Hi there Forum members

This is my first post, so I hope I hope to find some long-forgotten information. Firstly, what a great resource!

I am searching for information about my husband's grandfather. William Herbert Charles Craddock was born in Hammersmith, London, but married a local Forest girl, Daphne Court in 1944, when he was 21 and she was 18, in Coleford.

He unfortunately died that same year at war, leaving Daphne pregnant with my husband's mother Joy. Joy married Michael Hale later and they raised four children in the area: Stephen (my husband), Jacqueline. Sean and Sandra (twins).

I know that William's parents were named Sydney Herbert Craddock and (First name unknown) Thomas (maiden name), from the marriage records.

Last year my husband & I travelled to Ravena, Italy, to see William's grave, but unfortunately all contact with his family was lost after his death.

I know it is unlikely that anyone from the Forest will remember these events, because I think William was not a local (Daphne was local all her life). Someone might know the Court or Hale families, however. We would appreciate it if anyone could point us in the direction of William Craddock's relatives.

Please ask if I have been unclear or left out necessary information.

Thank you, Bronwyn

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Bonny Hale

Birth of William HC Craddock:

FreeBMD: Births Jun 1924
Surname First Name(s) Mother District Vol Page
Craddock William HC Thomas Hammersmith 1a 368

Marriage of William HC Craddock's Parents:

FreeBMD: Marriages Oct 1912
Surname First Name(s) Spouse District Vol Page
Craddock Sydney H Thomas Strand 1b 1293
Thomas Emilie L Craddock Strand 1b 1293

From fmp: England & Wales Deaths 1837-2007 Transcription

First Name(s): Sydney H; Last Name: CRADDOCK; Birth Year: 1891; Age: 72; Death quarter: 3; Death Year: 1963; District: HAMPSTEAD; County: London; Volume: 5C; Page: 698

Thank you Paul, that is fantastic. I'll set off in that direction then :)

Rookie question: What is fmp?

Thanks again for the speedy response!

Bronwyn Hale

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Bonny Hale

Sorry for the acronym, they can be confusing. fmp is findmypast.co.uk one of the genealogy web sites available in the UK.

From fmp: England & Wales Deaths 1837-2007 Transcription
First Name(s) Emilie L; Last Name: CRADDOCK; Birth Year: 1890; Age: 53; Death quarter:1; Death year: 1943; District: WESTMINSTER; County: London; Volume: 1a; Page-520.

From FreeBMD. Births Dec 1889
Surname First Name(s) District Vol Page
Thomas Emilie Louise Westbury S 6a 252

Excellent, thanks again Paul. I'm not on Find my Past. That's probably why I missed the link to Emilie. At least now I have a direction to go in.

Regards, Bronwyn

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Bonny Hale

1911 England Census
1 Church Path, Mainder, Newport, Mon
James Keron Tracey - Head - 33 - Married - Decorator - Leeds, Yorks
Evelyn Annie Tracey (nee Alden) - Married (7yrs) - 3 children born alive- 2 now living - 1 died - Soudley, Glos
Nina Mabel Tracey - 1 - Daughter - Soudley, Glos
Emily Louise Thomas - Visitor - 21 - Single - Independent - Soudley, Glos

1891 England Census
Bilson Green, Cinderford
William Thomas - Head - M - 44 - Coal Miner - Glo'shire, Cinderford
Sarah Thomas - Wife - M - 43 - Glo'shire, Cinderford
Charles H Thomas -Son - S - 21 - Coal Miner - Glo'shire, Cinderford
Hephzibah M Thomas - Daur - 16 - Dressmaker - Glo'shire, Cinderford
Elizabeth Thomas - Daur - 12 - Scholar - Glo'shire, Cinderford
William Thomas - Son - 11 - Scholar - Glo'shire, Cinderford
Hannah Thomas - Daur - 9 - Scholar - Glo'shire, Cinderford
Ernest E Thomas - Son - 6 - Scholar - Glo'shire, Cinderford
Emily L Thomas - Daur - 1 - Glo'shire, Cinderford

1911 England Census
16 Lawn Gardens, Hanwell, Middlesex
Charles Henry Craddock - Head - 50 - M - Tailors Trimming - St Georges, Hanover Sq
Anne Ellen Craddock - Wife - 50 - M (27yrs) - 12 children born alive - 9 now living - 3 died - Marylebone
George Arthur Lewis Craddock - Son - 26 - M - Tailors Assistant - Paddington
Sydney Hubert Craddock - Son - 20 - Single - Porter - Paddington
William Allen Craddock - Son - 18 - Single - Tailors Assistant - Paddington
Harry Craddock - Son - 16 - Single - Butcher - Paddington
Frank Craddock - Son - 12 - Single - School - Chelsea
Grace Marion Craddock - Daur - 8 - Single - School - Chelsea
Florence Ruth Day - Visitor - 16 - Single - Jewel Case Liner - Marylebone

1911 census transcription error: Mainder should read Maindee.

