Forest of Dean FHT Forum - Thomas HAWKINS and Mary ROBERTS

Thomas HAWKINS and Mary ROBERTS (reply)

isherwop — Sun, 31 May 2009 22:45:44 +0000

Thanks Slowhands,

Any idea why we cannot fine him in the 1851 census

Thomas HAWKINS and Mary ROBERTS (reply)

jimashton — Fri, 01 May 2009 05:34:12 +0000

Thank you

From this I can determine that I have the right marriage, but the wrong children. The parents of "My" Mary Ann Roberts who married Thomas Hawkins were William Roberts baptised 4 Aug 1768 & Hannah Williams, married 20 October 1790 Newland.

1841 Census
William Roberts 73 Limeburner
Hannah 74
John Roberts 6

I do not know who John is, he does not appear to be the son of their two surviving males Aaron & Theophilus.

Further proof is William's Will :

WILL OF WILLIAM ROBERTS 1846

This is the Last Will and Testament of me William Roberts of the Hawthorns in the Township of East Dean in the County of Gloucester Collier as Followeth ………… (that is to say) ………………..
I give devise and bequeath all my Messuage Houses, Lands, and Stone quarries, and Lime=Kiln, unto my Wife Hannah Roberts – for and during her natural Life, and at her decease I give devise and bequeath the same unto my Son Theophilus Roberts all Except what is herein after expressed to him his Heirs and assigns that is to say I give devise and bequeath my Garden on the North side of the House my son Theophilus Roberts now occupy unto my daughter Sarah Phillips to her and her Heirs and Assigns at my Wife’s decease subjected to the following Legacies = that is I give devise and bequeath the sum of Five pounds unto John Roberts Perkins at my =Wife’s decease, Also I give devise and bequeath the sum of Fifteen Pounds in one year after my Wife’s decease to be Paid out of my Messuage Houses Lands and the Stone quarries, unto my three daughters in the following Installments that is Five Pound the first year unto my daughter Betty Hamlinton, Five Pounds Five pounds in two years unto my daughter Mary Ann Hawkins, and the remain sum of Five pounds unto my daughter Jemmima Martin in three years after my Wife’s decease Also I give and bequeath unto my son Aaron Roberts the sum of one shilling of good and Lawful Money to be paid to him at my decease Lastly I nominate and apppoint my Wife = Hannah Roberts and my son Theophilus Roberts to be my sole Executors of this my Last Will and Testament In Witness hereof I have set my hand this the Eight day of December one Thousand Eight Hundred and Forty Six

The mark X of William Roberts

I note from the 1841 Census from slowhands, the actual children for my Hawkins/Roberts family.

Jim

Thomas HAWKINS and Mary ROBERTS (reply)

isherwop — Fri, 01 May 2009 00:09:36 +0000

Dear Jim, I have some doubts that your ancestors Thomas and Mary Ann Hawkins and mine are the same people. The Mary and Thomas Hawkins who had two children Elizabeth and Caroline in 1822 were registered in Coleford. Furthermore this Thomas was a mason whereas mine always worked in coal. My Thomas could have changed occupations but there is a record of a Mary Anne Hawkins born in 1817 in the parish of Coleford to Thomas and Mary Ann Hawkins where once again Thomas is a mason. As Mary Roberts and Thomas Hawkins were not married until 1822 this strongly suggests that Thomas the Mason was not the same person as Thomas the Collier. In 1823 Thomas the collier and Mary Hawkins had a daughter Arabella registered not in Coleford but in Christchurch Parish. She is definitely the daughter of our ancestor. Hope this is not too confusing but I would be interested to know what you think.

FoD Coal Mining - Gale (reply)

slowhands — Thu, 30 Apr 2009 23:55:54 +0000

The Free Miners are men born within the hundred of St. Briavels, who have worked underground for a year and a day; and their chief right consists in the power to demand of the Royal gaveller, who has the control of the mineral property in the Forest, a "gale". This is in effect authority to sink a mine, the miner having a right to choose the spot, provided it does not interfere with any other works.

