hi everyone

I'm really struggling with trying to identify the four young men in a photo I have. I've asked several people in genealogy groups on Facebook to try to identify the possible year this photo was taken and most people have come up with later 1900s to early 1920s

if these dates are correct then these men are not the GREEN boys as I have always thought.

I wanted to post the photo to this group but I can't work out how to do so.

the young men are almost certainly Forest of Dean born and bred.... but I don't know who they are and there is no one left alive in the family who might recognise them.

two of the men are very like members of the family who we do have photos of and know who they are. so there is a family likeness. I've looked through my database but can find no family that has 4 boys who would fit with the dates

can anyone help me to upload a photo or direct me to somewhere where I can upload it and then you can all look at it and see if you recognise who they are or what their lapel badges signify (3 of the young men have lapel badges)

thanks in advance

Instructions for sending in photographs can be found on this page:
http://www.forest-of-dean.net/joomla/index.php/photo-gallery

We upload to the Gallery when a sufficient number have been sent in to make up a page and of late submissions have been few. So if anyone has suitable photographs which they would like displayed on the site please send them in.

We upload to the Gallery when a sufficient number have been sent in to make up a page and of late submissions have been few. So if anyone has suitable photographs which they would like displayed on the site please send them in.

I'll try to sort some out over the Christmas holiday period :-)

can you believe that I've only just sent you the photo????

we are still struggling as to who these young men are.

we've had the unused photo postcard professionally dated to 1914-1919 (the photographer was Ida GWYNNE... hence my other posts about Ida) with the ages of the men as from late teens to 20s …. and the oldest one being no older than 30 years old.

the young men could be from the following families ….. BARNARD.... BEVAN … GRIFFITHS.... GREEN.... HARRIS.... and perhaps TRIGG or POYNER (but the last two are a remote possibility).

I should have perhaps added the possible names to the description. so if ADMIN can find this photo could they add the possible names to the photo description please, and perhaps the age range? .... or do I need to email?

thanks in advance

The photograph referred to can now be found on the website in the Latest Additions Gallery and also Cinderford 2 Gallery (Page 6).

Admin

thank you.... that was quick!

I don't see it on Latest Additions though.

is it possible to add the other surnames that I mentioned please.... as it might alert those families to look closer

thank you so much

I just altered the title to show which surnames these young men could have

BARNARD.... BEVAN ….. GRIFFITHS.... GREEN.... HARRIS..... are the possibilities

???

Did any of your Partners Ancestors serve in WW1

Had a quick look at under Resources for the List of WW1 Servicemen in Cinderford - all these Surnames appear.

May be these 4 men went off to enlist in Gloucester and had this photograph taken.

----

Don't subscribe to FindmyPast - but Googling Lipton Chambers, Gloucester

January 1 1907, Gloucester Citizen - Gloucester, Gloucestershire, England, their new of rooms, recently acquired at Lipton Chambers, 103 Northgate-Street

? no idea who this is about - but Lipton Chambers, was 103 Northgate-Street, but looking at Google Maps, this is very near the railway station.

brilliant!!!
now that makes sense as Ida Gwynne who took the photo had (an un-named) studio at Northgate Street in the 1918 and 1920 directory!

our photograph dating expert said that she thought that they might be young men who enlisted at the same time. but their ages vary so much I doubt that they were friends.... and am still convinced they had family connections.

maybe I'm barking up the wrong tree!!!

but I love a mystery ;-)

tad late now, sorry I've been away too, but as soon as I saw your photo I also wondered if was a group of friends or acquaintances who'd just signed-up for WW1 service.

Re MPG's mention of the 1907 address, the full article talks about new rooms that had been acquired by the YMCA - I wonder if the men in the photo were perhaps lodging there ?.

And yes Northgate Street is near the city's historical centre, next to the Cathedral, and in those days the TWO Railway Stations and important cattle market. As kids c1970 we occasionally drove to the old swimming baths on Barton Street - the same ones these men may well have used - and I looked forward to maybe having to stop at Barton Gates level crossing if a train came out of Eastgate Station - by then the cattle market had moved out to the north-western edge of town, more space and handier for motorways. The current Gloucester station site was built by the Great Western Railway company, but the city was also served by the Midland Railway at Eastgate Station, the two were connected by a 1/4 mile long covered footbridge. Eastgate station closed in the mid 1970s to become an Asda superstore. After the BSE crisis c1990 the once-important and busy cattle market ran-dwon and is now a retail park and Tesco superstore.

This map from 1921 helps illustrate the layout of this busy working city before the developers moved in.
https://maps.nls.uk/view/101453169

Some great old photos and history of the Station area here, which maybe of interest.
https://www.bartonandtredworth.org.uk/content/place/buildings-and-places-general/images...

