Looking for info on Esther/Hester Herbert, born c.1825, daughter of John Herbert and sarah Mason

John and Sarah marry Walford 2 april 1809

Son John buried 18 April 1831 aged 12 Ruardean
Dau Susannah buried 10 sept 1823 aged 4days Ruardean
Dau Berriana buried 1 sept 1822 aged 6wks Ruardean

Would John be the son of William and Hannah nee YEMM 27th April 1788 Ruardean

William and Hannah YEME marry 12 may 1782 Ruardean

Would this be her Mother Sarah in 1851 census ?

As transcribed

1851 Ruardean Hill
George Herbert abt 1822 East Dean, Gloucestershire, England Head East Dean Gloucestershire
Sophia Herbert abt 1824 East Dean, Gloucestershire, England Wife East Dean Gloucestershire
Susannah Herbert abt 1846 East Dean, Gloucestershire, England Daughter East Dean Gloucestershire
Tabitha Herbert abt 1849 East Dean, Gloucestershire, England Daughter East Dean Gloucestershire
Sarah Herbert abt 1789 Ruardean, Gloucestershire, England Mother East Dean Gloucestershire
Dennis Herbert abt 1838 East Dean, Gloucestershire, England Nephew East Dean Gloucestershire

Living next door to the HERBERT family in 1851:

1959 0103 074 Ruardeanhill WEBB John HD M 33 Coal Miner GLS East Dean
1959 0103 074 Ruardeanhill WEBB Esther WI M 25 - GLS East Dean
1959 0103 074 Ruardeanhill WEBB Esther DA U 5 Scholar GLS East Dean
1959 0103 074 Ruardeanhill WEBB Miles SO U 3 Scholar GLS East Dean
1959 0103 074 Ruardeanhill WEBB William SO U 1 - GLS East Dean

and from FreeBMD:
Marriages Jun 1845
Herbert Hester Monmouth 26 127
Webb John Monmouth 26 127

Mike

I think we have a reasonable match here ( for a WEBB in Coventry too) !

As transcribed

1851 Ruardean Hill
John Webb abt 1818 East Dean, Gloucestershire, England Head East Dean Gloucestershire
Esther Webb abt 1826 East Dean, Gloucestershire, England Wife East Dean Gloucestershire
Esther Webb abt 1846 East Dean, Gloucestershire, England Daughter East Dean Gloucestershire
Miles Webb abt 1846 East Dean, Gloucestershire, England Son East Dean Gloucestershire
William Webb abt 1850 East Dean, Gloucestershire, England Son East Dean Gloucestershire

1861 Brierley - East Slade Black Smith Shop ?
John Webb abt 1818 East Dean, Gloucestershire, England Head East Dean Gloucestershire
Ester Webb abt 1826 East Dean, Gloucestershire, England Wife East Dean Gloucestershire
Albert Webb abt 1860 East Dean, Gloucestershire, England Son East Dean Gloucestershire
Araham Webb abt 1854 East Dean, Gloucestershire, England Son East Dean Gloucestershire
Miles Webb abt 1848 East Dean, Gloucestershire, England Son East Dean Gloucestershire
Onelanda Webb abt 1857 East Dean, Gloucestershire, England Daughter East Dean Gloucestershire
William Webb abt 1850 East Dean, Gloucestershire, England Son East Dean Gloucestershire

1871 24 Harley Road (?) Cinderford
John Webb abt 1816 East Dean, Gloucestershire, England Head Flaxley Gloucestershire
Esther Webb abt 1826 East Dean, Gloucestershire, England Wife Flaxley Gloucestershire
Abraham Webb abt 1854 Cinderford, Gloucestershire, England Son Flaxley Gloucestershire
Albert Webb abt 1859 Cinderford, Gloucestershire, England Son Flaxley Gloucestershire
Leonard Webb abt 1870 Cinderford, Gloucestershire, England Son Flaxley Gloucestershire
Melinda Webb abt 1857 Cinderford, Gloucestershire, England Daughter Flaxley Gloucestershire
Priscilla Webb abt 1861 Cinderford, Gloucestershire, England Daughter Flaxley Gloucestershire

1881 High St, Cinderford, - East Dean, Gloucestershire, England
John Webbe abt 1818 Cinderford, Gloucestershire, England Head
Esther Webbe abt 1826 Cinderford, Gloucestershire, England Wife
Albert Webbe abt 1860 Cinderford, Gloucestershire, England Son
Leonard Webbe abt 1870 Cinderford, Gloucestershire, England Son

