Many surnames in Britain derrive from areas nearby (General)
by rookancestrybest 
, United Kingdom, Sunday, February 08, 2009, 06:52 (5840 days ago)
Many names in Britain derrive from areas nearby. e.g. if someone came from the Malvern Hills and went to live in a neighbouring area they would be referred to as such and the name would become their surname. Worcestershire is not a long way from The Forest of Dean and it would have been highly likely that someone could have resettled in the area from there, though they could have been settled in the Forest of Dean for centuries/generations e.g. from Medaeval times.
Many surnames in Britain derrive from areas nearby
by Roger Griffiths , Sunday, February 08, 2009, 07:34 (5840 days ago) @ rookancestrybest
Very true. There has been a great deal of internal migration within the UK for centuries. English surnames tend to be occupational or geograhical locally. Welsh patronymic. FoD typically English or Welsh. FoD was originally Welsh territory. My surname is Welsh but back to 1720's, very little Welsh influence.
Actually, what started me off was a letter from a Swindon firm of solicitors to my father in 1959. His mother, born Uffington 1878 (Berkshire then)was beneficiary to a will of a lady from Cricklade, Wilts. She did not make a full will and so descendants of her brother and sister became beneficiaries. Hundreds of people were involved and it took the solicitors 10 years to sort out. That planted the bug in me, but I concentrated on my fathers family from that day to this.
Roger Griffiths
Saxon Mercia , Offas Dyke and Celtic origins
by slowhands , proud of his ancient Dean Forest roots, Sunday, February 08, 2009, 10:01 (5840 days ago) @ Roger Griffiths
FoD was originally Welsh territory
Steady on, That must be challenged ! :-)
Putting aside the Stone age, Iron age and Bronze age history.
Pre Roman times the Forest was probably under the Celtic Dobunni tribe, although the Silures may have controlled parts. The Dobunni were believed to be centred on what is today Cirencester and had some territory across the Severn. Whilst the Celtic Silures were settled in what is today south east Wales up into Herefordshire. It is said that the Silures were more hostile and generally fought against Roman occupation, whilst the Dobunni are said to have gone along with Roman occupation.
So my conclusion is that the early peoples of the Forest were Celtic in origin and probably a mix of Silure and Dobunni.
After the Romans, came a dark period where control of the Forest is very unclear, but I'm sure the Welsh kingdoms held parts. Then Offa of Mercia set out an earth work boundary - Dyke - to mark out the Saxon lands to the East and Welsh land to the West. Most of the Forest is West of the Dyke, in Saxon Mercia.
A while later and Wessex administered the Forest, then the Normans....
In many respects the Forest is an independent "island" - We bist Vorest !
Ask a true Forester and you might get a "neither Welsh or English" reply.
--
Ἀριστοτέλης A Gloster & Hereford Boy in the Forest of Dean ><((((*>
Saxon Mercia , Offas Dyke and Celtic origins
by Roger Griffiths , Sunday, February 08, 2009, 12:03 (5840 days ago) @ slowhands
Foresters today would'nt know. There was always a certain tension between Welsh and English inhabitants of Dean in the past. There's a quite recent book about Forest memories warning about the Welsh. The Silures were a Celtic tribe, but probably originated in the Mediterranian, hence the black hair and olive skin. Some of my family had it. The Welsh were a standing danger to both the Anglo Saxons and the Normans. The Bede was sent on a mission to Wales in the 700's and remarked on the continuous military training of the men folk.
Roger Griffiths
Saxon Mercia , Offas Dyke and Celtic origins
by 10noyrum , Monday, February 09, 2009, 01:03 (5839 days ago) @ slowhands
I wonder what evidence there is that Offa created a Dyke from North Wales to South. Why would he dig a shallow ditch to form a boundary between the FOD and Monmouthshire when there was a far more formidable barrier - tidal and fast flowing - called the Wye? Makes no sense. Just another myth.
Chris morgan
Offas Dyke
by slowhands , proud of his ancient Dean Forest roots, Monday, February 09, 2009, 02:07 (5839 days ago) @ 10noyrum
http://www.offasdyke.demon.co.uk/dyke.htm
however and when ever it was created - there is very much an earth work, or perhaps collection of earth works i.e. man made rather than natural feature.
--
Ἀριστοτέλης A Gloster & Hereford Boy in the Forest of Dean ><((((*>
Offas Dyke
by Roger Griffiths , Monday, February 09, 2009, 02:32 (5839 days ago) @ slowhands
Tank trap?
