Elsie & Herbert Brown.

I’ve just discovered that my wife’s Aunt & Uncle, Bessie (Betty) Jones(1909-1996) & Stanley Jones (1905-1992) were married to brother & sister. Bessie(Betty) was married to Herbert C Brown (1906 – 1982?) & Stanley was married to Elsie Murial Brown (1908-1992). They were all married at The Parish Church Viney Hill, Stanley in 1936 & Bessie (Betty) 1932.
Elsie & Herbert’s father was down as William Brown deceased. I got the brother & sister info from Herbert’s funeral report in the paper, which I will scan.
My problem is I’m not certain of their birth place, also I can’t find them in the 1911 census so I could identify their parents & siblings.
According to the news clipping a Mr & Mrs F Dovey was the brother in law & sister of Herbert, also a Mr B Dovey was the nephew. I can’t find a marriage between Dovey & Brown that might fit or the birth of B Dovey with a mother maiden name of Brown.
If anyone could shed some light on this for me I would be grateful.

One piece of luck I have had from a previous posting. I found the death of my wife’s uncle Ewart Frank Jones he died Chesterfield in 1979, same year as her mother.
Regards
Jim

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possibles

Name: Elsie Muriel Brown
Year of Registration: 1908
Quarter of Registration: Jul-Aug-Sep
District: Pontypridd
County: Glamorgan, Mid Glamorgan
Volume: 11a
Page: 565

Name: Herbert Brown
Year of Registration: 1907
Quarter of Registration: Apr-May-Jun
District: Pontypridd
County: Glamorgan, Mid Glamorgan
Volume: 11a
Page: 536

Name: Herbert Brown
Birth Date: 24 Apr 1907
Death Registration Month/Year: 1982
Registration district: Gloucester
Inferred County: Gloucestershire
Volume: 22
Page: 1750

<><><><><> a couple of others discarded

Name: Herbert Charles Brown
Year of Registration: 1907
Quarter of Registration: Jul-Aug-Sep
District: Gloucester (1837-1937)
County: Gloucestershire
Volume: 6a
Page: 301
1911
BROWN ALFRED M 1852 59 Gloucester Gloucestershire
BROWN ALICE F 1865 46 Gloucester Gloucestershire
BROWN BEATRICE ANNIE F 1888 23 Gloucester Gloucestershire
BROWN HELEN FRANCIS F 1894 17 Gloucester Gloucestershire
BROWN HERBERT CHARLES M 1908 3 Gloucester Gloucestershire
BROWN HERBERT CHARLES M 1886 25 Gloucester Gloucestershire
BROWN KATHLEEN MARY F 1896 15 Gloucester Gloucestershire
BROWN WILLIAM ALFRED M 1895 16 Gloucester Gloucestershire
BROWN HERBERT CHARLES M 1908 3 Gloucester Gloucestershire

<><><><

Name: Herbert Clifford Brown
Year of Registration: 1905
Quarter of Registration: Oct-Nov-Dec
District: Cardiff (1837-1974)
County: Glamorgan, Monmouthshire
Volume: 11a
Page: 387

1911
BROWN STEPHEN M 1852 59 Cardiff Glamorganshire
BROWN JULIA S F 1865 46 Cardiff Glamorganshire
BROWN HERBERT CLIFFORD M 1906 5 Cardiff Glamorganshire

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Ἀριστοτέλης A Gloster & Hereford Boy in the Forest of Dean ><((((*>

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possible William - in the Pontypridd area prior to 1909

1881
James Brown abt 1850 Pembridge, Hereford, England Head Pembridge, Herefordshire
Ellen Brown abt 1849 Beguildy, Radnorshire, Wales Wife Pembridge, Herefordshire
William Brown abt 1876 Pembridge, Hereford, England Son Pembridge, Herefordshire
John Brown abt 1879 Lyonshall, Hereford, England Son Pembridge, Herefordshire

1891
William Brown abt 1877 Pembridge, Herefordshire, England Servant Kinnersley, Herefordshire

1901
William E Brown abt 1877 Pembridge, Herefordshire, England Boarder Pontypridd, Glamorgan Coal Miner [not Mason]

Name: William Edward Brown
Spouse :Elizabeth Jenkins or Mary Powell
Year of Registration: 1902
Quarter of Registration: Apr-May-Jun
District: Pontypridd
County: Glamorgan, Mid Glamorgan
Volume: 11a
Page: 751

Name: William Edward Brown
Estimated birth year: abt 1876
Year of Registration: 1909
Quarter of Registration: Apr-May-Jun
Age at Death: 33
District: Pontypridd
County: Glamorgan, Mid Glamorgan
Volume: 11a
Page: 277

This might mean that mother remarries and tracking children in 1911 census is harder !

