Mary Ann Freeman: Morgan connection or not?

Hi everyone,

I stumbled upon something and now I am trying to find the connection.
I've searched the forum for "Freeman" and have read quite a number of threads. There was also a more specific thread on Morgans and Freemans, located here: http://www.forum.forest-of-dean.net/index.php?id=3954

So far, I have not found quite what I am looking for...
Edward Morgan married Betsy (Elizabeth) Waite 1 Sep 1867 at Holy Trinity.
They had Edward (b. 1864), George (b. 1866), William (b. 1868), Henry (b. 1871), Julia Bertha (b. 1874), Rosina (b. 1874), Alfred (b. 1876), and Arthur (b. 1879)

I've previously asked for help on the Morgan-Waite connection and it was determined that Edward/Edwin was probably married previously due to the age difference and the fact that there was a John (b. 1860) and a Mary Anne (b. 1861) on the 1871 census. I have the 1871 and 1881 census returns for this family (Edward as head). I have been unsuccessful locating Edward/Edwin prior to that time.

I decided to try to expand and look for the male members of the family in the 1901 census. I've been a little hesitant to jump in because it seems like such a huge task with a common name. Anyway, I decided to start with George, born 1866.

Record_ID: 9951
Entry_Number: 175
Year: 1894
Month: Apr
Day: 2
Grooms_Surname: MORGAN
Grooms_Forenames: George
Grooms_Age: 28
Groom_Condition: Bachelor
Grooms_Occupation: Collier
Grooms_Residence: Cinderford
Grooms_Fathers_Surname: MORGAN
Grooms_Fathers_Forenames: Edwin
Grooms_Fathers_Occupation: Collier
Brides_Surname: FREEMAN
Brides_Forenames: Louisa
Brides_Age: 25
Brides_Condition: Spinster
Brides_Occupation:
Brides_Residence: Lydbrook
Brides_Fathers_Surname: FREEMAN
Brides_Fathers_Forenames: Hezekiah Henry
Brides_Fathers_Occupation: Collier
Licence_or_Banns: Banns
Date_of_Banns:
Signature_or_Mark: both sign
Witness_1: Albert Morgan Freeman
Witness_2: Mary Ann Freeman
Other_Witnesses:
Officiating_Minister: H T Hoitt
Event: Marriage
Memoranda:
Notes:
Register_Reference: P208 IN 1/5
Page_Number: 88
Parish_Chapel: Lydbrook
Soundex_Groom: M625
Soundex_Bride: F655

Then I decided to look for Edward (b. 1864):
Record ID 20987
Entry Number 96
Year 1887
Month Apr
Day 2
Grooms Surname MORGAN
Grooms Forenames Edward
Grooms Age 24
Groom Condition Bachelor
Grooms Occupation Coal miner
Grooms Residence Bilson Green
Grooms Fathers Surname Morgan
Grooms Fathers Forenames Edward
Grooms Fathers Occupation Coal miner deceased
Brides Surname ROBERTS
Brides Forenames Annie
Brides Age 26
Brides Condition Spinster
Brides Occupation [not stated]
Brides Residence Bilson Green
Brides Fathers Surname Roberts
Brides Fathers Forenames George
Brides Fathers Occupation Miner
Licence or Banns Banns
Date of Banns [not stated]
Signature or Mark Both sign
Witness 1 Benjamin Freeman
Witness 2 Mary Ann Freeman
Other Witnesses
Officiating Minister William Barker Vicar
Event Marriage
Memoranda
Notes
Register Reference P109 IN 1/8
Page Number 48
Parish Chapel Drybrook

And there she was - Mary Ann Freeman. She witnessed the Edward Morgan wedding before the George Morgan-Louisa Freeman wedding.

Then, again she is haunting me…

I noticed there was a Freeman inquest on the Inquest additions of 3 May 2009. John Morgan Freeman. Here we go again. I look up the inquest. John is the son of Hezekiah Freeman. OK, I make of note that and just for fun, I search on “Morgan”. I check out a few of the inquests and I get to page 287 – “Elizabeth Morgan”.

All evidence points that this is my Betsy Waite Morgan. Born in 1837, this woman dies in 1887 at the age of 50, widow. That checks. Verdict is “Syncope, the result of General disease of the heart, death having been accelerated by a family worry & anxiety”.