Hi again Paul

I wish those were the right people, but I think they aren't, unfortunately. The spelling of Emilie differs, but also I think I have picked up the correct Emilie Louise Thomas' birth on BMD Free, in Dec 1889 in Westbury. This spelling & birthplace tie up with the marriage records. The Emily you found was born in Soudley, I think? So I'm guessing they are different. But still I can't find my Emilie in the 1911 Census.

I realise that I am able to get well & truly confused looking into these...;-)

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Bonny Hale

Thank you.

I think these are the parents of Emilie/Emily Louise Thomas

Record_ID 17563
Entry_Number 9
Year 1868
Month Apr
Day 17
Grooms_Surname THOMAS
Grooms_Forenames William
Grooms_Age 22
Groom_Condition Bachelor
Grooms_Occupation Collier
Grooms_Residence Ruspidge
Grooms_Fathers_Surname THOMAS
Grooms_Fathers_Forenames John
Grooms_Fathers_Occupation Labourer
Brides_Surname ELLAWAY
Brides_Forenames Sarah
Brides_Age 21
Brides_Condition Spinster
Brides_Occupation [not stated]
Brides_Residence Cinderford
Brides_Fathers_Surname ELLAWAY
Brides_Fathers_Forenames John
Brides_Fathers_Occupation Collier
Licence_or_Banns Banns
Date_of_Banns [not stated]
Signature_or_Mark Both sign
Witness_1 J[illegible]s Ellaway
Witness_2 May Ellaway
Other_Witnesses
Officiating_Minister Samuel Edwards
Event Marriage
Memoranda
Notes
Register_Reference P348 IN 1/3
Page_Number 5
Parish_Chapel Viney Hill

The 1891 England Census in my earlier post shows this couple with their family at that time.

From Gloucestershire BMD Indexes:

Child Surname: THOMAS; Child Forename: Emilie Louise; Father Surname: THOMAS; Mother Surname: THOMAS; Mother's Former Name: ELLAWAY; Year: 1889; District: Westbury on Severn, Newnham; Register: 59; Entry: 343.

Soudley is 3.5 miles from Cinderford and it is not unusual to find different places of birth given on different census returns. One would expect that in the 1911 census, Emily/Emilie gave the information and is the place she believed she was born.

Between 1888 and 1891 only three female Thomas children were born in Westbury on Severn Registration District with the forename beginning E. The others were Ethel Miriam in Jun 1890 and Ethel Violet in Dec 1890. The fact that the spelling of Emilie/Emily differs is explained by the knowledge of those writing the reports. From the death record she was certainly known as Emilie by the informant of the death.

I believe the Emily Louse (sic) Thomas visiting the Tracey family at Maindee, Newport, Mon in 1911 is Emilie Louise Thomas the child of William Thomas and Sarah Ellaway.

Daphne Court was a bridesmaid at the wedding of my Uncle Charles Wintle when he married Violet Hale in Coleford. My mother Doris Wintle spoke of Daphne often she too was a bridesmaid at the wedding of her brother. Next time I see my cousin who still lives at Palmers Flat i'll ask her if she knows of any info that might be of help.

Best of luck Tichfen.

Hi Paul

I read and re-read your post and suddenly had a lightbulb moment. I didn't realise that there was a place named Westbury-on-Severn. I had been looking into Westbury, Wiltshire, and decided that was probably too far away to be relevant (in conjunction with the altered name spelling).

If you're right, this will be a very interesting turn of events!

To my knowledge, my husband's family believes their deceased grandfather's relatives were from London, and that all contact was lost in the mid forties.

Thank you so much for taking the time to look into this. I am visiting my in-laws in about 2 weeks' time, and I will try and have some research ready for them at that time.

I will keep you posted.

Regards, Bronwyn

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Bonny Hale

Hi Tichfen

Thank you, that is very kind of you. I think it's better to know interesting details about people, like who they were bridesmaids to, etc., rather than just collecting lists of names.

