My g.g.grandmother was Hannah TURNER (b.1832 Hereford Walford) who married James BRAWN (b.1835 Hereford St Johns) in Dec 1861 @ St Martin, Hereford.

James BRAWN was the son of Daniel BRAWN (b.1805 Sandhurst)and Mary JONES (b.abt.1797 Hereford Walford). Mary was a school mistress whilst Daniel was a gardener.

Hannah TURNER was, I believe, the daughter of James TURNER and Mary HANDLEY who married @ Sutton St Nicholas, Hereford around 1817. If I'm correct, they had other children i.e. Thomas b. 1825, Harriet b. 1829 then Hannah (my g.g.gran)in 1832.

I would love to have contact with any of their descendents still down there in Hereford areas to swap famhist information.

Between 1871 (after the census take) and 1873 James & Hannah BRAWN moved the family up to Woolton, Liverpool (though it is shown as Prescot in some documents) and the Liverpool side of the family grew from there!

My mother was directly descended from the Brawn/Turner side and the family are spread between Liverpool and Cheshire.

I would also appreciate any information/confirmation that I have the correct marriage details for Hannah TURNER'S parents as all I am certain of is that her father was James TURNER and his occupation of 'carpenter'.

IGI Batch Numbers for Herefordshire/Wellington

Children of James and Elizabeth YOUNG

Anne : 28 October 1821
Thomas : 4 July 1824
Elizabeth : 10 September 1826
Harriet : 12 October 1828
Joseph : 8 January 1831
Hannah: 16 March 1823

1871 Census, Herefordshire, District 5, Page 52
White Horse Lane

James BRAWN, age 35 - born Hereford
Hannah - age 37 - born Hereford, Wellington
Mary A - age 7, born Monmouthshire, Mutherne
Elizabeth - age 5, ditto

Daniel BRAWN - Father in Law age 65, (Dependant on Son) born Glos. Sandhurst

1841 Census, Herefordshire, Wellington, District 12, Page 3
St John

James TURNER - age 45, Carpenter, born in County
Elizabeth - 45 - biC
Thomas - 16 - ditto **
Harriet - 12 - ditto
Joseph - 10 - ditto *
Hannah - 7 - ditto ***

1851 Census, Lugwardine, District 5b, Page 11
Black Hole Lane

Hannah TURNER is a Domestic Servant to John MORRIS - age 75 and unmarried, who is an Aunnitant and Farming 8 acres of land.

1851 Census, Herefordshire, District 7, Page 5
Bushfields

* Joseph TURNER, Journeyman Carpenter, unmarried, born Wellington

1851 Census, Warwickshire, Birmingham St Thomas
District 24, Page 36
Little Hill Street

**Thomas TURNER - 26 - Carpenter, born Hereford, Wellington
Ann - 27 - born Hereford, Birch
James - 2 - born Wellington
George - 1 month, born Warws. Birmingham
James PREECE age 24, Visitor, Carpenter, born Hereford, Wellington

On the 1861 Census, for Herefordshire, Elizabeth TURNER (mother-in-law - Wid age 65 born Wellington) is living with her daughter Harriet and husband James GREGG, plus their children, Eliza age 6 and Sarah age 3

Hi M P Griffiths, thank you very much for all that work and information. This is my family - Hannah Turner being my g.g.grandmother. She married James Brawn in late 1861 in Herefordshire, though the census records for 1861 show them as living as man and wife at Wyelands Lodge, Mutherne, Mons where James was gardener for the estate. At end of 1861 they crossed back into Herefordshire to get married then went back to Wyelands Lodge to settle down to married life. This is where their two daughters, Mary Ann Brawn b. 1863 (my g.gran) and her sister Elizabeth Brawn b.1865 were both born. The girls were baptised at St Tewdric Church in nearby Pwlmeyric and I have the baptism records from the church parish records(via internet). By 1871 the family had moved back to Herefordshire (I have no idea why my g.g.grandparents James & Hannah Brawn gave up the job and house in Wyelands, Mutherne) and it wasn't long before they journeyed up north to Woolton, Liverpool (Prescot)where they settled for some years.

Interesting to see, from your research notes, that both sons followed their father into the carpentry profession.

From 1871 I've completely lost Elizabeth as she does not appear to show up anywhere in England or Wales after that so I think she might have died young.

I'm hoping that some descendents of both James and Elizabeth TURNER (I have no idea of her maiden name!) will contact me to swap information.

Once again, many thanks for your kind help.

Prior note on Wyelands ( not its lodge) http://www.forum.forest-of-dean.net/index.php?id=18267

MATHERNE, Monmouthshire - Extract from National Gazetteer, 1868

[Description(s) from The National Gazetteer (1868)]

"MATHERNE, a parish in the upper division of the hundred of Caldicott, county Monmouth, 2 miles S. of Chepstow, its post town, and 14 from Newport. It is situated on Matherne Pill, at which place the river Wye joins the Severn. A house called Monks Court is partly of the 15th century, and was inhabited by the bishops of Llandaff until 1706, but it is now converted into a farmhouse.

The living is a vicarage* in the diocese of Llandaff, value £352, in the patronage of the dean and chapter. The church, dedicated to St. Theodoric, is an ancient structure. The interior contains a tablet to the martyr Theodoric, on which is an inscription by Bishop Godwin. The parochial charities produce about £26 per annum, of which £13 goes to Pratt's school."

[Description(s) from The National Gazetteer of Great Britain and Ireland (1868)

MATHERN is a parish, bounded on the south by the Bristol Channel and the road from Chepstow to Newport. The Meurig, or the Mounton brook, runs through the parish and falls into the Channel at St. Pierre Pill: it is 2¼ miles south-southwest from Chepstow station on the Great Western railway, in the Souihern division of the county, hundred of Caldicot, petty sessional division, union and county court district of Chepstow, rural deanery of Chepstow, archdeaconry of Monmouth and diocese of Llandaff.

Mathern is said to have derived its name from "Merthyr Tewdric" - the martyrdom of St. Tewdric, King of Glamorgan, who died here in the 6th century from the effects of a wound received in battle against the Saxons, and who was afterwards esteemed a saint and martyr; his remains having been interred at this place a church was erected on the spot and dedicated in his honour, and in the chancel is a monument recording these facts.

The church of St. Tewdric or Theodovic is a building of stone partly of the Early English period, with extensive additions in the Perpendicular style, consisting of chancel, nave, aisles, south porch and a very fine and lofty embattled tower with angle turret and pinnacles, built in the last quarter of the 15th century by John Marshall, bishop of Llandaff, and containing 6 bells, all cast by Evans of Chepstow in 1765.

Name: Elizabeth Brawn
Year of Registration: 1865
Quarter of Registration: Oct-Nov-Dec
District: Chepstow
County: Gloucestershire, Monmouthshire
Volume: 11a
Page: 5

1871 Hereford
James Brawn 35
Hannah Brawn 37
Marya Brawn 7
Elizabeth Brawn 5
Daniel Brawn 65

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Ἀριστοτέλης A Gloster & Hereford Boy in the Forest of Dean ><((((*>