On the 1861 Census, Edwin and Sarah - have a Mary Bayliss, Widow, aged 66, from Glos. Churcham living with them.
Witnesses at their wedding were: Samuel BAYLIS and Mary BAYLIS - who appear to witness a number of Pickthorne marriage

1861 Census, Edwin, says he is an Engine Driver to a Trashing Machine and born (ditto, from County above i.e. Gloucestershire, Wellington)

Family names are used all the times - from both sides of the family

Edwin (Silas Edwin) and Sarah use the names:

Charlotte Elizabeth, Harriet Sophia, Mary Louisa, Albert Silas etc.

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If you use the Advance Search for witnesses:

It would seem, Silas Edwin Williams - couldn't write - as he signed with a mark (x) Sarah appears to write her name.

At Newent - 16 September 1860, when Charles SYMONDS, married Catherine WEAVER

Accents would be very different between Counties and Countries and are often misinterpreted and spelling would differ.

Hi Julie,

There was certainly a lot of movement between South Wales and the Forest of miners. My Grandfather moved, temporarily, from the Forest to South Wales for work and my Father and his brothers were all born there. But they all moved back to the Forest later.

My Grandmother's origins were also in Wales but she lived much of her life in the Forest.

Both of these examples were later than the your dates though.

There's also a long history of drovers from Wales driving animals to England. There's an interesting book - The Drover's Roads of Wales - by Shirley Toulson and Fay Godwin that gives some information.

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Peter

Hi Julie

I may be going off on a tangent here but do you have any other information which suggests your Edwin Silas Williams was born in Wales other than the 1861 Census reference?

Am I correct that it is this Edwin Silas that you are trying to trace ?

Re the 1861 Census, were you looking at a transcript or an image of the Enumerators book page ?

Reason for grilling you is that i looked at the 1861 Census and i believe his place of birth was given as "W?llington, Gloucestershire."
The ? looks like an "e" but i can't find a Wellington in Gloucestershire although i am in Australia.
If ? was an "i" then there is a Willington Court Farm in Sandhurst Gloucestershire. I believe this might be about twelve miles from Newent.
The address for the Williams family in the 1861 Census record i looked at gave "Boulsdon Lane".

Also, if you have an image of the families disembarkation records into the USA , some of them will list the subjects place of birth.
I think they would have been specific about "English" or "Welsh" etc.

Some of my ancestors migrated from Wales to the USA late 19th Century and no way would they have confused the two entries, although i do not know the timeframe for when passenger lists started being more specific other than just a name .

Good luck

Sid Toomey

PS. What are the names of EdwinSilas' siblings and dates of birth if you have them ?

Hi

I agree with Mike (Shepway) about "Wellington" but will keep an open mind about "Willington".

i looked at Passenger list for the Emigrant ship "City of Washington" voyage Liverpool to New York in 1868 but no provision in the list for place of birth to be recorded.

Also looked at U.S.A. Census returns for 1870 and 1880. In both returns both parents and all children were recorded as being born in "England". In addition , one of the returns records Edwin Silas mother also being born in England.

As I believe the Welsh were pretty Nationalistic, I doubt they would like being recorded as England born. (Although I have been wrong many times before.)

Therefor, i think England is the best place to look.

Sid Toomey

Hi

The following looks promising to me.

1851 Census Parish of Newland has a family living at Millhill.
John and Ann Williams the parents
Among the children are these two :-
Edwin 20 years
John 20 years
The next household recorded as living at Millend.

Then from the Newland Parish Register of Baptisms for the year 1831
on 18th November twins were Baptised.
Edwin and John.
Parents match.
Living at Millend

There are two separate Baptism Registers showing Edwin and John. Identical details but recorded on a different part of a page . Maybe one of them is Bishops Transcripts?

https://www.british-history.ac.uk/vch/glos/vol5/pp195-231
British History on line for Newland.
The following passage mentions "Welinton"

Newland parish was created in the early Middle Ages by assarting from the Forest of Dean woodland and waste, and its formation was well under way by the start of the 13th century, when its church was built. It was called Welinton in 1220 (fn. 2) and was described as the 'new land of Welinton' in 1232 and 1247, (fn. 3) but later it was called simply Newland (Nova Terra). In 1305 the appropriator of the church, the bishop of Llandaff, was granted the tithes from all recent and future assarts from the Forest waste (fn. 4) and, though the fullest interpretation of the grant was prevented by the claims of other churches of the Forest area, (fn. 5) widely scattered parcels of land thus became part of Newland parish. Besides its main block, formed of the tithings of Coleford, Newland, and Clearwell, the parish had 22 detached parts, (fn. 6) and in 1881 its total area was 8,797 a. (3,560 ha.). (fn. 7)

There appear to be many other Williams records for Newland preceding the above.

Sid

Family Search, has a copy of Edward S WILLIAMS Death Record, 16 April 1888 St Peter, MN ..... Contributed by NadineBrown2 - which states he was born in England, and lists his parents as John and Anna WILLIAMS of England. Gloucestershire/Wiltshire accents most times do not sound the H' at the beginning of a word. Hence Anna - which is also an abbreviation for Hannah.

The Trees on Ancestry, give Edwin's death as - 16/4/1888 - St Peter Nicollet Minnesota USA.

(My x Grandad, some Census return's he's Edwin, then Edward, and Edwardo - when he remarries in Chile)
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Still question whether the family on the 1841 Census, as Dowdeswell, (Whittington) and links to Withington whether this is a possible family.

WILLIAMS

John - 40
Hannah - 40
Elizabeth - 15
Samuel - 10
Silas - 8
Sophia - 6
Edward - 3
John - 1

(not all their children's baptisms are on Ancestry) - Public Members Tree on Ancestry for this family. Contributor: Hazel MANTLE - which lists Silas Williams - 1833, Dowdeswell, parents: John & Hannah WILLIAMS.

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Silas WILLIAMS was witness to the wedding of Robert IRELAND to Elizabeth WILLIAMS (father John) at Dowdeswell - 14 October 1851.

And Robert lives in Withington - later census etc.

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Edwin WILLIAMS of Newland, father, John WILLIAMS labourer, aged 33 years of age when he married 1 November 1863 in Newland.

With DNA available now - this does solve many brickwalls. My x Grandad Edwin (sometimes called Edward) - went off to Chile in the 1870's and never came home to his Wife and my Grandad and his brother.

Through DNA - my x Cousins in Chile and America have proved we are decended from Edwin.