Searching my family tree Browning / Jones (General)
by Andrea1969 , Tuesday, June 27, 2017, 00:02 (2700 days ago)
Hi I am researching my family tree and am struggling to find some members of the family.
Arthur Browning b1855 wife Mary Yemms?
Children Annie, Emily, Edith, Alice, Alfred, Charley, Lily, Mary and Ellen Gertrude. Ellen Gertrude Browning otherwise known as Nellie had an illegitimate child Gwendoline Vera (my nan) but was bought up by Emily Browning and Arthur Jones.
Does anyone have any information of the family at all. I am trying to find out what happened to Nellie (Ellen Gertrude).
Searching my family tree Browning / Jones
by MPGriffiths , Tuesday, June 27, 2017, 09:51 (2699 days ago) @ Andrea1969
??? Have you checked the transcripts on this website..
Marriage at Weston under Penyard
30 December 1875
Arthur BROWNING aged 20, Labourer, residence : Weston under Penyard
father: Alfred BROWNING - occupation: Soldier
Mary YEMS: aged 22, Spinster, residence: Weston under Penyard
father: Richard YEMS, labourer
by banns
witnesses: Louisa JAMES and Henry JAMES
---
3 baptisms listed at Weston under Penyards
Ann - 1877
Emily - 9 March 1879
Edith - 1881
1881 Census - W-u-P
Arthur BROWNING - 26 - Ag. Lab. born Woodchester, Stroud
Mary - 27 - all born W-u=P
Anny - 3
Emily - 2
Edith - 3 months
----
1871 Census, Gloucestershire, Newington, Bagpath
Arthur BROWNING - Lodger aged 16 - born Woodchester
(living with Oda SELBY and her family.
---
1861 Census, Avening Glos (Stroud)
John HALL - 61 - Ag Lab, born Avening, Glos
Hannah HALL - 64 - born Hibury, Glos
Arthur BROWNING - Grandson - 6 - born Hibury Glos
GlosBMD - Arthur BROWNING birth reg - 1854, Stroud, Michinhampton, mother's maiden name: HALL
GlosBMD - Alfred BROWNING married Ann HALL - Stroud Register Office 1854
---
1841 Census, Avening, Glos
John HALL - 40
Hannah HALL - 37
Ann HALL - 10
Hester HALL - 7
Tree on Ancestry: John HALL married Hannah BENDALL -11 February 1819 - Avening, Glos
---
-----
1911 Census, Harry Hill, Drybrook, Glos
BROWNING
Arthur - 56 - Widower - born Woodchester, Glos
Alfred Edward - 23 all born East Dean
Charles William - 19
Lilly May - 17
Ellen Gertrude - 14
Arthur BROWNING (father Alfred )
by MPGriffiths , Tuesday, June 27, 2017, 12:03 (2699 days ago) @ MPGriffiths
Ancestry has a transcript of the baptism at Avening
4 May 1856
Arthur BROWNING - son of Alfred (a Solder) & Anne
There is also a christening at Avening
Edward BROWNING - 10 October 1858 - mother Ann BROWNING - occupation Servant
(Edward BROWNING and Infant buried at Avening - 26 October 1858)
-------
?
1891 census, Woodchester
Ann BROWNING aged 56 - married, General Servant, born Avening
1861 Glos Stroud,
Ann BROWNING - aged 30 - Married, General Servant, born Avening
Searching my family tree Browning / Jones
by Andrea1969 , Tuesday, June 27, 2017, 17:01 (2699 days ago) @ MPGriffiths
Many thanks I am quite new to searching my family tree but would welcome any help.
Searching my family tree Browning / Jones
by shepway , Tuesday, June 27, 2017, 16:10 (2699 days ago) @ Andrea1969
It would be a great help if you are able to give us the date of birth for Ellen Gertrude Maria (Nellie).
Mike
Searching my family tree Browning / Jones
by Andrea1969 , Tuesday, June 27, 2017, 16:51 (2699 days ago) @ shepway
Hi Ellen Gertrude Maria Browning was born on 4th January 1897 in Dancing Green East Dean. Many thanks.