1891 Forest Road Cinderford
Leonard Webb abt 1870 Cinderford, Gloucestershire, England Head East Dean Gloucestershire
Esther Webb abt 1826 Brecrley, Gloucestershire, England Mother East Dean Gloucestershire

1901 Woodside Road Cinderford
Esther Webb abt 1826 Ruardean, Gloucestershire, England Head East Dean Gloucestershire

Name: Esther Webb
Birth Date: abt 1827
Year of Registration: 1903
Quarter of Registration: Apr-May-Jun
Age at death: 76
District: Westbury On Severn
County: Gloucestershire
Volume: 6a
Page: 162

Hi Michael. My difficulty is where to start. My main research is the Marfell family centred on the Forest of Dean, but spread worldwide, their links spread far and wide.
Esther Herbert is my 1st cousin 5 times removed, her father John Herbert is my 5 times great Uncle, her mother Sarah Mason is my 5th cousin 4 times removed.
Starting with John Herbert, he was baptised 27.4.1788 Ruardean - (all events Ruardean unless shown otherwise), died 1847, son of William Herbert who was baptised 29.9.1758 buried 25.11.1789 & Hannah Yemm baptised 1.8.1758 buried 29.12.1789. William & Hannah married 12,5.1782. William Herbert 1758 was the son of William Herbert & Margaret Wood. William 1758 had a sister Sarah who married a Richard Baldwin, they had 7 children including a son Moses who married Lucy Marfell, 17.4.1808 Abenhall (a lot of Ruardean marriages took place in Abenhall at this time as the vicar lived there)
Sarah Mason 1788 was one of the 8 children of George Mason & Mary Tippins, Mary Tippins baptised 1.12.1765 they married 7.11.1787. Sarah 1788 had a brother Thomas baptised 4.11.1804 who married a Tabitha Wilce, they had 6 children including Elizabeth Mason who married Benjamin Marfell, who is the subject of other forum discussion on this web site and for whom I have posted a picture. Mary Tippins 1765 was one of the 9 childen of William Tippins 1744 & Sarah Wilce 1745. Sarah Wilce 1745 was one of the 7 childen of Thomas Wilce baptised 26.1.1707 died 1773 & Susannah Marfell baptised 29.12.1706.
I didn't previously have the marriage details for John Herbert 2.4.1809 Walford, posted elsewhere on this string, I do know however that their first child Mary was baptised 31.10.1809 Mary Herbert 1809 married James Brain 13.4.1831 Abenhall he being baptised 3.9.1809 and they had 8 children including Enos Brain born 13.9.1838 Collafield - a report concering the murder of Enos in America, also his family portrait is to be found on this incredibly useful web site.
I didn't previously have details of Esther's marriage to John Webb or their childen, thanks to the person who submitted that.
As you can possibly perceive from this message, the detail here is a very small part of the information available, if you wish to email me separately, I can provide much more. You may in turn be able to help me with Herberts.
My G G G Grandfather Cornelius Marfell 1779 married a Rosanna Herbert on 24.7.1811 she born 1789 and buried 26.10.1817. He then married a Tamar Herbert baptised 10.8.1792 daughter of John Herbert & Nancy Morgan John & Nancy married 18.12.1776 Oxenhall and had 8 children. I have no details for Rosanna Herbert 1789 and would appreciate any information.

Hello Jim,
First of all many, many thanks for all the info that you sent. It has filled quite a few gaps in my family tree. The only info I had of the Herbert family was that Hester herbert married my Gt,Gt,Grandfather, John Webb in 1845 and that her father's name was John Herbert. I found out recently that John Herbert was married to Sarah Mason. That was all I knew about the Herberts. Then I got your message, what can I say. It's a mine of information. I am sorry I cannot offer much information in return other than details of Hester and John Webb's family. If you would like any info on Hester's branch of the family, let me know, I'll let yo have it with pleasure. If it is of any interest to you I can send you a copy of their marriage certificate.
By the way Jim, If you are a distant cousin of my Gt.Gt.Grandmother, then somewhere along the line you and I are related. Just a thought. Hope to hear from you soon.
all the best,
Michael.

Hello again Slowhands,
Many thanks for your message,once again you have come up with the goods. Hester Herbert married my Gt. Gt. Grandfather, John Webb in 1845. I knew her father's name was John, from her marriage cerificate, but that was all I knew about the Herberts. So once again Thank you for taking the time to contact me.
All the best,
Michael.

Hello Michael,
Thank you for taking the time to send your message. It has answered a couple of questions and it has also confirmed one or two things of which I weren't certain. Once again, many thanks.
all the best,
Michael.

