Seeking info on Samuel NEWMAN of Blakeney/Awre

I am looking for information on Samuel NEWMAN born 1869 possibly in Blakeney or nearby.

So far I have trace of him in the 1871, 1881, and 1891 census.

1871 - Blakeney Square. With David NEWMAN (40), Caroline NEWMAN (43), George (15), John W (13), Stephen D (10), Hannah (7), Matilda (4), Samuel (2)

1881 - Blakeney St. With David (listed as a Hay Trusser and Farmer), Caroline (a grocer), Hannah, Matilda, Samuel, Charles.

I also note that Kelly's directory of 1879 lists a Newman, David (shopkeeper)

It seems that next door were some more Newmans. William (another Hay Trusser), Elizabeth, Caroline 'M', William Wrench? (a lodger)

The 1891 census shows him as living with the GEORGE family in Newnham where he is listed as "Son-in-law".

He supposedly married Louisa GEORGE but I can find no record of a marriage. They had at least one child, my great grandmother Beatrice (H)Ellen who later married John BRYAN of Cardiff.

Louisa later remarried to Herbert HANCOCK or HANCOCKS and lived near Westbury-on-Severn, possibly at Elton Corner. My grandmother lived with her for a time and they did live at Elton Corner at some point - possibly opposite an orchard. There was another child, another Herbert also known as Bertie, who was my grandmother's half brother. I think Bertie lived in Churcham at some point.

I've found out quite a bit about my family in this area but Samuel is a dead end after 1891. He just disappears. I haven't properly started piecing together info on his siblings yet.

There is a fanciful story that Samuel fought for Germany during WW1, later to return to England and try to reconcile with the family who would have nothing to do with him. While there is some anecdotal evidence for this it just doesn't make sense to me and the dates don't fit. I think it's more likely he just did a bunk.

The story goes that when my grandmother was living with her grandmother (Louisa George/Newman/Hancock) a red haired man visited the house. After a conversation with Louisa he left. My grandmother had no idea who this man was. Much later my grandmother told this story to her father who, upon hearing it, reached for a photo of his wife and took another photo from the back of the picture. The photo was of the man who visited. Apparently this was his wife's father. My great, great grandfather.

Interestingly my mother had red hair, nobody else in the family has or had red hair.

It is said that unable to reconcile with the family he lived in Cardiff towards the end of his life.

UPDATE: I have found his baptism record on this site and his name is listed being spelt Sammuel

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Samuel & Louisa's marriage is on FreeBMD:

Marriages Mar 1891
Constance Elizabeth Westbury S. 6a 373
Daunter Henry Westbury S. 6a 373
George Louisa Westbury S. 6a 373 <<<
Newman Samuel Westbury, S. 6a 373 <<<

Confirmed on Gloucestershire BMD Index and they married in a Register Office.

http://ww3.gloucestershire.gov.uk/bmd/MarriageSearch.aspx

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Thanks Chris. I don't know how I missed that one!

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At least 3 trees on Ancestry (not sure if one of them is yours?) or how far back you have researched???

Looking at Gloucestershirebdm

The NEWMAN children's mother's maiden name CHURCH

George - 1855, District, Stroud,

John William - 1857, District, Stroud,

Stephen David - 1860, District, Stroud

Hannah - 1863, District, Forest of Dean

Samuel - 1869, District, Forest of Dean

Charles Frederick - 1870, District, Forest of Dean

David NEWMAN age 40 on 1871, born Berkeley

(from Gloucestershire Baptism Index CD)

David NEWMAN christened at Berkely St Mary the Virign - 27 June 1830 - parents: William (labourer) & Hannah - residence: Newport and a brother William NEWMAN christened as above - 9 December 1832, residence: Bainham

On the 1861 Census for Awre, District 4 and living with John HOOPER, 60 a Fisherman is

Hannah NEWMAN - Widow - age 53, born Old Sedbury, Gloucestershire
and William NEWMAN - 28 - born Berkeley

On the 1851 census for Alkington, Berkeley Heath

Hannah NEWMAN is aged 43, (House Servant) born Old Sodbury, and living with George HOOPER 73 and his Son John HOOPER - aged 56

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There is a marriage on Gloucestershire Marriage Index CD

William NEWMAN - Wotton-under Edge married Ann CHURCH at Berkeley - 28 August 1821

Caroline NEWMAN aged 43 - born Thornbury

(from Gloucestershire Baptims Index CD)

Caroline CHURCH, christened at Thornbury St Mary - 11 May 1828, parents, William (labourer) and Hannah : residence Morton

Gloucestershire Marriage Index CD

William CHURCH of Rockhampton, married Hannah LEWIS at Berkeley - 10 April 1821

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Freebdm

David NEWMAN/Caroline CHURCH married April/May/June Qtr 1854, Bristol District

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1861 Census, Wotton-Under-Edge

Huntingford

NEWMAN

David - 30, Carter, born Newport….. Berkeley
Caroline - 33 - born Rockhampton, Glos
George - 5
John - 4
Stephen - 10 months
Hannah CHURCH, Visitor, unmarried, 23 - House Servant, born Rockhampton

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I do have a tree on Ancestry so it's likely one of those you found is mine (Pete Eveleigh's tree).

For this branch of the family I'm back to about 1830 with David NEWMAN and Caroline CHURCH.

I've been able to find possible records for their parents but nothing certain.

I think some of the people you mentioned were indeed relatives but others are different people. It's quite tricky to untangle who is who!

