I recently found a record for a Charles Spencer in the UK criminal records data base on ancestry. This could be my ancestor but no address was given. The date of the trial was 3rd June 1877 at Gloucester Trinity Sessions. He was convicted of soliciting a John Harding to housebreak and robbery. Does anyone know how I could check the addresses of the above. Thanks in anticipation, Chrisp.

What was the sentence ?

If >4 years

Where is your man in 1881 ? Which prison - cross check his age etc

http://ww3.gloucestershire.gov.uk/genealogy/Search.aspx

Year Surname Forename Gender Parish Reference Occupation Catalog
1877 spencer charles U Stroud Q/Gc6/6 porter 272 Gaol

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Ἀριστοτέλης A Gloster & Hereford Boy in the Forest of Dean ><((((*>

hello slowhands, thanks for your prompt reply. The sentence was 3 monthe for Charles Spencer. I don't know where he was in 1881, he may have changed his name to Nelmes ( also transcribed as Belmes and Helmes in later censuses) and moved first to Cumbria, then to North Yorks. I am trying to find out why my great great grandfather may have changed his name and taken his mothers maiden name. In 1871 he was near Lydbrook. It seemed a coincidence that he assisted John Harding who may have lived in the same area.

Gloucestershire Archives will send you a photocopy of the record from their database. Their database is free to use on the internet- checkout their website for more information.

I think we can say that the one you have found is from Stroud not Lydbrook

Year Surname Forename Gender Parish Reference Occupation Catalog
1877 harding john U Stroud Q/Gc6/6 factory hand 272 Gaol

<<< <<< Vention John HARDING

1861 Vention Lydbrook area
James Harding abt 1820 Ventnor, Gloucestershire, England Head East Dean, Gloucestershire
Ann Harding abt 1818 Hope, Herefordshire, England Wife East Dean, Gloucestershire
William Harding abt 1847 East Dean, Gloucestershire, England Son East Dean, Gloucestershire
Thomas Harding abt 1852 East Dean, Gloucestershire, England Son East Dean, Gloucestershire
John Harding abt 1854 East Dean, Gloucestershire, England Son East Dean, Gloucestershire
Sophia Harding abt 1857 East Dean, Gloucestershire, England Daughter East Dean, Gloucestershire

1871 Lydbrook area
James Harding 51
Ann Harding 56
William Harding 24
Elizabeth Harding 21
Thomas Harding 19
John Harding 17
Ann Morgan 2

1881
John Harding abt 1854 Vention, Gloucestershire, England Head Westbury On Severn - East Dean, Gloucestershire
Alice Harding abt 1858 Walford, Hereford, England Wife Westbury On Severn - East Dean, Gloucestershire
William Josh. Harding abt 1880 Ruardean, Gloucestershire, England Son Westbury On Severn - East Dean, Gloucestershire

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Ἀριστοτέλης A Gloster & Hereford Boy in the Forest of Dean ><((((*>

Year: 1857
Month: Dec
Day: 13
Grooms_Surname: NELMES
Grooms_Forenames: John
Grooms_Age: 23
Groom_Condition: Bachelor
Grooms_Occupation: Collier
Grooms_Residence: East Dean
Grooms_Fathers_Surname: Nelmes
Grooms_Fathers_Forenames: Charles
Grooms_Fathers_Occupation: Collier
Brides_Surname: SMITH
Brides_Forenames: Sarah Ann
Brides_Age: 21
Brides_Condition: Spinster
Brides_Occupation:
Brides_Residence: East Dean
Brides_Fathers_Surname: Smith
Brides_Fathers_Forenames: Richard
Brides_Fathers_Occupation: Mason
Licence_or_Banns: Banns
Date_of_Banns:
Signature_or_Mark: He signs She marks
Witness_1: Mark of Charles Young
Witness_2: Ann Jones
Other_Witnesses:
Officiating_Minister: Tho[ma]s Gosselin Smythies
Event: Marriage
Memoranda:
Notes:
Register_Reference: P85/1 IN 1/4
Page_Number: 124
Parish_Chapel: Cinderford St Johns

Year: 1860
Month: Apr
Day: 15
Parents_Surname: NELMS
Child_Forenames: Charles
Fathers_Forenames: John
Mothers_Forenames: Sarah Ann
Mothers_Surname:
Residence: Woodside
Occupation: Collier
Officiating_Minister: W[illia]m Duckett
Event: Baptism
Memoranda:
Notes:
Register_Reference: P85/1 IN 1/2
Page_Number: 13
Parish_Chapel: Cinderford St Johns