Searching my family tree Browning / Jones
by shepway , Tuesday, June 27, 2017, 18:16 (2699 days ago) @ Andrea1969
Thank you, Andrea.
I was hoping to find her in the 1939 Register but sadly no luck so I have to assume that she died before 1939 or did not give her correct birth date.
The birth index tells us that Nellie's daughter Gwendoline was born in the Lambeth area:
Births Sep 1921
Browning Gwendoline V Browning Lambeth 1d 823
There is a marriage in Hampstead in 1927 as follows:
Marriages Sep 1927
Browning Nellie G Cutler Hampstead 1a 1723
Cutler Frederick T Browning Hampstead 1a 1723
and a death in 1936 of Nellie G Cutler:
Deaths Sep 1936
Cutler Nellie G 39 Hendon 3a 357
From GRO Index:
Name: Age at Death (in years):
CUTLER, NELLIE GERTRUDE 39
GRO Reference: 1936 S Quarter in HENDON Volume 03A Page 357
The age at date of death would give the year of birth as 1897 which is a match.
This may not be the Nellie you are looking for and the only way you can confirm is purchase the marriage and or death certificates in the hope that one or both provides family details.
Mike
Searching my family tree Browning / Jones
by Andrea1969 , Tuesday, June 27, 2017, 21:49 (2699 days ago) @ shepway
Can I ask how you found that marriage information please?
Searching my family tree Browning / Jones
by shepway , Tuesday, June 27, 2017, 23:15 (2699 days ago) @ Andrea1969
By searching the Civil Registration Index on www.freebmd.org.uk
This index is also available on Ancestry and here are the details from that site:
Name: Frederick T Cutler
Date of Registration: Jul-Aug-Sep 1927
Registration district: Hampstead
Inferred County: Middlesex
Spouse: Nellie G Browning
Volume Number: 1a
Page Number: 1723
Mike
Searching my family tree Browning / Jones
by Andrea1969 , Wednesday, June 28, 2017, 21:53 (2698 days ago) @ shepway
Really sorry but I just cant seem to get that information. How do you get on the civil registration?
Searching my family tree Browning / Jones
by MPGriffiths , Wednesday, June 28, 2017, 22:09 (2698 days ago) @ Andrea1969
There is on Public Members Tree on Ancestry (no access you have to contact the Member i.e. Sharpy69x - who has logged in today - and who has scanned the birth certificate of Gwendoline Vera Browning 1921) All the information appears to be private.
If you look under the Heading on the Front Page of Forest of Dean Family History Trust
Under the Heading,
Help - FAQ
There is a Section on Getting started in Genealogy.
Searching my family tree Browning / Jones
by Andrea1969 , Wednesday, June 28, 2017, 22:52 (2698 days ago) @ MPGriffiths
Hi yes that is me that scanned on that birth certificate of my nan Gwendoline Hixson. But how do you get to find out about a marriage?
Searching my family tree Browning / Jones
by Jefff , West London, Middlesex, Wednesday, June 28, 2017, 23:23 (2698 days ago) @ Andrea1969
Really sorry but I just cant seem to get that information. How do you get on the civil registration?
Hi Andrea,
if you're asking about the Marriage that Mike Shepway posted, his post mentions the FreeBMD website, which is where he found the details he's posted.
That very useful (and free to access) website can be found as https://www.freebmd.org.uk/
Mike's post included it as a hyperlink (hence it displays in blue), which can be access by right-clicking on the link, best done by opening-it onto a new tab or window of your computer.