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Just for forum info…

Family Search record

Marriage 1854 at St James Bristol

David NEWMAN (father William NEWMAN)

+ Caroline CHURCH (father William CHURCH)

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David NEWMAN parents' residence was NEWPORT

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Gloucestershire Burial Index

at Berkeley

William NEWMAN - 12 April 1832 - age 40 : residence NEWPORT

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This isn't helping us find Samuel is it!

Anyway - possible baptism for David on Scribes Alcove:

NAME: David Newman BAPTISED: 27 Jun 1830 at Berkeley

FATHER: William MOTHER: Hannah
OCCUPATION: Labourer ABODE: Newport

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I wonder if William married twice?

MARRIAGE: 28 Aug 1821 at Berkeley

GROOM BRIDE
NAME: William Newman Ann Church
ABODE: Berkeley Wottonunderedge

WITNESSES: Charlotte Newman, Henry Clarke

(It's that Church name again!)

..........and then:

MARRIAGE: 15 Oct 1828 at Berkeley

GROOM BRIDE
NAME: William Newman Hannah Garraway
ABODE: Berkeley Berkeley

WITNESSES: William Cornock, Henry Clarke

-------------------------------------------------

Of course we don't know where William was born, but if he was a local lad this is the only baptism I can find that is anywhere near to matching the burial age that Marilyn found.

NAME: Willm Newman BAPTISED: 9 Jan 1794 at Berkeley

MOTHER: Susanna
ABODE: Saniger
NOTES: Illegitimate

(Sanigar is between Berkeley and Sharpness).

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Re: Susannah NEWMAN christened at Berkeley - 26 June 1753 - father John ? possible mother of David

From the Gloucestershire Family History Society CD - pre 1800 marriages

Marriages from 1754 to 1799 from parishes not covered by forest-of-dean.net. Phillimore, IGI and GFHS 18th century Register Transcript CD - some pre 1754 marriages indexed by members of the Gloucestershire Family History Society are included.

approx : 46 Grooms/59 Brides (NEWMAN)

Berkeley

John NEWMAN - from Santers : married Elizabeth HIGGS - 5 May 1747.

Joane NEWMAN married Walter DAVIS - 25 May 1702
Sarah NEWMAN married Clement WORMAN - 7 July 1777
Martha NEWMAN married Joseph POULTON - 28 October 1792

The only David NEWMAN marriage on this CD is a marriage at Little Sodbury - to Jane STUMPE at Minchinhampton - 27 Jan 1706

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Thanks to all for the info so far. I am looking for details on Samuel but any bit of info is worth looking into and might fill some other holes so keep it coming!

Thinking about it logically, and based on the story of the man visiting Louisa George when my gran was living with her this must have occurred between 1923 (my gran's birth year) and 1933 when Louisa George died.

I believe that my gran moved to stay with Louisa after her mother (Louisa's daughter) died in 1927 so we have a narrow window of 1927-1933 for the event.

The marriage between Louisa George and Herbert Hancock was in 1910 so there's either a record of dissolution of marriage out there or a spot of bigamy!

Regarding William NEWMAN - this is getting complicated. I think the William NEWMAN married to Hannah Maria with children James, Joseph and Richard is a different one. The dates don't add up. He would be of the same generation as Samuel.

It's interesting that the name CHURCH keeps coming up.

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Looking at the Gloucestershirebdm for NEWMAN + mother's maiden name GEORGE -

Beatrice appears to have had a brother

Raymond Samuel NEWMAN, 1897 - Forest of Dean, Newnham - whose subsequent death M/J/July Qtr - 1898, Chepstow, Monmouthshire.

On the 1891 census, Samuel NEWMAN is a signal fitter - assume working on the railways, and probably moved around quite a lot and from my home town in Swindon (a big railway town) - men went abroad, including my great grandfather who went to South America to work on the Chilean Railways - who never came home to his wife and children!!

My Grandad left Blakeney and moved to Swindon by 1891 to work for the GWR

? There is an S NEWMAN on the railways records on Ancestry

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?? Not sure this is your Samuel NEWMAN - but shows how the railways caused a lot of men to look for work elsewhere!

Marriage at Redmarley - 23 December 1891

Albert Edward WESTBURY, age 28, bachelor, painter, residence: Swindon, Wilts
father: Daniel WESTBURY, labourer

married

Mary Ann NEWMAN, age 32, Spinster,
father: Edward NEWMAN, Shepherd

witnesses: Samuel and Elizabeth NEWMN

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I was aware that Samuel was a railway man and it did occur to me that this may be the reason for his disappearance.

I think I need to update my post as I have a fair bit of information about the generation AFTER Samuel and Louisa's family. It's just the NEWMAN branch that is proving tricky. Mainly because it seems to be obligatory for anyone in Gloucestershire named David NEWMAN to marry someone called Hannah!

What is interesting is the shopkeeper aspect. Looking at their address and working on the, possibly flawed, logic that shops tend to remain as shops for long periods I wonder if shop currently called "Blakeney News, food and wine" just opposite The Kings Head.

I'm from Cardiff (as are my parents and grandparents) but now live in Gloucester so I kind of feel I've come home.

I've also traced my father's side of the family to the other side of the Severn. Some of them appear to have lived in Arlingham so it's fun to think that the families may have known one another given the old river crossing point was between Arlingham and Newnham.

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Seeking info on Samuel NEWMAN of Blakeney/Awre (General)