Esme Sheila Grail (General)

by petrina @, Tuesday, November 10, 2009, 21:23 (5567 days ago)

I am trying to prove if Esme Sheila Grail b c1918, who departed from Kure,Japan,on the Ship Strathaver,arrival at Southampton 9 October 1946. With her is Arthur J Grail b 1944. Their proposed address is Rosemary Lane, Stroat, nr Chepstow, the Grail family home. Is Esme the same Esme Sheila Grail b12 February 1911 d May 1984 Forest of Dean. Is she a Miss or Mrs? Somebody has an Esme on their tree married to John F Grail b 6 July 1920 d December 1987. I have not been able to find a Birth for Esme Grail or marriage of an Esme to a Grail.How am I going to prove where Esme fits into the Grail family.Maybe someone can give me a clue where to look next.

Esme Sheila Grail

by pamclark @, Wednesday, November 11, 2009, 16:31 (5566 days ago) @ petrina

Do you have parents for John F. Grail born 1920?
I have found a John F. Grail b Sep 1/4 1920 Chepstow with mother name Reeks.

I looked for a marriage and found Chepstow Sept 1/4 1910 Samuel Grail to Margaret E. Reeks.

1911 census shows at Wibden Lodge, Tidenham Samuel Grail b 1876 with wife Elizabeth b 1887 married 1 year with a son John aged 6 months.

Have traced birth for this John in Dec 1/4 1910 Chepstow but can find no trace of a death betwen 1911 and 1920 when John F. Grail's birth is reg. is Samuel the father of both Johns?
The mystery deepens!

Esme Sheila Grail

by petrina @, Wednesday, November 11, 2009, 20:36 (5566 days ago) @ pamclark

No Samuel is not the father of both John's. John Grail b 1910 parents are Samuel Grail & Margaret Elizabeth Reeks who married 1910. John F Grail b 6 July 1920 d Dec 1987 parents are Christopher Grail & Mary J Reeks who married 1917. I think I might have to get death certificate for Esme Sheila Grail,then may find a maiden name.I have also found a marriage date for Arthur J Grail,which might give a fathers name

Esme Sheila Grail

by rookancestrybest @, United Kingdom, Wednesday, November 11, 2009, 21:04 (5566 days ago) @ petrina

Don't rule out the possibility that they could be born and/or married in one of the British Colonies, Ireland or in another country (in this case Japan). It would be worth checking whether there are any army or navy connections, many people had relatives living in India for more than one generation; religious connections (e.g. were they missionaries working and living abroad?); did they work for some trading company or shipping line? Just suggestions but one branch of my family has connections with lots of countries abroad and it is because they were living abroad and married there for most of the reasons stated.

Esme Sheila GRAIL

by slowhands @, proud of his ancient Dean Forest roots, Thursday, November 12, 2009, 13:14 (5565 days ago) @ petrina

It is possible

Name: Esme Sheila Grail
Birth Date: 12 Feb 1911
Death Registration Month/Year: May 1984
Age at death (estimated): 73
Registration district: Forest of Dean
Inferred County: Gloucestershire
Volume: 22
Page: 1790

lets assume Arthur J was born
in the Far East - during the second world war - Singapore fell to Japan in 1942 (?)
Perhaps Esme was a Forces / Missionary Nurse at the time ??


who departed from Kure,Japan,on the Ship Strathaver,arrival at Southampton 9 October 1946.

The Commonwealth Occupation Force had taken over the Kure naval base from about 1946 - I suspect this became a repatriation post.

Was the Strathnaver being used to carry troops / POW's back from Japan ? I think there was a Strathnaver from the P&O Line (one of the UK- Australia White Sisters) that became a Troopship.
http://www.poships.co.uk/Strathnaver%20History.html
http://www.ozhoo.com.au/~strathsisters/strathnaver/index.htm
STRATHNAVER 1931
The STRATHNAVER was a 22,270 gross ton ship, length 638.6ft x beam 80.2ft (194,64m x 24,43m), three funnels, two masts, twin screw and a speed of 21 knots. There was accommodation for 500-1st and 670-tourist class passengers. Built by Vickers-Armstrong, Barrow-in-Furness, she was launched for the Peninsular & Oriental Steam Navigation Co (P & O Line) on 5th Feb.1931. Her maiden voyage started on 2nd Oct.1931 when she left London for Bombay, Colombo, Melbourne and Sydney and she continued on this service until requisitioned as a troopship in 1939. Used for transporting ANZAC troops to Suez, and later at the troop landings at Oran and Algiers in 1942. In May and June 1943 she was stationed in the Red Sea and used as a training ship for the Italian landings and in 1944 took part in the Anzio landing. After the war she was used for the repatriation of troops and in 1948-9 was reconditioned at Belfast, where her two dummy funnels were removed. She resumed the London - Australia service on 5th Jan.1950, and in 1954 was refitted to carry 1,252 single class passengers. The same year the Bombay call was omitted from her schedule. Her last voyage to Australia started on 7th Dec.1961 and in April 1962 she was sold to Shun Fung Ironworks, Hong Kong for breaking up. [Merchant Fleets by Duncan Haws, vol.1, P & O, Orient and Blue Anchor Lines]

possible match for Arthur Grail in
GRO ARMY BIRTH INDICES (1881 to 1965) 1941 - 1945 GOULD to GRINSTED