When you first find the record it first displays like this;
Surname First name(s) Mother/Spouse/Age District Vol Page
Marriages Sep 1927 (>99%)
Browning Nellie G Cutler Hampstead 1a 1723 Scan available - click to view
Clarke Alfred V Williamson Hampstead 1a 1723 Scan available - click to view
Cutler Frederick T Browning Hampstead 1a 1723 Scan available - click to view
Williamson Mayavelda Clarke Hampstead 1a 1723 Scan available - click to view
Which simplifies in our case to
Surname First name(s) Mother/Spouse District Vol Page
Marriages Sep 1927
Browning Nellie G marries Cutler at Hampstead . 1a 1723
Cutler Frederick T marries Browning at Hampstead . 1a 1723
This site only gives the Quarter within which a BMD event was recorded, so in this case it means the Marriage was recorded in the Hampstead District of London sometime in July, August or September of 1927. One must purchase a Marriage Certificate to gain further information including the exact date and place, unless the actual Parish Record has been transcribed onto another website, such as those in this FoD site's PRs database. It's possible the wedding itself actually occured in late June, and was reported a little late. This is often seen when a marriage (or birth etc) happens during the Christmas season, when festivities and bad weather might delay people travelling to report the event.
-----------
This old forum thread details this and several other useful free websites.
http://www.forest-of-dean.net/fodmembers/index.php?mode=thread&id=35197
I recommend you spend some time reading it and trying the various sites - I only started this hobby a few years ago, and I am very tight-fisted, so free sites are a real boon to me. It also reinforces just how very lucky we are to have this FoD FHT site, which is probably the best free-access FH website in the whole UK.
Hoping ths helps, Jeff
Searching my family tree Browning / Jones
by Andrea1969 , Wednesday, June 28, 2017, 23:44 (2698 days ago) @ Jefff
So sorry I am not naming myself very clear. What I meant was what information did he put in to bring up a marriage as I have tried but can't find anything,
Many thanks.
Searching my family tree Browning / Jones
by Jefff , West London, Middlesex, Wednesday, June 28, 2017, 23:51 (2698 days ago) @ Andrea1969
No problems, we're here to help, and we've all made similar mistakes ourselves particularly when new to all this.
From the "search" button on the FreeBMD site, enter your target's name, in this case "Cutler" and then "Frederick T". The FreeBMD site is a bit temperamental, you must spell things exactly as it thinks you should, with no extra spaces etc (some sites are good at allowing for spelling errors, both now and historically when the records were first created, FamilySearch (LDS) being a good example of a user-friendly site).
Also you must always remember to use one of the "Type" filters, birth marriage etc. The FreeBMD site's own Help screen explains this.
https://www.freebmd.org.uk/search-help.shtml
Please also see my notes regarding using the FreeBMD site in that old thread I posted before, they should help you get to grips with the site.
For now it's probably best to not use any more of the site's filters, until you get used to the site and how it works.
Also be warned, sometimes the FreeBMD site sometimes "freezes" if it's too busy or "broken".
Does this help ?
Searching my family tree Browning / Jones
by shepway , Thursday, June 29, 2017, 08:44 (2697 days ago) @ Andrea1969
You will recall that I asked for Ellen/Nellie’s birth date. This was in the hope of tracing her in the 1939 Register which can be searched on the Find My Past website. A number of searches were made using the information available and she was not found. As I said earlier I could only conclude that she had either died or not given her correct date of birth.
My next step was to search the Birth, Marriage and Death Indexes. We know that she was single up until she gave birth to Gwendoline Vera so this would give us a start date. We have her full name and you tell us that she was also known as Nellie so we have 2 possible Christian names to use in searches. We also know that her second name is Gertrude but would add that the index only included the initial for second names after 1910.
Initially I looked for the birth of Gwendoline Vera by highlighting Births, inserting Browning as the Surname, Gwendoline as the First name and Browning against Spouse/Mother Surname. This is the result:
Births Sep 1921
Browning Gwendoline V Browning Lambeth 1d 823
Apart from the date it also told us where she was at that time.
Next step is to look for a possible marriage and using what we know we highlight Marriages and fill the search boxes as follows:
Surname: Browning
First Names: Ellen G
Date Range first box 1921 and leave the other box empty.
The result - No marriages
Next we make a similar search changing the first names to Nellie G and we have the following:
Marriages Jun 1924
Browning Nellie G Dungate Dartford 2a 1399
Marriages Sep 1927
Browning Nellie G Cutler Hampstead 1a 1723
So there are 2 possibles and we check them.