1861
John Nelms abt 1835 East Dean, Gloucestershire, England Head East Dean, Gloucestershire
Sarah Ann Nelmes abt 1837 Little Dean, Gloucestershire, England Wife East Dean, Gloucestershire
Elizabeth Nelmes abt 1859 East Dean, Gloucestershire, England Daughter East Dean, Gloucestershire
Charles Nelmes abt 1860 East Dean, Gloucestershire, England Son East Dean, Gloucestershire
Abia Young abt 1811 Stonehouse, Gloucestershire, England Lodger East Dean, Gloucestershire
Alfred Young abt 1850 Westbury, Gloucestershire, England Son East Dean, Gloucestershire

1871 High St Cinderford
Abia Young 63
Sarah Ann Helmes 23
Elizabeth Helmes 12
Charles Helmes 11
William Helmes 8
Mary Jane Helmes 5
Annah Alice Helmes 3

1881
Sarah Ann Nelmes abt 1839 Little Dean Head Westbury On Severn - East Dean, Gloucestershire
Charles Nelmes abt 1859 East Dean Son Westbury On Severn - East Dean, Gloucestershire
Mary T. Nelmes abt 1866 East Dean Daughter Westbury On Severn - East Dean, Gloucestershire
Annelisa Nelmes abt 1868 East Dean Daughter Westbury On Severn - East Dean, Gloucestershire
Lou Nelmes abt 1873 East Dean Daughter Westbury On Severn - East Dean, Gloucestershire

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Ἀριστοτέλης A Gloster & Hereford Boy in the Forest of Dean ><((((*>

Name:Caroline Nelms
Name: Henry Spencer
Year of Registration: 1846
Quarter of Registration: Apr-May-Jun
District: Dursley
County: Gloucestershire, Wiltshire
Volume: 11
Page: 391

Name: Charles Spencer
Year of Registration: 1853
Quarter of Registration: Oct-Nov-Dec
District: Wheatenhurst
County: Gloucestershire
Volume: 6a
Page: 224

1861
Henry Spencer abt 1824 Coaley, Gloucestershire, England Head Frocester, Gloucestershire
Caroline Spencer abt 1823 Cambridgeshire, Gloucestershire, England Wife Frocester, Gloucestershire
Andrew Spencer abt 1849 Frocester, Gloucestershire, England Son Frocester, Gloucestershire
Marina Spencer abt 1851 Frocester, Gloucestershire, England Daughter Frocester, Gloucestershire
Charles Spencer abt 1853 Frocester, Gloucestershire, England Son Frocester, Gloucestershire
Eliza Spencer bt 1858 Frocester, Gloucestershire, England Daughter Frocester, Gloucestershire
Alfred J Spencer abt 1860 Frocester, Gloucestershire, England Son Frocester, Gloucestershire
Alfred Spencer abt 1836 Coaley, Gloucestershire, England Nephew Frocester, Gloucestershire

1871 Yorkley
Charles Spencer abt 1855 Froster, Gloucestershire, England Boarder Newland, Gloucestershire

Year: 1875
Month: Nov
Day: 15
Grooms_Surname: SPENCER
Grooms_Forenames: Charles
Grooms_Age: 22
Groom_Condition: Bachelor
Grooms_Occupation: Collier
Grooms_Residence: Lydbrook
Grooms_Fathers_Surname: SPENCER
Grooms_Fathers_Forenames: Henry
Grooms_Fathers_Occupation: Labourer
Brides_Surname: MATTHEWS
Brides_Forenames: Amelia
Brides_Age: 18
Brides_Condition: Spinster
Brides_Occupation:
Brides_Residence: Lydbrook
Brides_Fathers_Surname: MATTHEWS
Brides_Fathers_Forenames: William
Brides_Fathers_Occupation: Collier
Licence_or_Banns: Banns
Date_of_Banns:
Signature_or_Mark: both sign
Witness_1: Joseph Jordan
Witness_2: Catherine Ellen [illegible]
Other_Witnesses:
Officiating_Minister: Henry T Hoitt
Event: Marriage
Memoranda:
Notes:
Register_Reference: P208 IN 1/5
Page_Number: 50
Parish_Chapel: Lydbrook

1881
Henry Belmes abt 1856 Gloucestershire, England Head Allhallows, Cumberland
Amelia Belmes abt 1858 Gloucestershire, England Wife Allhallows, Cumberland
William H. Belmes abt 1877 Gloucestershire, England Son Allhallows, Cumberland
James A. Belmes abt 1879 Blind Crake, Cumberland, England Son Allhallows, Cumberland

1891
Henry Helmes abt 1859 Froster, Gloucestershire, England Head Burtholme, Cumberland
Amelia Helmes abt 1861 Lydlesork, Gloucestershire, England Wife Burtholme, Cumberland
William Helmes abt 1879 Lydlesork, Gloucestershire, England Son Burtholme, Cumberland
James Helmes abt 1881 Blinderake, Cumberland, England Son Burtholme, Cumberland
Wallace Helmes abt 1883 Redmour, Cumberland, England Son Burtholme, Cumberland
Elizabeth A Helmes abt 1885 Lanercost, Cumberland, England Daughter Burtholme, Cumberland
Mary J Helmes abt 1887 Lanercost, Cumberland, England Daughter Burtholme, Cumberland
Robert A Helmes abt 1889 Lanercost, Cumberland, England Son Burtholme, Cumberland