Thomas HAWKINS - Coal Mining Occupations (reply)

isherwop — Thu, 30 Apr 2009 22:52:16 +0000

Thanks Slowhands, I feel sure his mine would have been very small. Please can youo tell me what you mean by Gale

Thomas HAWKINS and Mary ROBERTS (reply)

slowhands — Thu, 30 Apr 2009 20:19:42 +0000

Year: 1798 ??
Month: Feb
Day: 25
Parents_Surname: HAWKINS
Child_Forenames: Thomas
Fathers_Forenames: Thomas
Mothers_Forenames: Anne
Mothers_Surname:
Residence: Whitecliff
Occupation:
Officiating_Minister:
Event: Baptism
Memoranda:
Notes: Any abbreviated forenames have been expanded to the full name
Register_Reference: P227 IN 1/4
Page_Number: 853
Parish_Chapel: Newland

Year: 1822
Month: Jul
Day: 29
Grooms_Surname: HAWKINS
Grooms_Forenames: Thomas
Grooms_Age: [not stated]
Groom_Condition: Batchelor
Grooms_Occupation: [not stated]
Grooms_Residence: extraparochially
Grooms_Fathers_Surname:
Grooms_Fathers_Forenames:
Grooms_Fathers_Occupation:
Brides_Surname: ROBERTS
Brides_Forenames: Mary
Brides_Age: [not stated]
Brides_Condition: Spinster
Brides_Occupation: [not stated]
Brides_Residence: extraparochially
Brides_Fathers_Surname:
Brides_Fathers_Forenames:
Brides_Fathers_Occupation:
Licence_or_Banns: Banns
Date_of_Banns:
Signature_or_Mark: Both sign
Witness_1: Mark of Elizabeth Evans
Witness_2: Thomas Jones Powell
Other_Witnesses:
Officiating_Minister: T. D. Fosbroke Min[iste]r
Event: Marriage
Memoranda:
Notes:
Register_Reference: AO19/6
Page_Number: 39
Parish_Chapel: Walford

Year: 1823
Month: Nov
Day: 23
Parents_Surname: HAWKINS
Child_Forenames: Arabella
Fathers_Forenames: Thomas
Mothers_Forenames: Mary
Mothers_Surname:
Residence: Lane End
Occupation: Collier
Officiating_Minister: G. Ridout Off[iciatin]g. Min[ister].
Event: Baptism
Memoranda:
Notes:
Register_Reference: P82 IN 1/1
Page_Number: 33
Parish_Chapel: Christchurch

1841 Coleford Meend
Thomas Hawkins abt 1801 Gloucestershire, England Dean Forest, Gloucestershire Coalminer
Mary Hawkins abt 1801 Gloucestershire, England Dean Forest, Gloucestershire
Arrabella Hawkins abt 1826 Gloucestershire, England Dean Forest, Gloucestershire
Ellen Hawkins abt 1833 Gloucestershire, England Dean Forest, Gloucestershire
Emma Hawkins abt 1839 Gloucestershire, England Dean Forest, Gloucestershire
Henry Hawkins abt 1835 Gloucestershire, England Dean Forest, Gloucestershire
Nathaniel Hawkins abt 1828 Gloucestershire, England Dean Forest, Gloucestershire
Thomas Hawkins abt 1826 Gloucestershire, England Dean Forest, Gloucestershire

1851 ?

Year: 1857
Month: Aug
Day: 18
Grooms_Surname: HAWKINS
Grooms_Forenames: Thomas
Grooms_Age: 58
Groom_Condition: Widower
Grooms_Occupation: Coal Merchant
Grooms_Residence: Newland Gloucester
Grooms_Fathers_Surname: Hawkins
Grooms_Fathers_Forenames: Thomas
Grooms_Fathers_Occupation: Coal Merchant
Brides_Surname: LEWTON
Brides_Forenames: Mary
Brides_Age: 46
Brides_Condition: Spinster
Brides_Occupation: [Not Stated]
Brides_Residence: Ross
Brides_Fathers_Surname: Lewton
Brides_Fathers_Forenames: Thomas
Brides_Fathers_Occupation: Clothier
Licence_or_Banns: Licence
Date_of_Banns:
Signature_or_Mark: Both sign
Witness_1: Joseph Dawson
Witness_2: Elizabeth Dawson
Other_Witnesses:
Officiating_Minister: Thomas West [Curate]
Event: Marriage
Memoranda:
Notes:
Register_Reference: AG 39/11
Page_Number: 207
Parish_Chapel: Ross on Wye