First of all by clicking on 1399 at the end of first entry we find that the Groom was:
Dungate George E Browning Dartford 2a 1399
I then looked for him in the 1939 Register and here is the entry:
Browning Household (5 People)
40 West Street , Bexley M.B., Kent, England
FIRST NAME(S) LAST NAME(S) DOB SEX OCCUPATION MARITAL STATUS SCHEDULE SCHEDULE SUB NUMBER
George E Dungate 04 Jun 1882 Male Painter & Paperhanger Married 51 2
Thomas Browning 25 Apr 1860 Male Builders' Labourer Retired Widowed 51 1
Nellie G Dungate 08 Oct 1895 Female Domestic Duties Unpai Married 51 3
Sorry, this record is officially closed. Check if you can open a closed record.
Kenneth E Dungate 12 Dec 1934 Male Under School Age Single 51 5
From this you will see that the date of birth Nellie did not match but the head of the household was Thomas Browning so needed further investigation.
First of all there is a matching birth for Nellie G:
Births Dec 1895
Browning Nellie Gertrude Dartford 2a 462
and she is with her family living in Bexley, Kent in 1901 Census:
Household Number Name Relation to Head Age Estimated Birth Year Gender Birth Place
106 Thomas Browning Head 41 1860 Male Blendon, Kent, England
106 Elizabeth Browning Wife 40 1861 Female Wickham, Kent, England
106 William Browning Son 8 1893 Male Bexley Heath, Kent, England
106 George Browning Son 6 1895 Male Bexley Heath, Kent, England
106 Nellie Browning Daughter 4 1897 Female Bexley Heath, Kent, England
106 Maud Browning Daughter 2 1899 Female Bexley Heath, Kent, England
So we can eliminate this marriage and we move onto the second one. Again we establish the Groom by clicking on 1723 at the end of the line and get:
Cutler Frederick T Browning Hampstead 1a 1723
My next step was to try to find them in the 1939 Register but no luck so I then looked for a possible death using FreeBMD:
Highlight Deaths and fill the boxes as follows:
Surname: Cutler
First name(s): Nellie G
Date Range: First box 1927 (this was the year they married) and leave the second box empty.
This produced:
Deaths Sep 1936
Cutler Nellie G 39 Hendon 3a 357
We know that Ellen/Nellie was born 1897 so add 39 and we get 1936.
There is also a search facility on the GRO (General Register Office) website and if we search for the death there we find her second name:
Name: Age at Death (in years):
CUTLER, NELLIE GERTRUDE 39
GRO Reference: 1936 S Quarter in HENDON Volume 03A Page 357
I hope that helps you and if you decide to order any certificates you can do so online at: https://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/default.asp
All the information you need is contained within this post.
Finally I searched for any possible children from the marriage but did not find any.
Mike
Searching my family tree Browning / Jones
by Andrea1969 , Thursday, June 29, 2017, 20:33 (2697 days ago) @ shepway
Oh wow what can I say that is brilliant and really cant thank you all so much for all your help. I am going to order the marriage or death certificate to try and resolve this.
I have been on ancestry for a few years now but still could not find her. I have just started going into it more and thought I would add to the forum which I am so glad I did.
Many thanks again and will keep you informed of my findings.
Searching my family tree Browning / Jones
by shepway , Thursday, June 29, 2017, 22:19 (2697 days ago) @ Andrea1969
I would recommend you obtain the Marriage Certificate in the hope that at least one of the family was there as a witness. Looking forward to your findings in due course.
Mike
Searching my family tree Browning / Jones
by Andrea1969 , Thursday, June 29, 2017, 23:04 (2697 days ago) @ shepway
I have ordered the marriage certificate and am crossing my fingers that we have found her.
Many thanks again.
Searching my family tree Browning / Jones
by MPGriffiths , Friday, June 30, 2017, 09:16 (2696 days ago) @ Andrea1969
?