Roger
Many surnames in Britain derrive from areas nearby
by Paul Andrews , Shropshire, England, Sunday, February 08, 2009, 07:59 (5840 days ago) @ rookancestrybest
The National Trust website presents the findings of a project based at University College London (UCL) that is investigating the distribution of surnames in Great Britain, both current and historic. It allows users to search the databases that they have created, and to trace the geography and history of their family names.
The findings are shown on maps giving the surname distribution at Royal Mail Postal Area level.
There needed to be at least 100 people with the name on the Electoral Register in 1998 to be in the database.
In 1881 the majority of 'Malverns' were in North Gloucestershire/South Worcestershire area.
By 1998, whilst there is still a concentration of the name in North Gloucestershire/South Worcestershire, there has been a significant growth in the name in other parts of the country; most noticably The Lake District.
Many surnames in Britain derrive from areas nearby
by Roger Griffiths , Sunday, February 08, 2009, 08:53 (5840 days ago) @ Paul Andrews
There's a lot more to do with this. In the last five years or so a sample DNA test was conducted by scientists in central and Eastern England. More than 60 percent of people were proved to be racially Anglo Saxons. I don't think it was a viable test because the subjects were only required to be third generation in the area (ie back to about 1900). I previously commented in another Post about internal migration within the UK.
If that percentage is correct there arises the question of genocide by the Anglo Saxons on the previous Celtic population. That's problematical. The Celtic population is said to have been 2 Million. The Anglo Saxon invaders 200,000 and this is around 650AD. 200K would have difficulty in wiping out 2M people.
Roger Griffiths
DNA testing
by Ernest Hatton , Sunday, February 08, 2009, 19:37 (5839 days ago) @ Roger Griffiths
I think the DNA testing being done now will show that most males from the Forest of Dean are Celts. I have a FOD DNA research at FTDNA.
DNA testing
by 10noyrum , Sunday, February 08, 2009, 23:17 (5839 days ago) @ Ernest Hatton
There is a further way of looking at this problem. I have used the FOD data base on this site to find out the percentage of people with Welsh names recorded therein. The names I consider Welsh are Morgan, Worgan, Jones, James, Probert, Roberts, Evans, Davies, Thomas, Williams, Powell, Howell, Edwards, Pugh, Hughes, Lloyd, Griffiths, Pritchard, Prosser, Lewis, Bennett, Baynham, Powys, Floyd, Merrett and Merry (corruptions of Meyrick), Perkins, Harries and Harris, Yarworth and Yorath (corruptions of Iorwerth), Gwilliam, Allan, Rees, Daws, Frowen, Goff, Gough, Gethin, Hopkins, Humphrys and Kear. If this is done the number of occurrences of these names rises from about 7% in the 1500s to just over 30% in about 1800. Thereafter the percentage falls as they moved back to Wales - as did my great grandfather - to take advantage of the mining opportunities in South Wales. The percentage falls to less than 20% in the middle of the 20th century.
This data is not surprising since the Act of Union of 1536 enacted by Henry VIII gave Welshmen access to England. This followed the elevation of his father the Welshman Henry VII to the English thrown following his victory at the Battle of Bosworth Field in 1485.
This more quantative data confirms the evidence of the Reverend Nichols in his book on the Forest of Dean written in 1858. He refers to many families bearing the following Welsh names: "Williams; Morgan; Pritchard; Watkins; Roberts; Gwilliam; Hughes; Jenkins; Griffiths; Llewellyn etc". This contrasted with the names in the list of “Free Miners of 400 years earlier which contained mostly English names". However, I do not have access to a list of Free Miners from 400 years ago to confirm this evidence.
A similar analysis should be possible using the censuses.
Chris Morgan
DNA testing
by Roger Griffiths , Monday, February 09, 2009, 00:09 (5839 days ago) @ Ernest Hatton
My family was in Mitcheltroy, Mon. for the 18th Century, perhaps for centuries earlier. The move to FoD in early 1800's was probably due to job losses in agriculture. My GGGrandfather, now an iron miner, married a Susan Carpenter in 1825. Presumably her family were English.
Although My GGrandfather married a Sarah Jane Evans from Westbury in 1857, most of the wives in the family were English. Indeed, those Evans's, as farmers, appear to have been in Elton?, Westbury for some time.
Roger Griffiths