1861
Thomas Hawkins abt 1798 Newland, Gloucestershire, England Head Newland, Gloucestershire Coal Prop
Mary Hawkins abt 1812 Cambridgeshire, Gloucestershire, England Wife Newland, Gloucestershire

Year: 1868
Month: Dec
Day: 3
Surname: HAWKINS
Forenames: Thomas
Residence:
Age_at_death: 71
Officiating_Minister:
Event: Burial
Cause_of_death:
Memoranda: died 26 Nov
Notes: Any abbreviated forenames have been expanded to the full name
Register_Reference: D5533 1/1
Page_No: 115
Parish_Chapel: Coleford Congregational

Thomas HAWKINS and Mary ROBERTS (reply)

llangrove — Thu, 30 Apr 2009 14:06:03 +0000

O.K. thanks! I have a Thomas Hawkins married to Elizabeth Stephens with nine children, including a Thomas, who was baptised in 1797 at Newland. I've never been able to confirm any other info about him.

Thomas HAWKINS and Mary ROBERTS (reply)

isherwop — Thu, 30 Apr 2009 09:45:56 +0000

I have not attempted to go back further yet but there is nothing obvious at this stage. I do know from daughter Ellen's birth certificate which I obtained from the National Archives that his wife Mary ROBERTS father was William ROBERTS a lime burner from Drybrook

Thomas HAWKINS and Mary ROBERTS (reply)

jimashton — Thu, 30 Apr 2009 05:25:09 +0000

Mary Ann Roberts baptised 13 Jan 1799, who married Thomas Hawkins 29 July 1822 Walford, would have been my 3rd cousin 4 times removed, I am aware of their daughters Caroline & Elizabeth both baptised 24th April 1824 at Coleford, but have not followed this family further. If you are descended from Thomas Hawkins & Mary Ann nee Roberts, then we too are related and would like to hear from you.

Going back 3 generations from Mary Ann Roberts 1799, you get to William Roberts 1714 & Mary Brain 1716. This Mary Brain had a brother James 1714 who married Mary Goode and their daughter Mary Brain 1738, became my 4 times great grandmother, when she married Richard Marfell 1734.

It would be interesting to hear from you via my email link. Please do not be put off by a lack of response, I am off to China on Sunday and will not be back for a few weeks.

Jim

Thomas HAWKINS and Mary ROBERTS (reply)

llangrove — Thu, 30 Apr 2009 04:03:11 +0000

Re: "I have only a few loose ends to tie up befor I complete the research into the family of Thomas HAWKINS and his wife Mary ROBERTS married 1822 and living most of their lives at Lane End neat Coleford. "

Do you know who was this Thomas HAWKINS' father? I've been looking for a "T.H.", brother to James and Richard, et al, from the same area. Thanks!

Thomas HAWKINS - Coal Mining Occupations (reply)

slowhands — Wed, 29 Apr 2009 21:39:33 +0000

coal miner, collier, coal merchant, collier master and a coal proprietor.

Looks like you have a progression from cutting/digging coal through to owning his own "mine" - now in the the Forest the Mines / Gales may have been a very small scale operation, perhaps single handed or several men, rather than hundreds.

Thomas HAWKINS - Coal Mining Occupations

isherwop — Wed, 29 Apr 2009 10:45:03 +0000

I have only a few loose ends to tie up befor I complete the research into the family of Thomas HAWKINS and his wife Mary ROBERTS married 1822 and living most of their lives at Lane End neat Coleford. Thomas worked in the coal mining all his life and had a variety of occupations including coal miner, collier, coal merchant, collier master and finally in 1861 a coal proprietor.

Can anyone tell me what a collier master was? Also did a coal proprietor simply trade in coal or does this term imply an interest in a mine or perhaps there is some ambiguity.

Any help much appreciated