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I am researching a Morgan family who lived in the Forest in the early 1700s. William Morgan allegedly converted to Catholicism and married a Catholic wife, but we do not know her name or if they married before he came to the Forest. He is said to have kept horses and had 3 sons, one of whom, John, was born about 1720. At one point the family rented Oak House in Newland, but I do not know for how long, or where they lived before or afterwards. John married a Welsh girl named Ann Preece or Price, joined the navy and moved away.
Please can anyone help me?

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????

Not much information to work with

? re: Oak House in Newland (Morgan) + kept horses + Catholic - where does this record come from

? is there a link to a website with more information

When and where here did William MORGAN die - i.e. possible Will etc.

3 sons - 1 named John, the other two names?

Where have you got to i.e. what line are you following

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There is a website

Post Reformation Catholic History in the Forest of Dean and West Gloucester by Michael Bergin

(perhaps this Society could help you as well)

http://www.englishcatholichistoryassoc.files.wordpress.com/2011/11/post-reformation-cat...

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Thank you so much for responding. I'm afraid that there are no proper documented sources - the information was all handed down. William's great granddaughter, Anne Eugenia Morgan, married Sir Henry Chamberlain and the information came from her children, some of which is in the introduction to a biography of Neville Bowes Chamberlain and also in a book by Houston Stewart Chamberlain. The rest was added by descendants of Anne's siblings.

I do not know where or when William died, but John is supposed to have taken his body to Machen for burial as the family claimed relationship with the Morgan family of Tredegar, John died in about 1788 in Lisbon, Portugal, and his son, another William, is also supposed to have taken the body to Machen. I visited Machen a few weeks ago as well as Tredegar House, but could find nothing, however, the floor of the church is carpeted and there are graves beneath this. I also found Oak House but there is no record of the occupants so far back.

I have no knowledge of John's brothers' names either, but one family story said that they were all educated at Stonyhurst College. Interestingly, John seems to have decided not to pursue Catholicism as his son was baptised Church of England.

I will certainly have a look at the site you suggested. I have searched the usual suspects, Ancestry, the web generally, etc and come up blank. Once again, many thanks.

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Looking at an old message of Rootsweb - re the biography of Neville BOWES CHAMBERLAIN (son of Henry and Anne - and is on the 1881 census at 4 Seamore Place, Curzon St. London)

N.B. CHAMBERLAIN - Visitor, Male - 61 - born Brazil, General Indian Army

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As much information you have does help - how far have got confirmed research?

Sir Henry Chamberlain's - second wife - Anne Eugenia MORGAN (daughter of William, 5 June 1813)

Wikipedia: (doesn't say where the marriage was, but is on Ancestry

http://www.en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sir_Henry_Chamberlain,_1st_Baronet

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Marriage at St George Bloomsbury, Middlesex, 5 June 1813 (by licence) ? do you have copy of the Licence, which would give more info

Henry CHAMBERLAIN Esquire of the Parish of St James Westminster and Anne Eugenia MORGAN of this Parish a Spinster

Witnesses: William MORGAN Jnr, Henry CHAMBERLAIN, Jnr

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Looking at Public Members' trees - various places of birth for Anne Eugenia MORGAN

Rootsweb: Ann's father, was William MORGAN, Merchant of London

and also her parents ???

Marriage at Southwark St Mary Newington - 31 August 1783

William MORGAN of this Parish Batchelor and Mary Catherine BOCKMAN of this Parish, Spinster, married by Licence

witnesses: Gashard ? BOCKMAN and John MORGAN

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Yes, William married Mary Catherine Bockman. I'm not too sure about the 'merchant' bit - he had followed his father into the Navy and had then risen into the service of the Admiral of the Fleet as Secretary of the Jamaica Squadron. He was then involved with provisioning in Portugal at the time of the Peninsular War (perhaps that's where the merchant comes in) and was praised by Castlereagh. I have details of the Chamberlain family, but it's the Morgans I need to trace. Family stories say that John Morgan professed to being a cousin of Jane Morgan of Tredegar and that her marriage to Charles Gould and his subsequent adoption of the Morgan name to enable the title and property to stay in Jane's family had cost him his inheritance. The marriage of Anna and Sir Henry, by the way, took place in Rio de Janeiro. William's son, another John, was British Consul there and Sir Henry was posted out there.

I have begun trying to track all mention of Morgans anywhere in the 16th and 17th centuries and sorting out which branch of the Tredegar line they might have come from, but of course after all this time the records cannot be easily slotted into branches because of gaps in information. The first William Morgan was born in the Vale of Evesham and I have identified 3 or 4 families of Morgan in the area near Pershore. He may have moved to the Forest to be near other Catholic families connected to Tredegar. The Morgans at Lydney were part of a Tredegar spinoff and the Winter/Wintour, Hopton and Baynham families were related by marriage. Of course, I may just be clutching at straws here. Also, the mention of burials at Machen, although unproved, would be a pointer if true.

