too many Thomas BARNARDs with wife Mary.... and a Mary GOODE (General)
by macast 
, North Yorkshire, England, Sunday, November 09, 2014, 12:36 (3661 days ago)
could anyone PLEASE help me sort out a mess?
I have 2 Richard BARNARDs living close by in 1871 census for East Dean (below).
Richard No.1 is the line I have been most interested in as Alfred BARNARD (his son) is the correct great grandfather of my partner's line.
Richard No.1 is the son of Thomas BARNARD (1) and Lucy HARRIS
Richard No.2 is the son of Thomas BARNARD (2) and Mary _?_
Thomas BARNARD No.1 is the son of Thomas BARNARD and Mary
but Richard BARNARD No.2 is also the son of a Thomas BARNARD and Mary
one of the Thomas' married Mary GOODE (below)
can anyone understand where I am..... and please help me sort out who belongs where?
1)Richard
1871 census East Dean, Cinderford
Richard Barnard Head - Male 36 1835 - Gloucestershire, England
Elizabeth Barnard Wife - Female 36 1835 - Gloucestershire, England
William Barnard Son - Male 11 1860 - Gloucestershire, England
Emily Sophia Barnard Daughter - Female 9 1862 - Gloucestershire, England
Oliver Jno Barnard Son - Male 7 1864 - Gloucestershire, England
Alfred Barnard Son - Male 5 1866 - Gloucestershire, England
Moses Barnard Son - Male 4 1867 - Gloucestershire, England
Eli Barnard Son - Male 0 1870 (11months)
Archive reference RG10 Piece number 2599 Folio 20 Page 32 Record set 1871 England, Wales & Scotland Census
2)Richard
1871 census for East Dean, Cinderford
Richard Barnard Head - Male 50 1821 - Gloucestershire, England
Mary Barnard Wife - Female 51 1820 - Gloucestershire, England
Michel Barnard Son - Male 17 1854 - Gloucestershire, England
Emily Elizabth Barnard Daughter - Female 8 1863 - Gloucestershire, England
Street Cinderford Parish East Dean Town - City - County Gloucestershire Country England Registration district Westbury on Severn Archive reference RG10 Piece number 2599 Folio 21 Page 33 Record set 1871 England, Wales & Scotland Census
Thomas No.1 baptism
Record_ID: 414539 Entry_Number: Year: 1799 Month: Jun Day: 30 Parents_Surname: BARNARD Child_Forenames: Thomas Fathers_Forenames: Thomas Mothers_Forenames: Mary Mothers_Surname: Residence: Occupation: Officiating_Minister: Event: Baptism Memoranda: Son of Notes: Father's name Thos entered in the PR has been expanded to Thomas Register_Reference: P220 IN 1/2 Page_Number: 21 Parish_Chapel: Mitcheldean Soundex: B656
Richard No.2 baptism
Record_ID: 120 Entry_Number: 119 Year: 1821 Month: Mar Day: 12 Parents_Surname: BARNARD Child_Forenames: Richard Fathers_Forenames: Thomas Mothers_Forenames: Mary Mothers_Surname: Residence: Forest Occupation: Labourer Officiating_Minister: John Newport Event: Baptism Memoranda: Notes: Any abbreviated forenames have been expanded to the full name Register_Reference: P1 IN 1/7 Page_Number: 15 Parish_Chapel: Abenhall Soundex: B656
marriage of Thomas BARNARD and Mary GOODE
Record_ID: 32321 Entry_Number: 17 Year: 1799 Month: Feb Day: 17 Grooms_Surname: BARNARD Grooms_Forenames: Thomas Grooms_Age: Groom_Condition: Grooms_Occupation: Grooms_Residence: Abenhall Grooms_Fathers_Surname: Grooms_Fathers_Forenames: Grooms_Fathers_Occupation: Brides_Surname: GOODE Brides_Forenames: Mary Brides_Age: Brides_Condition: Brides_Occupation: Brides_Residence: Abenhall Brides_Fathers_Surname: Brides_Fathers_Forenames: Brides_Fathers_Occupation: Licence_or_Banns: Banns Date_of_Banns: Signature_or_Mark: Both mark Witness_1: Mark of Thomas Plasted Witness_2: Richd Lowe Other_Witnesses: Officiating_Minister: John Probyn Event: Marriage Memoranda: Notes: Not in BTs Register_Reference: P1 IN 1/5 Page_Number: 11 Parish_Chapel: Abenhall Soundex_Groom: B656 Soundex_Bride: G300
Thomas BARNARD (Abenhall) - wife Mary
by MPGriffiths , Sunday, November 09, 2014, 13:33 (3661 days ago) @ macast
On Ancestry there is the Will of Thomas BARNARD 1843, of Abenhall
Wife: Mary
Sons: Thomas/James/Philip/Michael
Daughters: Ann, wife of William ROBERTS + Eliza wife of Matthew SMITH, Deans Green, St Briavels, paper maker. Sophia, wife of James Hyett, Longhope and daughter Diana
Thomas BARNARD (Abenhall) - wife Mary
by macast , North Yorkshire, England, Sunday, November 09, 2014, 14:10 (3661 days ago) @ MPGriffiths
thank you. could you tell me how old that Thomas was when he died please?