And also of Northgate Street, I see a Liptons shop was there, I wonder if Lipton Chambers were near/above it ?
https://www.visit-gloucestershire.co.uk/old-gloucester/gloucester-in-the-1950s60s-page37/

thanks for the great background history Jefff

I did a huge long message with lots of detail and then when I submitted it I lost it!!!!

No probs, glad it's of interest, I enjoyed reading them too. And then lo and behold on TV earlier was a repeat of Griff Rhys Jones' "Britain's Lost Routes". I switched it on to see him walking the centre of Gloster and the buildings that have survived since Queen Elizabeth 1st's visit way back when, spooky stuff.

Yes, I've had that happen to me a few times, in fact too many times considering I've been bitten in the past haha, should have learnt my lesson !. Yes there is a timeout festure. Sometimes if yer lucky you can press the back buttons and find your message will still be displayed in the reply box, so you csn quickly copy n paste it elsewhere. The best method for large replies is to either post a small part, and then keep adding more using the edit button, but that runs the "risk" of someone replying to your post before you've finished it. A better way for large posts is to write them off-forum, on a Word document or similar, and save it. Then copy it into the message box - but you must still do that in small chunks otherwise it will be rejected, and you must take extra caution when including links to other sites, as this may cause the thread to be automatically locked. This is all to help keep the forum free of spam messages.

Ancestry

On the Gloucestershire, England, Electoral Register for Gloucester 1918

Northgate Street

is

1186 Gwynne, Ida - No. 103 Abode, 2 Falkner St

--

plodding through the Register

Barton Ward and Polling Division 1

on page 169 of 266

Falkner Street

at No 2

862 GWYNNE, David Saxony -
863 GWYNNE, Emma Louisa

1921 Electoral Rol
2 Falkner Street

GWYNNE, David Sorony
GWYNNE, Hilda
GWYNNE, Emma Louisa

Ancestry has Public Members Tree on Ancestry - for

David Sarony GWYNNE

parents: David GWYNNE and Emma L WOOLLEY - with his Military Service 18 October 1917 - and marriage to Hilda JOHNSON 1920 in Gloucester and death: 31 July 1966, in NSW AUSTRALIA

GloucestershireBMD

Marriage at Gloucester Register Office 1920

David Sarony GWYNNE - to Hilda COLLIER and JOHNSON

Public Members Tree on Ancestry

UK, Royal Air Force Airmen Records 1918-1940

Name: David GWYNNE

Gender : Male

Age: 26

Birth Date: 1891

Service Date: 18 October 1917

Service No: 101549

Mother: Emma Louisa GWYNNE

Next ot Kin: Emma Louisa GWYNNE

Houselist Number: Mother

Household Members: Name: David GWYNNE and Emma Louisa GWYNNE

Can't open the actual document - need a 'higher' premium membership to view -

thank you MPGriffiths for all this info

the Gwynne family were only an 'aside'.... as the photograph of the four young men was taken by Ida Gwynne of Lipton Chambers, Gloucester, and I was trying to find out when she was there so that I could perhaps date the photo better. but the 'expert' told us that the date was definitely 1914-1919

New thoughts.... what does everyone think?:-

after lots of consideration I am beginning to think that these four young men might be the sons of my partner Mike’s great grandmother, Myra MILLS (married names, GRIFFITHS and BEVAN).

I’ve always thought that the younger of the group has a family resemblance to Mike’s father.
previously I discounted these young men, as Mike’s great grandmother had 5 sons. three from her first marriage and two from her second.

Although she was born in Wales in 1863, by the 1881 census she was living in Cinderford with her parents.

In the 1891 census I found her with her first husband and all three sons in Kidwelly, Carmarthenshire, Wales.

But by 1895 her husband had died and she was back in Cinderford with at least her 2 younger boys (probably because at least one of her sisters still lived in Cinderford).... she married Mike’s great grandfather Oliver BEVAN in late 1895.

In the 1901 census the family is living in Woodside Street, Cinderford, but her oldest son is not living with her but after some research I found him in Abertillery, Monmouthshire, Wales (the place of his mother’s birth) he was a boarder at the home of his aunt and uncle (his mother’s sister).

Perhaps it was 1914/15 and the older of the young men in the photograph were signing up and the others went with them as support? If this is indeed the family I now think it is.... then the older man sitting in the front of the photo died in 1918 leaving a young family. Both of the older-looking men were miners.... the one on the left was an office worker and if it is 1914 then he wouldn’t yet be old enough to sign up... and the one at the back would have been only 13 years old.

Very briefly I'm afraid,

I would have said the man at right is brother of man at front, similar facial features, nose, eyes, eye brows etc. The one at right is possibly? the older of the two. I wouldn't be surprised if all three dark-haired men are much of a muchness age-wise, mid 20s perhaps, altho' I'm not expert. Yes the man at right is dressed typical of a miner or similar working-class of the era. Looking again, I'd suggest the man at far left COULD be the brother of the other two dark men, albeit he looks slightly younger/less well-built, and is maybe less confident - perhaps he's the thinker / scholar of the three ?