1901
Henry Nelmes abt 1855 Feroster, Gloucestershire, England Head Ganthorpe, Yorkshire
Amelia Nelmes abt 1863 Lydbroock, Gloucestershire, England Wife Ganthorpe, Yorkshire
Wallace Nelmes abt 1883 Redmain, Cumberland, England Son Ganthorpe, Yorkshire
Mary Nelmes abt 1888 Lanercost, Cumberland, England Daughter Ganthorpe, Yorkshire
Arthur Nelmes abt 1890 Lanercost, Cumberland, England Son Ganthorpe, Yorkshire
Gertrude Nelmes abt 1893 Lanercost, Cumberland, England Daughter Ganthorpe, Yorkshire
Cecelia Nelmes abt 1896 Coneythorpe, Yorkshire, England Daughter Ganthorpe, Yorkshire
Gilbert Nelmes abt 1897 Coneythorpe, Yorkshire, England Son Ganthorpe, Yorkshire

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Ἀριστοτέλης A Gloster & Hereford Boy in the Forest of Dean ><((((*>

Year: 1878
Month: Feb
Day: 26
Parents_Surname: SPENCER
Child_Forenames: William Henry
Fathers_Forenames: Charles
Mothers_Forenames: Amelia
Mothers_Surname:
Residence: Astonbridge
Occupation: Collier
Officiating_Minister: John Evans
Event: Baptism
Memoranda: P
Notes: Entry No. 134
Register_Reference: D2598 3/4
Page_Number: 0
Parish_Chapel: East Dean Methodist Circuit

strong suspicion this is him in Lincolnshire

Name: William Henry Nelmes
Name: Lucretia Austin
Year of Registration: 1899
Quarter of Registration: Oct-Nov-Dec
District: Glanford Brigg
County: Lincolnshire
Volume: 7a
Page: 1496

1901
William H Nelmes abt 1879 Cumberland, England Head Ashby, Lincolnshire
Lucretia Nelmes abt 1881 Appleby, Lincolnshire, England Wife Ashby, Lincolnshire
William A Nelmes abt 1900 Ashby, Lincolnshire, England Son Ashby, Lincolnshire

1911
NELMES WILLIAM HENRY M 1879 32 Glanford Brigg Lincolnshire
NELMES LUCRETIA F 1881 30 Glanford Brigg Lincolnshire
NELMES MURIEL MATILDA F 1910 5 MONTHS Glanford Brigg Lincolnshire
NELMES RONALD M 1904 7 Glanford Brigg Lincolnshire
NELMES WILLIAM AUSTIN M 1901 10 Glanford Brigg Lincolnshire

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Ἀριστοτέλης A Gloster & Hereford Boy in the Forest of Dean ><((((*>

Thankyou again slowhands for all your research. My ancestor is probably the Charles Spencer born in Frocester as he married an Amelia Matthews who was my great geat grand mother. William Henry Spencer/Nelmes was my great grandfather who married in North Lincolnshire, where my family still live. I am still intrigued as to why Charles Spencer may have changed his name when he left the forest in about 1878/9. We may never know! Chrisp.

Thankyou twyver, I shall certainly follow up your lead, will see what turns up Chrisp

You may never know...

sometimes by tracking other relatives - parents or siblings - you may pick up a hint as to what caused the change. I have seen a parent remarrying and at the next census children taking other names - 2 + 2 = ? !!

1871 Coalpitts Tunstone (?) nr St Pierre Chepstow
Henry Spencer 49
Caroline Spencer 48
Andrew Spencer 20
James Spencer 11
Albert Spencer 9
Ann Spencer 6

1881
Henry Spencer abt 1819 Coaley, Gloucestershire, England Head Woolaston, Gloucestershire
Caroline Spencer abt 1819 Cam, Gloucestershire, England Wife Woolaston, Gloucestershire
James Spencer abt 1860 Frocester, Gloucestershire, England Son Woolaston, Gloucestershire
Elizabeth Stanley abt 1851 Frocester, Gloucestershire, England Daughter Woolaston, Gloucestershire
Emily Stanley abt 1877 Bristol, Gloucestershire, England Granddaughter Woolaston, Gloucestershire

Year: 1881
Month: Jul
Day: 14
Surname: SPENCER
Forenames: Henry
Residence: Woolaston
Age_at_death: 62
Officiating_Minister: Wm Somerset rector
Event: Burial
Cause_of_death:
Memoranda:
Notes:
Register_Reference: P376 IN 1/18
Page_No: 37
Parish_Chapel: Woolaston

What happens to Caroline ?

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Ἀριστοτέλης A Gloster & Hereford Boy in the Forest of Dean ><((((*>