Forest of Dean FHT Forum - Thomas JONES first wife Eliza Walker c1854-c1881

Thomas JONES first wife Eliza Walker c1854-c1881 (reply)

unknown — Mon, 05 Dec 2011 03:48:17 +0000

Eliza Walker

born about 1854 Burslem, Stoke on Trent, Staffordshire

1851 Census age 7, scholar

1861 Census age 17, servant

1865, 30 Dec, married Thomas Jones at The Register Office, Wolstanton, Stoke on Trent, Staffordshire

1865 living at Hope Street, Tunstall, Stoke on Trent.

1868, 27 May, had first child Sarah at Llanover Upper, Blaenavon, Wales

1871 Census age 26, wife of Thomas Jones living with family at 23 Windmill St. Hanley, Stoke on Trent

1872, 20 Jan, had second child Elizabeth at 23 Windmill St. Hanley, Stoke on Trent

1881 census no longer at that address 23 Windmill St.

The story is Eliza Walker died about or after 1881

However we have got nowhere finding records of her death e.g.
1882 4Q Eliza Jones age 62 v6B 100 = not her
1886 Elizabeth Jones age 30 6B 64 = not her
etc.
Perhaps they had moved away from Wolstanton district before she died

N.B. In 1911 census Thomas Jones stated he had 4 children born but 2 had died

Thomas JONES second wife Emma Holmes (nee SUDGEN) (reply)

m p griffiths — Sun, 04 Dec 2011 17:47:33 +0000

1881, Census, Keighley, Yorkshire
16 Hope Place

Priscilla SUGDEN - Widow - age 60 - born Yorkshire, Bingley
Mary J - - 19 - Alpaca Keeler
Sarah - 18 - Worsted Spinner
William H - 17 - Iron Borer
Emma HOLMES - 29 - daughter - Worsted Keeler, born Yorkshire, Bingley
William W HOLMES - Grandson - 3

1891 Census, Keighley, Yorkshire
7 Chandos Street

HOLMES

Joseph - 43 - Tool fitter mechanic, born Keighley
Emma - 38
William W - 13 - Worsted Doffer

---

Looking at the 1901 census, for Keighley, Yorkshire, East Edward
James Street

HOLMES

Joseph - 53
Emma - 49
Clifford - 9
Herman H - 1

and searching on the 1911 census.co.uk

for an Emma JONES c1852 born Yorkshire with HOLMES in the family

we have

HOLMES

Clifford Stanley HOLMES - 1892 - age 19 - Yorkshire West Riding
Hermann Hodgson HOLMES - 1900- age 11
Sarah Ellen HOLMES - 1882 age 29
William Wallace HOLMES - 1878 age 33

the harder part is finding this family via Ancestry 1911 census (last one I checked - typical)

1911 Census, West Riding, Keighley, District 22
Image 260 of 613
No. of Schedule 129

William Wallace HOLMES
229 Top Westgate
Keighley
Yorkshire
(3 rooms)

William Wallace HOLMES, married 12 years, Moulders Labourer - Gas & Bil? Engine Manufacturer, all born Keighley, Yorkshire
Sarah Ellen HOLMES - 29
Emma JONES - age 59- married 37 years, 6 children born alive, 2 alive, 4 dead
Clifford Stanley HOLMES - 19 - Single, Hawker for Fruiter
Herman Hodgson HOLMES - 11 - born Silsden, Yorkshire

---

So in 1911, Emma JONES - HOLMES - nee SUDGEN was living with her son in Keighley, Yorkshire, whilst husband Thomas JONES was working away in Middlesborough

Thomas JONES second wife Emma Holmes (reply)

unknown — Sun, 04 Dec 2011 05:03:32 +0000

The Keighley Emma would explain more why Thomas could be in a boarding house in Middleboro.
I just found 1911 census was conducted on Sunday evening of 2nd April. But who knows why Thomas was boarding.

Using the free www.freebmd.org.uk I just found a death Dec 1931 of Jones Emma age 78 in Keighley v 9a 220
And that does fit the dob c1852 of the lady he married.

To get any further I guess I've got to pay the GRO for a bunch of death certificates. Does anyone know of any cheaper way of finding who are relatives of a deceased ?

