soon took to largely "ignore" the precise literal wording, and used Chris' interpretation.

Q: is the word "Parish" (on the PR) truly applicable for Non C of E eg non-Conformist Chapels ??
A: apparently I've just read that yes the word Parish is used for many religions, altho the Methodist Church most usually uses the term "congregation".
So it seems the term "Parish Record" can be correctly applied to all religions.

I think we need to get back to basics here. The question raised is where did the marriage take place - was it in Blakeney or Awre?
Earlier I posted information on what buildings were in place at the time and what registers were in use and quite deliberately did not draw any conclusion but to summarise - the only records were Awre Parish Registers and the buildings were Awre Parish Church and Blakeney Chapel.
The next question I ask myself is this: "Did a venue have to be licensed for marriage in 1777?" This took me to a Wikipedia webpage which gives information on the Marriage Act 1753. Having read it through we still cannot be sure we have found the answer to the question. However we find this sentence: "The Act tightened the existing ecclesiastical rules regarding marriage, providing that for a marriage to be valid it had to be performed in a church and after the publication of banns or the obtaining of a licence."
Just to add to the evidence the Parish Register transcript gives us the dates the Banns were called and the earliest marriage recorded in the Blakeney Registers was in 1853. We also know that many Foresters travelled miles to a church to get married.

I offer these comments as someone with knowledge of the Church of England set-up, rather than knowledge local to the Forest of Dean.

I think the confusion occurs over the use of the word 'chapel'. Yes, it can mean a non-conformist place of worship (Baptist, Methodist etc) but crucially it can also mean the second (lesser) church WITHIN a Church of England parish. The full title is 'chapel of ease'.

The following is a summary from Wikipedia, which is as good as anything I've read.

A chapel of ease is a church building other than the parish church, built within the bounds of a parish for the attendance of those who cannot reach the parish church conveniently. Often such a chapel of ease is deliberately built as such, being more accessible to some parishioners than the main church. Such a chapel may exist, for example, when a parish covers several dispersed villages, or a central village together with its satellite hamlet or hamlets. In such a case the parish church will be in the main settlement, with one or more chapels of ease in the subordinate village(s) and/or hamlet(s).

Some chapels of ease are buildings which used to be the main parish church until a larger building was constructed for that purpose. Chapels of ease are sometimes associated with large manor houses, where they provide a convenient place of worship for the family of the manor, and for the domestic and rural staff of the house and the estate. Sometimes an ancient parish church is reduced in status to a chapel of ease due to a shift of population. When two or more existing parishes are combined into a single parish, one or more of the old church buildings may be kept as a chapel of ease.

So ... in this case, would it be that Awre is the 'main' parish church and Blakeney the chapel of ease? A marriage (or baptism or burial) could still take place at a chapel of ease; it was still part of the parish and of the parish.

Janey

I'm flabbergasted at the amount of detailed knowledge available to members of FODFHT - information that would take me weeks to unearth myself. I may still be a little tentative about my tendency to opt for Awre as the the most likely marriage place, as I had originally hoped, but I now have a wealth of knowledge and avenues for further research that I previously lacked.

I was aware from previous research that not all churches could perform marriages, since I would find most of a family's Baptisms and Burials were performed at one while marriages took place at another that was further away. Then one has to consider the situation in Awre Parish where Blakeney's population grows rapidly while Awre's shrinks. The pressure would be on to have marriages at Blakeney.

Many, many thanks for everyone's contribution. I am indeed lucky to have ancestors who came from the Forest of Dean.

Regards to all,

Bernard

I may be wrong on this one, but I thought, generally, the banns were read and the marriages tended to be solemnized at the actual parish church. Baptisms were sometimes duplicated -- go to the chapel of ease first, and then in better weather, troop everyone to the parish church for a repeat if necessary.