Apart from
Birth Registered:
September Qtr 1921 : Lambeth District
Gwendoline V BROWNING/BROWNING
there is also
Birth Registered:
December Qtr 1916 Lambeth District
Lionel C BROWNING/BROWNING (and a death in 1917)
Searching my family tree Browning / Jones
by Andrea1969 , Friday, July 07, 2017, 13:44 (2689 days ago) @ MPGriffiths
Hi I think this might be my great grand mother as she was born the same year and states that the fathers name was Arthur Browning. Are you thinking the same ?
Searching my family tree Browning / Jones
by MPGriffiths , Thursday, June 29, 2017, 22:23 (2697 days ago) @ Andrea1969
As you belong to Ancestry - then go through
London, England Electoral Register
Had a quick look
1931, Harrow, Llanover Road
CUTLER, Frederick Thomas
CUTLER, Nellie Gertrude
1934, Barnet, HENDON
CUTLER, Frederick Thomas
CUTLER, Nellie Gertrude
?
Marriage 1940 - Hendon, Middx
Frederick T CUTLER
Marion A CRAWLEY
--
You can also trace
Frederick T CUTLER
Marion A CUTLER
in later Electoral Registers in Wembley West
Searching my family tree Browning / Jones
by Jefff , West London, Middlesex, Thursday, June 29, 2017, 14:51 (2697 days ago) @ shepway
I was hoping to find her in the 1939 Register but sadly no luck so I have to assume that she died before 1939 or did not give her correct birth date.
Mike
Hi Mike, I hope you're well. My heads rather mixed-up at the mo, the trials of trying to move house while all my household appliances including computers seem to be dying from old age just when I need some stability, hence my absence from the forum.
Anyhow, the above part of your post intrigued me, as you appear to be saying that everyone in the UK in 1939 should be findable (?!) within the Register except for the reasons you give.
Please can you clarify this for me ?
Forgive me if I'm mistaken, but unlike you I don't have full access to the Register so no real experience of regularly using it. I have tried a few free searches since it went online, and I seem to be very good at NOT finding people who I know were alive in the UK at the time. I had assumed/believed that this was because they were excluded from public viewing perhaps because they died relatively recently, altho I may well be wrong, and to be honest it was last year and I've forgotten the exact circumstances.
Please, if you have a minute, can you clarify my confusion.
Many thanks Jeff.
Searching my family tree Browning / Jones
by shepway , Thursday, June 29, 2017, 16:32 (2697 days ago) @ Jefff
There is an Advanced Search option with various boxes including the year of birth and birthday so by completing these boxes and searching known forenames etc there is a reasonable chance of finding the person you want.
This page on FMP gives further explanation:
http://www.findmypast.co.uk/1939register/1939-register-getting-started
If you come across a Closed record it is either because the person was born after 1915 and is still alive, or born after 1915 and their death hasn't been recorded in the register. Ellen/Nellie was born prior to this date and if she was alive in 1939 she would most likely have been found unless she gave an incorrect date of birth.
Hope this makes sense.
Mike
Searching my family tree Browning / Jones
by Jefff , West London, Middlesex, Thursday, June 29, 2017, 17:11 (2697 days ago) @ shepway
Many thanks kind sir for your full & fast reply, yes makes complete sense, ta !!.
Judging by your explanation and what I'd already deduced, the people I try researching should, as far as I can tell, have been listed and viewable in the Register. Maybe I was doing the fundamentals wrong re a tickbox or somesuch. Shame really as it put me off signing-up for the full FMP site access, as it seemed I wouldn't find what I was looking for.
Looks like I need to revisit it sometime and "must try harder.."
Thanks again, Jeff.
Searching my family tree Browning / Jones
by Andrea1969 , Tuesday, July 18, 2017, 23:50 (2678 days ago) @ Jefff
Hi I thought I would update you both regarding my findings.
I have the marriage certificate of Nellie Gertrude Browning and Frederick Cutler and did think this was my great grand mother.
However on Ancestry a hint arose and when I looked at the hint it was a school admission for a Nellie Browning , London in 1901.it also said that her fathers name was Arthur Browning and she was born December 1896. I am so confused by this and now not sure what to do and wonder if you could help any further?