Thomas JONES second wife Emma Holmes (reply)

m p griffiths — Sat, 03 Dec 2011 17:46:24 +0000

?There is an Emma JONES age 59 - c1852 (in Keighley - Yorkshire West Riding) - again on 1911 Census.co.uk.

This is the District where they married in 1908

Thomas JONES second wife Emma Holmes (reply)

unknown — Sat, 03 Dec 2011 16:19:51 +0000

Thomas Jones second wife, married 1908, was Emma Holmes
This death fits her date of birth of c1852, and their location in 1911

Deaths Dec 1918
Jones Emma age 60 Middlesbro 9d 1279

Thomas JONES born Coleford 1843-46, son of Henry, collier (reply)

unknown — Sat, 03 Dec 2011 15:32:14 +0000

1911 census - District 535, Sub 1, No. 23

Boarding House Keeper, Sarah McGrail, widow,
16 Chester St., Cargo Fleet, North Ormesby, Middlesborough

Boarders: only four men (no women) including:

Thomas Jones. Age 66. Married. Total children born 4, Children still living 2, Children who have died 2
Labourer, Dry Dock workman. Born Coleford Gloucestershire.

Thomas JONES born Coleford 1843-46, son of Henry, collier (reply)

m p griffiths — Sat, 03 Dec 2011 10:11:04 +0000

? Searching the 1911 UK census on line - for a Thomas JONES - c1845 - born Coleford, Gloucestershire (I've run out of credits to access the full information)

there seems to be

a Thomas JONES c1845, born Coleford, Gloucester - age 66, Middlesborough, Yorkshire, North Riding

trying to call this up on Ancestry is proving a bit more of a challenge!

Ancestry Death Index

Thomas JONES

birth: about 1844

death: A/M/J Qtr 1918

age 74

Middlesborough

Yorkshire North Riding

Volume: 9d

Page: 718

Thomas JONES born Coleford 1843-46, son of Henry, collier (reply)

unknown — Sat, 03 Dec 2011 04:42:22 +0000

Thomas JONES in 1865, age 20, married 30 December to Eliza Walker, at The Register Office, Wolstanton, Stoke on Trent, Staffordshire.
1865 occupation Puddler [stirs furnace to make wrought iron], living at Hope Street, Tunstall, Stoke on Trent, Staffordshire.
1868 When first child Sarah was born he was living at 3 Ellick Street, Llanover Upper, presumably working in the iron works in Blaenavon, Wales.
1871 age 27, Census, married head living at 23 Windmill Street, Hanley, Stoke on Trent. Occupation Forgeman
1872 second child Elizabeth was born. The birth was registered by Thomas, who marked X. But they fell on hard times and it seem mother became ill.
Sal's story is she and little sister walked up to Yorkshire to find work.
Documents show that in 1881 Bradford authorities took them in as vagrants and daughter Sal was placed at Laurel Bank Home for Orphaned and Deserted Girls. We don't know where Elizabeth was placed.
Sal's story is that after their mother died their father followed them.
In the 1891 Census they are reunited at 86 Cross Roads, Nr Haworth, West Yorkshire: Thomas Jones age 48, head, Bricklayers Labourer. Ann, Wife[?] age 58, born Coventry, Warwickshire. Sarah Ann Daughter 22 Worsted Winder, born Monmouthshire. Elizabeth Daughter 19 Worsted Twister, born Hanley, Staffordshire.
1891 At Sarah's wedding occ. Thomas stated occupation stonemason's labourer.
1908 age 62, September 21st, Marriage,
Thomas Jones, widower, labourer, of 7 Green Street, father Henry Jones (deceased), collier, and
Emma Holmes, age 56, widow, housekeeper, of 7 Green Street, father William Sugden (deceased), fitter.
Thomas marked, Emma signed, witnesses were Walter A. Binns and Sarah A. Binns.
Certificate MXB 301160 at Keighley Parish Church.
We don’t know what happened to him after 1908.
Relatives can get more information about his daughters at http://www.thebinnsfamily.org.uk/

Caroline JONES - Mother's maiden name TREEHURN (reply)

jimashton — Fri, 02 Dec 2011 18:04:36 +0000

Thank you very much.

I am fairly good with computers including Adobe Photoshop, so not completely thick, but "Advanced Search" defeats me. I have in the past asked if an idiot's guide could be published, but the result didn't help me !!