.... and are there any clues as to his wife's maiden name?.... or his son Thomas? eg a wife? children?
it is all so complicated :-((
Thomas BARNARD (Abenhall) - wife Mary
by MPGriffiths , Sunday, November 09, 2014, 18:53 (3661 days ago) @ macast
If you look at Gloucestershirebdm
Thomas BARNARD was aged 77 when he was buried in 1843
On the Forest of Dean Records
this I think has been transcribed as
Thomas BARNETT aged 76 buried at Abenhall - 14 March 1843
The Will states he died 9 March 1843
Thomas BARNARD (Abenhall) - wife Mary
by macast , North Yorkshire, England, Monday, November 10, 2014, 17:29 (3660 days ago) @ MPGriffiths
thank you ..... I think I need to get a subscription to Ancesty.co.uk LOL
Thomas BARNARD (Abenhall) - wife Mary
by Mike Pinchin , Bedford, England, Sunday, November 09, 2014, 20:02 (3661 days ago) @ macast
CLDS gives these possible children for Thomas BARNARD and Mary, all baptised at Abinghall,
Ann, Bap 1799
Suffiah 1802 (BARNARD or BARNANARD)
Michael, 1804
Elizabeth, 1806
Thomas , 1808
James , 1810
Dina, 1813
Richard, 1821
This might fit with the marriage of Thomas BARNARD and Mary GOODE, 1799.
In the 1851 Census, E. Dean, Plump Hill
Richard BARNARD, Head, 30, Journeyman Maltster, b. Glos. E.Dean
Mary, Wife, 30, b. Glos, E.Dean
Thomas, Son, 2, b. Glos, E.Dean
Geo YEM, Step-son,14,b, Glos, E.Dean
And then in the 1841 Census, Abenhall,
Catharine YAMM, 70, not born in county
Thomas, 30 Labourer, born in county
Enoch, 15, born in county
Mary, 20, born in county
George , 4, born in county
Distin FARMILS (?) 20, Labourer, born in county
And then this marriage,
Record_ID 11349
Entry_Number 616
Year 1847
Month Dec
Day 17
Grooms_Surname BARNARD
Grooms_Forenames Richard
Grooms_Age full
Groom_Condition Bachelor
Grooms_Occupation Collier
Grooms_Residence East Dean
Grooms_Fathers_Surname BARNARD
Grooms_Fathers_Forenames Thomas
Grooms_Fathers_Occupation Labourer
Brides_Surname YEMM
Brides_Forenames Mary
Brides_Age full
Brides_Condition Spinster
Brides_Occupation Domestic Servant
Brides_Residence Mitcheldean
Brides_Fathers_Surname YEMM
Brides_Fathers_Forenames John
Brides_Fathers_Occupation Labourer
Licence_or_Banns Banns
Date_of_Banns [not stated]
Signature_or_Mark Both sign
Witness_1 George Smith of Silver Street Abenhall
Witness_2 The mark of Mary Ann Smith of Silver Street Abenha
Other_Witnesses
Officiating_Minister George Lee Curate
Event Marriage
Memoranda
Notes
Register_Reference P220 IN 1/8
Page_Number 15
Parish_Chapel Mitcheldean
But, all this seems to be to do with your unfavoured line.
Thomas BARNARD (Abenhall) - wife Mary
by macast , North Yorkshire, England, Monday, November 10, 2014, 17:32 (3660 days ago) @ Mike Pinchin
thank you. I am interested in all the lines.... they will meet .... eventually lol.