Daphne passed away probably fifteen years ago. I was at her funeral. She was a pretty good grandmother-in-law to me, with a great sense of humour. We shared a few glasses of tipple and watched old movies together in the months before her death :-) Good memories.

Regards,

Bronwyn

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Bonny Hale

Emilie was the sister of my husband's grandfather (Ernest) and I had the following from another researcher:

EMILIE LOUISE THOMAS (sister of Ernest) married Sydney H CRADDOCK. Before 1939 they ran night club in London, "Welcome Club" Also involved in supplying wines to London hotels. Had daughter Joan.

I have not been able to find any records of the Welcome Club to verify this nor can I find a birth record for Joan only for Beatrix and William.
I hope this of interest.

This forum is not to be used to trace living relatives. This type of enquiry is unacceptable on this Family History Website.

Please read the Forum Posting Guidelines near the top of the Forum index page. The section "Tracing living relatives" is relevant in this case and you will read why this type of enquiry is not allowed.

May Brace - Secretary to the Forest of Dean Family History Trust

Sorry May - I see what you mean and I have deleted the problematic comment.

I'm hoping to trace relatives who are deceased.

Regards, Bronwyn

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Bonny Hale

Thank you very much Margaret, that is so interesting.

I did find a reference on the net about 'British Welcome Clubs.' It might be that there is a link there. The quote says:-

'When American troops began to arrive in Britain in 1942, the WVS (Women's Voluntary Service) ran 200 'British Welcome Clubs' all over the country in attempt to bridge the divide between the troops and British civilians.'

I would not like to attach a link on here, but the quote was found on an archived BBC website.

I have made a note of all your other info too!

Regards, Bronwyn

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Bonny Hale

Hi Paul

I was just thinking - If your Emilie is indeed William's mother, then she actually died a year before her son died at war. That could explain why contact was lost with the rest of the family after his death. It would also explain why William met a girl and married in the Forest (we didn't know his mother was from the area, believing they were all from London).

I'm looking forward to corroborating some of this with my in-laws next week.

Regards, Bronwyn

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Bonny Hale

Hi again Margaret

I found Beatrix' birth records and she certainly seems to have the same parents as William, and at 8 years older than him, it does tie in with the date of their parents' marriage.

Unfortunately I cannot find a record of Beatrix' marriage or death. Isn't that strange? I was wondering whether you ever found these records?

I think if there was a sister named Joan, she would have been younger, as the name Joan is quite modern...

Maybe Beatrix called herself Joan, because one of her middle initials is J? But that is - of course - only speculation.

Regards, Bronwyn

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Bonny Hale

Birth and parents of Daphne Pamela Court

Gloucestershire BMD Indexes:

Birth Details:

Child Surname: COURT; Child Forename: Daphne Pamela; Father Surname: COURT; Mother Surname: COURT; Mother Former Surname: SHINGLES; Year: 1926; District: Forest of Dean; Office: Monmouth, Coleford (Sub-district 4); Register: 10; Entry: 200

Gloucestershire BMD Indexes:

Marriage Details:

Groom Surname: COURT; Groom Forename: Sydney; Bride Surname: SHINGLES; Bride Forename: Violet May; District: Forest of Dean; Parish: Monmouth; Building: Register Office; Year: 1923; Register: 28; Entry: 17

1911 Wales Census
Woodside, Bream, West Dean, Monmouthshire

John Wm Shingles - Head - 43 - Married - Coal Miner - Glos. West Dean
Esther Shingles - Wife - 40 - Married - 22 (yrs married) - 5 (children born) - 4 (children living) - 1 (children died) - Staffs. Brierley Hill
William John Shingles - Son - 15 - Single - Hitcher at Colliery - Glos. West Dean
Violet May Shingles - Daughter - 12 - School - Glos. West Dean
John Richard Shingles - Son - 7 - School - Glos. West Dean

1911 Wales Census
Edinwall (sic) Road, Milkwall, Nr Coleford, Glos

William H Court - Head - 43 - Married - Coal Miner Hewer - Milkwall, Glos
Elizabeth Sarah Court - Wife - 45 - Married - 22 (yrs married) - 8 (children born) - 7 (children living) - 1 (children died) - Fetter Hill, Glos
William Philip Court - Son - 20 - Single - Coal Miner Hodder - Milkwall, Glos
Alfred Court - Son - 15 - Single - Coal Miner Hodder - Milkwall, Glos
Albert Court - Son - 13 - School - Milkwall, Glos
Sydney Court - Son - 6 - School - Milkwall, Glos

Hello Bronwyn,
I agree she does seem to be a mystery lady. I have tried to contact the person who gave me this information but he is no longer on genes reunited, so it seems we have hit a brick wall. Perhaps someone cleverer than me on this website can give us an answer.
Good hunting
Margaret

Hi again Paul

I had some of this info but not all, so thanks again.