I've been working on the tree for about 5 years now - fortunately I have got a lot further with William and Mary Catherine's granddaughter-in-law, a Portuguese Brazilian from a very highly placed family, so it hasn't all been brick walls. Very many thanks for your interest, I just hate to be beaten!

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My ancestor Thomas Morgan, likely born about 1640, Whitecliffe, near Coleford, Parish of Newland, Forest of Dean, Gloucestershire betrays in his Last Will and Testament Catholic leanings. A witness to his Will (GDR 1711/159) was Cornelius Ryan listed amongst the Non-juror (Catholic) returns for Staunton of 1717. In life, however, he bent to the Church of England wind and his children were baptised and buried in the Church of England at Lydney. I have credible evidence that the father of Thomas Morgan was William Morgan of Whitecliffe, though his baptism does not appear in the Parish Records of the Forest of Dean. The father of William Morgan was likely John Morgan. John Morgan is mentioned in the Will of Richard Worgan of Clowerwall , Newland (GDR 1621/120 written 25th April 1621): "Item William Morgan Gent oweth me for the debt of his father John Morgan Gent which the said William promised to pay mee and ys the some of 5li". John Morgan is likely the son of Thomas Morgan of the Hurst, Lydney Gloucestershire whose Will was proved in 1568. The father of Thomas Morgan (Will 1568) was Thomas Morgan (Will 1532), alderman of Gloucester. Thomas Morgan (Will 1532) likely worked in some lay capacity for Lanthony Priory, Gloucester since he mentions in his Will "Jamyes Pady sur[van]te to my lord of Lanthony". The father of Thomas Morgan was likely William Morgan of Gloucester, steward of Lanthony, who is mentioned in National Archives document C 1/1248/51 (1544-1551): "John and Roger, sons of William Morgan, deceased, steward of the convent of Llanthony by Gloucester". John is likely the brother of Thomas Morgan (Will 1532), who is mentioned in the Will of Thomas Morgan (Will 1532). The father of William Morgan was likely the Thomas Morgan mentioned in National Archives document PRO CP 25/1/290/59, no. 11: "The manor of Hurst was probably the estate, including 2 messuages and 120 acres that John and Joan Barre conveyed to Thomas Morgan in 1466". Thomas Morgan was born before 1445.

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Thank you so much for this, but I still do not have a definite link from your FoD family to 'my' Morgans.

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Hi, would really like to learn more about your ancestor Thomas Morgan, his wife and any children, their links to Newland, Forest of Dean. Also any info you may have on his likely link to the Morgans of Tredegar through William Morgan of Rhymny. Hope you are happy to elaborate in this forum?

Many thanks.

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Hi Chloe1,
Could you post your connection to the Morgan family? I may then be able to help you with your research and also provide information to others in this forum.
10noyrum

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I am trying to find a William Morgan b.1790 who supposedly settled in the Forest of Dean, namely at Oak House, Newland, prior to the house being occupied by Captain John Henry Dighton. This is all hearsay so any help to authenticate would be appreciated.

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Jane Morgan of the Hurst, Lydney, Gloucestershire married William Morgan of Rumney, the third son of Sir William Morgan of Tredegar and Elizabeth Winter of Lydney. Elizabeth Winter was the daughter of Sir William Winter of Lydney.

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Many thanks for your help. I appreciate your time.

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It sounds as if we might possibly be looking at the same family. I have a William Morgan living at Oak House, but born in about 1680/90 in the Vale of Evesham. I have tried to tie him in with the Tredegar Morgans, as family legend has it, but with no success. I have also visited Oak House for myself. Three generations later one of William's descendants marries into the Chamberlain family. Does this feature in your tree?

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I have a WILLIAM MORGAN(a) in my tree who was baptised on 28th January 1680/81 in Newland. He was the son of Thomas Morgan and Prudence. Thomas Morgan was the son of William Morgan(b) (born about 1600). William Morgan(b) was possibly the third son of Sir William Morgan of Tredegar.

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The family information is that William was taken back to Tredegar after death to be buried with the Morgan family, but I visited Tredegar and Machen and found nothing. Do you have the names of his children? I have a John Morgan, date of birth not recorded but probably around 1720, who went on to join the Royal Navy and appears on his son's baptismal record as living in Grays Thurrock in 1754. He allegedly had 2 brothers - names unknown - and they may all have attended Stonyhurst College.

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William Morgan, the likely father of my well documented ancestor Thomas Morgan (buried on April 3rd 1711 in St Mary’s Church, Lydney) was born about 1600. He cannot be the father of your John Morgan born 1720.

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I was referring to the William Morgan you mentioned in an earlier posting as being baptised in 1680. Anyway, thank you for responding. I don't think I'll ever find out more about this family. I even mapped out all the various Morgan lines that tied in with Tredegar - Pen-y-coed, Llantrissant, Penilwyn, Langstone, etc., including families of their wives - but nothing looked remotely promising. Good luck with your research.