that is interesting about the Yem and Yamms..... looks like George is Mary's boy
Richard BARNARD and Elizabeth HARRIS
by MPGriffiths , Monday, November 10, 2014, 07:36 (3660 days ago) @ macast
Gloucestershirebmd
http://ww3.gloucestershire.gov.uk/bmd/
Richard BARNARD married Elizabeth HARRIS - Westbury on Severn Register Office 1858 - and the 1871 census, confirms the children listed : mother's Maiden name HARRIS
Emeline Sophia - 1862
Oliver John - 1863
Alfred - 1866
Moses - 1867
Eli - 1870
---
1861 Census - East Dean
BARNARD
Richard 25 - Coal Miner, all born East Dean
Elizth - 25
Wm - 1 (Gloucestershirebdm - mother's maiden name HARRIS)
Wm HARRIS - 21 Engine Drive
George MANNING - 27
Henry BARNARD - 18
----
1851 Census East Dean
BARNARD
Thomas - 52
Lucy - 52
Elizabeth - 22
John - 14
Thomas - 12
Henry - 9
next door
Elizabeth BARNARD - 62 unmarried (so probably Thomas' sister)
---
Looking at Gloucestershirebdm for BARNARD/YEMM births between 1848 and 1852
Thomas: 1848
Michael : 1852
Then: Emily Elizabeth 1862, Willard 1866, and Walter 1867
However, the mother's Christian name on the 1861 census is Mary
1861 Census
BARNARD
Richard - 40 - born Abinghall
Mary - 41
Thomas - 12
Michael - 9
Moses & Hannah HARRIS (nee TRIGG + SANSON
by MPGriffiths , Monday, November 10, 2014, 12:02 (3660 days ago) @ MPGriffiths
This I think is Elizabeth HARRIS, (brother William on 1861 census) wife of Richard BARNARD ….. family names
1851 Census, East Dean
Nail Bridge
HARRIS
Moses - 55 Collier, born East Dean
Hannah - 46
Milson - 21
Lucy - 18
William - 11
Sophia - 9
and
1841 Census, St Briavels
Old Engine
HAVIS/HARRIS
HARIS
Moses - 40
Hannah - 36
Milson - 10
Elizabeth - 6
William - 1
Looking at Gloucestershirebdm - HARRIS - children's mother's maiden name is TRIGG
Marriage at Walford
8 July 1827
Moses HARRIS, Bachelor, extraparochially
married
Hannah TRIGG, Spisnter, ditto
by banns
witnesses: Henry TOMKINS and mark of Maria WEBB
---
1851 Census East Dean
Hagley Tump?
Phebe HARRIS - Widow - 75 - born Westbury on Severn
Elizabeth MORGAN - Lodger - 18 - born Forest of Dean
Richard BARNARD - Lodger 16
---
The HARRIS/TRIGG tree has a few Public Members' Tree on Ancestry
parents of Moses given as George HARRIS (Wood Collier) and Phebe Sanson (1776-1858) - who married at Walford, 6 February 1795
---
Fod Records
Baptism at Ruardean - 6 February 1795
Moses HARRIS, parents: George & Phebe
Moses & Hannah HARRIS (nee TRIGG + SANSON
by macast , North Yorkshire, England, Monday, November 10, 2014, 18:00 (3660 days ago) @ MPGriffiths
thanks for all this.... I had managed to find most of this and link it in.... but it is good to get some confirmation from an expert.
too many Thomas BARNARDs with wife Mary.... and a Mary GOODE
by macast , North Yorkshire, England, Monday, November 10, 2014, 18:06 (3660 days ago) @ macast
with all these Thomas and Marys I am in a great muddle
to Thomas and Mary of Abenhall I have these children
1799 BARNARD Ann ....Thomas Mary Abenhall
1802 BARNARD Suffiah Barnarnard ....Thomas Mary Abenhall
1804 BARNARD Michael .....Thomas Mary Abenhall
1806 BARNARD Elizabeth .....Thomas Mary Abenhall
1808 BARNARD Thomas .....Thomas Mary Abenhall
1810 BARNARD James .....Thomas Mary Abenhall
1813 BARNARD Dina .....Thomas Mary Labourer Abenhall
1815 BARNETT Philip .....Thomas Mary Labourer Abenhall
1821 BARNARD Richard .....Thomas Mary Labourer Abenhall
but my partner's line comes through Richard BARNARD b1834 son of Thomas BARNARD and Lucy HARRIS
Abenhall Thomas and Mary had a Thomas but he was baptised in 1808 (and fits in with the rest of the children with a gap of 2 years ish..... until Richard with a 6 year gap since Philip).
the Thomas BARNARD and wife Mary that I'm more interested in is the couple who are the parents of Thomas BARNARD (baptised 1799) who married Lucy HARRIS
Record_ID: 414539 Entry_Number: Year: 1799 Month: Jun Day: 30 Parents_Surname: BARNARD Child_Forenames: Thomas Fathers_Forenames: Thomas Mothers_Forenames: Mary Mothers_Surname: Residence: Occupation: Officiating_Minister: Event: Baptism Memoranda: Son of Notes: Father's name Thos entered in the PR has been expanded to Thomas Register_Reference: P220 IN 1/2 Page_Number: 21 Parish_Chapel: Mitcheldean Soundex: B656
do you think this Mary is Mary GOODE? or do you think the Abenhall Mary is Mary GOODE? and if so then who is my Mary?