Edward’s possible death:
Record_ID: 55903
Entry_Number: 1265
Year: 1887
Month: Jan
Day: 11
Surname: MORGAN
Forenames: Edward
Residence: Cinderford
Age_at_death: 62 y[ea]rs
Officiating_Minister: D W Rees
Event: Burial
Cause_of_death:
Memoranda:
Notes:
Register_Reference: P85/1 IN 1/13
Page_No: 159
Parish_Chapel: Cinderford St Johns
Soundex: M625

Guess who is a witness? “Mary Ann Freeman, Wife of Benjamin Freeman"!
Is Mary Ann the Mary Ann Morgan that I find on the 1871 Census returns for the Morgan family? That does not seem to fit just yet. In the FreeBMD, I found a marriage in Dec 1886 for a Benjamin Freeman and a Mary Ann Harris, District Westbury on Severn, Vol 6a, Page 451.

I was hoping I had found my Mary Ann as John and Mary Ann are still a mystery to me. Maybe she is just a Freeman relation and that is all.

Thank you very much for your time and consideration; any ideas are most certainly appreciated!

Wendy

Post reply

3073 views

Hi All,

I just wanted to say thanks again to all of you that help make this site possible by gathering, transcribing, helping, etc. I have had this brick wall for a bit now, but now it is finally starting to come together!

I have found my Mary Ann. I need to verify her mother, which may prove difficult, but I have finally tracked her down, thanks to the help of this site.

If any one has found that our families match, please let me know and I'll send more information. I don't want to put anyone to sleep!

To briefly summarize:

I received a death certificate for Elizabeth (Waite) Morgan d. 22 June 1887. On it, it states there was an inquest on 24 June 1887. I found the inquest on this site. Mary Ann Freeman is again mentioned in the inquest, as wife of Benjamin Freeman, which I had suspected (previous threads).

I searched the BMD and FOD. I found only a marriage in the BMD for a Benjamin Freeman and Mary Ann Harris that seemed to fit. I then started to look for Mary Ann Morgan and Mr. Harris. Yep, found the marriage on this site! It was in 1882. Then I found that poor John dies in 1883, as I found the Freemans keeping house in 1891. (The marriage for Freeman-Harris was in 1886).

Anyway, it's been a very productive night and I must say that sleep is so overrated. ;)
I may be up all night as I am now adding Freeman, Harris, and Morgan ancestors all over the place.

Thanks again FODFH!

P.S. I have found the census records for the Harris-Morgan and Freeman-Harris/Morgan families, if anyone is in need of them. I can post here or send via e-mail.

Post reply

2636 views

'I've previously asked for help on the MORGAN-WAITE connection and it was determined that Edward/Edwin was probably married previously due to the age difference and the fact there was a John (b1860) and a Mary Anne (b1861) on the 1871 census

I have the 1871 and 1881 census returns for this family (Edward as head). I have been unsuccessful locating Edwrd/Edwin prior to that time'

Edward MORGAN married Betsy (Elizabeth) WAITE - 1 Sept 1867 at Holy Trinity (residence Bilson Green)

1861 Census, East Dean Holy Trinity
Bilson Road

Edward MORGAN - 42 - Coal Miner
Elizabeth MORGAN - 23
Rebecca MORGAN - 4
John MORGAN - 2

1871 Census

Ed MORGAN - 56 - born Cinderford
Elizabeth MORGAN - 32
Rd - 15 - Son (Collier) **** c1856 (FoD records - baptised as Richard WAITE - 17 May 1857 -
John - 12
Mary Ann - 10
George - 6
Wm - 3

1881 Census, Bilson Green

MORGAN

Ed - 56 Collier, born Cinderford
Elizh - 46
Mary A 20, Edward 17, George 16, William 13, Henry 9, Julia 6, Arthur 5 - Alfred 1 (census records have the boys ages the wrong way round)

(FOD records - Alfred - 23 July 1876, Arthur - 10 August 1879, Drybrook, parents Edward & Elizabeth)