Name: Arthur J Grail
Spouse : Maureen P James
Date of Registration: Jul-Aug-Sep 1967
Registration district: Forest of Dean
Registration county (inferred): Gloucestershire
Volume Number: 7b
Page Number: 1105

--
Ἀριστοτέλης A Gloster & Hereford Boy in the Forest of Dean ><((((*>

Esme Sheila GRAIL

by petrina @, Thursday, November 12, 2009, 22:13 (5565 days ago) @ slowhands

Thank you very much for your very interesting info. I will look up the Gro Army Births & marriages, I hadn't thought of them. I had found Arthur Grail's marriage but didn't say as it was not long ago. Think I will also send for Esme's death certificate. Thank you all for your help

Esme Sheila GRAIL

by petrina @, Tuesday, November 24, 2009, 22:08 (5553 days ago) @ petrina

Just to say I have sorted out the mystery of Esme Sheila Grail. I sent for her death certificate. It says Esme's maiden name is Hutton born 1911 Rangoon, Burma. First married to a Mr Hanks, second marriage to John F Grail,which could have been overseas at time of W W 2. Can anyone please tell me how to find overseas marriages, its not on Forces marriages. I have also found a daughter born 3 years after Esme came to Stroat. Thank you again for your help
Petrina

John Frederick GRAIL 1920 - 1987

by slowhands @, proud of his ancient Dean Forest roots, Tuesday, November 24, 2009, 23:02 (5552 days ago) @ petrina

Name: John F Grail
Mother's Maiden Surname: Reeks
Date of Registration: Jul Aug Sep 1920
Registration district: Chepstow
Registration county: Wales
Volume Number: 11a
Page Number: 24

Name: John Frederick Grail
Birth Date: 6 Jul 1920
Death Registration Month/Year: Dec 1987
Age at death (estimated): 67
Registration district: Forest of Dean
Inferred County: Gloucestershire
Volume: 22
Page: 1856


other siblings :-
Name: Christopher A Grail
Mother's Maiden Surname: Reeks
Date of Registration: Apr May Jun 1919
Registration district: Chepstow
Registration county: Wales
Volume Number: 11a
Page Number: 16


George E Grail Oct Nov Dec 1926 Chepstow Wales
Ronald F Grail Jul Aug Sep 1930 Chepstow Wales
Reginald S Grail Oct Nov Dec 1932 Chepstow Wales
Christina E Grail Oct Nov Dec 1941 F of Dean Gloucestershire, Shropshire, Herefordshire

leading me to question this transcription

Name: Christopher Grail
Spouse : Reens / Mary J Reene
Date of Registration: Jan-Feb-Mar 1917
Registration district: Chepstow
Registration county (inferred): Monmouthshire
Volume Number: 11a
Page Number: 19


Woolaston / Alvington REEKS family ?

s/o Frederick & Elizabeth
1901 Christopher Grail abt 1886 Tidenham, Gloucestershire, England Son Tidenham, Gloucestershire

Year: 1884
Month: Jun
Day: 1
Parents_Surname: GRAIL
Child_Forenames: Christopher
Fathers_Forenames: Frederic
Mothers_Forenames: Elizabeth
Mothers_Surname:
Residence: Stroat
Occupation: Labourer
Officiating_Minister: Fielding Palmer
Event: Baptism
Memoranda:
Notes:
Register_Reference: P333/1 IN 1/5
Page_Number: 56
Parish_Chapel: Tidenham

<><><><><>

Name: Rosemary P Grail
Mother's Maiden Surname: Hutton
Date of Registration: Jan Feb Mar 1949
Registration district: F of Dean
Registration county: Gloucestershire
Volume Number: 7b
Page Number: 652

--
Ἀριστοτέλης A Gloster & Hereford Boy in the Forest of Dean ><((((*>

John Frederick GRAIL 1920 - 1987

by petrina @, Wednesday, November 25, 2009, 21:10 (5552 days ago) @ slowhands

Thank you, Rosemary is the other child that I had found . Thank you again for all your help.Petrina

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