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I too am a direct descendant of this William Morgan, and my family tree claims some connections to the Morgans of Tredegar, athough I am beginning to wonder if this is actually the case. The information I have is included in a paper family tree compiled, I think, between 1914 and 1921, by my great uncle. There are biographical notes on the tree as follows. I don't know if any of this will be of interest to you.

NOTES ON WILLIAM BORN IN 1690:
It was stated by Capt. W.G.H.Morgan that William Morgan was born in 1690 and lived in the Vale of Evesham and was buried in Machen Church. It is understood that he had John and three younger sons. Mrs L Luard speaks of one of these being a Roman Catholic. Mrs. S.M. Chamberlain heard Capt R. Morgan say that William Morgan settled in a house afterwards occupied by Capt Dighton, at Newlands, near Coleford Glos, and near the Forest of Dean. Capt W.G.H. Morgan mentions some ancestor who was disinherited and disowned on account of marriage with a Roman Catholic lady.

NOTES ON JOHN BORN IN 1720:
Capt W.G.H. Morgan stated that John Morgan was born in 1720 and married a Miss Apreece (or Price).It is traditionally supposed that he and his brothers were educated as Roman Catholics. Miss G.E. Morgan said that he served in the Navy. Mrs L. Luard stated that he contested Miss Jane Morgan's right to the Tredegar Estates, and that he and certain other ancestors were buried at Machen. Capt W.G.H. Morgan wrote: 'he was living in Worcestershire and came up to Gray's Thurrock in Essex; he died in 1787 or 1788 and was buried in Tredegar by his son'. Miss G.E. Morgan said that he claimed to be the heir to the Tredegar Estates, and she understood that his death occurred at Lisbon, and that his body was brought home by his son William, for burial at Machen Church.

NOTES ON WILLIAM MORGAN BORN IN 1754:
William Morgan was born on 29th NOVEMBER 1754, and was baptised in Gray's Thurrock, Essex, on 30th December 1754, by Robert Maxwell, vicar. The parents' names are entered on the register as 'John and Ann Morgan'.It is definitely stated in writing by his son George Morgan and also alleged by Capt. W.G.H. Morgan and Miss G.E. Morgan that he served as a Lieutenant in the Navy for a short time. He lived at Lisbon after his marriage for many years, and returned to England during the Peninsular War and resided in Gower Street. It is stated that he was at various times, Purser of the Danae, Secretary to the Admiral of the Fleet, and General Agent to the Jamaica Squadron. Capt. W.G.H. Morgan stated that he was married on 31st August 1783 at Stoke Newington to Mary Catherine von Bockmann, of Lubeck. Mrs S.M. Chamberlain understood that the marriage was celebrated abroad, probably at Lisbon. It is stated that his wife was a Roman Catholic and Irish on her mother's side, and a great niece of General Wolfe. William Morgan died at Gower Street, Bedford Square, London, on the 20th March 1824 (Gentleman's Magazine, vol 1824, part 1, p 475). According to the Register of Burials for the parish of St Anne, Westminster, he was buried on the 27th March, 1824 (No 3743) aged 69 years, the ceremony being performed by Rev Rodk Macloed. It is stated by Capt W.G.H. Morgan that he was buried in a vault of the Trotters of Dyrham Park. Mr Stuart Trotter of 7 Great Winchester Street, London E.C. stated in 1907 that his grandfather, John Trotter, lived in 7 Soho Square from 1810 to 1830 and probably had a vault in St Anne's Church. Up to 1815, J Trotter had a very large business as Contractor to the War Office during the Peninsular War. He owned large premises in Soho Square, which still belonged to Mr S Trotter. He was buried at South Mimms, near Dyrham Park, which he purchased. Letters of Administration were granted on the 28th June 1824, to Mary Catherine Morgan, w idow, the Relict, the estate having been sworn at £1500. He was described as 'William Morgan, Esquire, late of Gower Street, Bedford Square, in the parish of St George, Bloomsbury'.............Capt R Morgan stated clearly in writing that his father, William Morgan, was a cousin of Miss Jane Morgan, who succeeded to the Tredegar Estates under the will of her brother and subsequently married Sir Charles Gould. He also stated that his father buried his grandfather, John Morgan, at Tredegar.

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Thank you so much for your response. Since my initial posting I have carried out a lot of research on the family, including going to Tredegar. I checked the church, but there is no-one relevant buried in the family area and the rest of the church is carpeted, so I couldn't see anything more. The graveyard is very old and uneven, with many collapsed graves, and most of the headstones are illegible. I then went round Tredegar House, carrying an early picture of John Morgan (Brazil), trying to spot any resemblances in the paintings, but nothing jumped out at me. I managed to see the house rented by William jnr in the Forest of Dean, and the owners very kindly allowed me to look at the oldest part of it - only one room, as it's now a care home.
The only other information I managed to find was in a book by Houston Stewart Chamberlain. He was very disparaging of the Morgan line, describing William snr as a 'horse keeper' in the Vale of Evesham and inferring that both he and his son were spendthrifts, with reference to the bankruptcy case - about which, again, I have found no details.

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