Searching my family tree Browning / Jones
by probinson , S. Oxon, Wednesday, July 19, 2017, 08:11 (2678 days ago) @ Andrea1969
You're dealing with common names and it's not unlikely you'll find other families with the same names and even similar birth dates. I've had that happen several times and it can be disconcerting but it happens.
There is a Nellie Browning in the 1901 census aged 4, Father's name Arthur, born Paddington. That's likely the one Ancestry has picked up on. I would ignore it.
Searching my family tree Browning / Jones
by MPGriffiths , Wednesday, July 19, 2017, 10:15 (2677 days ago) @ Andrea1969
Ancestry
Baptism at Paddington
7 February 1897
Nellie Louisa BROWNING (death : January Qtr 1902, Paddington, and not on the 1911 census with her parents/siblings) - Family Search gives year of birth 1897
father: Arthur Octavus BROWNING (was 24 when he married in 1891 and was born in Stroud, father, Thomas a Wheelwright)
mother: Louisa BROWNING
Arthur and Louisa's (nee BRACKNALL) marriage is on Ancestry 1 September 1891, St Pauls -
------
On the marriage certificate for Nellie Gertrude BROWNING and Frederick CUTLER
? Was there a father's name listed for the Bride/Groom
? Who were the witnesses
? Occupations of the Bride and also the Groom
? Age of Bride and Groom
Searching my family tree Browning / Jones
by Andrea1969 , Wednesday, July 19, 2017, 15:55 (2677 days ago) @ MPGriffiths
Frederick Thomas Cutler, age 34, Bachelor, builders labourer, Father's name Charles Cutler also builders labourer.
Nellie Gertrude Browning age 30, spinster, no profession, Father's name Arthur Browning who was an ex collier.
Searching my family tree Browning / Jones
by MPGriffiths , Wednesday, July 19, 2017, 16:26 (2677 days ago) @ Andrea1969
What residence addresses are given for Nellie and Frederick ???
-
Searching my family tree Browning / Jones
by Andrea1969 , Wednesday, July 19, 2017, 22:05 (2677 days ago) @ MPGriffiths
5 Broomsleigh Street, West Hampstead was the address.
Searching my family tree Browning / Jones
by shepway , Wednesday, July 19, 2017, 22:33 (2677 days ago) @ Andrea1969
This was the address of the Cutler Family.
Taken from Electoral Roll:
Name: Charles Cutler
Year: 1925
County or Borough: Camden
Ward or Division/Constituency: Hampstead
Street address: 5 Broomsleigh Street
With
Sarah Liza (wife)
Frederick Thomas
and this is Frederick and Nellie in 1931:
Name: Frederick Thomas Cutler
Year: 1931
County or Borough: Harrow
Ward or Division/Constituency: Wembley Park Ward
Street address: 11 Llanover Road
With Nellie Gertrude
Frederick's parents in 1931:
Name: Charles Cutler
Year: 1931
County or Borough: Camden
Ward or Division/Constituency: Hampstead
Street address: 5 Broomsleigh Street
With
Sarah Liza (wife)
Charles Cutler Junior
Name: Frederick Thomas Cutler
Year: 1939
County or Borough: Camden
Ward or Division/Constituency: Hampstead
Street address: 5 Broomsleigh Street
with Charles Senior
Sarah Liza (wife of Charles Senior)
Charles Junior
Violet Martha (wife of Charles Junior)
This places Frederick with his parents in 1939 but he is not listed with them in the 1939 Register:
Cutler Household (5 People)
5 Broomsleigh Street , Hampstead, London, England
FIRST NAME(S) LAST NAME(S) DOB SEX OCCUPATION MARITAL STATUS SCHEDULE SCHEDULE SUB NUMBER
Charles Cutler 18 Dec 1862 Male Gardener Retired Married 38 1
Sarah Cutler 04 Jul 1864 Female Unpaid Domestic Duties Married 38 2
Charles Cutler 11 Dec 1901 Male Cemetery Gardener Married 38 3
Martha V Cutler 01 Oct 1906 Female Unpaid Domestic Duties Married 38 4
John Smith 26 Aug 1865 Male Unpaid Domestic Duties Widowed 38 5
Mike
Searching my family tree Browning / Jones
by Andrea1969 , Wednesday, July 19, 2017, 22:51 (2677 days ago) @ shepway
I must say I am even more confused now.