Jim Ashton

Caroline JONES - Mother's maiden name TREEHURN (reply)

m p griffiths — Fri, 02 Dec 2011 17:38:56 +0000

Using the Advance Search (Dymock)

Henry & Ann JONES - address Broomsberrow Heath - appear to have two children baptised

Mary Ann - 9 June 1836
Caroline - 10 March 1839 (Memoranda: Posthumous) ? parent died

If you look at Gloucestershire BDM

Caroline JONES - mother's maiden name TREEHURN - Redmarley - 1839

Thomas JONES/(mother HUGHES) 1851 Census Wales (reply)

jimashton — Fri, 02 Dec 2011 17:12:30 +0000

Thank you M P Griffiths

I have an Ann Treherne 1st cousin 4 times removed baptised 9 Jan 1812 Dymock in my family tree, daughter of one of my 4 times Great Uncle's George Treherne 1774 and Lucy Williams 1778. I have shown her as married to Henry Jones :

Year: 1834
Month: Jul
Day: 21
Grooms_Surname: JONES
Grooms_Forenames: Henry
Grooms_Age:
Groom_Condition: Bachelor
Grooms_Occupation:
Grooms_Residence: Dymock
Grooms_Fathers_Surname:
Grooms_Fathers_Forenames:
Grooms_Fathers_Occupation:
Brides_Surname: TREHERN
Brides_Forenames: Ann
Brides_Age:
Brides_Condition: Spinster
Brides_Occupation:
Brides_Residence: Dymock
Brides_Fathers_Surname:
Brides_Fathers_Forenames:
Brides_Fathers_Occupation:
Licence_or_Banns: Banns
Date_of_Banns:
Signature_or_Mark: Both mark
Witness_1: Mark of Joseph Harbon
Witness_2: Mark of Susan Trehern
Other_Witnesses:
Officiating_Minister: J Simons
Event: Marriage
Memoranda:
Notes:
Register_Reference: P125 IN 1/13
Page_Number: 63
Parish_Chapel: Dymock

I had picked up the 1851 Census entry (included in this posting) and "assumed" the family including Thomas 1843 was the family of "my" Henry Jones and Ann Treherne. However, the detail you have shown in this posting proves to me fairly conclusively that the 1832 marriage with Ann Hughes is the correct one for this family.

Always striving for accuracy, I have deleted those children and the census data from my Family Tree. I now obviously have a question - what happened to my Henry Jones and Ann Treherne ?

Jim Ashton

Thomas JONES/(mother HUGHES) 1851 Census Wales (reply)

m p griffiths — Fri, 02 Dec 2011 16:35:28 +0000

Going back another generation, and looking how Henry JONES's birth date got ' a bit wild' - - and Henry saying he was born in Newland and Coleford.... we have

FOD records

Baptism at NEWLAND - 18 April 1808

Henry JONES, parents John & Ann - residence : Colford
Memoranda: at Coleford Chapel

then also

Baptism at COLEFORD - 24 APRIL 1808

Henry JONES - parents John & Ann

-----

Back to the neighbours and witnesses at the wedding of Henry JONES to Ann HUGHES at St Briavels in 1832

Previous to that: on FOD records at Abenhall - 15 October 1827

James ROBERTS - Bachelor, Hundred of St Briavels
married

Sarah JONES - Spinster, Hundred of St Briavels

witnesses: John & Elizabeth YEARSLEY - (memoranda - with consent of friends)

1841 census - almost next door to Henry JONES

ROBERTS

James - 30 - Quarryman (all born in County)
Sarah - 30 (1861 census, Coalway Road, age 53, born Glos.Coleford)
Thomas - 13
George - 10
Lewis - 7
George JONES - 20

----

Looking at the Gloucestershire BDM : Maria CRITCHLEY - born in 1838 - mother's maiden name: ROBERTS/JONES

---

1851 Census, Newland Scowles

CRITCHLEY

Charles - 40 - born Bristol
Elizabeth - 51 - born Newland
Jane - 19, James 17, Maria 12, Bella 10, Mary 7.