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Ἀριστοτέλης A Gloster & Hereford Boy in the Forest of Dean ><((((*>

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Name: Lydia Mary A Beddis
Name: William Brown
Year of Registration: 1898
Quarter of Registration: Jul-Aug-Sep
District: Monmouth (1837-1939)
County: Gloucestershire, Herefordshire, Monmouthshire
Volume: 11a
Page: 69

1901 Yorkley
George Beddis abt 1856 West Dean, Gloucestershire, England Head West Dean, Monmouthshire
Mary Beddis abt 1861 London, England Wife West Dean, Monmouthshire
George Beddis abt 1883 West Dean, Gloucestershire, England Son West Dean, Monmouthshire
Ida Beddis abt 1891 West Dean, Gloucestershire, England Daughter West Dean, Monmouthshire
Alice Beddis abt 1896 West Dean, Gloucestershire, England Daughter West Dean, Monmouthshire
William Brown abt 1876 Ellwood; West Dean, Gloucestershire, England Son-in-law West Dean, Monmouthshire Mason
Lydia M A Brown abt 1879 West Dean, Gloucestershire, England Daughter West Dean, Monmouthshire

Name: Elsie Muriel Brown
Year of Registration: 1908
Quarter of Registration: Jul-Aug-Sep
District: Pontypridd
County: Glamorgan, Mid Glamorgan
Volume: 11a
Page: 565

Name: Herbert Brown
Year of Registration: 1907
Quarter of Registration: Apr-May-Jun
District: Pontypridd
County: Glamorgan, Mid Glamorgan
Volume: 11a
Page: 536

1911
BROWN LYDIA MARY ANN F 1879 32 Pontypridd Glamorganshire
BEDDIS ALICE F 1895 16 Pontypridd Glamorganshire

1911 ( both born Pontypridd)
BROWN GEORGE M 1859 52 Fulham London
BROWN HERBERT M 1905 6 Fulham London

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so summarising so far :-

Year: 1854
Month: Feb
Day: 26
Parents_Surname: BEDDIS
Child_Forenames: George Martin
Fathers_Forenames: William
Mothers_Forenames: Harriet
Mothers_Surname:
Residence: Oldcroft
Occupation: Collier
Officiating_Minister: W Malpas Assistant Curate
Event: Baptism
Memoranda: son of
Notes: Father's Christian name entered as George then crossed out
Register_Reference: P245 IN 1/11
Page_Number: 27
Parish_Chapel: Parkend

1861
William Beddis abt 1814 Lydney, Gloucestershire, England Head West Dean, Gloucestershire
Harriet Beddis abt 1818 West Dean, Gloucestershire, England Wife West Dean, Gloucestershire
Lydia Beddis abt 1850 West Dean, Gloucestershire, England Daughter West Dean, Gloucestershire
Charles Beddis abt 1852 West Dean, Gloucestershire, England Son West Dean, Gloucestershire
George Martin Beddis abt 1854 West Dean, Gloucestershire, England Son West Dean, Gloucestershire
Frank Beddis abt 1858 West Dean, Gloucestershire, England Son West Dean, Gloucestershire
Harriet Emily Beddis abt 1861 West Dean, Gloucestershire, England Daughter West Dean, Gloucestershire

Name: Frank Beddis
Year of Registration: 1875
Quarter of Registration: Oct-Nov-Dec
District: Monmouth (1837-1939)
County: Gloucestershire, Herefordshire, Monmouthshire
Volume: 11a
Page: 31

Name: Lydia Mary A Beddis
Year of Registration: 1878
Quarter of Registration: Jul-Aug-Sep
District: Monmouth (1837-1939)
County: Gloucestershire, Herefordshire, Monmouthshire
Volume: 11a
Page: 31

1881
George Beddis abt 1854 West Dean, Gloucestershire, England Head West Dean, Gloucestershire
Mary Bird abt 1854 London, London, Middlesex, England Brother (Head) (Head) West Dean, Gloucestershire
Frank Bird abt 1877 West Dean, Gloucestershire, England Son West Dean, Gloucestershire
Lydia Bird abt 1879 West Dean, Gloucestershire, England Daughter West Dean, Gloucestershire

1891
George Beddis abt 1854 West Dean, Gloucestershire, England Head West Dean, Gloucestershire
Mary Beddis abt 1853 Hammersmith, London, England Wife West Dean, Gloucestershire
Frank Beddis abt 1877 West Dean, Gloucestershire, England Son West Dean, Gloucestershire
Julia Beddis abt 1879 West Dean, Gloucestershire, England Daughter West Dean, Gloucestershire
George Beddis abt 1885 West Dean, Gloucestershire, England Son West Dean, Gloucestershire
Emily Beddis abt 1888 West Dean, Gloucestershire, England Daughter West Dean, Gloucestershire
Ida Beddis abt 1890 West Dean, Gloucestershire, England Daughter West Dean, Gloucestershire
Mary Perry abt 1813 Lambeth, London, England Mother-in-law West Dean, Gloucestershire

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Thank you for your replies, Slowhands.I think I've opened a can of worms with Elsie & Herbert.As you see in the 1891 census George Beddis is married to Mary (born London)but in the 1881 census George is unmarried and there is no sign of Lydia Beddis.But,next door in 1881 there is a Mary Bird(London)with 2 children Lydia & Frank.It states Mary is married. To add to the confusion in 1891 there is Mary Perry born London, down as George's mother in law.So I've got Lydia with the surnames Beddis,Brown & Kear and now maybe Bird.Can't at the moment find a George/Mary marriage or a Mary Bird/Perry marriage.
I might be on the wrong track with all of this but if anyone has any ideas I would be gtateful.