---

Using the Advance Search for children of Ed and Elizabeth

George - 1866 - parents Edwin/Elizabeth, Bilson Green, Coal Miner, Drybrook
William - 1868 - parents Edward/Elizabeth, Bilson Green, Collier, Drybrook
Henry - 1871 - parents Edward/Elizabeth, Bilson Green, Miner, Drybrook

---

***

FOD records, Marriage at Drybrook - 12 january 1890

Richard MORGAN, age 32 (c1858) - Widower, Coal Miner, residence Flaxley Meend

father: Edward MORGAN, Coal Miner, (deceased)

married

Ellen Annie FRENCH, age 25, Spinster, residence: Upper Bilson
father: Alfred FRENCH, Coal Miner

witnesses: Alfred FRENCH, Caroline HALE

----

1891 Census, East Dean, Cinderford

Richard MORGAN - 32 Coal Miner, born Cinderford
Ellen - 27
Alfred C.R. - 5 months
Alfred MORGAN - 14 - Relative (this could possibly be the Son of Edward & Elizabeth MORGAN)

---

??? 1881 Census, Dorset, Portland, Her Majesty's Prison

Richard MORGAN, Convict, 23, Collier, born Gloucester, Gloucestershire

1881 Census, London Brixton District, Her Majesty's Corwick Prison

John MORGAN - 23 Coal Miner, born Gloucester Bilson

---

Looking at the Gloucestershire Genealogical Database (Goal)

13 June 1876, Richard MORGAN (Collier) age 19 of Cinderford, (c1856 as 1871 census)
13 June 1876, John MORGAN (Collier) age 18 of Cinderford (c1858 - age 2 1861 census)

---

Ancestry, Criminal records - Gloucester

2 August 1876, Richard MORGAN - Aiding & Abetting rape (imprisonment 15 years)

2 August 1876, John MORGAN - ditto

---

The complete list for the 'crime' were (in order) on Ancestry Criminal Records + cross-checking with Goal Records, Gloucestershire Genealogical Database

John MORGAN
William WATKINS - age 21 and a Collier from Cinderford
Thomas FISHER - age 17 and a Blacksmith from Cinderford
Henry COCKAYNE - age 18 and a Collier from Cinderford
Jessie COCKAYNE - age 17 ditto
Richard MORGAN
Frederick DYER - age 17 and Collier from Cinderford
William BARRETT - age 27, Collier from Cinderford
Thomas GOODE - age 20 , Collier from Woodside

---

previous thread

http://www.forum.forest-of-dean.net/index.php?mode=thread&id=16321
with details of their crime

---

May be a link to Betsy death in 1887 i.e. Verdict Syncope - the result of general disease of the heart, death having been accelerated by a family worry and anxiety.

Post reply

2865 views

Hi,

I was very interested in what you posted - it will take a little bit to settle in. You have the right family; I did not know much about Richard or John, so you are giving information that I did not have. I could not really find John or Richard when I looked - there are a lot of Morgans and I had no idea where to start!

Edward also died on 7 Jan 1887, to add to Betsy's misery. I thought that was what would have accelerated her condition, but what you have posted certainly would push someone to their limit!

Richard Morgan was born Richard Waite on 17 Mar 1857.

Thanks again. I will have to have a look on Ancestry for the items you noted.

Wendy (Morgan) Malinowski

Post reply

2699 views

I have an Edward Morgan who was the brother of my gg grandfather Henry Morgan. Henry was born on 19th July 1818 Lydney. Edward was born on 11th February 1816 Lydney.
Have you had your Y-DNA tested (I have done so)?
Chris,
City of Newport,
Wales.

Post reply

2638 views

Hi Chris,

I believe we have discussed this before and that we are searching two separate lines.
I have not done any DNA analysis at this point.

My Henry Morgan was born 1871 to Edward and Betsy (Waite) Morgan. Is that your Henry? Also, my Edward appears to be born between 1822 and 1825 in most records that I have uncovered.