I need to find out if this Nellie Gertrude is my Great grandmother? What else can I do ?
Am I able to send email address ?
Am I able to post photographs ?
Searching my family tree Browning / Jones
by shepway , Thursday, July 20, 2017, 08:00 (2677 days ago) @ Andrea1969
The Marriage Certificate states that Nellie's father is Arthur Browning and an ex collier.
This is the family in 1911:
Name Relation to Head Birth Date Age Gender Marital Status Occupation Birth Place Address
Arthur Browning Head 1855 56 Male Widowed Colliery Workman Underground Woodchester, Gloucestershire Harry Hill, Drybrook, Glos
Alfred Edward Browning Son 1888 23 Male Single Manufacturers Roadman Clerk East Dean, Gloucestershire Harry Hill, Drybrook, Glos
Charles William Browning Son 1892 19 Male Single Colliery Workman Hewer Loader Underground East Dean, Gloucestershire Harry Hill, Drybrook, Glos
Lilly May Browning Daughter 1894 17 Female Single East Dean, Gloucestershire Harry Hill, Drybrook, Glos
Ellen Gertrude Browning Daughter 1897 14 Female Single Assistant Draper East Dean, Gloucestershire Harry Hill, Drybrook, Glos
As stated in my earlier post Nellie Cutler died in 1936:
CUTLER, NELLIE GERTRUDE 39
GRO Reference: 1936 S Quarter in HENDON Volume 03A Page 357
and given the Electoral Roll tells us that Frederick Thomas Cutler had returned to live with his parents in 1937 there is little doubt in my mind that this is your Nellie.
Mike
Searching my family tree Browning / Jones
by Andrea1969 , Monday, July 24, 2017, 19:12 (2672 days ago) @ shepway
Many thanks for all your help. However please can I ask how Ellen Gertrude Browning 1897 can be confirmed as being Nellie Gertrude Cutler when there is another Nellie Browning from London area? Could it be that Nellie Gertrude Cutler could be this Nellie Browning from London and not my Great Grandmother?
I also came across a Nellie Cutler of Bell End Lane, Bell Heath, Belroughton Bromsgrove Worcs ( Wife of Reginald Charles Cutler) who died in 1938 could this be her???
I also came across a hint which shows a Nellie Browning B 15.12.1896 on a school board for London. Again the name of the father was Arthur.
I am still confused about how I can find out which is my Great Grandmother.
Many thanks
Andrea
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Searching my family tree Browning / Jones
by shepway , Monday, July 24, 2017, 21:35 (2672 days ago) @ Andrea1969
I refer to my posting of 29 June which you can access by clicking this link:
http://forum.forest-of-dean.net/index.php?id=48504
In this post I set about eliminating possibles such as the other Nellie G Browning. This particular lady married George E Dungate:
Marriages Jun 1924
Browning Nellie G Dungate Dartford 2a 1399
Dungate George E Browning Dartford 2a 1399
Here are marriage details which tell us that Nellie’s father is Thomas:
Name: Nellie Gertrude Browning
Birth Year: abt 1896
Gender: Female
Age: 28
Event Type: Marriage
Marriage or Bann Date: 9 Jun 1924
Parish: Bexleyheath, Kent, England
Father: Thomas Browning
Spouse: George Edward Dungate
Spouse Age: 42
Spouse Gender: Male
Spouse Father: George Dungate
Parish as it Appears: Bexleyheath
Chapelry: Christ Church
and they are to be found in the 1939 Register living with Thomas Browning:
Browning Household (5 People)
40 West Street , Bexley M.B., Kent, England
FIRST NAME(S) LAST NAME(S) DOB SEX OCCUPATION MARITAL STATUS SCHEDULE SCHEDULE SUB NUMBER
George E Dungate 04 Jun 1882 Male Painter & Paperhanger Married 51 2
Thomas Browning 25 Apr 1860 Male Builders' Labourer Retired Widowed 51 1
Nellie G Dungate 08 Oct 1895 Female Domestic Duties Unpai Married 51 3
Sorry, this record is officially closed. Check if you can open a closed record.
