Forest of Dean FHT Forum - John BALDWIN, baptised Nov 1796 - base child

John BALDWIN, baptised Nov 1796 - base child (reply)

Blorenge — Mon, 17 Aug 2009 22:11:22 +0000

I know it's a little while since this thread started, but I've only just come across it, and I don't want anyone to follow the wrong family line. Thanks to Jim for his compliments, I hope I can demonstrate that I am worthy of them by proving that "my" Mary Baldwin who married Joseph Hale was without doubt the daughter of Richard and Sarah Baldwin, baptised in 1781. Richard Baldwin's will (dated 15 August 1816) mentions his daughter Mary Hale. So, whoever this other Mary Baldwin is, she was definitely not Richard and Sarah's daughter, or the mother of this John Baldwin in 1796.

John BALDWIN,1796 Ruardean - base child (reply)

slowhands — Sat, 15 Nov 2008 06:05:41 +0000

Jim

feel free to place the spanner in the works when ever :-)

'eres what I have found so far...BALDWIN & MORSE I suspect
which conflicts with JONES in the base note ...

Year: 1805
Month: Jun
Day: 16
Parents_Surname: MORSE
Child_Forenames: Eleanor
Fathers_Forenames: [not stated]
Mothers_Forenames: Elizabeth
Mothers_Surname:
Residence: St. Briavels
Occupation:
Officiating_Minister: Tho[ma]s Thomas Curate
Event: Baptism
Memoranda:
Notes:
Register_Reference: P278 IN 1/4
Page_Number: 19
Parish_Chapel: St Briavels

Year: 1822
Month: Jun
Day: 8
Grooms_Surname: BALDWIN
Grooms_Forenames: John
Grooms_Age:
Groom_Condition: Batchelor [s
Grooms_Occupation:
Grooms_Residence: Hundred of St Briavels
Grooms_Fathers_Surname:
Grooms_Fathers_Forenames:
Grooms_Fathers_Occupation:
Brides_Surname: MOSE
Brides_Forenames: Elinor
Brides_Age:
Brides_Condition: [not stated]
Brides_Occupation:
Brides_Residence: Hundred of St Briavels
Brides_Fathers_Surname:
Brides_Fathers_Forenames:
Brides_Fathers_Occupation:
Licence_or_Banns: Banns
Date_of_Banns:
Signature_or_Mark: Both mark
Witness_1: Edward And[illegible]
Witness_2: William Hulin Clark
Other_Witnesses:
Officiating_Minister: Charles D Blyth Curate
Event: Marriage
Memoranda:
Notes:
Register_Reference: P278 IN 1/10
Page_Number: 33
Parish_Chapel: St Briavels

Year: 1825
Month: Mar
Day: 13
Parents_Surname: BALDWYN
Child_Forenames: Samuel
Fathers_Forenames: John
Mothers_Forenames: Eleanor
Mothers_Surname:
Residence: Whitecroft
Occupation: Coal Miner
Officiating_Minister: David Jones Curate
Event: Baptism
Memoranda:
Notes:
Register_Reference: P245 IN 1/9
Page_Number: 22
Parish_Chapel: Parkend

1841
John Baldwin abt 1803 Bedwelty, Monmouthshire
Eleanor Baldwin abt 1806 Monmouthshire, Wales Bedwelty, Monmouthshire
Anne Baldwin abt 1833 Monmouthshire, Wales Bedwelty, Monmouthshire
Emma Baldwin abt 1830 Monmouthshire, Wales Bedwelty, Monmouthshire
Moses Baldwin abt 1839 Monmouthshire, Wales Bedwelty, Monmouthshire
Priscilla Baldwin abt 1836 Monmouthshire, Wales Bedwelty, Monmouthshire
Samuel Baldwin abt 1826 Bedwelty, Monmouthshire
Selina Baldwin abt 1841 Monmouthshire, Wales Bedwelty, Monmouthshire

1851
John Baldwin abt 1800 Ronden, Gloucestershire, England Head Bedwellty, Monmouthshire
Elleann Baldwin abt 1805 Ebbwale, Monmouthshire, Wales Wife Bedwellty, Monmouthshire
Moses Baldwin abt 1839 Bedwellty, Monmouthshire, Wales Son Bedwellty, Monmouthshire
Pricella Baldwin abt 1836 Bedwellty, Monmouthshire, Wales Daughter Bedwellty, Monmouthshire
Ann Davis abt 1833 Bedwellty, Monmouthshire, Wales Daughter Bedwellty, Monmouthshire
John Davis Ann abt 1830 Bedwellty, Monmouthshire, Wales Son-in-law Bedwellty, Monmouthshire

1861
John Baldwin abt 1796 Roudoan, Gloucestershire, England Head Bedwellty, Monmouthshire
Elenor Baldwin abt 1802 Bedwellty, Monmouthshire, Wales Wife Bedwellty, Monmouthshire

Mary BALDWIN, 1781 Ruardean (reply)

jimashton — Sat, 15 Nov 2008 05:41:37 +0000

Further to my previous reply (see below), I note from the Baldwin & Herbert Family posting that James Philips Evans agrees with me that the spouse of Mary Baldwin is Joseph Hale. I have the highest regard for James's research and if he thinks that - it's good enough for me.

Jim Ashton

John BALDWIN, baptised Nov 1796 - base child (reply)

jimashton — Sat, 15 Nov 2008 05:06:29 +0000

Hi Jan

Sorry to throw a spanner in the works, but I have another avenue for you to try - and for Slowhands to comment on.