Husband: Edward Morgan
Birth: 06 Mar 1822 in Cinderford, Gloucestershire, England ??? Based upon Galder marriage. Cannot find conclusive evidence that Ellen was his wife.
Death: 07 Jan 1887 in Bilson Green, East Dean, Gloucestershire, England
Burial: 11 Jan 1887
Marriage: 01 Sep 1867 in Drybrook, Gloucestershire, England
Father: William Morgan ??? Based upon Galder marriage possibility.
Mother:
Other Spouses: ?????? Ellen Galder (06 Sep 1852 in Cinderford, Gloucestershire, England)

Wife: Elizabeth Waite
Birth: 18 Dec 1838 in Bruoly Hill, Gloucestershire, UK
Death: 24 Jun 1887 in Cinderford, Gloucestershire, England
Burial: 25 Jun 1887 in Cinderford, Gloucestershire, England; Cinderford St. John
Father: John Waite
Mother: Eliza Jenkins

Children:

Name: Edward Morgan
Birth: 1864 in Cinderford, Gloucestershire, England
Marriage: 02 Apr 1887 in Drybrook, Gloucestershire, England
Spouse: Annie Roberts

Name: George Morgan
Birth: 1866 in Cinderford, Gloucestershire, England
Marriage: 02 Apr 1894 in Lydbrook, Gloucestershire, England
Spouse: Louisa Freeman

Name: William Morgan
Birth: 18 Jun 1868 in Cinderford, Gloucestershire, England
Death: 05 May 1943 in Chicago, Cook, Illinois, USA
Burial: 08 May 1943 in Chicago, Cook, Illinois, USA
Marriage: 21 Jul 1890 in Morris, Grundy, Illinois, USA
Spouse: Margaret Lloyd

Name: Henry Morgan
Birth: 1871 in Cinderford, Gloucestershire, England
Spouse: Elizabeth UNKNOWN

Name: Julia Bertha Morgan
Birth: 17 Dec 1873 in Bilson Green, Cinderford, Gloucester, england
Marriage: 1896 in Bristol, england
Spouse: Frank Edgar Hatcher

Name: Rosina Morgan
Birth: 17 Dec 1873 in Cinderford, Gloucestershire, England

Name: Alfred Morgan
Birth: 1876 in Cinderford, Gloucestershire, England

Name: Arthur Morgan
Birth: 1879 in Cinderford, Gloucestershire, England
Marriage: 3 Aug 1901
Spouse: Florence Gutcher

Prior Marriage, Spouse unconfirmed:
Children:
Name: John Morgan
Birth: Abt. 1859 in Cinderford, Gloucestershire, England

Name: Mary Ann Morgan
Birth: Abt. 1861 in Cinderford, Gloucestershire, England
Death: Apr 1899 in Cinderford, Gloucestershire, England
Burial: 18 Apr 1899 in Cinderford, Gloucestershire, England
Marriage: Dec 1886 in Cinderford, Gloucestershire, England
Spouse: Benjamin Freeman
Other Spouses: John Harris Marriage: 26 Oct 1882 in Cinderford

Child of Betsy Waite - no father listed on birth certificate
Name: Richard Morgan born Richard Waite
Birth: 17 Mar 1857 in Bilson Green, East Dean, Gloucestershire, England
Death: 15 Mar 1911 in Gloucestershire, England
Marriage: 12 Jan 1890 in Drybrook, Gloucestershire, England; Drybrook
Spouse: Ellen Annie French

Post reply

3105 views

I think you are right: my Edward Morgan was born in 1816. Still would be cool if we had Y-DNA evidence to confirm all this: there are so many confusing Morgan lines in the Forest of Dean.
Chris,
City of Newport,
Wales

Post reply

2616 views

http://www.forum.forest-of-dean.net/index.php?id=8856

http://www.forum.forest-of-dean.net/index.php?mode=thread&id=8213&page=7&ca...

--
Ἀριστοτέλης A Gloster & Hereford Boy in the Forest of Dean ><((((*>

Post reply

2617 views

RSS Feed of thread

Forest of Dean FHT Forum

Mary Ann Freeman: Morgan connection or not? (General)

Mary Ann Freeman: Morgan connection or not?

Mary Ann Freeman: (FOD boys in Prison)

Mary Ann Freeman: (FOD boys in Prison)

Mary Ann Freeman: Morgan connection or not?

Edward Morgan - Betsy Waite Family

Edward Morgan - Betsy Waite Family

Edward MORGAN - Betsy WAITE Family - prior threads