1841
HO 107 / 364 /7 folio 38
B rierly

John HERBERT 60 Ag Lab
Sarah 60
George 20
Hester 14
Hannah 11
Dennis 3

All born in county

I have traced this Herbert family back to Thomas Herbert (d. 1697) of Ruardean and his wife Hannah (d. 1704) but that is where the line goes cold as there are no earlier Herberts in Ruardean despite the relative completeness of the parish registers (which go back to the 1540s). However, I have found a Thomas Herbert born in nearby Abenhall in 1640 who does not seem to have married in Abenhall or had any children baptised there so perhaps he moved to Ruardean and founded the Herbert family there. Can anyone confirm/disprove this?

Hi James,
Many thanks for you email. My Gt. Gt Grandmother was a
Hester Herbert, Daughter of John Herbert and Sarah Mason. This was
all the info I had on John Herbert. However, when I posted a message
on the FoD website message board a man called Jim Ashton contacted me
and he gave me a wealth of information about Sarah Mason's
ancestors. One point he did make make was that a lot of marriages
took place at that time in Abenhall because Ruardean did't have a
vicar. So what you say seems quite possible. The information I have
about John Herbert is that he was baptised 27/4/1788 (Ruardean), son
of William Herbert (baptised 29/9/1758) and Hannah Yemm. William and
Hannah married 12/5/1782. William was the son of William Herbert and
Margaret Wood. If you feel that this is the same John Herbert as your
ancestor, let me know and I will let you have the info on Johns
descendants if you are interested.
Jim Ashton tells me we are fifth cousins once removed (I
take his word for it). His line is Sarah Masons. When he sent a copy
of his family tree he asked me not to put it on the internet because
there are several people still alive and would I respect their
privacy. If you think that this is your family line I will contact
Jim and ask him if it all right to pass his email address on to you.
I am quite sure he would have no objection. By the way how is John
Herbert related to you? Is it possible that we might be related? Let
me know what you think.
Once again, thanks for your email. It was nice to hear from you.

All the best,

Michael

Michael
I have been researching my partner's ancestry for a couple of years now nad have been going back in all sorts of directions. It would appear that John Herbert is her 3rd great granduncle so anything that you have maybe of great use to me.
regards
David

Hi Michael,

Yes, that is my family. I sent a detailed message to your e-mail address, did you not receive it? I also know Jim Ashton, we have been in contact for quite a while now. In fact, I sent him my detailed family tree for the Herberts (with living descendants) and this may be the one he was talking about. I will gladly send a copy to you too. I have a double descent from this Herbert family because my ancestors Nehemiah Hale and Hannah Herbert were second cousins. Hannah was John and Sarah's daughter (Hester's sister) and Nehemiah was a descendant of Sarah Herbert, sister of John Herbert's father William - Sarah and William both being children of William and Margaret (Wood) Herbert.

Looking forward to hearing from you soon

James

Hello David,
Thanks for you message. Up until I posted a message on the FoD message board I had very little info about John Herbert and Sarah Mason. Since then two people have got back to me. One with masses of info on Sarah's ancestors, and another has promised to send me details of John Herbet's family . When I have all this informatoin together I will let you have it all.
John and Sarah's daughter, Hester , was my Gt. Gt. grandmother and I have details of their descendants. If this is of any interest to you let me know and I will forward you all the details that I have.
Looking forward to hearing from you.
Regards,
Michael.

Dear Jim

I note in your posting that you mention Herberts (tamar herbert etc) of Oxenhall. I just wonder in your research whether you can shed any light on a Herbert whose parentage I can't identify.

She is Jane Herbert born 10 feb 1796 who married a William Phillips also of Oxenhall in Newent in 1817.

There are no Jane Herberts from that time in Oxenhall who I can identify. The nearest is an Anne Herbert baptised 18 April 1796 to an Ann and John Herbert junior. There was a Henry Herbert as a witness who might possibly the one born 1779 to John and Nancy who are in your tree - so possibly an uncle or cousin of 'Jane'.

It seems Jane/Anne's birth/baptisms are so close as to be likely to be the same person and that she assumed the name Jane perhaps from a middle name. If you can shed any light as a result of your own herbert enquiries I would be most interested

thanks

john Martin

John

I cannot help you regarding a Jane Herbert, I have no Jane of that age in my family tree, but the Herbert family is not my specialty. Although I have 125 Herbert's in family tree, these are only the Herbert's that marry into other families, plus their siblings and parents.