I do not believe the fair man at the back is 13, I'd place him as 18 at the least.
He's also a rather snappy dresser which at first glance last week suggested a wealthier background than the others. I don't think a 13 year old lad would have dressed this way at that time.

???

ps by studying the original photo under magnification, can you see any markings etc on the lapel buttonhole "badges" worn by the middle pair - that's if they are badges, could be some helpful clues there ?

Very briefly I'm afraid,

I would have said the man at right is brother of man at front, similar facial features, nose, eyes, eye brows etc. The one at right is possibly? the older of the two. I wouldn't be surprised if all three dark-haired men are much of a muchness age-wise, mid 20s perhaps, altho' I'm not expert. Yes the man at right is dressed typical of a miner or similar working-class of the era. Looking again, I'd suggest the man at far left COULD be the brother of the other two dark men, albeit he looks slightly younger/less well-built, and is maybe less confident - perhaps he's the thinker / scholar of the three ?

I do not believe the fair man at the back is 13, I'd place him as 18 at the least.
He's also a rather snappy dresser which at first glance last week suggested a wealthier background than the others. I don't think a 13 year old lad would have dressed this way at that time.

???

ps by studying the original photo under magnification, can you see any markings etc on the lapel buttonhole "badges" worn by the middle pair - that's if they are badges, could be some helpful clues there ?

thanks Jefff

yes I agree that the man at the right is brother of man at the front, I think they have similar facial features. this is one of the reasons I have thought that they are two brothers from one father and two from another..... but with the same mother.

the one on the left side of the picture looks more like a scholar than a miner.... although one of Mike's other great grandfathers was a miner and in the only photo we have of him looks slight.

when I said that the man at the back might be 13 years old I was just saying that if they were signing up for war in 1914 then he would be only 13 years old..... I've always thought he looked about 14... but the photo-dating expert thought he would be later teens.... so she agrees with you.

I've tried to see the logos on the badges.... but it is difficult to make out anything of note.

thanks again

Your welcome, and yes it seems that we agree on most counts; yes not all miners were obviously big strong men to look at, and of course not all those working in the mines were at the coalface.

Regarding trying to estimate ages, not sure if it helps but here goes.

This wedding photo was taken at Longhope in August 1914.
https://forest-of-dean.net/gallery/longhope/mediafiles/l8.jpg

The groom was aged 26, his bride 21, but to my eyes they seem a little older.

The lad kneeling on the left was aged 16, altho in this instance to me he looks younger, more "childish".
He was killed in France in 1918.

Looking at the various Sons, i.e. GRIFFITH & BEVAN on the census returns...

e.g.

Albert Edwin GRIFFITHS born 1885 - Westbury on Severn

There is a British Army WW1 Medal Rolls Index Cards 1914-1920

for

Albert E GRIFFITHS - Monmouth R - Rank: Pte . Regimental No. 3158 and also says 226181

Date of Entry therein : 19 May 1915

? is this one of the brothers

thanks MPGriffiths

there were so many Albert E Griffiths in the Index Cards that I was at a loss to know which one to pick.... but I did 'settle' on this one.... so it is good that you confirm my thoughts.

if you look at https://www.sungreen.co.uk/cinderford_east_dean/baptist_war_memorial.html you will see that there is an A Griffiths from Cinderford who served in WWI..... and two of Mike's Barnard relations died in that war.

you aren't related to the Griffiths in this family are you?

No relation to the GRIFFITHS from the Forest (mine are the STEPHENS/WICKENDEN etc - Lydney, Blakeney)

My husband line - GRIFFITHS were for a few hundred years in Cirencester (Coopers by occupation) - but appreciate how difficult to research this surname, spelt in so many ways - and even brothers drop the S at the end of the name.

Looked at the Kelly Directory for 1914 Gloucester (on the net) but couldn't see Ida GWYNNE listed as a Photographer.

In the hope it saves you time looking elsewhere MPG, I also couldn't find Ida, or any other GYNNE photographers, in the 1914 or 1897 directories. Sorry you didn't see this earlier.
ref https://forum.forest-of-dean.net/index.php?id=51316

macast,
in case you've not seen them, this post lists the names of WW1 soldiers who had previously attended Cinderford's main school.
https://forest-of-dean.net/fodmembers/index.php?mode=thread&id=43700

This site lists all those commemorated on the Cinderford War Memorial Triangle, and many other places as well.
http://www.memorialtranscripts.co.uk/Compressed/gloucestershire_ww1.html

Also this site's own WW1 Servicemen database.
https://forest-of-dean.net/joomla/index.php/parish-records-search

thanks for these links Jefff

sad to see so many died from one community in WWI
but I can only find the BARNARD boys who I know died within a year of each other, one in Turkey at sea, and one in France on the Somme.... both from the same family. (both related to my partner Mike).