(Charles CRITCHLEY married Elizabeth JONES (Wid) - 31 July 1830 - Newland)

These neighbours are either related - or just have very common surnames

Thomas JONES/(mother HUGHES) 1851 Census Wales (reply)

unknown — Fri, 02 Dec 2011 14:38:48 +0000

Bless you MP, our family has been yearning for and seeking information for decades, we are SO relieved.

Thomas JONES/(mother HUGHES) 1851 Census Wales (reply)

m p griffiths — Fri, 02 Dec 2011 08:39:01 +0000

Here they are in Panteague, Monmouthshire 1851 census (WALES)
District 5a
Page 42

Henry JONES - 39 - Iron Miner - born Forest of Dean, Glos
Ann JONES - 40 - all born Coleford
Mary Ann JONES - 14
George JONES - 10
Thomas JONES - 8
Sarah Ann JONES - 5 - born Panteague
Margaret JONES - 1 - born Panteague

-----

1861 Census, Monmouthshire (WALES)
Trevethin
District 3

3 Rosemary Lane

JONES

Henry - 54, Miner, born Newland
Ann - 50 - born Coleford
Mary Ann - 20 - born Coleford
George - 19 - Miner, born Coleford
Thomas - 17 - Miner, born Coleford
Sarah - 14 - born Coleford
Margaret - 11 - born Panteague, Monmouthshire

-----

1871 Census, Monmouthshire, Trevethin (WALES)

Nest? Place

JONES

Henry - 74, born Coleford - Labourer
Ann - 64
George - 28
Margaret - 21 - born Trevethin, Mon
Thomas BEVAN, age 30, Lodger, born Lancester, Liverpool

-----

1881 Census, Monmoutshire, Trevethin (WALES)

George Street

Henry JONES - 83, labourer, born Glos. Coleford
Ann JONES - 74, born Coleford
George JONES - 38, unmarried son, born Glos. Coleford
+ a couple of lodgers

-----

Gloucestershire BDM

http://ww3.gloucestershire.gov.uk/bmd/

Two births of JONES - mother maiden name HUGHES

George JONES - 1840 (Monmouth - Coleford)

Thomas JONES - 1843 - (Monmouth - Coleford)

no more births for JONES - mother's maiden name HUGHES for Coleford after 1843.

---

By using the Advance Search (so far) children of Henry (Coal Miner) & Anne JONE (Coalway Lane End)

Catherine - 7 November 1832
Mary Anne - 9 June 1836, - Bromsberrow Heath

---

FOD records

Marriage at St Briavels - 2 June 1832

Henry JONES, Bachelor, Hundred of St Briavels

married

Ann HUGHES, Hundred of St Briavels

Mark of James ROBERTS and Elizabeth CRUTCHLY

Officiating Minster: Yate FOSBROKE (Curate)

---

If you look again at the 1841 census

Gloucestershire Newland, Hundred of St Briavels

Coalway - we have the CRUTCHLEY family including Elizabeth age 35 & the other witness James ROBERTS age 30 next door to them.

and living with Henry JONES is an Eliza HUGHES age 11 . the // lines on the 1841 census indicate end of that household.

FOD records

Baptism at Coleford 24 January 1830

Eliza HUGHES, mother Ann (single woman)

Thomas JONES born Coleford 1843-46, son of Henry, collier

unknown — Fri, 02 Dec 2011 05:57:42 +0000

Does anybody know his family? Thomas JONES said he was born in Coleford and that his father Henry JONES was a coalminer. Thomas gave various births from 1843 to 1846.
Said he ran away to sea at age 15 [c1859] which explains why searching the 1861 census proves fruitless.

Does anyone know more about the following family?

1841 census, Piece 365/3, folio 34, p3, Coleford, Coalway,

Henry JONES, age 30, Collier. Born in this County [c1811]
Ann JONES, age 30, –- Born in this County [c1811]
Catherine JONES, age 4, –- . Born in this County [c1836]
M. Ann JONES, age 3, –- . Born in this County [c1837]
George JONES, age 1, –- . Born in this County [c1840]

Unfortunately this family were no longer in this area in the 1851 census and I can’t find them anywhere else.
Does anyone know where they went in 1851?
If I could find them in the1851 census it would show if Thomas, age 5-8, was really of this family

We only have Thomas' documents after 1865 when he got married age 20 in Stoke on Trent and was working in the iron mills.

This photo is him aged c45