I have Mary Baldwin baptised 4 Nov 1781, daughter of Richard Baldwin & Sarah Herbert in my family tree. She would be my 1st cousin 5 times removed. So we are related. I was not aware of her illegitimate Son John's marriage and would like to hear from you about your line.

I have Mary Baldwin as married to Joseph Hale baptised 28 Jul 1776, son of Richard Hale 1744 and Elizabeth Jones. They were married in Walford in 1805 and have 4 children.

If I am wrong and "My" Mary Baldwin married another, I will have another line to follow. However, the marriage between Joseph Hale and Mary Baldwin will still remain in my family tree even if it turns out to be another Mary Baldwin who married Joseph Hale as their son Nehemiah 1824 married Hannah Herbert 1829 who is related to me anyway. In addition Joseph Hale & Mary nee Baldwin's daughter Mary 1820 married William Sleeman and their son Thomas 14 Nov 1843 married Sarah Ann Marfell 4 Nov 1839.

I look forward to hearing more information !!

Jim Ashton

Mary BALDWIN, 1781 Ruardean (reply)

geniejan — Thu, 06 Nov 2008 05:03:16 +0000

I suspect more and more that you are correct in your birth record for Mary Baldwin, b. 1781 to Richard and wife. In the 1841 census in Breconshire, Llyswen, HO107 / 1370/20 is the family of James Badham, age 60, farmer, Mary Badham, age 60, and John Badham, age 32. Finally I have a trail to work on! Thank you so much!!!!!

Mary BALDWIN, 1781 Ruardean (reply)

geniejan — Thu, 06 Nov 2008 04:47:45 +0000

In the 1861 census in Bedwellty Parish, Monmouthshire in the same household as John Baldwin/Baldwyn and wife are his son-in-law, daughter, and 2 granddaughters along with a John Badam, age 55, widow, a cordwainer, who is listed with a birthplace of St. Marys, Breconshire. Although the birthplace for John Badam on the census records doesn't match I wonder if the name Badam and Betham are one and the same?

Thank you for the leads on Mary and John Baldwin. Have the bastardy records been microfilmed? I live on the west coast of the USA and a trip to the area is out of the question for several years.

Thank you again for the help and expertise!

Jan

Mary BALDWIN, 1781 Ruardean (reply)

slowhands — Wed, 05 Nov 2008 20:32:40 +0000

candidate

Year: 1781
Month: Nov
Day: 4
Parents_Surname: BALDWIN
Child_Forenames: Mary
Fathers_Forenames: Richard
Mothers_Forenames: Sarah
Mothers_Surname:
Residence:
Occupation:
Officiating_Minister:
Event: Baptism
Memoranda:
Notes:
Register_Reference: P275 IN 1/5
Page_Number: 65
Parish_Chapel: Ruardean

further research before these two records can be linked

Year: 1805
Month: Sep
Day: 23
Grooms_Surname: BETHAM
Grooms_Forenames: James
Grooms_Age:
Groom_Condition:
Grooms_Occupation:
Grooms_Residence:
Grooms_Fathers_Surname:
Grooms_Fathers_Forenames:
Grooms_Fathers_Occupation:
Brides_Surname: BALDWIN
Brides_Forenames: Mary
Brides_Age:
Brides_Condition:
Brides_Occupation:
Brides_Residence:
Brides_Fathers_Surname:
Brides_Fathers_Forenames:
Brides_Fathers_Occupation:
Licence_or_Banns: Banns
Date_of_Banns:
Signature_or_Mark: both marked
Witness_1: Thomas TYLER (mark)
Witness_2: Joseph HARPER
Other_Witnesses:
Officiating_Minister: J H BEESTON - minister
Event: Marriage
Memoranda:
Notes:
Register_Reference: P275 IN 1/4
Page_Number: 0
Parish_Chapel: Ruardean

Year: 1806
Month: Feb
Day: 9
Parents_Surname: BETHAMS
Child_Forenames: John
Fathers_Forenames: James
Mothers_Forenames: Mary
Mothers_Surname:
Residence:
Occupation:
Officiating_Minister:
Event: Baptism
Memoranda:
Notes:
Register_Reference: P275 IN 1/6
Page_Number: 54
Parish_Chapel: Ruardean

Base child - who is the daddy? (reply)

slowhands — Wed, 05 Nov 2008 20:26:42 +0000

For the illegitimate children there are also bastardy examinations, bastardy bonds (executed by the putative father), and bastardy orders. These documents are of particular value when the identity of the natural father is not indicated in other sources such as the parish registers.

The Gloucestershire Records Office holds some of these Parish records.

And of course not all base children had bonds/orders etc....

< to be continued>

John BALDWIN, baptised Nov 1796 - base child

geniejan — Wed, 05 Nov 2008 19:51:36 +0000

I descend from John BALDWIN, baptised 1796 in Ruardean, Gloucestershire. In the baptismal record John is listed as the base child of Mary BALDWIN. John married an Ebbw Vale woman, Elenor JONES, probably before 1826 and in the 1841, 1851 and 1861 census records is living in Bedwellty Parish, Monmouth. He lived for over 15 years in the village of Victoria and died in that village in 1866. John's occupation is listed as a collier in census records. I have not yet been able to locate a marriage record for John and Elenor. I am wondering if any one is familiar with researching illegitimate children born before 1800 and could suggest what would be the best record source to try and find out more about the mother, Mary BALDWIN, and the probable father for John BALDWIN? I also would love to find out who Mary BALDWIN's parents are and what happened to Mary BALDWIN!

Thank you,
Jan, in Oregon (the west coast of the USA)