I think my head is spinning and might just spin right off my head with trying to sort these out!!!
too many Thomas BARNARDs with wife Mary.... and a Mary GOODE
by Mike Pinchin , Bedford, England, Monday, November 10, 2014, 19:56 (3660 days ago) @ macast
I don’t want to throw a spanner in the works but CLDS has this:-
Thomas Barnard
Gender: Male
Christening Date: 30 Jun 1799
Christening Place: MITCHELDEAN,GLOUCESTER,ENGLAND
Death Date: 18 Feb 1803
Father's Name: Thos. Barnard
Mother's Name: Mary
Also, on this site:-
Record_ID: 319395
Entry_Number:
Year: 1803
Month: Feb
Day: 18
Surname: BARNARD
Forenames: Thomas
Residence:
Age_at_death:
Officiating_Minister:
Event: Burial
Cause_of_death:
Memoranda: Son of Thom[a]s & Mary
Notes: The name Thoms entered in the PR has been expanded to Thomas
Register_Reference: P220 IN 1/2
Page_No: 24
Parish_Chapel: Mitcheldean
Soundex: B656
too many Thomas BARNARDs with wife Mary.... and a Mary GOODE
by macast , North Yorkshire, England, Wednesday, November 12, 2014, 19:19 (3658 days ago) @ Mike Pinchin
OH!!! does this mean my research is in a mess???
so where is my Thomas BARNARD who married a Mary and produced all those children in Drybrook???
I'm becoming overwhelmed with Thomas Barnards LOL
BARNARD/BARNETT
by MPGriffiths , Tuesday, November 11, 2014, 09:24 (3659 days ago) @ macast
This family goes by the surname BARNARD/BARNETT - as per the 1841 census
1841 Census (St Briavels)
BARNETT
Thomas - 45 Lime Burner
Lucy - 43
Eliza - 13
Mary Ann - 11
Jane - 9
Richard - 7
John - 5
Thomas -2
Just above Thomas & Lucy BARNETT is
Elizabeth BARNETT - 50
Elizabeth - 3
Elisha HALE - 33
Sarah HALE - 38
Mary BARNETT - 15
Charles BARNETT - 12
Charlotte BARNETT - 8
---
(a lot of BARNETT's on this page of the 1841 census)
inc
William BARNETT - 35 - Lime Burner
Sophia 36 (probably christened at Lea - 3 July 1803, parents, Margaret & Thomas TRIGG)
James 14
Timothy - 11
William - 8
Eliza - 5
Hannah - 9
Margaret GOODE - 70 *** (assume this is Sophia's mother)
***??? Marriage at Abinghall - 25 August 1825, John GOODE, Widower, married Margaret TRIGGE - Widow
---
On the 1851 census William is now called BARNARD
Willm BARNARD - Widow - aged 54 - born Mitcheldean c1797 (Fod record - 4 Sept 1795, Mitcheldean: Thomas & Mary)
James - 26 - born Lea Bailey
Timothy - 26
William - 17
Eliza - 15
Hannah - 10
----
Fod Records, Marriage at Abenhall - 1 October 1825
William BARNARD - (Hundred of St Briavels, married Sophia TRIGGE)
---
If you look again at the 1851 Census of Thomas and Lucy BARNARD
next door (as families did on many occasions live close)
is
Elizabeth BARNARD who is 62 - unmarried born Dean Forest
with
Sarah TRIGG, lodger - 19 - born Dean Forest
---
and then
Sarah HALE - 60 - Charwoman - Longhope
Charles BARNARD - Son - 20 - born Dean Forest
Amos HALE - son - 9 - born East Dean
---
also John BARNETT - 45 - Ag Lab
---
+
Charles BALDWIN - 27
Mary BALDWIN - 25
Hannah BARNETT - 15
--
Fod Records
Marriage at Lea - 12 June 1822
Thomas BERNARD - the extraparochial part of the Hundred of St Briav
married
Lucy HARRIS, - ditto
witnesses: Benedicta & Charles BENNETT
BARNARD/BARNETT
by macast , North Yorkshire, England, Wednesday, November 12, 2014, 21:01 (3658 days ago) @ MPGriffiths
thanks for this. this is getting more and more complicated with the BARNARDS AND BENNETTS being the same people.
will wait til tomorrow to try to work this out as it is late now :-(