Kenneth E Dungate 12 Dec 1934 Male Under School Age Single 51 5
This is Nellie’s birth registration:
Name: Mother's Maiden Surname:
BROWNING, NELLIE GERTRUDE EVES
GRO Reference: 1895 D Quarter in DARTFORD Volume 02A Page 462
and this tells us that her mother’s maiden name is EVES. From this we can find the marriage:
Marriages Dec 1891
Browning Thomas Woolwich 1d 1876
Eves Emma Woolwich 1d 1876
Marriage details:
Name: Thomas Browning
Estimated birth year: abt 1860
Age: 31
Spouse: Emma Eves
Spouse Age: 29
Record Type: Marriage
Event Date: 13 Dec 1891
Parish: St Nicholas, Plumstead
Borough: Greenwich
Father Name: Charles Browning
Spouse Father: James Eves
Register Type: Parish Register
and this is Nellie’s Baptism:
First name(s) Nellie Gertrude
Last name Browning
Gender Female
Birth year -
Birth place -
Birth place note Res: 13 Crown Street, Bexley Heath
Baptism year 1898
Baptism date 25 Jan 1898
Residence Bexley-Heath, Kent, England
Place Bexley Heath
County Kent
Country England
Father's first name(s) Thomas
Father's last name Browning
Father's name note Labourer
Mother's first name(s) Emma
Mother's last name -
Record set England Births & Baptisms 1538-1975
You will note that Nellie’s birth is registered in Dartford Registration District which includes Bexley: http://www.ukbmd.org.uk/reg/districts/dartford.html
So we are able to amass a considerable amount of detail which clearly tells us that this Nellie’s father is not Arthur who we are looking for.
You refer to a Nellie Browning born December 1896 and her father is Arthur:
This is the Birth Registration:
Births Mar 1897
Browning Nellie Louisa Paddington 1a 16
and this is her Baptism:
Name: Nellie Louisa Browning
Record Type: Baptism
Baptism Date: 7 Feb 1897
Father's name: Arthur Octavus Browning
Mother's name: Louisa Browning
Parish or Poor Law Union: Paddington Emmanuel
Borough: Westminster
Register Type: Parish Registers
and she died in 1902:
Deaths Mar 1902
Browning Nellie Louisa 5 Paddington 1a 73
I have searched the Birth Index on GRO Online for any birth in the name of Nellie Gertrude Browning between 1888 and 1902 and there is only one and we have established that she was born to Thomas Browning and his wife Emma nee Eves. I have also carried out a search for births in the name of Ellen Gertrude Browning in the same period and there is only one which is your ancestor:
Name: Mother's Maiden Surname:
BROWNING, ELLEN GERTRUDE MARIA HEMS Order
GRO Reference: 1897 M Quarter in WESTBURY ON SEVERN Volume 06A Page 251
And finally to eliminate Nellie wife of Reginald Charles Cutler this is the marriage:
Marriages Mar 1912
Cutler Reginald C Evans Dudley 6c 58
Evans Nellie Cutler Dudley 6c 58
Searching my family tree Browning / Jones
by Andrea1969 , Monday, July 24, 2017, 21:50 (2672 days ago) @ shepway
Thank you so much. I understand it a bit more now. To be honest I really need to do more research to understand how you come to all these conclusions I just wish I had more time. Now I will order the death certificate.
Many thanks again.
Searching my family tree Browning / Jones
by Andrea1969 , Wednesday, July 19, 2017, 15:57 (2677 days ago) @ MPGriffiths
Witnesses were Charles Cutler and Edward Frank Ruel.