I didn't realise that Sydney Court and Violet Shingles married when she was 25 and he was only 18 (or even possibly 17)! Also it seems incredible that his younger brother Alfred was already a coal miner at age 15. But I guess that's how fast children had to grow up in those days, start earning a living and put food on the table.

Regards, Bronwyn

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Bonny Hale

Hi
Not sure if you are still seeking information but my grandmother was Bill's elder half sister. My great grandfather Sidney Herbert Craddock of Hammersmith married Nellie Thomas and then my grandmother came to stay with her in the Forest. My grandmother then settled in the Forest years later and had 6 children. I grew up knowing about Bill. My father has a photo of great grandfather at Bill's grave. We still live in the area. My Dad remembers Bill and playing with Joy at Coleford when they went to visit but they lost contact over the years.

Terina Riches

Hi
Not sure if you are still seeking information but my grandmother was Bill's elder half sister. My great grandfather Sidney Herbert Craddock of Hammersmith married Nellie Thomas and then my grandmother came to stay with her in the Forest. My grandmother then settled in the Forest years later and had 6 children. I grew up knowing about Bill. My father has a photo of great grandfather at Bill's grave. We still live in the area. My Dad remembers Bill and playing with Joy at Coleford when they went to visit but they lost contact over the years.

Terina Riches

Hi Terina

Wow thank you so much for the reply. It's been almost 5 years since I posted my question. I have found a cousin for Joy since I posted, and I think you must be related to him!

Was your grandmother Joan/Beatrix b. 1916 d. 1997? I only have 3 children for her, I did not realise there were 6 at one time. As some of them are still living I can't put names on here but I know one daughter died in 2002 and a son died a couple of years ago in Germany.

Am I correct? Would be great to understand where you fit in. I have a photo of Joan/Beatrix on my Ancestry tree and she was beautiful.

Kind regards and thank you

Bonny Hale

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Bonny Hale

Hi

This is so strange isn't it. I grew up knowing about Bill because he was my Grandmother's half brother who she adored and every Remembrance Day she would talk about him.

My Grandmother was Nellie Alice Craddock born in 1902 although she changed her name later to Margaret Ellenor and her father was Sidney Herbert Craddock.

Gran was born in the pub he ran - The Chequers - in Duke Street St James' in Picadilly in London. He was also a provider of wines and Gran said he used to provide wine to the Palace but we aren't sure if that is true. The pub is still there behind Fortnum and Masons.

Her mother died when she was 2 so she went to live with an aunt but was still close to Sidney. He remarried to Nellie Thomas who worked as a maid or cleaner but came from the Forest of Dean, and according to Gran she already had a daughter called Joan who Gran referred to as her step sister.
Apparently according to Gran, Joan married a Russian or German and there seems to be some connection to Heidelberg but I'm not sure how.
Nellie returned to the Forest with Bill and Gran used to visit. Nellie herself came from a huge family.

My gran married but the marriage was difficult and my grandparents separated so Gran moved to this area to be nearer to Bill and Nellie who was always kind to my Gran, with her children. Although separated she and grandpa continued to have children - 6 in total. Grandpa was a very strict man and lived near Manchester but visited frequently.

My dad was the third child and eldest boy. He remembers Uncle Bill and playing cricket with him before he went to war. Dad also remembers Sidney Herbert very well as does my uncle. My Gran had 2 girls followed by 4 boys and the boys used to get sent to London to visit their Grandfather ( Sidney) and he used to make them memorise the names of the statues. He at this stage lived in Hammersmith where he died. I think my Aunt Barbara had met Joan.

I hope this is of interest to you. Bill meant a lot to Gran - she was so proud of him and used to get very emotional when she spoke of him. One of her sons was named after him and my Dad's middle name is Charles too. I think my great grandfather - Sidney_ was devastated by his death. I remember Gran saying how much it meant to him to visit his grave and my dad has that photo.

I will try and get a copy of it to you. If you would like some photos other photos I can scan them in and get them to you if you would like. My Dad and one of his younger brothers are all that remain of Gran's children and my father is now terminally ill. I have told him about your email and he was a bit blown away, he was born locally ( all 4 boys were ) and they all knew about Uncle Bill as he is known in this branch of the family.
My email
Best wishes
Terina