Jim

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I might be on the wrong track with all of this but if anyone has any ideas I would be gtateful.

I think we are on the right track !

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Ἀριστοτέλης A Gloster & Hereford Boy in the Forest of Dean ><((((*>

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Year: 1876
Month: Jul
Day: 12
Parents_Surname: BROWN
Child_Forenames: William
Fathers_Forenames: James
Mothers_Forenames: Rhoda
Mothers_Surname:
Residence: Marsh Lane
Occupation: Mason
Officiating_Minister: H L Perry Vicar
Event: Baptism
Memoranda:
Notes:
Register_Reference: P88 IN 1/2
Page_Number: 58
Parish_Chapel: Clearwell

1881
James Brown abt 1848 Trelleck, Monmouth, Wales Head Chepstow St Arvans, Monmouthshire
Rhoda Brown abt 1857 Newland, Gloucestershire, England Wife Chepstow St Arvans, Monmouthshire
William Brown abt 1877 Newland, Gloucestershire, England Son Chepstow St Arvans, Monmouthshire
Albert Brown abt 1880 Newland, Gloucestershire, England Son Chepstow St Arvans, Monmouthshire
Kate Brown St Arvans, Monmouth, Wales Daughter Chepstow St Arvans,

1891
James Brown abt 1851 Tintern Abby, Gloucestershire, England Head West Dean, Gloucestershire
Rhoda Brown abt 1855 Whitecroft, Gloucestershire, England Wife West Dean, Gloucestershire
William Brown abt 1876 Elwood, Gloucestershire, England Son West Dean, Gloucestershire
Albert Brown abt 1881 Elwood, Gloucestershire, England Son West Dean, Gloucestershire
Kate Brown abt 1882 St Arvans, Gloucestershire, England Daughter West Dean, Gloucestershire
Elizabeth Brown abt 1884 St Arvans, Gloucestershire, England Daughter West Dean, Gloucestershire
Paul Brown abt 1885 St Arvans, Gloucestershire, England Son West Dean, Gloucestershire
Fanny Brown abt 1886 St Arvans, Gloucestershire, England Daughter West Dean, Gloucestershire
James Brown abt 1887 St Arvans, Gloucestershire, England Son West Dean, Gloucestershire
Sarah Brown abt 1888 St Briabels, Gloucestershire, England Daughter West Dean, Gloucestershire
Margret Brown abt 1890 Yorkley, Gloucestershire, England Daughter West Dean, Gloucestershire

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Ἀριστοτέλης A Gloster & Hereford Boy in the Forest of Dean ><((((*>

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Thank you for the replies,I'll see what I can come up with after a bit more searching.I am confused with the funeral report clipping, I think it may be wrong in respect of the sisters & brother in laws.I'm now not sure by reading it that Mr & Mrs F Dovey are brother in law and sister as it says'brother in law & sister and I know 100% that Mr & Mrs S Jones are that.It also has brother in laws & sisters underneath so I think it may be mixed up.I have to see if I can sort it out.
Jim

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Morning,
Now in touch with Elsie's daughter.Elsie & Herbert were born in Pontypridd.Their father died when they were very young, Elsie we think was about 2 yrs.The father was called William Brown,rumour has it that he was Scottish.How they ended up in the 'Forest' we don't know.The mothers name is not known at the moment.I found 2 possible William Brown's both died 1910 in Pontypridd.I can't find Elsie or Herbert in the 1911 census,so maybe on the move.Elsie & Herbert were both married in Viney Hill and their address was given as Oldcroft.
If anyone has info on their parents I would be grateful.

Jim
Topless in Cheltenham!.

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I have now found out their parents, thanks to Elsie's daughter.Both were born in Pontypridd to William Brown & Lydia Mary Ann Beddis.William died c1909,in the 1911 census Lydia is in Pontypridd.She is visiting her sister & brother, her children are not with her, Lydia married a William Kear in 1916 back in the 'Forest',she died 1961.I'm still trying to find the whereabouts of Elsie & Herbert in 1911,can anyone help, Please.
Jim

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Not found the siblings in the 1911 census yet. But I have another twist in the Brown search.William Brown's brother James Brown(c1887)is the granduncle of my niece's husband Tim!.

Jim

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Forest of Dean FHT Forum

Elsie & Herbert Brown. (General)

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