I have 2 Herbert families in my family tree around that time, the children of William Herbert & Hannah Yemm; William 1782, Hannah 1785 & John 1788. Hannah nee Yemm died in 1789 and William remarried in 1802 having 6 more children but of course beyond the date you are researching.

The other family is John Herbert 1745 married Nancy Morgan 1745 at Oxenhall 1776 - he was a widower at marriage. He and Nancy had 9 children including an Ann 1796 but she married John Parsons 1797 in 1816 :

1841 Ruardean Hill / Nailbridge
John Parsons abt 1797 Dean Forest
Ann Parsons abt 1797 Dean Forest
Isaac Parsons abt 1830 Dean Forest
Thos Parsons abt 1824 Dean Forest

1851 Ruardean Hill Census East Dean
John Parsons abt 1797 East Dean
Ann Parsons abt 1796 East Dean Wife
Isaac Parsons abt 1830 East Dean Son
Elizabeth Parsons abt 1830 East Dean Daughter-in-law

John Herbert & Nancy Morgan did have a Henry born 1779, who may have been your witness, but I am sure there were lots of Henry's.

One Herbert still eludes me - Rosanna Herbert 1789, the first wife of my Great Great Great Grandfather Cornelius Marfell, they married 1811. Upon Rosanna's death in 1817 he remarried to Tamar Herbert 1792, daughter of John Herbert & Nancy Morgan.

John Herbert & Nancy Morgan's daughter Hannah 1779 married my Great Great Great Great Uncle Jonathon Marfell 1764, brother of Cornelius Marfell who married Tamar & Rosanna Herbert.

Jim Ashton

Dear Jim

many thanks for your information on Herberts and apologies for the delay in responding further. I have a few follow up questions if you don't mind? Do you have confirmed details of birth date of John Herbert (who married Nancy)? I have him as probably 1735 from parish records on this site but you mention 1745? Do you have details of his first marriage - I can't find any? Also how do you know that the Ann Herbert who married JohnParsons was the same one who was daughter of John and Nancy Herbert? Census of 1851 should indicate she was born Oxenhall but it says East Dean? If you have other evidence it would be most useful.

best wishes

JM

When you posted this on 4th July, I was actually still in America on a 17 day 9 hotel 3200 mile tour of US National Parks. One hotel was just off Temple Square in Salt Lake City, so I took the opportunity to visit the Mormon Family History Centre out of curiosity. The UK records are in the 2nd basement floor. Whilst not intending to carry out any research - my wife would not have approved !! the very eager, enthusiastic researcher who rushed to greet me was keen to offer assistance pointing out that they had far more records than available on line or in the UK. The reason I mention this is that I asked to see if the ancestors of Rosanna Herbert (mentioned in this thread) could be identified, but they could not help.

In answer to your queries, the 1735 Baptism for John Herbert does seem likely to be the one, but I cannot say positively. I do not know who John Herbert's first wife was. I cannot prove that the Ann Herbert who married John Parsons was indeed the daughter of John Herbert & Nancy Nee Morgan but the fact that the generic location East Dean on the 1851 Census for John & Ann Parsons is not significant, however two items that might help you - next door but one in 1851 was a George Herbert with wife Sophia and you will note that one witness to John Parsons & Ann Herbert 1816 marriage was a Sophia Herbert, the other being Charles Meek and next door the other way was Charles Meek :

1841 Ruardean Hill / Nailbridge
John Parsons abt 1797 Dean Forest
Ann Parsons abt 1797 Dean Forest
Isaac Parsons abt 1830 Dean Forest
Thos Parsons abt 1824 Dean Forest

1851 Census

MEEK Charles 55 Coal Agent East Dean
Mary 52 Mitchel Dean
Jane 26 East Dean
Elizabeth 20 East Dean
Eliza 17 Assistant Governess East Dean
Charles 13 Scholar East Dean
Rhoda 9 Scholar East Dean

PARSONS John 54 Coal Miner East Dean
Ann 55 East Dean
Isaac 21 Coal Miner Married East Dean
Elizabeth Daughter in Law 21 East Dean

WEBB John 33 Coal Miner East Dean
Esther 25 East Dean
Esther 5 Scholar East Dean
Miles 3 Scholar East Dean
William 1 East Dean

HERBERT George 29 Coal Miner East Dean
Sophia 27 East Dean
Susanna 5 East Dean
Tabitha 2 East Dean
Sarah Mother 62 Ruardean
Dennis Nephew 13 Coal Miner East Dean

I only answered this query as you emailed me as well. Now back to sorting the 1400 photographs and 78 video clips. I will get back to Family History in a week or so.

Jim Ashton